Falcone Tour of Puglia

34 views
Skip to first unread message

Patrick Hayes

unread,
Jan 15, 2012, 6:42:14 PM1/15/12
to Loopfra...@yahoogroups.com, Guzzi Singles, GB
I just got too busy with life. This one took me a long time to assemble
and publish. Enjoy!

http://home.comcast.net/~pehayes/pugliablog.html

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Charles Mullendore

unread,
Jan 15, 2012, 6:54:47 PM1/15/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Great report!

Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com

--- On Sun, 1/15/12, Patrick Hayes <peh...@comcast.net> wrote:
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Guzzi Singles" group.
To post to this group, send email to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to guzzi-singles+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/guzzi-singles?hl=en.

Bill Burke

unread,
Jan 15, 2012, 7:17:21 PM1/15/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Didn’t Patrick’s last report of a bacon tour also include an accidental encoouter with the Miss Italia Monda competition??
Accident or sharp planning??



on 1/15/12 6:54 PM, Charles Mullendore at c.d.mul...@att.net wrote:

Great report!

Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com

--- On Sun, 1/15/12, Patrick Hayes <peh...@comcast.net> wrote:

From: Patrick Hayes <peh...@comcast.net>
Subject: [guzzi-singles] Falcone Tour of Puglia
To: "Loopfra...@topica.com" <Loopfra...@yahoogroups.com>, "Guzzi Singles" <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>, "GB" <motoguzz...@yahoogroups.co.uk>
Date: Sunday, January 15, 2012, 6:42 PM

I just got too busy with life.  This one took me a long time to assemble and publish.  Enjoy!

http://home.comcast.net/~pehayes/pugliablog.html

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Guzzi Singles" group.

Alan Comfort

unread,
Jan 15, 2012, 11:10:25 PM1/15/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Brilliant! Thank you.
Alan in Vancouver

http://home.comcast.net/~pehayes/pugliablog.html

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Guzzi Singles" group.

To post to this group, send email to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to guzzi-single...@googlegroups.com.

Guzz...@aol.com

unread,
Jan 16, 2012, 2:19:40 AM1/16/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Thanks buddy........but remind me to re-enforce my seat before you take my bike for a ride ..ha ha
 
Tim

Rick

unread,
Jan 16, 2012, 10:31:04 AM1/16/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Patrick,
You are a lucky man taking all this in. I hope the health issues here at home are in check.
Awaiting more photos, especially the girls and yeah, didn't you have a trip last year that involved a beauty pageant?


Rick Yamane
Motion Pro Inc.

We Ride! We Wrench! We Race!

867 American St.

San Carlos, CA 94070

(650)594-9600

(650)594-9610 Fax

ri...@motionpro.com

-----Original Message-----
From: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:guzzi-...@googlegroups.com]
Subject: [guzzi-singles] Falcone Tour of Puglia

Patrick Hayes

unread,
Jan 16, 2012, 10:38:57 AM1/16/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com

On 01/16/2012 07:31 AM, Rick wrote:
> and yeah, didn't you have a trip last year that involved a beauty pageant?


Same tour in 2010. I was able to post out a few pictures and stories
directly from Italy and that is what you remember. This current report
summarizes the complete tour. Normally I try to get the report out
within a few months of return. This one just simmered on the back burner.

I didn't go on the 2011 Tour of Bavaria. But, Gordon DelaMare did. I'm
trying to get him to compose the story. You can all chime in and
pressure him to do it.

:-)

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Guzz...@aol.com

unread,
Jan 16, 2012, 10:48:22 AM1/16/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Hey Gordon,,,,,we would all like to hear your view from the rear view mirror on the 2011 Tour of Bavaria !
 
How's that Patrick? <grin>
 
        Tim
 

Gordon de la Mare

unread,
Jan 16, 2012, 10:57:49 AM1/16/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Yeah, alright.
One liner summary .. wet, cold, too many breakdowns and too many folks got lost.



From: "Guzz...@aol.com" <Guzz...@aol.com>
To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, 16 January 2012, 15:48
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Falcone Tour of Puglia

Guzz...@aol.com

unread,
Jan 16, 2012, 10:59:27 AM1/16/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
How does one get lost in a parade ??

Gordon de la Mare

unread,
Jan 16, 2012, 11:16:57 AM1/16/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Good question .. usually because the guy in front never checks the mirror to see if there is someone behind him .. and so on all the way down the 20 odd bikes riding ...

Sent: Monday, 16 January 2012, 15:59

Guzz...@aol.com

unread,
Jan 16, 2012, 11:20:04 AM1/16/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
I know the feeling Gordon. I've lead several rides over the years and even after you have just told everyone in the parking lot you lose half the group at the first turn.......

