Moto Guzzi Airone 250cc 1954

[rendezvo...@googlemail.com]

Hi

I have just purchased a lovely bike fully restored and that has been used but also stored for a few months. I collected this from an auction and although selecting 1st was somewhat difficult, I adjusted the clutch and managed to get home around 10 miles but the clutch did slip if I pulled to much power. However, after adjusting the clutch in my garage, The clutch appears stuck as with the engine stopped, 1st selected and clutch lever pulled in, the back wheel is locked. I have tried all sorts of adjustment but no joy.

Can anyone please help with;

Engine information ie cutaway showing the clutch
English handbook that I can purchase
Procedure to dismantle, check/replace and rebuild the clutch

On my BSA A10 & T140V its simple

Any help much appreciated

Graham

[Gordon de la Mare]

You could start by washing out the clutch housing and the plates.
Drain screw is on bottom RHS of housing just by the footrest bracket.
Unscrew and let any oil wash out.
Then screw back in.
Then there are two screws on to of clutch housing on the crankcase.
Undo the one nearest you (the one with the bigger head) and pour in (small hole BTW) some paraffin (maybe 100ml) or maybe petrol - US guys tend to go for methylated spirits or whatever they call it in their language.
Pull in clutch lever and kick it round a few times using kickstarter.
Open drain screw at the bottom and empty out contents.
Repeat a couple of times so that cleans the clutch.
Clutch adjustment just needs to be a few thou between the button on the end of the clutch pushrod and the actuating arm.
Go through this and if that doesn't fix it then you are on to round two but try this stuff out first.
Gordon

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From: "rendezvo...@googlemail.com" <rendezvo...@googlemail.com>
To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 16 October 2013, 11:22
Subject: [guzzi-singles] Moto Guzzi Airone 250cc 1954

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[Alan Comfort]

Hello Graham,
It sounds like your plates are sticking together, or perhaps some of the friction pads have become dislodged and are binding. When you say you have adjusted the clutch, was it by the cable and levers or was it by the spring inside the bell shaped housing on the right side of the bike? There is a knurled knob that adjusts the spring pressure in there. If I recall correctly, it is a left handed thread, Turning it clock wise will loosen the pressure.
From the symptoms that you describe here is what I would do:
1) with the clutch lever pulled in, rock the bike gently back and forth until you find neutral
2) try kicking the engine over with the clutch pulled in. If it is the same with the clutch pulled in and the clutch lever released, then your plates are stuck
3) remove the little screw at the top of the clutch housing on the right side of the bike and add about a pint of kerosene
4) start the bike and pull the clutch lever in and out, then see if the clutch as freed up. This is a very messy procedure so you should put down a tarp if you are working in an area that is sensitive to oil stains.,
5) drain the kerosene into a pan via the drain plug at the bottom of the clutch housing. If there are little bits of friction material in the pan, you will need to dismantle the clutch and replace the friction plate. You should also check to ensure that the plain plates are flat by placing them on a piece of plate glass or other flat surface.

I hope that the foregoing is of some use to you. The Guzzi clutches are elegantly simple and they work well with very little maintenance. Once you get into the inner workings, it will become readily apparent what needs to be done.

Alan in Roberts Creek

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[Gordon de la Mare]

A pint?
You'd better hope that the crankshaft and gearbox shaft felt seals are working else you may find paraffin in the engine crankcase and engine bearings won't like that.
As to clutch spring it is supposed to be adjusted so that it is 27.5 mm deep.
This is the same on all singles as far as I know.
Gordon

---

From: Alan Comfort <alan.c...@gmail.com>
To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 16 October 2013, 20:20
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Moto Guzzi Airone 250cc 1954

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[Alan Comfort]

A pint might be a bit much for one flush. I usually do the clutch flush whenever i change the oil, so i do not worry too much about a little kerosene in the crankcase. Nonetheless, a more conservative amount and several applications might be safer.

Alan in Roberts Creek

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[Patrick Hayes]

Graham: Here is something I wrote a few years back. The pics are still
active.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
---------------------------------------
Several people are currently experiencing noisy gear change action and
poor clutch performance on cold starts. Time for a refresher on the
clutch design and the required periodic method of bathing the parts.

The Guzzi-Single clutch is composed of a stacked sandwich of 5 steel and
5 bronze plates. The steel plates are connected in their center to the
clutch fixed body hub on the primary shaft of the transmission. The
bronze plates are connected at their perimeter to the gear-like outer
body basket. There may be one or two friction material rings installed
at the base of this stack as well. The outer body basket may run on a
continuous core bushing or it may have a packet of loose rollers. All
of these options depend on which model and year you have, but the
multi-plate design and basic operation are all the same.

Here are pictures of a used plate stack and a fresh stack already
installed into my SuperAlce.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-719X.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-718X.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-720X.jpg

When the clutch is bound by its spring, the stack of plates and all of
the clutch components rotate as an intact, unit mass. When you pull on
the clutch handle, the spring pressure is countered or relieved and the
various pieces are released and allowed to move independently. In
theory, the stacked sandwich parts should all slip smoothly over each
otther so that the outer body remains spinning with the motor, while the
inner body remains stationary. This allows you to remain in gear with
the engine running.

In addition to these parts, there is a small passage at the top of the
crankcase which allows for a fine mist of air and engine oil to pass
from the crankcase chamber to the exterior clutch chamber.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-723X.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-724X.jpg
(the zip tie is in place just to demonstrate the oil passage route)

This mist of oil lubricates all the parts in the clutch chamber,
including the plates, and eventually condenses into a puddle in the
clutch chamber. It is a total loss system. There is no way for this oil
to get back into the engine case. Eventually, this condensed puddle
grows to the level that the bottom of the clutch parts are sitting in a
pool of oil and any further excess starts to leak out behind the
flywheel where the crankshaft passes through the clutch chamber. There
is no seal for this passage. This blue tape represents the maximum
depth of oil puddle within the clutch chamber before it will simply pour
out the crankshaft hole.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-722X.jpg

Guzzi didn't want to waste this oil mist, so there is also a
crossing passage which goes from the clutch chamber back to the right
side in the vicinity of the chain drive sprocket. Some of the oil mist
works its way out over here and drips onto the chain as an automatic
oiler. Clever, but messy. Many of us plug that cross passage to reduce
the mess and we then relay on modern chain sprays. You can see my plug
here.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-717X.jpg

Warm, thin, clean oil is a very nice substance to put onto the clutch
plates. It lubricates everything for smooth action and minimizes wear.
However, cold, dirty oil acts more like a glue than a lubricant and
prevents free action of the plates. The various clutch pieces all bind
together and fail to slip as intended. It can become very noisy to
shift gears, especially down into first gear. The noise also produces
damage to the tips of the gear teeth. The COMPLETE CURE is to fully
disassemble the entire clutch package and clean all the parts to new
condition.

The INTERMEDIATE MAINTENANCE solution is the BATHE the clutch parts to
remove any oil or dirt or wear material and restore original action.
Here is the procedure. It will be a VERY messy job so protect your
floor and be prepared for hazardous disposals.

First, at the lower rear curve of the clutch cover plate, there will be
a small, slotted screw-plug. Remove that to drain away all of the
condensed puddle of oil. Here is the drain plug at the lower rear of
the clutch cover.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-721X.jpg

Flipping the cover over, you may be able to see the interior tip of this
drain plug at the lower left.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-722X.jpg

Second, at the top of the left side crankcase you will find an engine
breather tube which returns crankcase pressure and oil mist back to the
oil reservoir tank. Adjacent to that breather tube is a slotted plug
which leads directly to the clutch chamber below.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-723X.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-724X.jpg
(the zip tie is in place just to demonstrate the oil passage route)

Third, introduce a pint of 'paint thinner' into the clutch chamber via
the upper plug. If you put too much, it will simply run out the opening
behind the flywheel.

CAUTION: In America, paint thinner is also known
as mineral spirits. It is a good solvent, but not particularly volatile
or harsh to painted surfaces. In Europe however, the term 'paint
thinner' refers to something Americans call lacquer thinner. This
latter material is highly flammable and an instant paint remover and
should NOT be used for this cleaning purpose. In a pinch, you can use
gasoline. But please don't smoke while working.

Fourth, push the kickstarter repeatedly. While doing so, pull on the
clutch handle slightly so that the engine does not turn over but the
kickstarter does go through full throw. In this way, the kickstarter
will be rotating the inner body and steel plates, while engine
compression will be holding back the external body and bronze plates.
The paint thinner will remove oil, grime, and wear contaminants from the
clutch parts and drop them into the bottom of the clutch chamber cover.
Do this kicking and feathering for several minutes.

Fifth, remove the plug at the rear lower corner of the clutch cover and
drain away the contaminated paint thinner. Although dirty, it might be
useful for other rough part washing tasks around your shop. Let it
settle for a week so you can decant the liquid off of the settled sludge.

Sixth, repeat steps three through five, perhaps a total of three rinse
cycles.

Seventh, clean up your mess and go for a ride. It will likely be
several months or a year before you need to repeat this procedure
depending on your miles driven.

As a TEMPORARY AID before you have an opportunity to perform the more
involved bathing or disassembly tasks you can assist the releasing of
the cold clutch plates. You will generally find that shifting from
neutral into second gear is a lot easier than shifting down into first.
So, on a cold started motor, shift into second. Gently rev the motor
slightly, and, while holding the hand or foot brake, feather release the
clutch handle a few times so that you force a slippage of the plates
several times. Do this almost to the point of stalling the motor. This
will quickly heat the oil film which is binding the plates and the
underlying components. You may now be able to return to idle and more
quietly shift into first gear.


Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
SuperAlce and Falcone-NT

[Mac Dennis]

I agree too, a pint does seem like a lot.

Mac

[Guzz...@aol.com]

You might end up using a whole pint after several rinses but don't use the whole pint all at once........

 

........Tim

[Graham Walsh]

Thanks everyone. Will give it a try

Graham

T

[andrew nahum]

I guess you have clocked that it is not like other clutches. The
spring (just one) is on one side and the friction pack is on the
other. Wonderful example of Guzzi originality. There is a dimension
for setting the spring with its ring nut which is also part of the
important proces of getting the right balance between slip and drag.
(I think it's always only a balance!) And look out for the little
button with tiny balls that forms the release bearing if you strip it
as they will be keen to seek their freedom on workshop floor.

When you are running the solvent through - whatever you use - kick
the engine over slowly and squeeze the clutch lever in and out because
you want to get the cleaning agent between the plates.

Andrew

[Graham Walsh]

Hello

A great big thank you to all who replied to my question.  As suggested, I took out the gearbox drain plug close to the flywheel and just a small amount of thick oil came out. Took out the inboard screw on top of the gearbox (has a ball bearing fitted) and added some oil just to check this was the drain and the oil appeared. Refitted the drain plug and added some petrol and spun the clutch over.  Carried this out 3 times and the clutch is now perfect. I just need to know how much oil to put in. Any suggestions ?

Again, many thanks

Graham

[Jerome Kimberlin]

On 10/25/2013 6:04 AM, Graham Walsh wrote:

> I just need to know how much oil to put in. Any suggestions ?

None!!!

JerryK

[Buzz Kanter]

That's right. Once you drain it out do not put any oil in. But remember to occasionally check and drain the oil that does accumulate there.

Buzz Kanter

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[Graham Walsh]

Thanks and noted. No oil
GRAHAM