http://home.comcast.net/~pehayes/pugliablog.html
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
| Great report! Charlie http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com --- On Sun, 1/15/12, Patrick Hayes <peh...@comcast.net> wrote: |
|
Great report!
Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
--- On Sun, 1/15/12, Patrick Hayes <peh...@comcast.net> wrote:
From: Patrick Hayes <peh...@comcast.net>
Subject: [guzzi-singles] Falcone Tour of Puglia
To: "Loopfra...@topica.com" <Loopfra...@yahoogroups.com>, "Guzzi Singles" <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>, "GB" <motoguzz...@yahoogroups.co.uk>
Date: Sunday, January 15, 2012, 6:42 PM
I just got too busy with life. This one took me a long time to assemble and publish. Enjoy!
http://home.comcast.net/~pehayes/pugliablog.html
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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http://home.comcast.net/~pehayes/pugliablog.html
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
--
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Rick Yamane
Motion Pro Inc.
We Ride! We Wrench! We Race!
867 American St.
San Carlos, CA 94070
(650)594-9610 Fax
-----Original Message-----
From: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:guzzi-...@googlegroups.com]
Subject: [guzzi-singles] Falcone Tour of Puglia
On 01/16/2012 07:31 AM, Rick wrote:
> and yeah, didn't you have a trip last year that involved a beauty pageant?
Same tour in 2010. I was able to post out a few pictures and stories
directly from Italy and that is what you remember. This current report
summarizes the complete tour. Normally I try to get the report out
within a few months of return. This one just simmered on the back burner.
I didn't go on the 2011 Tour of Bavaria. But, Gordon DelaMare did. I'm
trying to get him to compose the story. You can all chime in and
pressure him to do it.
:-)
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
On 1/28/2012 10:43 AM, Alan Comfort wrote:
>
> Anybody out there have a spare 30 x 62 x 13 (SKF 99206) countershaft
> bearing or know of a source for this item?
It is my understanding that the 13mm bearings are no longer produced and
therefor no longer available unless you stumble upon NOS. I also
understand that there is a firm in Germany which takes a 15mm bearing
and precision grinds away 1mm from both sides so it becomes a 13. It is
called "Peter's Bearings" but I don't have any contact info. I also
understand that this unobtainium is not cheap, but I don't know the price.
I'm sure someone will chime in with the specific ordering and cost data.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
--
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
--
I then found a bearing house here in Richmond, VA, and they had the Timken bearings I wanted. I will check with them on Monday and let you know about the SKF 99206
John Mead
--- On Sat, 1/28/12, Alan Comfort <alan.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
Stucchi Code CSC921136 cost is 42.96 euro or about US$56 plus shipping.
http://stucchiluigi.it/category.php?id_category=83&id_lang=1&orderby=price&orderway=desc&p=3
I have one I can send you on Monday if you want it - same price plus
shipping via USPS. Postage would be US$12.95 if you are in Canada via
flat rate priority. Probably cheaper in a padded envelope, though.
JerryK
http://stucchiluigi.it/category.php?id_category=83&id_lang=1&orderby=price&orderway=desc&p=3
JerryK
--
Alan, I'd rather keep it for the time being. I keep spares for the
engines that I rebuild for Guzzi folks so I'm not anxious to get rid of
critical parts. However, if Stucchi doesn't come up with anything for
you, get back to me. I'm super lucky that the last two engines I've
rebuilt haven't needed the transmission bearings. But most do. You
know that those narrow bearings for the tranny are different on each
side? One is 30x 62 x 13, the other is 33 x 66 x 13..
I've often thought of using a 6006 (30 x 55 x 13) and putting a bronze
sleeve around it. Seems like that might be better than grinding down a
15mm wide to 13mm.
Cheers,
JerryK
Cheers,
JerryK
--
With the pushrod screwed into the pressure plate on the bike, the pushrod throwout bearing, bottone (part # M 080) doesn’t come out of the pushrod easily. Will taking the pushrod out of the bike make it any easier?
The five remaining balls in my bottone don’t fall out of the track they run in. Resisting my efforts to take the bearing off the end of the pushrod, I am thinking of simply bringing the ball count back up to the full complement of eight. Anyone have any thoughts on this approach?
