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spoirier
Apr 25, 2013, 5:55:29 PM4/25/13
to hackers...@googlegroups.com
Hello. As I just came to introduce my project in the last 2 meetings, and was told to open the discussion here, so here it is.
(To re-introduce myself: I am mathematician from France and currently dedicate much time to develop a web site on the foundations of mathematics and physics, settheory.net)
For why I came to contact you : I developed a vision of how to make a global revolution by means of new free software for web servers, made of a combination of several new web applications of diverse natures and purposes.
I described it in my web site : alias infoliberalism.info
though these pages may be not very well presented yet.
And I need programmers to implement it (as I'm not programmer myself)
Several aspects may be first discussed:
- As for the long term vision, the key idea is that the systematic sharing and processing of information about trust (once well-designed the precise list of kinds of trust and how to process this information - and some other information) can ultimately constitute a new decentralized, flexible and coherent political order, resolving many problems (not only political ones but also a large number of "small" justice problems that are usually considered too small and not formal enough for ever being treated and resolved by the justice institutions - As any justice system involves trials, authentified online conversations combined with information on trust will make it). This concept comes in combination with a whole economic theory of a decentralized online money system (that, unlike Bitcoin, would be very stable and flexible, allowing for a wider diversity of financial transactions) but is rather complicated and will take a lot of work to be properly implemented, and thus is not for the short-term plans. It usually took one or a few hours to properly explain and debate a significant part of these concepts, when I had the chance to.
- For the middle-term vision, we can enumerate and discuss the more precise list of diverse envisioned functionalities (not yet political nor monetary) and how they can suffice to bring a large-scale popularity of the project. The first functions are a combination of decentralized global authentication system (similar to OpenId, with a list of independent servers that know each other by their public keys and each have their "local" users - not in a geographical sense of course) and forum system replacing email (for a use somewhat similar to the idea of Google Wave but technically based on different principles); how it can resolve the spam problem, and how the conversation interface for email users can boost a wide adoption movement. A general user panel for a user logged in to "his home site" combining different signals, functions and authentifying bookmarks: discussions, news, tweets... with an open list of possible additional functionalities, such as things now making the success of facebook, or online markets, that may as well be explicitly developed as free software components to be added to this project and installed by many hosts, or be left as independent commercial services by any company with their own sites. I also have plans for a very efficient decentralized dating system but I will only give details later.
- For the short-term vision, we can discuss the details of technical specifications of the first functions: which technology is needed, why OpenId is or is not a good starting piece of code (I guess it is not but it may need a debate), other comparisons with other projects, how things should precisely work... see the current desciption (trust-forum.net), with a piece of code that is old and full of bugs but may at least be used for testing and figuring out the intended concept.
- And finally : who might be interested to work on it ?
Thanks.
(To re-introduce myself: I am mathematician from France and currently dedicate much time to develop a web site on the foundations of mathematics and physics, settheory.net)
For why I came to contact you : I developed a vision of how to make a global revolution by means of new free software for web servers, made of a combination of several new web applications of diverse natures and purposes.
I described it in my web site : alias infoliberalism.info
though these pages may be not very well presented yet.
And I need programmers to implement it (as I'm not programmer myself)
Several aspects may be first discussed:
- As for the long term vision, the key idea is that the systematic sharing and processing of information about trust (once well-designed the precise list of kinds of trust and how to process this information - and some other information) can ultimately constitute a new decentralized, flexible and coherent political order, resolving many problems (not only political ones but also a large number of "small" justice problems that are usually considered too small and not formal enough for ever being treated and resolved by the justice institutions - As any justice system involves trials, authentified online conversations combined with information on trust will make it). This concept comes in combination with a whole economic theory of a decentralized online money system (that, unlike Bitcoin, would be very stable and flexible, allowing for a wider diversity of financial transactions) but is rather complicated and will take a lot of work to be properly implemented, and thus is not for the short-term plans. It usually took one or a few hours to properly explain and debate a significant part of these concepts, when I had the chance to.
- For the middle-term vision, we can enumerate and discuss the more precise list of diverse envisioned functionalities (not yet political nor monetary) and how they can suffice to bring a large-scale popularity of the project. The first functions are a combination of decentralized global authentication system (similar to OpenId, with a list of independent servers that know each other by their public keys and each have their "local" users - not in a geographical sense of course) and forum system replacing email (for a use somewhat similar to the idea of Google Wave but technically based on different principles); how it can resolve the spam problem, and how the conversation interface for email users can boost a wide adoption movement. A general user panel for a user logged in to "his home site" combining different signals, functions and authentifying bookmarks: discussions, news, tweets... with an open list of possible additional functionalities, such as things now making the success of facebook, or online markets, that may as well be explicitly developed as free software components to be added to this project and installed by many hosts, or be left as independent commercial services by any company with their own sites. I also have plans for a very efficient decentralized dating system but I will only give details later.
- For the short-term vision, we can discuss the details of technical specifications of the first functions: which technology is needed, why OpenId is or is not a good starting piece of code (I guess it is not but it may need a debate), other comparisons with other projects, how things should precisely work... see the current desciption (trust-forum.net), with a piece of code that is old and full of bugs but may at least be used for testing and figuring out the intended concept.
- And finally : who might be interested to work on it ?
Thanks.
TeMPOraL
Apr 26, 2013, 7:11:57 PM4/26/13
to hackers...@googlegroups.com
Hi Sylvain!
To bring some context for others, I met Sylvain on the last OpenCoffee where he came to introduce his project.
Right now I'm unfortunately too busy to help you personally, but I hope you'll get some feedback here.
I also took liberty of submitting your InfoLiberalism page to HackerNews (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5616002); hopefully it will spawn a useful discussion there.
Best luck with your project!
Jacek Złydach,
http://temporal.pr0.pl/devblog | http://esejepg.pl
http://temporal.pr0.pl/devblog | http://esejepg.pl
TRC - Bringing you tomorrow's solutions yesterday.
--
Otrzymujesz tę wiadomość, ponieważ subskrybujesz grupę dyskusyjną Google o nazwie "Hackerspace KRK".
Aby anulować subskrypcję tej grupy i przestać otrzymywać z niej wiadomości, wyślij e-maila do hackerspace-k...@googlegroups.com.
Aby wyświetlić tę dyskusję w internecie, odwiedź stronę https://groups.google.com/d/msg/hackerspace-krk/-/qdsQAQok8XwJ.
TeMPOraL
Apr 27, 2013, 2:51:02 AM4/27/13
to hackers...@googlegroups.com
Take a look at the discussion on HackerNews:
Jacek Złydach,
http://temporal.pr0.pl/devblog | http://esejepg.pl
http://temporal.pr0.pl/devblog | http://esejepg.pl
TRC - Bringing you tomorrow's solutions yesterday.
IanKrakow
Apr 27, 2013, 11:29:44 AM4/27/13
to hackers...@googlegroups.com
Hello, I met Sylvain also at opencoffee, I am interested in working on and possibly investing in this project, but It is hard for me and my team to understand the project completely, from the first simple point. If any one can help us understand in a simple way, I would be interested to meet together and discuss this project more. I hope with someone also from hackerspace.
Vladimir Mitiouchev
Apr 27, 2013, 11:41:40 AM4/27/13
to hackers...@googlegroups.com
I wonder if current GPG infrastructure would meet requirements of the program. It has flexible chain of trust between users, free (as freedom) keyservers, ability to sign and/or encrypt messages. I see no problem in developing GPG based single sign-on system.
Hello, I met Sylvain also at opencoffee, I am interested in working on and possibly investing in this project, but It is hard for me and my team to understand the project completely, from the first simple point. If any one can help us understand in a simple way, I would be interested to meet together and discuss this project more. I hope with someone also from hackerspace.
--
Otrzymujesz tę wiadomość, ponieważ subskrybujesz grupę dyskusyjną Google o nazwie "Hackerspace KRK".
Aby anulować subskrypcję tej grupy i przestać otrzymywać z niej wiadomości, wyślij e-maila do hackerspace-k...@googlegroups.com.
Aby wyświetlić tę dyskusję w internecie, odwiedź stronę https://groups.google.com/d/msg/hackerspace-krk/-/6VORHwVyax0J.
Sylvain Poirier
Apr 27, 2013, 4:30:37 PM4/27/13
to hackers...@googlegroups.com
The proposition that I meant for the project is basically to apply the
system of GPG infrastructure to the case of the network of web
servers. Each web server would have a copy of the whole list of peer
servers with their public keys and the graph of certifications between
servers.
The vision is that once adopted worldwide, it may be something like a
network of hundreds of thousands of servers, each server having its
own thousands of users, so as to reach a world total of billions of
users.
Thus the worldwide infrastructure would be based on each server having
a copy of this graph of hundreds of thousands of other servers with
their public keys. Each server would have its administrator with
technical skill so as to properly manage his own key, and do the
necessary ifever a trouble happened in the graph of certification.
I guess it would make this more reliable than the usual assumption of
a huge and completely dispersed graph of one key per user.
On the other hand, of course there will also need to be a secure
connection of each user to the servers, but I guess this is usual
enough for the solutions to be already available (SSL ?).
Note that the graph of trust that I speak about is distinct from this
GPG certification graph, even if each of these graphs can be used to
secure the other. Because I mean to make a political order between
humans, while the GPG certification graph is just the political order
between computers. And the purpose of the technical infrastructure is
that the computers network should behave as a transparent platform at
the service of humans, rather than to expect the human structure to
serve the one of computers :)
system of GPG infrastructure to the case of the network of web
servers. Each web server would have a copy of the whole list of peer
servers with their public keys and the graph of certifications between
servers.
The vision is that once adopted worldwide, it may be something like a
network of hundreds of thousands of servers, each server having its
own thousands of users, so as to reach a world total of billions of
users.
Thus the worldwide infrastructure would be based on each server having
a copy of this graph of hundreds of thousands of other servers with
their public keys. Each server would have its administrator with
technical skill so as to properly manage his own key, and do the
necessary ifever a trouble happened in the graph of certification.
I guess it would make this more reliable than the usual assumption of
a huge and completely dispersed graph of one key per user.
On the other hand, of course there will also need to be a secure
connection of each user to the servers, but I guess this is usual
enough for the solutions to be already available (SSL ?).
Note that the graph of trust that I speak about is distinct from this
GPG certification graph, even if each of these graphs can be used to
secure the other. Because I mean to make a political order between
humans, while the GPG certification graph is just the political order
between computers. And the purpose of the technical infrastructure is
that the computers network should behave as a transparent platform at
the service of humans, rather than to expect the human structure to
serve the one of computers :)
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