Alan Comfort

unread,
Jan 28, 2012, 1:43:59 PM1/28/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com

Anybody out there have a spare 30 x 62 x 13 (SKF 99206) countershaft bearing or know of a source for this item? It is the missing piece that is preventing me from re-ssembling my Falcone engine. I ordered one from Locate Ball Bearings.com in Palm Desert, CA and they sent me a bearing very quickly. Trouble is that it was not even close to what I ordered. All attempts to get a response, a replacement or a refund have been unsuccessful. They have a great on-line site and filled my order quickly, but that was the end of it. I have a feeling that they fill their orders with whatever is on the top of a pile of surplus bearings and then ignore the complaints. It was not a lot of money to lose, but I feel obligated to spread the word that this outfit is not what it seems to be.
Marksman in UK has a listing for this bearing and my order has been taken. If it does not arrive by mid February I may just go ahead and grind down 30 x 62 x 16. The old one is not serviceable.
Regards, Alan in Vancouver

Patrick Hayes

unread,
Jan 28, 2012, 1:54:31 PM1/28/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com

On 1/28/2012 10:43 AM, Alan Comfort wrote:
>
> Anybody out there have a spare 30 x 62 x 13 (SKF 99206) countershaft
> bearing or know of a source for this item?

It is my understanding that the 13mm bearings are no longer produced and
therefor no longer available unless you stumble upon NOS. I also
understand that there is a firm in Germany which takes a 15mm bearing
and precision grinds away 1mm from both sides so it becomes a 13. It is
called "Peter's Bearings" but I don't have any contact info. I also
understand that this unobtainium is not cheap, but I don't know the price.

I'm sure someone will chime in with the specific ordering and cost data.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Alan Comfort

unread,
Jan 28, 2012, 1:59:48 PM1/28/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Patrick. I will keep looking.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

--

Alan Comfort

unread,
Jan 28, 2012, 2:05:41 PM1/28/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Hello Patrick,
I have made an inquiry to http://www.peters-bearing.de/kontakt.php
Thanks for the tip
Regards, Alan in Vancouver

On 2012-01-28, at 10:54 AM, Patrick Hayes wrote:

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

--

Guzz...@aol.com

unread,
Jan 28, 2012, 2:07:35 PM1/28/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Alan,,,,,,,,I will check with my bearing supplier on Monday. They are closed on weekends. :>( They were good enough to help with my Airone wheel bearings a while back.
 
Tim

Gordon de la Mare

unread,
Jan 28, 2012, 2:11:48 PM1/28/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Sadly Peters' Bearngs doesn't list that size but you could always ask.
You'll need produkt then kugellager probably after switching English on.
As Patrick says, Peter will grind to correct size.
Cheers
Gordon


From: Alan Comfort <alan.c...@gmail.com>
To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 28 January 2012, 18:59
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Falcone countershaft gearing

Thanks Patrick. I will keep looking.
On 2012-01-28, at 10:54 AM, Patrick Hayes wrote:



On 1/28/2012 10:43 AM, Alan Comfort wrote:
>
> Anybody out there have a spare 30 x 62 x 13  (SKF 99206) countershaft
> bearing or know of a source for this item?

It is my understanding that the 13mm bearings are no longer produced and therefor no longer available unless you stumble upon NOS.  I also understand that there is a firm in Germany which takes a 15mm bearing and precision grinds away 1mm from both sides so it becomes a 13.  It is called "Peter's Bearings" but I don't have any contact info.  I also understand that this unobtainium is not cheap, but I don't know the price.

I'm sure someone will chime in with the specific ordering and cost data.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Guzzi Singles" group.
To post to this group, send email to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to guzzi-singles+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/guzzi-singles?hl=en.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Guzzi Singles" group.
To post to this group, send email to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to guzzi-singles+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

Alan Comfort

unread,
Jan 28, 2012, 2:25:58 PM1/28/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Luigi Stucchi has a listing, but I cannot figure out their site. I can get a 30 x 62 x 16 locally and see if there is enough material to allow a 1.5 mm grind on each side.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to guzzi-single...@googlegroups.com.

John Mead

unread,
Jan 28, 2012, 3:43:15 PM1/28/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
I ordered a pair of Timken tapered bearings from Locate and what they sent me was not Timken but Chinese counterfit ones. I used my credit card and was able to cancel the transaction for a full refund. I am only out the cost of sending the crap back to them.

I then found a bearing house here in Richmond, VA, and they had the Timken bearings I wanted. I will check with them on Monday and let you know about the SKF 99206

John Mead

--- On Sat, 1/28/12, Alan Comfort <alan.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

Jerome Kimberlin

unread,
Jan 28, 2012, 5:39:06 PM1/28/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
On 1/28/2012 10:43 AM, Alan Comfort wrote:
> Anybody out there have a spare 30 x 62 x 13 (SKF 99206) countershaft bearing or know of a source for this item?

Stucchi Code CSC921136 cost is 42.96 euro or about US$56 plus shipping.

http://stucchiluigi.it/category.php?id_category=83&id_lang=1&orderby=price&orderway=desc&p=3

I have one I can send you on Monday if you want it - same price plus
shipping via USPS. Postage would be US$12.95 if you are in Canada via
flat rate priority. Probably cheaper in a padded envelope, though.