On 1/29/2012 9:08 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
Airone clutch throwout bearing. With the pushrod screwed into the pressure plate on the bike, the pushrod throwout bearing, bottone (part # M 080) doesn’t come out of the pushrod easily. Will taking the pushrod out of the bike make it any easier?
On 1/29/2012 9:08 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
> With the pushrod screwed into the pressure plate on the bike, the
> pushrod throwout bearing, /bottone/ (part # M 080) doesn�t come out of
> the pushrod easily. Will taking the pushrod out of the bike make it any
> easier?
STOP! Do NOT remove the rod. If you do, the far end pressure plate is
probably going to fall out of the clutch basket or at least its threaded
hole will fall out of alignment with the rod and you won't be able to
install. Even if you could avoid those errors, when you reinstall it,
there is a critical measurement of an exposed thread on the far end.
How are you going to observe that? If you remove the rod, you will HAVE
to remove the flywheel and clutch side cover to reassemble everything.
Your button is tight in? I wish. Both of mine are relatively loose.
And that isn't good.
Remove the aluminum cast clutch spring dome cover and access to the
button will be a lot better. I find they need relube every few hundred
miles and I can't get them to last for more than a year or two.
I see Jerry has commented on the ball groove, ball size and ball count.
Find someone who is ordering bits from Italy and have them include a
couple of spare buttons for you.
There are two critical measurements on the clutch system. First is the
exposed threading described above. Second is the compressed dimension
of the two concentric clutch pressure springs.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Thanks Jerry
The bearing should come off without removing it from the bike and without taking pressure off the spring?
Bill B
on 1/29/12 1:32 PM, Jerome Kimberlin at kimb...@comcast.net wrote:
On 1/29/2012 9:08 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
Airone clutch throwout bearing. With the pushrod screwed into the pressure plate on the bike, the pushrod throwout bearing, bottone (part # M 080) doesn’t come out of the pushrod easily. Will taking the pushrod out of the bike make it any easier?
What Tim said is correct. The button is just a friction fit and just a little pressure in the slots will let it come out.
The five remaining balls in my bottone don’t fall out of the track they run in. Resisting my efforts to take the bearing off the end of the pushrod, I am thinking of simply bringing the ball count back up to the full complement of eight. Anyone have any thoughts on this approach?
If the button is original, it may be that the pressure against it has flattened the lips of the bearing groove a little. However, it could be that someone put 1/8" balls in there - which allows only 7 balls to be inserted in the first place. The correct ball size is 3 mm and you can get 8 balls in there of that size. If you want to put the balls back in, it is probably better to put in all 8 of them new. The old 5 bearing balls will probably lift out with a little help from a tiny screwdriver.
Button lube should always be one of the Dow-Corning high pressure moly greases, or better. You can get the grease and the 3mm balls from McMaster-Carr if you have to mail order them.
JerryK
On 1/29/2012 9:08 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
> With the pushrod screwed into the pressure plate on the bike, the
> pushrod throwout bearing, /bottone/ (part # M 080) doesn’t come out of
> the pushrod easily. Will taking the pushrod out of the bike make it any
> easier?
STOP! Do NOT remove the rod. If you do, the far end pressure plate is
probably going to fall out of the clutch basket or at least its threaded
hole will fall out of alignment with the rod and you won't be able to
install. Even if you could avoid those errors, when you reinstall it,
there is a critical measurement of an exposed thread on the far end.
How are you going to observe that? If you remove the rod, you will HAVE
to remove the flywheel and clutch side cover to reassemble everything.
Your button is tight in? I wish. Both of mine are relatively loose.
And that isn't good.
Remove the aluminum cast clutch spring dome cover and access to the
button will be a lot better. I find they need relube every few hundred
miles and I can't get them to last for more than a year or two.
I see Jerry has commented on the ball groove, ball size and ball count.
Find someone who is ordering bits from Italy and have them include a
couple of spare buttons for you.
There are two critical measurements on the clutch system. First is the
exposed threading described above. Second is the compressed dimension
of the two concentric clutch pressure springs.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
On 1/29/2012 9:51 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
> Thanks Tim.
> In your picture, if I open the slot with a screwdriver, I am loosening
> the pushrods grip on the /bottone/? Ie, the slots are in the pushrod and
> the bottone is pressed into it?
