[hackerspaces] Pirating Linux

[Yvan Janssens]

Hello,

Today I discovered that the major ISP over here uses GPL'ed software in their set top boxes, without even putting a GPL notice in the box (like most TV manufacturers do nowadays). I phoned their customer service, and they "don't know" that the device runs linux (it runs "proprietary polish software"), and know nothing about GPL notices.

My questions are now:

• Can GPL software be pirated? 
• If yes, is this a form of OSS "piracy"?
• How do I get them to release the source code?

Where should I start to find a copy of the source code - the telco, or further? The device uses a Broadcom SoC with 256MB RAM and 4MB boot ROM (looks like any other set top box to me).

Sincerely,

Yvan Janssens

--

|_|0|_|   Yvan Janssens
|_|_|0|   
|0|0|0|   

[Matt Joyce]

The broadcom SOCs tend NOT to be open source. While linux the kernel
and probably their wrt ripoff os is likely covered by the GPL or some
similar license... the broadcoms require proprietary binaries to
operate.

Thus lack of general support existing in openwrt or dd-wrt.

This likely could have caused them some confusion.

Fonera's 2.0n models for instance are broadcom... and they release a
fully buildable openwrty derivative. But they cannot release source
for working with the broadcom SOC.

Such is life.

Also this could be a point of confusion for the manufacturer. And in
defense of your cable company... they probably literally don't know
it's linux under the hood. They are just white labeling and reselling
another vendors product.

Ignorance may not be an excuse but it's sometimes hard to catch things
like this.

-Matt

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Yvan Janssens <i...@yvanj.me> wrote:
> It's this one:
> http://www.adbglobal.com/products/cable/cable-europe/adb-5723cx.html , but
> rebranded.
>
> Apparently they do offer GPL
> code: http://www.adbglobal.com/medias/files/support_files/how%20to%20receive%20the%20code.png
>
> Will mail them now, thanks ;-).
>
> The only thing I still have my doubts on, is the packaging. The package
> should contain a GPL notice, and instructions on how and where to find the
> source code.
>
> Yvan
>
>
> 2012/4/3 Stef <ste...@gmail.com>
>>
>> The point of having an opensource *license* is that companies have to
>> accept it, if they dont they are indeed pirating open source, even if
>> that sounds a bit silly at first glance.
>>
>> It is most likely not something your ISP has much influence on, even
>> if they want to cooperate with you to resolve this issue. You should
>> contact the set top box manufacturer i guess.
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Stef

>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Discuss mailing list
>> > Dis...@lists.hackerspaces.org
>> > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 1984 was not meant as a manual.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Dis...@lists.hackerspaces.org
>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

>
>
>
>
> --
>
> |_|0|_| Yvan Janssens
> |_|_|0|
> |0|0|0|
>
>
>

> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Dis...@lists.hackerspaces.org
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
Dis...@lists.hackerspaces.org
http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

[Yvan Janssens]

I'm just thinking over here:

Is it possible to retreive the GPL part from the manufacturer, and extract the required binaries out of the device, to use them on the same device?

Yvan

2012/4/3 Matt Joyce <ma...@nycresistor.com>

[John de Largentaye]

"Pirating" Linux (violating the GPL license) is a problem. Some prior art:

- the TiVo Digital Video Recorder (DVR) device uses Linux at its core.
That doesn't mean you can hack the code. (look up "tivoisation")
- The whole openwrt project started after a Linksys released the
source code of their Linux-based WRT54G router in 2002. There was some
drama when a company tried to make a proprietary derivative
withholding sourcecode.
- My favorite ISP from my former country, Free, revolutionized the ISP
business by being (among?) the first to provide triple-play: TV, Phone
and Internet via a set-top-box based on Linux, the Freebox. They do
tivoisation too, and had some run-ins with the FSF-EU because they
refused to release source code, claiming a) it was unmodified so you
could get it from the original source and b) you couldn't modify your
Freebox anyhow. They since provide patches at
http://floss.freebox.fr/, though you still can't modify the Freebox.

The whole basic argument of the FSF's controversial copyright
assignement policy is to strengthen their position when somebody
violates the GPL.