JerryK

Alan Comfort

unread,
Jan 28, 2012, 6:57:54 PM1/28/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Thanks John. Keep me posted as to the results. I ordered one from Stucchi today, but if I end up with two, I'll replace both. The drive side feels OK, but I might as well renew it while it's apart.
Regards, Alan in Vancouver

Alan Comfort

unread,
Jan 28, 2012, 7:01:51 PM1/28/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Jerome. Send me your address and I'll put a cheque in the mail on Monday. I ordered one from Stucchi today, but if I end up with a spare, I'll be happy to pass it along to the next Guzzista in need.
Alan Comfort
4306 Atlin Street
Vancouver, BC
V5R 2C2
CANADA

http://stucchiluigi.it/category.php?id_category=83&id_lang=1&orderby=price&orderway=desc&p=3

JerryK

--

Jerome Kimberlin

unread,
Jan 28, 2012, 7:32:49 PM1/28/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
On 1/28/2012 4:01 PM, Alan Comfort wrote:
> Thanks Jerome. Send me your address and I'll put a cheque in the mail on Monday. I ordered one from Stucchi today, but if I end up with a spare, I'll be happy to pass it along to the next Guzzista in need.

Alan, I'd rather keep it for the time being. I keep spares for the
engines that I rebuild for Guzzi folks so I'm not anxious to get rid of
critical parts. However, if Stucchi doesn't come up with anything for
you, get back to me. I'm super lucky that the last two engines I've
rebuilt haven't needed the transmission bearings. But most do. You
know that those narrow bearings for the tranny are different on each
side? One is 30x 62 x 13, the other is 33 x 66 x 13..

I've often thought of using a 6006 (30 x 55 x 13) and putting a bronze
sleeve around it. Seems like that might be better than grinding down a
15mm wide to 13mm.

Cheers,

JerryK

Alan Comfort

unread,
Jan 28, 2012, 8:02:42 PM1/28/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Hello Jerry,
Roger that on the two different size bearings on the countershaft. i had a brain cramp on that one. If the Stucchi bearing does not come through then the bronze sleeve on the 30x55x13 bearing might be the best option. If I am really stuck, I will come begging.
Ciao, Alan in Vancouver

Cheers,

JerryK

--

Bill Burke

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 12:08:27 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
With the pushrod screwed into the pressure plate on the bike, the pushrod throwout bearing, bottone (part # M 080) doesn’t come out of the pushrod easily. Will taking the pushrod out of the bike make it any easier?


The five remaining balls in my bottone don’t fall out of the track they run in. Resisting my efforts to take the bearing off the end of the pushrod, I am thinking of simply bringing the ball count back up to the full complement of eight. Anyone have any thoughts on this approach?
Bill Burke  


Guzz...@aol.com

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 12:16:07 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Just grab it with a pliers, rotate it a little and give it yank, it's not as stuck as you think. I used a tiny screwdriver in the slot and it popped right out.
 
Tim
 
clutRod2.jpg

Guzz...@aol.com

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 12:20:29 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Speaking of clutches.......Stucchi has told me there is maybe a two month wait for airone clutch plates.
 
Tim

Bill Burke

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 12:51:12 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Tim.
In your picture, if I open the slot with a screwdriver, I am loosening the pushrods grip on the bottone? Ie, the slots are in the pushrod and the bottone is pressed into it? There is nothing about assembling
the clutch spring and associated manicotti that locks the bottone into the push rod when assembled?
Bill

on 1/29/12 12:16 PM, Guzz...@aol.com at Guzz...@aol.com wrote:

Jerome Kimberlin

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 1:32:54 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
On 1/29/2012 9:08 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
With the pushrod screwed into the pressure plate on the bike, the pushrod throwout bearing, bottone (part # M 080) doesn’t come out of the pushrod easily. Will taking the pushrod out of the bike make it any easier?

What Tim said is correct.  The button is just a friction fit and just a little pressure in the slots will let it come out.



The five remaining balls in my bottone don’t fall out of the track they run in. Resisting my efforts to take the bearing off the end of the pushrod, I am thinking of simply bringing the ball count back up to the full complement of eight. Anyone have any thoughts on this approach?


If the button is original, it may be that the pressure against it has flattened the lips of the bearing groove a little.  However, it could be that someone put 1/8" balls in there - which allows only 7 balls to be inserted in the first place.  The correct ball size is 3 mm and you can get 8 balls in there of that size.  If you want to put the balls back in, it is probably better to put in all 8 of them new.  The old 5 bearing balls will probably lift out with a little help from a tiny screwdriver.

Button lube should always be one of the Dow-Corning high pressure moly greases, or better.  You can get the grease and the 3mm balls from McMaster-Carr if you have to mail order them.