That is correct. The button has a stem about the size of a pencil. The
push rod has a cup with a hole or recess of the same size. This cup has
the two lateral slits so that the cup can expand slightly to accept the
press of the button.
There is nothing about assembling
> the clutch spring and associated /manicotti/ that locks the /bottone/
> into the push rod when assembled?
The only critical thing is to realize that the manicotto has a backward
or left-handed thread. If you have these parts off, be very careful not
to push on the rod and perhaps push out clutch bits on the other side.
Install the springs over the manicotto. Now install the outer,knurled
adjusting knob. Hard to do because it immediately pushes on the
manicotto and knocks it out of align with the rod. Use a small
screwdriver. Reach in between the spring coils so you can push on the
back side of the manicotto and keep it levered or forced outward against
the rod. Now you can thread on the knurled adjusting knob (as long as
you remember which way to turn it.) Once you catch a thread or two you
can remove the screwdriver. Now, keep adjusting until you compress the
spring to the proper dimension. Not sure if that is the same for both
Airone and Falcone.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
On 1/29/2012 10:37 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
> Thanks Jerry
> The bearing should come off without removing it from the bike and
> without taking pressure off the spring?
Exactly. Remove the aluminum cover for more access.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
On 1/29/2012 11:29 AM, Guzz...@aol.com wrote:
> I can't remember where I saw it but I thought there is more than one
> size of button. I could be wrong??
At least the Ercole has a much larger button. Much more stout on
internal design and ball control as well. I'll take a pic and post
later. Some of my Italian friends use this larger button but it
requires boring out the hole of the aluminum dome cover. Not sure if I
want to go there as yet.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
on 1/29/12 2:24 PM, Patrick Hayes at peh...@comcast.net wrote:
>
>
> On 1/29/2012 9:08 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
>> With the pushrod screwed into the pressure plate on the bike, the
>> pushrod throwout bearing, /bottone/ (part # M 080) doesn¹t come out of
On 1/29/2012 2:07 PM, Bill Burke wrote:
> But what is
> the critical measurement when re installing the rod? I just replaced the
> clutch plates and screwed the pushrod into the pressure plate as far as I
> could and still rotate the small MANICOTTO to engage with the flats on the
> pushrod. It seems this allows the pressure plate to be moved enough to allow
> the plates to turn easily among themselves. Is there another measurement I
> should observe?
No go. If the pushrod sticks out too far at the threaded side, it won't
operate when the cover is placed on. It will hit the cover before full
release action. In fact, it might even punch a hole in the left side
cover as you bolt it down.
The restoration manuals for all models say that the rod is installed
with "1mm or one turn of thread" exposed outside the plate. No more.
BTW, when you install the left side cover, you're going to have to press
against the crank gear and the heavy spring behind that gear. Have to
in order to get the plate flush. If you try to use the plate's
perimeter screws, you risk stripping out the holes quite easily. Better
to have four hands here. One person pushes in the plate and holds it
flush to the case while the other person quickly inserts the screws and
threads them home.
If you have no second person to help, you can make a little pressure
plate to do the squeezing for you. (You do have a lathe don't you?)
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/tool/MVC-744X.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/tool/MVC-745X.jpg
The center bore fits the crank. The step section fits the ID of the
hole in the sidecover. Use the crank bolt by hand to pull the cover
into position.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
JerryK
I can't remember where I saw it but I thought there is more than one size of button. I could be wrong??
On 1/29/2012 4:12 PM, Bill Burke wrote:
> Once again I am grateful for the depth of information in this group.
> I screwed the pushrod all the way in and a little more than one thread and
> the rounded end of the pushrod protrudes from the pressure plate, maybe 2.75
> mm. so the number of threads obeys the book but the shape of the rod makes a
> contradiction.
Direct from the SuperAlce manual, the assembly instruction is:
L'asta comando frizione deve avvitarsi sul piattello spingi dischi in
modo che sporga per circa un filetto.
My translation software says:
The clutch control rod must screw on the pressure plate disc so that it
sticks out for around a thread.
Would be nice to have a protrusion measurement rather than a thread
count. The rod is thread 6mm X 1.0mm pitch.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Compare with the oversized Ercole clutch button on the left.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-312X.jpg
Note the brass carrier plate which holds the balls in relative position
regardless of their wear.
Those Ercole drivers sure have big balls!!!!
Gordon, you can step in any time now.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
I was torqueing them gradually in 5 ft/lb increments to 28 when one let go at 20...aaarrrrgh. I am presently using the old ones to keep it together, but they have an unknown history. A few dollars today might save thousands tomorrow.
I will be ever so grateful if you would put two in a padded envelope and send them to:
Alan Comfort
4306 Atlin Street
Vancouver, BC
V5R 2C2
Canada
I will post a cheque for $30 to your address on Monday if you send that to me off line. I am thinking that $5.00 should cover the postage. (assuming that you are in the USA)
Regards, Alan in Vancouver
JerryK
--
Alan,
Good thing it failed on the bench rather than at 3K RPM!
|
|
|
|
On 1/29/2012 7:41 PM, Bill Burke wrote:
> As mine sits now, there are 3.5 threads protruding.
> The pretty flat end of the pushrod is protruding 2.7 +/- mm.
> The manicotti and molla and the molla must come off to make it right.
No, only the knurled, external adjusting disc and the two concentric
coil springs behind it have to come off (actually, not even the springs,
but they'll just fall off anyway). The manicotto will slide inward to
disengage its registry with the outer cup end of the push rod. Then,
you can tighten or loosen the adjusting rod as necessary to get the
proper distal end one-thread exposure. Afterwards, pull the manicotto
back outwards to re-engage the push rod so that it can no longer turn.
The manicotto is prevented from turning because it has an internal bore
slot and the tip of the clutch shaft has a key nub machined or welded to it.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
JerryK
J. Kimberlin
PO Box 70333
Richmond, CA
94807-0333 USA
Let's hope for speedy delivery.
Cheers,
JerryK
However, one of the office people came out with a internet listing that showed that Marksman Industrial Ltd, in the UK has them. Their price is 45GBP. Site is http://marksman-ind.com
I also stopped by the machine shop I use and the owner said he has narrowed bearings on a magnetic surface grinder and 2mm is not a whole lot.
John Mead
--- On Sat, 1/28/12, Alan Comfort <alan.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Alan Comfort <alan.c...@gmail.com>
> Subject: [guzzi-singles] Falcone countershaft gearing
> To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Saturday, January 28, 2012, 1:43 PM
>
> Anybody out there have a spare 30 x 62 x 13 (SKF
> 99206) countershaft bearing or know of a source for this
> item? It is the missing piece that is preventing me from
> re-ssembling my Falcone engine. I ordered one from Locate
> Ball Bearings.com in Palm Desert, CA and they sent me a
> bearing very quickly. Trouble is that it was not even close
> to what I ordered. All attempts to get a response, a
> replacement or a refund have been unsuccessful. They have a
> great on-line site and filled my order quickly, but that was
> the end of it. I have a feeling that they fill their orders
> with whatever is on the top of a pile of surplus bearings
> and then ignore the complaints. It was not a lot of money to
> lose, but I feel obligated to spread the word that this
> outfit is not what it seems to be.
> Marksman in UK has a listing for this bearing and my order
> has been taken. If it does not arrive by mid February I may
> just go ahead and grind down 30 x 62 x 16. The old one is
> not serviceable.
> Regards, Alan in Vancouver
Hey now!
That some criticism from the submitter of poor focus. J
Rick Yamane
Motion Pro Inc.
We Ride! We Wrench! We Race!
867 American St.
San Carlos, CA 94070
(650)594-9610 Fax
From:
guzzi-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:guzzi-...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Guzz...@aol.com
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 6:26 PM
To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Falcone connecting rod bolts
Alan,,,,,,,just a suggestion, you might reset your camera for a more manageable email size picture.
on 1/29/12 11:16 PM, Patrick Hayes at peh...@comcast.net wrote:
On 2/1/2012 6:58 AM, Bill Burke wrote:
> Also, when I offer the clutch cover up to the bike, the gasket
> surfaces come together easily without compressing of any spring. Am I
> missing something?
Correct. It is just a cover to protect the chain and sprocket from road
debris and to protect you and the bike from slung grease and broken
chain bits. Essentially a dust cover, so no contact with the spring or
any internal bits. I wouldn't call this 'gasket surface' as there is no
need for a paper gasket or any compound of any type. Just put it up dry.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA