new guy with questions

[Turboguzzi]

Hello everyone, 

I have been a lurker here for a while, but also had some helpful info from Patrick

I am an expat based in Milan, an hour away from Mandello, so might seem odd that i am joining an english forum, but have found very little online communities for singles in italian.

im 63, long 45 yrs love story with bikes, restorations, race bike building, vintage racing.

Among my bikes, have a 83' SP and 81' Le Mans, but always wanted also a Falcone.

Came across one recently, at an attractive price, but not sure what to make out of the frame and engine numbers. they are FAV10 for the frame and FAU10 for the engine.

Doesnt fit with all i read about Falcone Turisno or Sport numbers.

What are the masters thinking? 

thanks in advance!

[pouma1954]

Welcome.

Piaggio have a paying dating service 

Paul

Envoyé depuis mon appareil Galaxy

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Date : 28/10/2025 17:22 (GMT+01:00)

À : Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>

Objet : [guzzi-singles] new guy with questions

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[RICHARD YAMANE]

Even the factory dating service can be off the mark.

Before I bought my GTV from Jerry he had run the numbers on the bikes he had picked up. The frame on the bike I bought came back as a GT17 which it clearly is not. Jerry and I talked about it for a bit when I picked the bike up and once I got home I compared the GT17 and GTV in the Columbo book confirming the frame model as a GTV/GTW.

Rick Yamane
Importer of Vape/Powerdynamo ignition systems and Polisher of bikes at Motion Pro

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[Turboguzzi]

Hello Paul, I am aware of the dating service but the date of mfg and place where it was sold is not what I'm after. 
Not to mention the outrageous price they are charging. 

The info I'm seeking is if there's any familiar info in the fav and fau letters.

The presence of the A makes me think Amministrazione Pubblica, i.e. carabinieri, polizia, etc.

Was hoping someone could shed some light on this 

[Alan Comfort]

Welcome to the group. If you  are buying the bike to use and enjoy, who cares about the numbers? In my view, the more important things are related to condition. The frame, sheet metal and hardware are the most important considerations in my humble opinion. Engines, gear boxes carburetors and magnetos can be relatively easy to repair. A rusted out frame, bent forks, crunched fuel tank, missing fenders and such like can offer significant challenges. Cosmetic issues such as plating, polishing and paintwork can be done to whatever level (and cost) that suit you.

All that being said, and my apologies for the rant, buy the best bike that you can afford then ride the wheels off it, park it in your office, take it to events or whatever you like. Avoid the "barn finds", abandoned projects and boxes of parts unless you have unlimited time, excess money and a large space to work.

Alan in Roberts Creek

[Turboguzzi]

Hi Alan, 

sacred words... I restored piles of junk into concours, so know exactly what you mean,

the reason its of interest to me is that at least here in italy, pricing goes very hand in hand with pedigree.... a proper FS prefix Falcone Sport is one price point, a Turismo another, civilized ex-police, army, etc, another lower yet.

Im totaly ok with buying a non ten point bike to ride, but it has to be priced accordingly 

Then there is also my curiosity of course! 

one of the piles of junk i transformed

[Rick Yamane]

Chris’s ’51 Sport is a “F” followed by 5 digits for both the engine and frame. Not matching but both were said to be original to the unrestored bike.
If you attempted a photo of the Guzzi, it didn’t make it to me.

 

Rick

 

From: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Turboguzzi
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 11:27 AM
To: Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] new guy with questions

 

here's the bride,

it has all the right external sport parts, 29SS carb, toe brake pedal, sport gear linkage and more, but is it a true one or a "sport-ized" pubblic service "PA" bike?

Sure, wont matter one bit when i ride it, only what im going to pay for it :) 

 

On Tuesday, October 28, 2025 at 7:14:04 PM UTC+1 Turboguzzi wrote:

Hi Alan, 

 

sacred words... I restored piles of junk into concours, so know exactly what you mean,

the reason its of interest to me is that at least here in italy, pricing goes very hand in hand with pedigree.... a proper FS prefix Falcone Sport is one price point, a Turismo another, civilized ex-police, army, etc, another lower yet.

Im totaly ok with buying a non ten point bike to ride, but it has to be priced accordingly 

Then there is also my curiosity of course! 

one of the piles of junk i transformed

On Tuesday, October 28, 2025 at 6:20:53 PM UTC+1 Alan in Vancouver wrote:

Welcome to the group. If you  are buying the bike to use and enjoy, who cares about the numbers? In my view, the more important things are related to condition. The frame, sheet metal and hardware are the most important considerations in my humble opinion. Engines, gear boxes carburetors and magnetos can be relatively easy to repair. A rusted out frame, bent forks, crunched fuel tank, missing fenders and such like can offer significant challenges. Cosmetic issues such as plating, polishing and paintwork can be done to whatever level (and cost) that suit you.

All that being said, and my apologies for the rant, buy the best bike that you can afford then ride the wheels off it, park it in your office, take it to events or whatever you like. Avoid the "barn finds", abandoned projects and boxes of parts unless you have unlimited time, excess money and a large space to work.

Alan in Roberts Creek

 

 

On Tue, Oct 28, 2025 at 9:22 AM Turboguzzi <sch...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello everyone, 

 

I have been a lurker here for a while, but also had some helpful info from Patrick

 

I am an expat based in Milan, an hour away from Mandello, so might seem odd that i am joining an english forum, but have found very little online communities for singles in italian.

 

im 63, long 45 yrs love story with bikes, restorations, race bike building, vintage racing.

 

Among my bikes, have a 83' SP and 81' Le Mans, but always wanted also a Falcone.

 

Came across one recently, at an attractive price, but not sure what to make out of the frame and engine numbers. they are FAV10 for the frame and FAU10 for the engine.

 

Doesnt fit with all i read about Falcone Turisno or Sport numbers.

 

What are the masters thinking? 

 

thanks in advance!

 

 

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[Turboguzzi]

so here the bride

on the outside, all the right Sport parts. ss29 carb, toe rear brake, sport gear linkage, sport silencer, leather front seat cushion and more, no idea about inside of engine, 

but are the FAV and FAU prefixes right?  Is it original or a Sport-ized bike, around here its a X2 price factor

people selling it inherited it from a dead cousin, know nothing about the bike, 

On Tuesday, October 28, 2025 at 7:14:04 PM UTC+1 Turboguzzi wrote:

[pouma1954]

Same situation in the UK particularly where matching numbers and pedigree account for 20% of some prices.

They all ride just as well. Or badly.

Paul

Envoyé depuis mon appareil Galaxy

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Date : 28/10/2025 19:14 (GMT+01:00)

À : Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>

Objet : Re: [guzzi-singles] new guy with questions

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[pouma1954]

Nor I.

Envoyé depuis mon appareil Galaxy

-------- Message d'origine --------

De : Rick Yamane <ri...@motionpro.com>

Date : 28/10/2025 19:41 (GMT+01:00)

À : guzzi-...@googlegroups.com

Objet : RE: [guzzi-singles] new guy with questions

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[Rick Yamane]

Differences I can see,
The main one that sheds doubt is the oil tank. This one lacks the round chrome dome on the end. Not sure if all the Sports were supposed to have that or not.

Chris’ bike also has chrome trim covers on the forks where the fender braces attach and the chrome panels on the fuel tank. He also has a speedometer.

 

From: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Turboguzzi
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2025 12:43 PM
To: Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] new guy with questions

 

so here the bride

 

on the outside, all the right Sport parts. ss29 carb, toe rear brake, sport gear linkage, sport silencer, leather front seat cushion and more, no idea about inside of engine, 

 

but are the FAV and FAU prefixes right?  Is it original or a Sport-ized bike, around here its a X2 price factor

 

people selling it inherited it from a dead cousin, know nothing about the bike, 

 

 

 

 

On Tuesday, October 28, 2025 at 7:14:04 PM UTC+1 Turboguzzi wrote:

Hi Alan, 

 

sacred words... I restored piles of junk into concours, so know exactly what you mean,

the reason its of interest to me is that at least here in italy, pricing goes very hand in hand with pedigree.... a proper FS prefix Falcone Sport is one price point, a Turismo another, civilized ex-police, army, etc, another lower yet.

