My SuperAlce

[George Smith Located Norfolk UK]

Having discovered why I had great difficulty starting my,  new to me, 1956 SuperAlce I have been riding it covering some 200 miles of enjoyment without the 'will it - won't it' start. I realised that when making and fitting a new throttle cable I neglected to check slide and choke positions. The slide was to low and the choke was to high. After adjustments it is now an easy starter. The only thing spoiling things are the excessive oil leaks and would welcome any advice. 

1) My first thoughts were maybe a blocked breather, the steel ball is not sticking. The breather pipe into the oil tank is only 4mm ID and this seems small for a 500 single. Is this the correct size? 

2) The worst leak is around the front chain sprocket. Can I block the chain oiler hole without causing breather problems. If it proves to be the felt seal leaking can this be changed outside the crankcases or will they have to be split. 

3) oil leaks at the front could be from therocker cover causing oil on the head and barrel when riding. On first stopping there is an embrassing amount of oil dripping on the floor. After a while this stops which tells me that oil pump is scavenging leaving a dry sump. As this is my first experience with the horizontal singles any comments would be welcome. Sorry for the long post. 

[jerry atric]

Hi George, as no one better informed has chimed in, I'll offer my two penneth worth. I tried sealing the rocker box but it's reliant on felt seals which don't really seem to cope with the oil supplied by that little pipe. I don't know if the next guy did anything  but I suspect it's almost lost cause. After all its 60-odd years old.😂 As owner of British bikes I decided to be philosophical and live with it, at least you know the oils getting  to the rockers!

The return pipe is correct and it had a good return, better than the other three I have owned so I wouldn't worry on that score.

I have read that yes, you can block that chain lubing vent. As I remember, it results in that excess oil going into the clutch housing so you have two be aware to drain it from the screw at the bottom every so often. Whilst the chain oiling is very good, it goes all up the back of your jacket, which isn't so good. I don't know so can't comment on the felt seal there.

Patrick, who I think runs the group is the man to ask. Maybe he's away?

[George Smith Located Norfolk UK]

Hi Cris

 Thanks for the reply. My biggest concern is the amount of oil coming from thr chain oiler. As you say the oil goes everywhere so I might look into blocking it later on in the year. I want to enjoy the rest of the summer riding it.

 It is not the oil return pipe I was commenting on as there is a good return supply. There is a copper  4mm bore pipe at the rear of the oil return that I believe is the breather pipe from the crankcase via the steel ball outlet and this seems very small for a crankcase breather, My 200cc Ducati Elite has a 15mm breather.

I think I will wait for any other comments and hope Patrick can give me some words of wisdom.

I have already decided to live with the rocker cover area leaks, I think the bike has identified as a British bike.

[Patrick Hughes]

Hi George, l had the same problem with chain oiling on my Falcone, the Falcone is basically the same (Guzzi did not change things much through the years). I blocked the hole by tapping it 6mm and fitting an allen screw with Loctite on it.

I have also fitted lip seals when I had the engine stripped so no oil goes into the clutch housing. I do add a few drops of oil every now and then to lubricate the primary gears and it seems to be ok. I also flush the clutch with diesel fuel every so often I have run it like that for 10 years - not massive miles but enough to say it is OK. These old engines are tough

Patrick in the UK

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From: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of jerry atric <baconsl...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2026 20:36:55
To: Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [guzzi-singles] Re: My SuperAlce

 

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[George Smith]

Thanks for the reply Patrick.

The parts manual is not very clear, do I have to remove much to get to the chain oiler hole which I am guessing is above the front chain sprocket.

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From: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Patrick Hughes <patrick...@harmill.co.uk>
Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2026 21:21:35
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Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Re: My SuperAlce

 

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[Patrick Hayes]

On 7/26/26 13:21, Patrick Hughes wrote:
> Patrick, who I think runs the group is the man to ask. Maybe he's away?

I was traveling quite a bit for nearly two months.
(Always remember, Patrick HUGHES is in the UK while Patrick HAYES is in
California.)

Regarding the chain oiler. Yes, it can and should be plugged. Modern
spray chain lubes are much more practical. I plugged mine when I had
the flywheel, left cover, and clutch bits removed. I believe the larger
clutch basket gear obstructs and limits direct access to the hole. I
just drilled a little, threaded it, and used a flush grub screw. It
'could' be done on the right side. There is a casting lug with a hole
drilled from below which intersects the main crossing hole. That is the
oiler drain. That could be tapped and plugged. Likely with the chain
and front sprocket out of the way. On a simple or temporary basis I'd
guess you could use a cotton swab to fastidiously clean the drain hole
and plug it with some silicone sealant or such. You'll be permanently
blocking in the future anyway. I don't have a pic of such. Perhaps
someone has a chain and pinion removed or an entire engine split.

Regarding the breather pipe. Its just moving air with occasional oil
mist. I doubt the pipe ID has any effect.

Regarding the rocker box seals. Jerry Kimberlin had modified his GTW
rocker box to use modern, rubber lip seals. His machining skills are
waaayyy beyond mine. I think part of the rocker box seal issue has to
do with the wear of the rocker shaft and the internal bronze bushings.
any wear to either part allows the rocker shaft to wobble about under
loading/unloading. That action, no matter how small, likely stresses
the ID of the felt seals and exacerbates the leakage. The early version
rocker boxes did NOT have any supplemental oil. Any oil supply to the
rockers came as mist sucked up via the long pushrod tube. Later version
rocker boxes have a small diameter feed pipe draining oil from the
scavenge return line junction.



--
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Falcone-NT and SuperAlce
www.motohayes.com

[RogerRowland]

Hi George,

                     Falcone, similar the same ? Primary case blocked oil feed to sprocket. While doing this discovered a hole near drive sprocket direct to floor?  Apparently in the riders handbook which I don’t have you are supposed to drain the oil weekly excess oil goes to chain then out this hole ? Found loads of other oil leak issues not exactly clear how a felt seal “works”. I remember a Commando primary case had an oval hole to facilitate chain tension and a similar device , that worked well. In Uk send E mail I’ll send contact details. 

    

        Regards Roger Gloucester  

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On 26 Jul 2026, at 21:28, George Smith <george...@outlook.com> wrote:



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[George Smith Located Norfolk UK]

Hi Roger

The Falcone engine is an improved version of the Superalce, main differences Superalce detuned for military use, low CR  lower gearing (crash gears) exposed valve springs and kickstart on the right. I believe that the primary gears have oil mist lubrication from breather and the drain screw below flywheel is to remove excess as you say. I drained this when I first bought it and cleaned clutch. Drained again this morning after 200 miles and less than a table spoon came out.

I think blocking chain oiler hole will be benifical and intend to attempt this later in the year. The housing that covers sprocket and contains clutch rod will have to come off before I can get access, wondering if I will also have to remove kickstart and chain sprockets to get to oil hole. I seem to recollect that I have to be careful not to disturb clutch rod or could end up having to remove flywheel etc. to put clutch back together. I might be wrong about that.

My email: george...@email.com

Regards

George

[George Smith]

My email: george...@outlook.com

hope this gets through this time

George

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From: 'RogerRowland' via Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: 27 July 2026 09:12

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[pouma1954]

A felt seal doesn't.

Paul

Envoyé depuis mon appareil Galaxy

-------- Message d'origine --------

De : 'RogerRowland' via Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>

Date : 27/07/2026 10:12 (GMT+01:00)

À : guzzi-...@googlegroups.com

Objet : Re: [guzzi-singles] Re: My SuperAlce

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[Alan Comfort]

Try running without one and you will be impressed by the amount of oil that they do prevent from escaping.

Unlike modern bikes, the old 'slicers were never meant to be 100% oil tight. A few drops of oil after a ride and an oily film on the undercarriage are to be expected. Large puddles require investigation and remediation. When installing new felt seals, remember to proof them in hot tallow before they are fitted.

I have found that the modern fibre washers that are used in various locations on the outside of the engine do not seal very well. I have been making leather washers for use in these locations and they seem to be working much better. Not sure about longevity yet.

Alam in Roberts Creek

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[George Smith Located Norfolk UK]

Hi Alan

I have been having a look round the engine today and agree that the fibre washers are not very efficient,  I have added changing them to my list for the winter break. I am not expecting an oiltight engine but would like some improvement.The voyage of discovery continues.

[jerry atric]

On the subject of rocker bush wear, I feel pretty sure I changed them during my ownership so unless something happened since, they should be alright. Removing the drive sprocket etc.to access the oiling hole is a straightforward job. No need to touch the clutch rod, just dont loose the 3mm balls from the actuating "button"🙈

[George Smith Located Norfolk UK]

Thanks for the tip. I shall make blocking the chain oiler hole my first job and afterwards carefully replace your patented clutch button protection device. (the piece of wire).😊

[jerry atric]

its like American Express: Don't leave home without it!😂

[guzz...@aol.com]

Instead of using fibre washers, try dowty washers with the rubber insert. When I use them on my gas taps I also use either an alloy washer or fiber washer between the jam nut and the dowty so as not to tear the rubber seal

Tim

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[Patrick Hughes]

That's a great tip

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[George Smith]

That is a great idea. Thanks to all the tips from members I now have the beginning of a plan 

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[Patrick Hayes]

On 7/25/26 04:20, George Smith Located Norfolk UK wrote:
> 3) oil leaks at the front could be from therocker cover causing oil on
> the head and barrel when riding.

Last week we were discussing oil leakage from the felt seals on the
exposed rocker arm shafts and rocker box. One of our club members rides
a GTV. He is a true artisan machinist tinkerer. Here is a pic of his
rocker box showing modern rubber seals on the shafts and also some extra
oil supply lines.

[jerry atric]

Work of art.

[Rick Yamane]

My view on this stuff is, while it may be fun to build and improve things, a lot of our bikes are approaching 100 years old. There are reasons they live that long and some of it could well be the self-lubricating value of some seepage and leakage.
Oil films can help preserve bare alloy castings as well as provide lubrication for moving parts.

How many Japanese bikes are going to make it to 100 years? All those clear coated cases that look great new, usually start showing their age within ten years. OHV Honda heads are becoming very valuable because cam bearing surfaces can burn up with insufficient maintenance. They don’t leak though! Hahaha!

 

Rick

 

From: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of jerry atric

Sent: Friday, July 31, 2026 12:34 PM
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[guzz...@aol.com]

As an owner & caretaker of both Brit & Italian bikes ... I carry a rag in my coat pocket and have oil stains on my pant legs, who could ask for anything more

Tim

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