Starting my Superalce.

[v7j...@outlook.com]

Now this is a very basic question from a newish owner. I can start my Superalce with absolutely no problem when it's on its mainstand. Second kick usually does it. However, no way am I able to kick the thing into life if I'm either astride it or it's on the sidestand. The suspension compresses and steals all my effort! It's not as if I'm new to kicking bikes over as I've got a BSA 500 single as well. Bit embarrassing really.

I'm sure it must be possible. Can anyone let me Know the secret?

John

[Mac Dennis]

I always kick start a bike from the side and never on the side stand as it will bend or break if on same side.

Maybe a Harley but I never have had one.

I am liking the electric starter these days.

Mac

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[Alan Comfort]

Do you know the secret to the "rocking start"? Leave the valve lifter alone and give it gentle prod until it hits near TDC on the compression stroke, then let the flywheel rock backward until it nearly stops. Just as it loses backward momentum give it another prod and repeat until ithe flywheel has enough momentum to carry the piston past TDC, Then bang! and away you go. It takes a bit of practise, but when you get it right it is like ballet.

There are some videos that show this technique. I'll see if I can find one and send the link.

It is a must learn if your valve lifter is not fully functional.

Alan in Roberts Creek

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[Patrick Hayes]

On 8/7/2024 5:58 PM, Alan Comfort wrote:
> There are some videos that show this technique. I'll see if I can find
> one and send the link.

AFAIK, that video is no longer posted publicly. It is a large video
file. Alan and I will try to find a way to get it posted.

Meanwhile, I have just discovered that the full motion picture of "Linea
di Fuoco" is available on YouTube. Dramatic cinema about the North
Africa campaign of WWII. Study the history before you watch the movie.
Guzzi SuperAlce plays a starring role. There is a unique scene toward
the very end where our protagonist finds a SuperAlce in the sand and
tries desperately to get it running. I won't do a spoiler. Look at
that scene for some starting advice.

Of course, the SUPERAlce wasn't produced until after the war in 1946 so
it is an anachronism. The war moto would have properly been the earlier
Alce.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Alan Comfort]

Next time my daughter comes for a visit, I'll get her to do a video of starting my Falcone with this method and post it on youtube.

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[John Dyer]

Thanks Alan,

That'll be a great help. A couple of weeks ago I was out on the bike after trying to improve the clutch and gearchange. When I went to start the bike, the valve lifter cable failed and I had to push the bike to the top of a hill to "bump" it. I could have done with knowing about this then! I haven't had a chance to test the method yet though.

I've heard of "Linea di Fuoco" and will track it down to watch.

My SuperAlce's age seems to have been mistaken over the years. The UK import documents say 1940 as does the UK vehicle log book! Even the Vintage Motor Cycle Club produced a certificate for a previous owner confirming this as fact. It was sold to me as being 1948 and I reckon it to be 1953/54-ish as it has an auto advance magneto and a "SAG" frame number. It's all pretty academic as the bike is nowhere near original.

John

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[Rick Yamane]

Without the valve lifter, I know the old school B50/B44 scrambles guys would click it into gear and back the bike up to the compression stroke then bump start. Some of them would remove kick starters all together. The important part is to get the engine to ATDC before trying to start. The Guzzis would be easy since you can use the flywheel and leave the gearbox in neutral to back the engine to the compression.
Yes, if equipped I start all of my bikes on the centerstand. 
.....And yes, the magic e-button looks prettier all the time.

Numbers on the old stuff is even wrong from the factory archives.  When I bought my GTV from Jerry Kimberlin he had gotten documentation on the frame number saying it was a GT17. It obviously is not as the frames are quite different. 

Rick

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From: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of John Dyer <v7j...@outlook.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2024 9:03 AM
To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Starting my Superalce.

 

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[Gordon de la Mare]

Good one Rick.

That is how old speedway bikes were started. 

 They were 15:1 compression ratio 500cc JAP on ESO engined singles with a single gear and no such thing as a valve lifter.

Either bump start or pull the rear wheel round by hand while still on a centre  stand.
A  soft compression SuperAlce would be a doddle but do use 3rd gear. 

Cheers

Gordon

Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer

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.

[John Dyer]

Thanks everyone for the input.

The low compression of the SuperAlce means it's really easy to kick over on the centre stand. I find trying to push and bump it difficult as there are so many "hard bits" to take lumps out of my shins in the process. Not impossible but not nice either. The issue for me is that trying to kick it over when off the centre stand doesn't work for me. The compression of the suspension as I try to kick it over takes away all my oomph. It's quite strange really as I only need to stroke the starter when it's on the main stand. It's not like my BSA single which involves a heavy descent and a real strong swing. That hasn't got a side stand and I can kick that up stood astride it despite its (plunger) suspension. I am 6ft 4in after all and I'm sure it's all down to a technique I haven't mastered yet. The "rocking start looks interesting" and I'll have to give it a go. I did once see a Normale started by being kicked over repeatedly with the valve lifter so that the flywheel spun up. The bike then started when the lifter was dropped. Of course that had no rear suspension to sap the energy.

John

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[Jeff Buick]

Hey group.  I decided to make a video today of using the bounce starting technique on my GTW and Falcone.  I always use this technique and it works really well.  Give it a try and let me know if you have any questions.

Jeff Buick

Michigan, U.S.A.

On Aug 8, 2024, at 2:53 PM, Rick Yamane <ri...@motionpro.com> wrote:



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[Dave Knaack]

Excellent video !! Thank you very much 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 8, 2024, at 1:51 PM, 'Jeff Buick' via Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Hey group.  I decided to make a video today of using the bounce starting technique on my GTW and Falcone.  I always use this technique and it works really well.  Give it a try and let me know if you have any questions.

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[Alan Comfort]

Thjanks Jeff, that is exactly what I had planned to put on a video. Another advantage of the bounce technique is that it helps with getting a fresh charge of fuel into the cylinder. I usually give my slicers four or five bounces when cold and one or two when hot. Works every time, except when there are five or six onlookers.

By the way, those are some sweet running 'slicers!

Alan. in Roberts Creek

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[John Dyer]

I've had a look at the video and I'll give it a go, probably at the weekend. Kicker is on the other side but that won't make any difference. I think there's a chance this'll work with the bike on the sidestand. We can but try. Off road I can't always deploy the centre stand easily.

Thanks everyone for your help.

John in Welsh Wales.

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[guzz...@aol.com]

better to kick it on the center stand so you don't bend or break the side stand. I know it looks robust but you don't want to chance it.

Tim

SA owner

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[guzz...@aol.com]

I should of said I stand alongside the bike while it's on the center stand when I attempt to start mine. Bike moves around too much for me to try it on the side stand like you mentioned.

Tim

To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2024 at 05:01:15 PM CDT

Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Starting my Superalce.

[John Dyer]

Thanks Tim,

I should probably have said that that's what I do as well - stand beside the bike. Being so tall, I've never needed to kick start a bike while it's got the weight on the side stand. However, on occasions when I've stalled or been off road, I've started other bikes astride them. For instance, tomorrow I'm at a vintage show and bikes will be paraded around the field. Then stopped and the owners interviewed. I've then got to re-start the bike on grass and will have to haul it up on the centre stand, possibly on an uneven surface before I can get it going. Having said that, the SuperAlce centre stand is probably the easiest I've ever used (on the flat at least).

I have tried the "bounce" starting method as described by others. While it's useful to know and definitely works, at the moment I'm not sure it's any better than easing over compression then giving a good kick. I still can't start it astride the bike so for now I will just have to manage with the main stand but I'll keep practising!

John

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[guzz...@aol.com]

John , for me I'm shorter than 6ft. so trying to balance and start the bike is a little harder to do while on the bike. I've gotten lucky a few times if the bike is warmed up enough. But, when that isn't the case I just push the machine out of harms way and up on the stand and start it. Luckily the SA center stand has a big wide footprint and that helps too. 

ride safe and ride far .

Tim

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