Im totaly ok with buying a non ten point bike to ride, but it has to be priced accordingly 

Then there is also my curiosity of course! 

one of the piles of junk i transformed

On Tuesday, October 28, 2025 at 6:20:53 PM UTC+1 Alan in Vancouver wrote:

Welcome to the group. If you  are buying the bike to use and enjoy, who cares about the numbers? In my view, the more important things are related to condition. The frame, sheet metal and hardware are the most important considerations in my humble opinion. Engines, gear boxes carburetors and magnetos can be relatively easy to repair. A rusted out frame, bent forks, crunched fuel tank, missing fenders and such like can offer significant challenges. Cosmetic issues such as plating, polishing and paintwork can be done to whatever level (and cost) that suit you.

All that being said, and my apologies for the rant, buy the best bike that you can afford then ride the wheels off it, park it in your office, take it to events or whatever you like. Avoid the "barn finds", abandoned projects and boxes of parts unless you have unlimited time, excess money and a large space to work.

Alan in Roberts Creek

 

 

On Tue, Oct 28, 2025 at 9:22 AM Turboguzzi <sch...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello everyone, 

 

I have been a lurker here for a while, but also had some helpful info from Patrick

 

I am an expat based in Milan, an hour away from Mandello, so might seem odd that i am joining an english forum, but have found very little online communities for singles in italian.

 

im 63, long 45 yrs love story with bikes, restorations, race bike building, vintage racing.

 

Among my bikes, have a 83' SP and 81' Le Mans, but always wanted also a Falcone.

 

Came across one recently, at an attractive price, but not sure what to make out of the frame and engine numbers. they are FAV10 for the frame and FAU10 for the engine.

 

Doesnt fit with all i read about Falcone Turisno or Sport numbers.

 

What are the masters thinking? 

 

thanks in advance!

 

 

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[Alan Comfort]

Hello TurboGuzzi,

It looks like you have been around the old bike scene for a while. Your Norton is a thing of beauty. I did pretty much the same thing to a '38 Velocette a few years ago. It is still going strong (and still leaking oil).The only trouble is that it is worth less now than it was 15 years ago but I still ride it regularly.I am definitely not in it for the money. As they say: "there is a small fortune in old bikes, but you have to start with a large fortune".

I was looking through the classified ads in a stack of old MG magazines that someone gave me a a few days ago. The prices for a TC in 1980 is just about the same as mine is worth today, and that was real money in 1980.

Ciao, Alan

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[Alan Comfort]

Looks OK from here. But like they say: "five hundred Falcone Sports left the factory and there are only one thousand left". Apart from the numbers questions, look for evidence of lowered headlight ears, jiggery pokery arounf=d the foot rests and toe operatet brake lever and cam timing for evidence of a lash up.

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[Gordon de la Mare]

The chrome dome on the oil tank was only on the orginal Sports that were 1950 and 1951 with a couple of early 1952 models thrown in.
Then those were not called Falcone Sports but just Falcones.  
They became Falcone Sports when the Tourismo models were introduced in 1952.
The original Falcones had 25mm diam handlebars like the Condor, Dondolino and GTC/L.  

They changed to 22mm when the Tourismo came along.
The 25mm bars can be retrofitted.

It does look like a Sport - the position of the headlight brackets are so you can't put a siren on there like they made available for police Toursimos.

To be honest the only way to verify frame and engine numbers is to get an expensive certificate from the factory.

I have not seen FAV or FAU prefixes but that doesn't mean that they are right or wrong - just not like mine.  
Both my sports begin wth just an F then two numbers and then two letters.
Others may have different serials.

Have you checked all possible locations for engine numbers?
You may find numbers stamped on the inside of the flywheel and you should find the matching engine number also stamped on the front lower flat bit of the crankcase on the timing cover side.

The phase YMMV comes to mind.

Falcone Turismo vs. Sport - Singles and pre-loop frame models - Moto Guzzi - Technical information - Gregory Bender

Falcone Turismo vs. Sport - Singles and pre-loop frame models - Moto Guz... Falcone Turismo vs. Sport Singles and pre-loop frame models Moto Guzzi Technical information on Gregory Bender's...

Also read the Colombo articel translated into English on Greg's page.

Best of luck!
Gordon

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[Turboguzzi]

The bike is 200 miles away,  so at the moment I can only ask the seller for pictures. 

The frame number is stamped  in the usual place,  the engine number is stamped under the timing cover  on the right side crankcase casting.  Timing cover is blank,  but have to say that I've seen a few blank covers in my research. 

My take away atm is it's a sportized turismo, 

Just  out of curiosity would be great to see what the factory report that costs 200 euros or so gives you.

If anyone here did it it'd be great to know.  

Then of course there's the million dollar question if 6500 is realistic sum to pay in the depressed classic bike market. )

[RICHARD YAMANE]

If you have to ask this question then I would say this is not the bike for you.
If it's a million euro question then it changes. 
In USD I'd be making the 200 mile drive instead of talking about it, except I have no fewer than 5 bikes in the workplace shop and one still to pick up with maybe space to cram one in my own garage. Luckily I have a very gracious and understanding employer.

Rick Yamane
Importer of Vape/Powerdynamo ignition systems and Polisher of bikes at Motion Pro

[guzz...@aol.com]

an internal inspection of the valve train might help looking for sport specs ........

Tim

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/guzzi-singles/CAC8DhY1BnryZ_09Lzc2p4LW5kwCy1-1ho7XYSEzwiAq0ANmryw%40mail.gmail.com.

[guzz...@aol.com]

Last month a friend of mine sold his beautifully restored Falcone Sport at the Davenport Iowa Antique swap meet for $18,000 USD

Tim

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[Mike Peavey]

Rick, 

I bought a 1933 GT17  while in Italy last October, arriving in the US in April this year, the frame#/Vin is four digits, documents show it was repainted in 1946 and looks it, I plan to keep it as is. I did 90+ miles on it on a Tiddler ride one day this summer, it ran great.

Here’s a photo of my 3 Italian friends who were present for the purchase… they talked me into it, 2 ride Sport 15’s and the other a GT16, how could I resist. 

Mike Peavey

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[RICHARD YAMANE]

Nice patina'd but clean looking bike Mike. 

 

Rick Yamane
Importer of Vape/Powerdynamo ignition systems and Polisher of bikes at Motion Pro

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/guzzi-singles/31C12E2F-7D1F-4DA3-93E6-297C37B568C1%40me.com.

[pouma1954]

Not everyone is nuts.

Paul

Envoyé depuis mon appareil Galaxy

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Date : 29/10/2025 16:52 (GMT+01:00)

À : 'RICHARD YAMANE' via Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>

Objet : Re: [guzzi-singles] new guy with questions

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[Alan Comfort]

BEEYOOTEEFUL! A restoration of this bike would be vandalism.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/guzzi-singles/31C12E2F-7D1F-4DA3-93E6-297C37B568C1%40me.com.

[Rick Yamane]

I may have shared this photo of my GTV already. It was from the meet up for the Rigid Ride this past spring. Similar angle.

Get Outlook for iOS

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From: 'Mike Peavey' via Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2025 9:23:35 AM
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Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] new guy with questions

 

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[John Beldock]

My two cents...  because it's been fun to read all of these comments.  And I'm more of a lurker myself too, sorry.

I'm going to second Alan's comments FOR SURE.

If I recall from the thread correctly, the ask on this bike is around €6k. If it's a runner, that ain't a horrible deal for a bike that is solid but could use love.
As a guy with plenty of cool vintage motorcycles, with a bunch being old Guzzis (one of my daily's is Falcone Sport), I pretty much have never purchased a vintage bike thinking about resale or value.  The ultimate value always lies in my eye and in my heart.

Not that we're made of money but if you gave a couple grand more for something that makes you smile, wouldn't that be a steal?

Just like buying art, if you love it, buy it.  Once it's yours, you can look at it and ride it around and be so happy because it lives in your garage.

And back to cost, because once I'm talking I don't stop...  I can't tell you exactly what I gave for my Falcone or most of the others I have for that matter, but I can tell you exactly how much pure joy each has brought me. 

p.s. If your dog was sick and the vet wanted $3k, you'd fork it over in a second...   just sayin'

[guzz...@aol.com]

2x,,,,, what John said !!

Tim

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[Dave Knaack]

Absolutely!!! 

Sometimes the price is WAY out in left field and a guy still has to be smart about a purchase. But, a few thousand dollars one way or another just isn’t that big of a deal in today’s world.  Happiness is priceless!! 

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 30, 2025, at 8:21 AM, 'guzz...@aol.com' via Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[Rick Yamane]

The thought I picked out of the OP’s question is that he is more concerned about the genuiness (is that a word?) of the bike.  Is it an actual Sport or is it a Sporterized Turismo?  Those of you familiar with Ducati Bevelheads will know the confusion that will erupt with all the “fakes” that were built. Ducati’s are worse because of their disrespect for any real numbering system that could have been setup to delineate models. Many 750GT’s were upgraded to 750 Sport spec and many were built into 750SS with or without addition of the desmo heads. At this point it is near impossible to determine what is what, there were never any accurate factory records.
Granted, it would be nice to find out what the “FAV” and “FAU” actually mean, if anything.

At 6000 USD I would still think the bike is a real deal. If 6000 Eur, less so but still a very decent buy, assuming it runs. Like John says, if it tugs at the heart buy it. Who really cares what it is if the owner likes it. One thing for sure, if it is a conversion, it was a well loved bike. Not everyone would go through the pains and labor of building a replica simply for the value and avoid doing a full restoration.

The other part of the equation is, although Falcones are not supremely rare they are scarce enough that it may be years before a bike of similar qualities comes along. At 63 do you really want to wait? I’m 70 and just a few years ago bought a dream bike. A Matchless G85CS. Alas, I’m beyond my prime to enjoy it and race it. I spent 20 years looking for a Ducati 750F1 and about 7 years looking for a Mazzilli but I was much younger then and got to ride them and enjoy them.

 

Choose well,

Rick

 

From: 'guzz...@aol.com' via Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2025 8:21 AM
To: 'John Beldock' via Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Re: new guy with questions

 

2x,,,,, what John said !!

 

Tim

 

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[pouma1954]

Of course and I hope that many of us buy bikes for the pleasure they bring and not their resale value. That's my case and I cover 10 000 km a year on my old machines.

But, comes the day you want to sell to buy another bike because your pockets aren't bottomless.

That's my case at the moment. 

If any body wants to buy an as new 750 SFC too radical for me to ride now, so as I can finance a Vincent twin, you can find me here.

Very sorry for wandering off subject.

Paul

Envoyé depuis mon appareil Galaxy

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Date : 30/10/2025 17:01 (GMT+01:00)

À : guzzi-...@googlegroups.com

Objet : RE: [guzzi-singles] Re: new guy with questions

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[ksteenst]

I got a birth certificate for my Airone (and my Lemans). It comes in a nice hardback folder and shows the model, date of manufacture and dealer delivery.

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[Turboguzzi]

Thanks Rick, I think you caught my intention best. 

Like anyone on here, all I wanted to know WHAT this bike is and its history according to those FAV / FAU numbers...

As always in forums, wonderful discussions follow :)

This bike was imported at one point to Germany, restored and registered there and then, the late last owner re-imported it to italy and registered it here with a new number plate. If it was an italian bike, i could get a perfect history of the bike down to the dealership from the ministry of transport, but not in this case. For my 1955 NSU Max i was able to have document copies from it being sold by the importer (Vok in Venice) through the seven previous owners, including their names and addresses. Wonderful.

The latest bit of info is that going by some FB posts i found, a FAV number means it's definitely a military model from around 1958-1960, so it all points to a "Sport-ized" military bike. Not a showstopper, but doesnt make me fall in love either. I think im no different to other people here is aspiring to work on non molested "virgin" bikes.

Also take into account that in italy we are a bit spoiled by having at any given time dozens of Falcones on sale. Have a look, dont let that impress you too much, many of them have been listed 8-10 months ago or more, so really not many buyers out there like in other classic bike markets.

So at this point in time, this transformed ex-military bike seems less appealing, at least to me, even at 6.5K. The fact that it has been on sale since February means that others feel the same. So its not the Falcone I wanted. 

Thank you for all your help so far! 

[Turboguzzi]

https://www.subito.it/annunci-italia/vendita/moto-e-scooter/?q=falcone&order=yeardesc&bb=000045&bm=004870&ye=1960

[RICHARD YAMANE]

My FB account got shut down for some unknown reason so I only have the few email lists and forums to chat on. Does it show? Lol

Im a little surprised no one had info on the number prefixes.

I get it, if you want a real Falcone, a replica just won’t do. As a dealer once told me “It’s your money, spend it on what you want”.

Rick Yamane
Importer of Vape/Powerdynamo ignition systems and Polisher of bikes at Motion Pro

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/guzzi-singles/c8f46fa7-1c90-4f7e-bfae-ed9bb5a66e72n%40googlegroups.com.

[Patrick Hayes]

On 11/1/25 13:33, Turboguzzi wrote:
> This bike was imported at one point to Germany, restored and registered
> there and then, the late last owner re-imported it to italy and
> registered it here with a new number plate.

I wonder if that might be a hint at the rare number prefixes. Did the
German's re-stamp it to meet their system? Do the letters seem to align
precisely with the numbers as to font, size, spacing, etc.? Could an
Italy letter be stamped over to create another letter? Like "L" easily
becomes "E". You might find some German contact person who has vintage
moto knowledge.

Did the Italians re-stamp it when it came back??

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Turboguzzi]

FWIW, two older members in the anima guzzista forum were surprised that codes with 3 letters at the front even exist.... Only a rather young mechanic that inherited a Guzzi office in Pavia said its surely military, then i found that FB post confirming this. 

PS - In my vintage racing days used to know a Gpz550 guy who worked in Motion Pro, I think Corey was his name. Say hello to him from turboguzzi :) 

[RICHARD YAMANE]

The Italians also seem to always bracket the numbers with stars too.

Rick Yamane
Importer of Vape/Powerdynamo ignition systems and Polisher of bikes at Motion Pro

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[Turboguzzi]

frame had only a star in front, engine had two

[RICHARD YAMANE]

I know Corey. He and his wife moved to NV. I should give him a ping. Pretty sure he still has his GPz. 

Rick Yamane
Importer of Vape/Powerdynamo ignition systems and Polisher of bikes at Motion Pro

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/guzzi-singles/6f380145-edef-4dd8-9cec-fffa0c2f55c7n%40googlegroups.com.

[guzz...@aol.com]

Years ago when I bought my Falcone from a German gentlemen who has or had a bike museum in Daytona Beach he had just imported an Airone & the Falcone to sell from Germany and had them on display in the museum. He wanted to sell them as a pair. Both bikes had a new ID plate stamped by the Germans fixed on the bike. The factory frame & engine numbers are not altered and the engine number is stamped on the new ID plate.

 The Airone was a Sport model for sure, and the Falcone was labeled also as a sport but clearly was not. I couldn't afford them both I just wanted the Falcone. I learned later that evening another guy just wanted the Airone so together we talked to the seller to do the sale. However, I had to do a lot of talking to convince the seller that the Falcone wasn't a sport to get the price down. Which eventually happened

Tim

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