JerryK

Bill Burke

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 1:37:05 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Jerry
The bearing should come off without removing it from the bike and without taking pressure off the spring?
Bill B



on 1/29/12 1:32 PM, Jerome Kimberlin at kimb...@comcast.net wrote:

  On 1/29/2012 9:08 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
Airone clutch throwout bearing. With the pushrod screwed into the pressure plate on the bike, the pushrod throwout bearing, bottone (part # M 080) doesn’t come out of the pushrod easily. Will taking the pushrod out of the bike make it any easier?
 

Nick Thomas

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 1:42:04 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
And to add one more data point - mine was in so tight that I took the whole rod out of the bike and worked at it in a padded vice.  I felt like I was on the verge bending the shaft and then having to deal with Stucci, et al.  Besides it's easier to work on  that way.  Even it a vice it was tough.  I used a flatblade screwdriver to gently pry the two metal leaves apart.  It came out only reluctantly.

-Nick



Patrick Hayes

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 2:24:26 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com

On 1/29/2012 9:08 AM, Bill Burke wrote:

> With the pushrod screwed into the pressure plate on the bike, the

> pushrod throwout bearing, /bottone/ (part # M 080) doesn�t come out of


> the pushrod easily. Will taking the pushrod out of the bike make it any
> easier?

STOP! Do NOT remove the rod. If you do, the far end pressure plate is
probably going to fall out of the clutch basket or at least its threaded
hole will fall out of alignment with the rod and you won't be able to
install. Even if you could avoid those errors, when you reinstall it,
there is a critical measurement of an exposed thread on the far end.
How are you going to observe that? If you remove the rod, you will HAVE
to remove the flywheel and clutch side cover to reassemble everything.

Your button is tight in? I wish. Both of mine are relatively loose.
And that isn't good.

Remove the aluminum cast clutch spring dome cover and access to the
button will be a lot better. I find they need relube every few hundred
miles and I can't get them to last for more than a year or two.

I see Jerry has commented on the ball groove, ball size and ball count.
Find someone who is ordering bits from Italy and have them include a
couple of spare buttons for you.

There are two critical measurements on the clutch system. First is the
exposed threading described above. Second is the compressed dimension
of the two concentric clutch pressure springs.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Guzz...@aol.com

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 2:26:12 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Bill,,,,,,the button should pretty much fall out on a good day once the pressure of the arm is released. I grease my button just about every time I ride one of these old rascals. A smear of grease on the face of the button where it contacts the adjuster screw might not hurt either. I have the 8 ball buttons on my bikes.
 
My clutch plates don't look nearly as bad as yours Bill. Guzzino has the plates pictured but he's all out of them. Paul told me 4-6 weeks maybe if I was lucky. I think it's cool that guzzi stamps all their parts with that tiny tool. I'd like that job !!
 
In a message dated 1/29/2012 12:37:09 P.M. Central Standard Time, binh...@verizon.net writes:
Thanks Jerry
The bearing should come off without removing it from the bike and without taking pressure off the spring?
Bill B


on 1/29/12 1:32 PM, Jerome Kimberlin at kimb...@comcast.net wrote:

  On 1/29/2012 9:08 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
Airone clutch throwout bearing. With the pushrod screwed into the pressure plate on the bike, the pushrod throwout bearing, bottone (part # M 080) doesn’t come out of the pushrod easily. Will taking the pushrod out of the bike make it any easier?
 

 What Tim said is correct.  The button is just a friction fit and just a little pressure in the slots will let it come out.
 

 
 The five remaining balls in my bottone don’t fall out of the track they run in. Resisting my efforts to take the bearing off the end of the pushrod, I am thinking of simply bringing the ball count back up to the full complement of eight. Anyone have any thoughts on this approach?
 

 If the button is original, it may be that the pressure against it has flattened the lips of the bearing groove a little.  However, it could be that someone put 1/8" balls in there - which allows only 7 balls to be inserted in the first place.  The correct ball size is 3 mm and you can get 8 balls in there of that size.  If you want to put the balls back in, it is probably better to put in all 8 of them new.  The old 5 bearing balls will probably lift out with a little help from a tiny screwdriver.
 
 Button lube should always be one of the Dow-Corning high pressure moly greases, or better.  You can get the grease and the 3mm balls from McMaster-Carr if you have to mail order them.
 
 JerryK
 
Cplates2.jpg

Guzz...@aol.com

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 2:29:57 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
I can't remember where I saw it but I thought there is more than one size of button. I could be wrong??
 
Tim
 
In a message dated 1/29/2012 1:24:21 P.M. Central Standard Time, peh...@comcast.net writes:


On 1/29/2012 9:08 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
> With the pushrod screwed into the pressure plate on the bike, the
> pushrod throwout bearing, /bottone/ (part # M 080) doesn’t come out of

> the pushrod easily. Will taking the pushrod out of the bike make it any
> easier?

STOP!  Do NOT remove the rod.  If you do, the far end pressure plate is
probably going to fall out of the clutch basket or at least its threaded
hole will fall out of alignment with the rod and you won't be able to
install.  Even if you could avoid those errors, when you reinstall it,
there is a critical measurement of an exposed thread on the far end.
How are you going to observe that?  If you remove the rod, you will HAVE
to remove the flywheel and clutch side cover to reassemble everything.

Your button is tight in?  I wish.  Both of mine are relatively loose.
And that isn't good.

Remove the aluminum cast clutch spring dome cover and access to the
button will be a lot better.  I find they need relube every few hundred
miles and I can't get them to last for more than a year or two.

I see Jerry has commented on the ball groove, ball size and ball count.
  Find someone who is ordering bits from Italy and have them include a
couple of spare buttons for you.

There are two critical measurements on the clutch system.  First is the
exposed threading described above.  Second is the compressed dimension
of the two concentric clutch pressure springs.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Patrick Hayes

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 2:30:38 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com

On 1/29/2012 9:51 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
> Thanks Tim.
> In your picture, if I open the slot with a screwdriver, I am loosening

> the pushrods grip on the /bottone/? Ie, the slots are in the pushrod and


> the bottone is pressed into it?

That is correct. The button has a stem about the size of a pencil. The
push rod has a cup with a hole or recess of the same size. This cup has
the two lateral slits so that the cup can expand slightly to accept the
press of the button.


There is nothing about assembling

> the clutch spring and associated /manicotti/ that locks the /bottone/


> into the push rod when assembled?

The only critical thing is to realize that the manicotto has a backward
or left-handed thread. If you have these parts off, be very careful not
to push on the rod and perhaps push out clutch bits on the other side.
Install the springs over the manicotto. Now install the outer,knurled
adjusting knob. Hard to do because it immediately pushes on the
manicotto and knocks it out of align with the rod. Use a small
screwdriver. Reach in between the spring coils so you can push on the
back side of the manicotto and keep it levered or forced outward against
the rod. Now you can thread on the knurled adjusting knob (as long as
you remember which way to turn it.) Once you catch a thread or two you
can remove the screwdriver. Now, keep adjusting until you compress the
spring to the proper dimension. Not sure if that is the same for both
Airone and Falcone.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Patrick Hayes

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 2:31:31 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com

On 1/29/2012 10:37 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
> Thanks Jerry
> The bearing should come off without removing it from the bike and
> without taking pressure off the spring?

Exactly. Remove the aluminum cover for more access.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Alan Comfort

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 2:38:23 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
One of the connecting rod bolts that came with the new rod sheared off at 20 ft/lb, during the final fitting of the con rod to the crankshaft. Not good. I will be looking for a new pair of bolts as I am reluctant to rely on the used bolts from the old rod in this critical application. Anyone know of a source for this part? or if there are manufacturers who can custom make this sort of thing?
Regards, Alan in Vancouver

Guzz...@aol.com

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 2:40:10 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
I measured my compressed spring before removal and it was set the same 27 mm as the 500's before the knurled nut was removed.
 
Tim
 

Patrick Hayes

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 2:46:33 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com

On 1/29/2012 11:29 AM, Guzz...@aol.com wrote:
> I can't remember where I saw it but I thought there is more than one
> size of button. I could be wrong??

At least the Ercole has a much larger button. Much more stout on
internal design and ball control as well. I'll take a pic and post
later. Some of my Italian friends use this larger button but it
requires boring out the hole of the aluminum dome cover. Not sure if I
want to go there as yet.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Bill Burke

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 4:26:21 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com

Bill Burke

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 5:07:07 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Hi Patrick. Thanks for the warning. The flywheel and cover are already off
the left side and the cast aluminum cover is off the right side. But what is
the critical measurement when re installing the rod? I just replaced the
clutch plates and screwed the pushrod into the pressure plate as far as I
could and still rotate the small MANICOTTO to engage with the flats on the
pushrod. It seems this allows the pressure plate to be moved enough to allow
the plates to turn easily among themselves. Is there another measurement I
should observe?
IM calling the compressed length of the springs 27mm.
BB


on 1/29/12 2:24 PM, Patrick Hayes at peh...@comcast.net wrote:

>
>
> On 1/29/2012 9:08 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
>> With the pushrod screwed into the pressure plate on the bike, the

>> pushrod throwout bearing, /bottone/ (part # M 080) doesn¹t come out of

Guzz...@aol.com

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 6:22:58 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
My push rod end was screwed in flush with the pressure plate and my springs were compressed to 27 mm. I think the book calls for somewhere between 24 mm - 27 mm. But when you put new plates in they will be thicker probably and not warped so the  push rod measurement will be more critical I would imagine. You can fine tune the pressure or release at the lever.
 
Tim
 

Patrick Hayes

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 6:45:09 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com

On 1/29/2012 2:07 PM, Bill Burke wrote:
> But what is
> the critical measurement when re installing the rod? I just replaced the
> clutch plates and screwed the pushrod into the pressure plate as far as I
> could and still rotate the small MANICOTTO to engage with the flats on the
> pushrod. It seems this allows the pressure plate to be moved enough to allow
> the plates to turn easily among themselves. Is there another measurement I
> should observe?

No go. If the pushrod sticks out too far at the threaded side, it won't
operate when the cover is placed on. It will hit the cover before full
release action. In fact, it might even punch a hole in the left side
cover as you bolt it down.

The restoration manuals for all models say that the rod is installed
with "1mm or one turn of thread" exposed outside the plate. No more.

BTW, when you install the left side cover, you're going to have to press
against the crank gear and the heavy spring behind that gear. Have to
in order to get the plate flush. If you try to use the plate's
perimeter screws, you risk stripping out the holes quite easily. Better
to have four hands here. One person pushes in the plate and holds it
flush to the case while the other person quickly inserts the screws and
threads them home.

If you have no second person to help, you can make a little pressure
plate to do the squeezing for you. (You do have a lathe don't you?)

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/tool/MVC-744X.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/tool/MVC-745X.jpg

The center bore fits the crank. The step section fits the ID of the
hole in the sidecover. Use the crank bolt by hand to pull the cover
into position.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Jerome Kimberlin

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 7:00:53 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
On 1/29/2012 11:38 AM, Alan Comfort wrote:
> One of the connecting rod bolts that came with the new rod sheared off at 20 ft/lb, during the final fitting of the con rod to the crankshaft. Not good. I will be looking for a new pair of bolts as I am reluctant to rely on the used bolts from the old rod in this critical application. Anyone know of a source for this part? or if there are manufacturers who can custom make this sort of thing?
> Regards, Alan in Vancouver
>
I have some Alan. Cost me $12.50 each so same price to you. The
correct torque is 28 ft lb. Shearing at 20 is very bad, of course.
These bolts are very precision made.

JerryK

Jerome Kimberlin

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 7:01:55 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
On 1/29/2012 11:29 AM, Guzz...@aol.com wrote:
I can't remember where I saw it but I thought there is more than one size of button. I could be wrong??

I've seen three sizes.� Pre-WWII GTV, Falcone, and a big one for the Ercole.

JerryK

Bill Burke

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 7:12:08 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Once again I am grateful for the depth of information in this group.
I screwed the pushrod all the way in and a little more than one thread and
the rounded end of the pushrod protrudes from the pressure plate, maybe 2.75
mm. so the number of threads obeys the book but the shape of the rod makes a
contradiction.

Patrick Hayes

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 7:20:51 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com

On 1/29/2012 4:12 PM, Bill Burke wrote:
> Once again I am grateful for the depth of information in this group.
> I screwed the pushrod all the way in and a little more than one thread and
> the rounded end of the pushrod protrudes from the pressure plate, maybe 2.75
> mm. so the number of threads obeys the book but the shape of the rod makes a
> contradiction.

Direct from the SuperAlce manual, the assembly instruction is:

L'asta comando frizione deve avvitarsi sul piattello spingi dischi in
modo che sporga per circa un filetto.

My translation software says:

The clutch control rod must screw on the pressure plate disc so that it
sticks out for around a thread.

Would be nice to have a protrusion measurement rather than a thread
count. The rod is thread 6mm X 1.0mm pitch.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Patrick Hayes

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 7:23:22 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
And here is your standard Guzzi 500 clutch button on the right.

Compare with the oversized Ercole clutch button on the left.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-312X.jpg

Note the brass carrier plate which holds the balls in relative position
regardless of their wear.

Those Ercole drivers sure have big balls!!!!

Gordon, you can step in any time now.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Alan Comfort

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 7:57:11 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Hello Jerry,

I was torqueing them gradually in 5 ft/lb increments to 28 when one let go at 20...aaarrrrgh. I am presently using the old ones to keep it together, but they have an unknown history. A few dollars today might save thousands tomorrow.

I will be ever so grateful if you would put two in a padded envelope and send them to:
Alan Comfort
4306 Atlin Street
Vancouver, BC
V5R 2C2
Canada

I will post a cheque for $30 to your address on Monday if you send that to me off line. I am thinking that $5.00 should cover the postage. (assuming that you are in the USA)

Regards, Alan in Vancouver

JerryK

--

steven s.

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 8:55:19 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Alan,
 
Good thing it failed on the bench rather than at 3K RPM!
 
Steven Seftel

--- On Sun, 1/29/12, Alan Comfort <alan.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to guzzi-singles+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/guzzi-singles?hl=en.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Guzzi Singles" group.
To post to this group, send email to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to guzzi-singles+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

Alan Comfort

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 10:08:40 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Must have been made from recycled Fiat hoods.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to guzzi-single...@googlegroups.com.

Bill Burke

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 10:41:13 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
As mine sits now, there are 3.5 threads protruding.
The pretty flat end of the pushrod is protruding 2.7 +/- mm.
The manicotti and molla and the molla must come off to make it right.
BillB
DSC00640 push rod thread protrusion.jpg
DSC00640 push rod thread protrusion.jpg

Patrick Hayes

unread,
Jan 29, 2012, 11:16:57 PM1/29/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com

On 1/29/2012 7:41 PM, Bill Burke wrote:
> As mine sits now, there are 3.5 threads protruding.
> The pretty flat end of the pushrod is protruding 2.7 +/- mm.
> The manicotti and molla and the molla must come off to make it right.

No, only the knurled, external adjusting disc and the two concentric
coil springs behind it have to come off (actually, not even the springs,
but they'll just fall off anyway). The manicotto will slide inward to
disengage its registry with the outer cup end of the push rod. Then,
you can tighten or loosen the adjusting rod as necessary to get the
proper distal end one-thread exposure. Afterwards, pull the manicotto
back outwards to re-engage the push rod so that it can no longer turn.
The manicotto is prevented from turning because it has an internal bore
slot and the tip of the clutch shaft has a key nub machined or welded to it.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Jerome Kimberlin

unread,
Jan 30, 2012, 12:08:07 AM1/30/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
On 1/29/2012 7:41 PM, Bill Burke wrote:
> As mine sits now, there are 3.5 threads protruding.
> The pretty flat end of the pushrod is protruding 2.7 +/- mm.
> The manicotti and molla and the molla must come off to make it right.
As far as I know there is nothing sacred about the length of the
pushrod. You just need to get it through the clutch pressure plate, but
not so far that it runs on the clutch cover. You also need it long
enough to do this while getting the right side into the proper
position. Personally I would just shorten the rod (but it's not a good
idea to do that while in the bike). Personally, I like the right side
to be just as tight as possible and still get the parts nested together,
while the left side shows 1 1/2 threads. 2.7mm is too far out.

JerryK

Jerome Kimberlin

unread,
Jan 30, 2012, 2:59:56 PM1/30/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Alan, I've just mailed off the two rod bolts to you. Don't know how
long they will take to arrive. Cost was $3.30. So your invoice comes
to US$28.30. My email address is my Paypal address, or you can send a
cheque to me at:

J. Kimberlin
PO Box 70333
Richmond, CA
94807-0333 USA

Let's hope for speedy delivery.

Cheers,

JerryK

Bill Burke

unread,
Jan 30, 2012, 6:46:04 PM1/30/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Guzzino has the bearing, though I haven't been able to get the old one off
the pushrod yet. I tried heat and KROIL and grabbed it with a vice grip.
Haven't broken anything yet.
Bill B

Guzz...@aol.com

unread,
Jan 30, 2012, 6:57:34 PM1/30/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Put it in the vise and give it a good yank..........maybe spread the slot a wee bit? Mine was stuck but nothing a 3 pound hammer couldn't handle.. :>)
 
Tim
 

Guzz...@aol.com

unread,
Jan 30, 2012, 7:08:46 PM1/30/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Bill.......Try this. See picture. Put the button end in the vise, take an open end wrench 9/16" that fits over the rod where the shoulders are. Hard to see in the picture cuz it all blends in. Place wrench against shoulder and tap with hammer pushing rod away from button. ??
 
Tim
button.jpg

John Mead

unread,
Jan 30, 2012, 8:43:45 PM1/30/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Alan,
I stopped by the bearing shop today and inquired about the bearing. The only one they found that was close was 15mm wide.

However, one of the office people came out with a internet listing that showed that Marksman Industrial Ltd, in the UK has them. Their price is 45GBP. Site is http://marksman-ind.com

I also stopped by the machine shop I use and the owner said he has narrowed bearings on a magnetic surface grinder and 2mm is not a whole lot.

John Mead


--- On Sat, 1/28/12, Alan Comfort <alan.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Alan Comfort <alan.c...@gmail.com>
> Subject: [guzzi-singles] Falcone countershaft gearing
> To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Saturday, January 28, 2012, 1:43 PM
>
> Anybody out there have a spare 30 x 62 x 13  (SKF
> 99206) countershaft bearing or know of a source for this
> item? It is the missing piece that is preventing me from
> re-ssembling my Falcone engine. I ordered one from Locate
> Ball Bearings.com in Palm Desert, CA and they sent me a
> bearing very quickly. Trouble is that it was not even close
> to what I ordered. All attempts to get a response, a
> replacement or a refund have been unsuccessful. They have a
> great on-line site and filled my order quickly, but that was
> the end of it. I have a feeling that they fill their orders
> with whatever is on the top of a pile of surplus bearings
> and then ignore the complaints. It was not a lot of money to
> lose, but I feel obligated to spread the word that this
> outfit is not what it seems to be.
> Marksman in UK has a listing for this bearing and my order
> has been taken. If it does not arrive by mid February I may
> just go ahead and grind down 30 x 62 x 16. The old one is
> not serviceable.
> Regards, Alan in Vancouver

Alan Comfort

unread,
Jan 30, 2012, 9:10:05 PM1/30/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Jerry, The money was just sent by PayPal. No big hurry for the mail service with the bolts, I'm still waiting for the countershaft bearing from Stucchi and a few other bits.


DSC_0006.JPG

Alan Comfort

unread,
Jan 30, 2012, 9:22:33 PM1/30/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
I ordered one from Marksman a couple of weeks ago, but I have not heard back from them. I also ordered one from Stucchi, but they can be very slow. Peter's bearings in Germany have one as well. So there is hope. I may even end up with a spare if anyone needs one in the future.
Alan in Vancouver

Guzz...@aol.com

unread,
Jan 30, 2012, 9:26:26 PM1/30/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Alan,,,,,,,just a suggestion, you might reset your camera for a more manageable email size picture.
 
Tim 

Alan Comfort

unread,
Jan 31, 2012, 3:06:52 AM1/31/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
roger that, again. I have a good sense for the difference between 0.010" and 0.015"  but when it comes to megabytes and gigabytes I draw a blank. My son, on the other hand, does the computer stuff like breathing. If I ask him what jet size he is running in his Mikuni I get a blank stare in response. We both ride motorcycles and use computers. Go figure.
Alan in Vancouver

Rick

unread,
Jan 31, 2012, 10:30:56 AM1/31/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com

Hey now!

That some criticism from the submitter of poor focus. J

 

Rick Yamane

Motion Pro Inc.

We Ride! We Wrench! We Race!

867 American St.

San Carlos, CA 94070

(650)594-9600

(650)594-9610 Fax

ri...@motionpro.com

www.motionpro.com

 Browse our 2011 Interactive Digital Catalog

 


From: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:guzzi-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Guzz...@aol.com
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 6:26 PM
To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Falcone connecting rod bolts

 

Alan,,,,,,,just a suggestion, you might reset your camera for a more manageable email size picture.

--

Guzz...@aol.com

unread,
Jan 31, 2012, 12:09:02 PM1/31/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Ricky...........poor lighting and a shaky hand tends to make one out of focus. I can't blame it on the camera. Darn it............I was trying to be more focused on the procedure, :>)

Bill Burke

unread,
Feb 1, 2012, 9:58:08 AM2/1/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
The parachute cord holding the inner manicotto against the outer worked
well the next time I did it.
I still cant get to button off the pushrod. Im just going to put in a full
load of balls from McMaster Carr and a new copercio when it comes from
Guzzino. Also, when I offer the clutch cover up to the bike, the gasket
surfaces come together easily without compressing of any spring. Am I
missing something?
Bill


on 1/29/12 11:16 PM, Patrick Hayes at peh...@comcast.net wrote:

Patrick Hayes

unread,
Feb 1, 2012, 11:13:26 AM2/1/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com

On 2/1/2012 6:58 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
> Also, when I offer the clutch cover up to the bike, the gasket
> surfaces come together easily without compressing of any spring. Am I
> missing something?

Correct. It is just a cover to protect the chain and sprocket from road
debris and to protect you and the bike from slung grease and broken
chain bits. Essentially a dust cover, so no contact with the spring or
any internal bits. I wouldn't call this 'gasket surface' as there is no
need for a paper gasket or any compound of any type. Just put it up dry.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Alan Comfort

unread,
Mar 1, 2012, 9:53:06 PM3/1/12
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
I ordered a 30 x 62 x 13 bearing from Peter's about a month ago and it  arrived today. I ordered the same bearing from Marksman in the UK and they refunded my money after four weeks, at which time they told me their supplier could not deliver. I ordered the bearing from Stucchi and it arrived in less than a week and it is now resting happily in the case and spinning the countershaft in the way the maker intended. If you need a 30 x 62 x 13 open ball bearing, I have a spare that I will sell at cost.
Regards, Alan in Vancouver

On 2012-01-28, at 11:11 AM, Gordon de la Mare wrote:

Sadly Peters' Bearngs doesn't list that size but you could always ask.
You'll need produkt then kugellager probably after switching English on.
As Patrick says, Peter will grind to correct size.
Cheers
Gordon


From: Alan Comfort <alan.c...@gmail.com>
To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 28 January 2012, 18:59
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Falcone countershaft gearing

Thanks Patrick. I will keep looking.
On 2012-01-28, at 10:54 AM, Patrick Hayes wrote:




On 1/28/2012 10:43 AM, Alan Comfort wrote:
>
> Anybody out there have a spare 30 x 62 x 13  (SKF 99206) countershaft
> bearing or know of a source for this item?

It is my understanding that the 13mm bearings are no longer produced and therefor no longer available unless you stumble upon NOS.  I also understand that there is a firm in Germany which takes a 15mm bearing and precision grinds away 1mm from both sides so it becomes a 13.  It is called "Peter's Bearings" but I don't have any contact info.  I also understand that this unobtainium is not cheap, but I don't know the price.

I'm sure someone will chime in with the specific ordering and cost data.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Guzzi Singles" group.
To post to this group, send email to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to guzzi-singles+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/guzzi-singles?hl=en.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Guzzi Singles" group.
To post to this group, send email to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to guzzi-singles+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/guzzi-singles?hl=en.



Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages