SC meeting Wednesday morning (Oct 23), 9am PST

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Bhaskar Janakiraman

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Oct 22, 2013, 2:07:14 AM10/22/13
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I will start a hangout, and add folks to a calendar invite. 

Its been a while since our last meeting, so we'll leave some time for things people want to bring up. 

When: Oct 23, 9am - 10am

Agenda:
- Deprecation: gather thoughts from people for GWT 3.0. (I'll be surprised if we manage to make any decisions, but its good to get the dialog going). 
- GWT open source project: discuss if there's anything we can do to facilitate more/easier contributions
- Gather list of topics the SC should discuss, either in this meeting or subsequent ones. 
- Other topics people want to bring up.

Thanks,
Bhaskar

Colin Alworth

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Oct 25, 2013, 12:16:14 AM10/25/13
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Oct 23 steering call notes

Bhaskar, Colin, Daniel, Artur, Joonas, Ray, Stephen


In the future, we’ll meet more regularly, schedule a recurring call, then cancel if nothing needs to be discussed. Expected time will be 9am pacific time, second Wednesday of each month.


Red Hat may put forward a name as a possible nominee for steering committee


Document from Vaadin wrt deprecation

Preliminary results from survey:

45% of users need ie8 in 2014

36%, 44% of users need java 6 (server env, development env)


Initial Conclusions:

  • dropping ie8/9 provide technical benefits (more than just dropping 8), but would affect many users

  • dropping java6/7 provides technical benefits (more than just dropping 6), but would affect many users


Discussion, paraphrased:

Daniel: go ahead and make the cut, make them use gwt 2

Joonas: what about making gwt 3 do both?

Ray: better modularization might give us that, if we break out gwt2 widgets from gwt-user, new web component system in its own new jar

Stephen: massive manpower requirement, the potential upset could be limited by keeping gwt 2 around, need a watershed event to make gwt 'fun'

Bhaskar: how many users will jump forward to use gwt 3 and drop 2?

Raniel/Ray: gwt3 needs to be new and cool, more like modern js dev experience, access to browser features

Ray: swing vs awt vs swt, same with gwt2 vs gwt3; modular compilation and such will still benefit users using gwt2 widget

Daniel: switching to feature-based properties will mean more permutations, none of which can include old browsers

Ray: 'modern browser' profile vs 'compatibility' profile, no polyfills for scoped stylesheets, webgl, typed arrays,

Bhaskar: fundamental question is 'what does gwt 3.0 look like', not only from browser perspective, but language perspective

Daniel: at least on the server, java6 has to be around for at least the next year or two, but on the client side, java8 makes the development process cleaner

Ray: on the client side, we run our own compiler with our own jdt - a java6 sdk could compile java8 code through that jdt. The real issue is shared code (and maybe dev env? IDE?)

Artur: can we catch issues of using java8 libs in java6 code?

Ray: java.util.functions and .streams would need to be cut out of the classpath when compiling for pre-8

Matt: IDE should already behave here

Ray: even inside google, its going to be at least a year before java8 is supported across the board. gwt 3.0 should introduce non-backward compatible features that are supporting the future, but not-not run on things we need to run on today


Bhaskar: whats our guiding principle for 3.0 - if you have an existing app, will it work?

Ray: old event listeners are a problem - if we have two methods with the same name that both take a single-event interface, we have a problem. for gwt3 we should remove event listeners

Joonas: breaking applications turns out not to be a big deal from our experience, provided we're making it better, and stay stable for a significant period of time after that

Ray: what if new features that were added just didn't get ie8 support by default - makes for a cleaner codebase, but you need to willingly give up older browsers

Daniel: hard to pull off, since we don't want to have the entire gwt event system

Ray: that goes to my point about 'swing vs awt', the new model will have certain guarantees about performance, limitations about browsers


Bhaskar: timecheck -  lets go and consider what our guiding principle of gwt 3.0 should be


Daniel/Ray/Stephen: testing old browsers is time consuming, have to decide if we're going to just allow stuff to rot in place


Colin/Joonas/Bhaskar: what does it look like for enterprise users

Ray: how about a fireside chat at gwt.create to discuss  what kinds of constraints people are under

Daniel: maybe they should stay under gwt 2

Ray/Bhaskar: then the compiler changes need to be put in 2 or backported to 2 after the fact


Bhaskar: lets try to break things in 3, then not for a while

Joonas: if that is to be the case, then the release model should change then to not be tick/tock


Ray: lets see what the 3.0 doc looks like try to document what will be lost in 3.0


Ray: have to be careful that we don't break too much, might end up alienating users to other projects


Bhaskar/Ray: need to take a vote on ie8 being dropped/supported, need to decide what it means to 'drop'/'support' ie8, ray will do a brief doc on this

Joonas: then vaadin and sencha can try to bring their own perspectives back, along with other edits from other steering committee members


Colin/Stephen: more design docs from inside of google

Ray: good idea, will also serve as advertising for upcoming new features


Meeting concluded that more discussion is required after we’ve seen the document that Ray is working on, looking at what the options are for balancing future features and existing browsers.


Next call is planned for Wednesday, November 13.

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