In Germany, Harald Welte has been having some success fighting these
pirates with http://gpl-violations.org/

HTH,
John

[John de Largentaye]

Sometimes yes. That's how many Android mods get started.

[Angus Gratton]

On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 00:47:09 +0200
Yvan Janssens <i...@yvanj.me> wrote:
> The only thing I still have my doubts on, is the packaging. The package
> should contain a GPL notice, and instructions on how and where to find the
> source code.

Hi Yvan,

It's good to see you found the source. You're totally right about the
requirement for a GPL notice, and either an offer for source or the
actual source in the box.

It's a good sign that they're releasing code, though. If they are this
switched on, then it should be possible to get onto someone useful once
you get past frontline support[1].

Gpl-violations, as mentioned, is a great resource for education
on this. Their Vendor FAQ in particular is concise, to the point,
something you can show to to a vendor:
http://gpl-violations.org/faq/vendor-faq.html

(legal@gpl-violations mailing list also has some clueful people on it,
if things get more complex.)

If you don't get through to anyone, and the product contains busybox
(most of these kind of devices do), then you can contact the Software
Freedom Conservancy and see if they are prepared to make contact on
behalf of the Busybox copyright holders: http://busybox.net/license.html

(Not necessarily to make a threat, but it's more likely to get attention
of someone useful when it's lawyers-on-behalf rather than a member of
the public.)

Finally, this is not directly relevant here, but there's a really good
post by Brad Kuhn about reporting GPL violations (his writings have
changed my thinking about the matter, substantially.)
http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2009/11/08/gpl-enforcement.html

Hth.

Angus

[1] (Anecdote) A while ago I got very angry at a major telco here in
australia violating GPL. During one of my frequent phone conversations
with clueless tech support I got "look mate, noone calls up Microsoft
and just asks for the source code to Windows." But eventually I got onto
someone with a clue.

[Yvan Janssens]

First of all, the contact details to find the source are not reachable: if you email to the specified address, you'll get a reply from their mailserver (not GMails as it should be in my case) stating that the address doesn't exist. Apparently they route the mail internally to another domain, and the Exchange (yups, they provide full version number/application name/DNS and IP) rejects the mail because the address doesn't exist.

And to answer your question about busybox: that's the reason why I know it runs linux:

http://i39.tinypic.com/14ditfn.jpg

I immediately spotted that message on the debug console, and a few lines below it, you'll get a reference to a read only filesystem in which they're trying to delete a kernel module.

The device has 3 serial ports, and this is only one of them (this one had the tempting marks "UART", and included pin headers specially for me).

And about violating the licenses itself: I only want to do something useful with my device: it's completely locked, drains power for years without anyone actually knowing what it does, and has awkward policies on your recordings. Also, the telco uses a CAM to decrypt the DVB-C signal, but you can only use these devices (technically) to decode it. The device drains a whopping 468kWh a year (for that money I'd rather mine bitcoin ;-) ), and nobody actually knows why.

Observant readers already know whech Belgian telco I mean - asking €100 for an "unlimited" 100Mbit line on which they traffic shape and block access to thepiratebay.org through DNS blocking ;-). And the people just eat it out of their hands.

Yvan

2012/4/3 Angus Gratton <g...@projectgus.com>

On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 01:15:46 +0200
Yvan Janssens <i...@yvanj.me> wrote:
> Is it possible to retreive the GPL part from the manufacturer, and extract
> the required binaries out of the device, to use them on the same device?

The catch is that, even though this happens all the time (especially
for Android as pointed out), this is usually not permitted by the
licensing agreement on the device, so if you distribute the binary parts
you're technically pirating yourself.[1]

There are a few exceptions, for instance in Android-land Google
distribute the OpenGL driver binaries for the Nexus S with a
non-commercial redistribution clause[2], or (I believe) the Adreno GPU
drivers for Qualcomm Snapdragon chipsets are similarly available.

- Angus


[1] Whether anyone cares is a different question, I guess.

[2] Although their license still requires you to agree to only use it
on Nexus S branded phones & with the Android OS, only.

_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
Dis...@lists.hackerspaces.org
http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss