Clutch Button Bearing Data
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Patrick Hayes
Mar 8, 2025, 5:08:06 PM3/8/25
to Guzzi Singles
Time to come clean. Many of you have expressed an interest in my Clutch
Button Bearing modification. I came up with this modification several
years ago. I'm not a professional machinist. I made and sold these at
basic cost just so I had something to do in my spare time and to afford
to buy a pint now and then. I've hand delivered a few in Italy. I sold
a small bunch around the US. I've even posted a few to the OZ people.
I didn't do it for money. I have no proprietary interest in the data.
You want some? Find a way to make your own. You know someone with the
skills and machinery to duplicate this? Please make a bunch and share
them back with the Guzzi community at cost like I did. The part should
fit Falcone, Airone,GTV and some other models. Confirm if your bike
uses original stock part number M080/080 ter.
Dimension of the two pieces I make are here:
https://i.postimg.cc/s27XqJZX/Clutch-Button-Specs.jpg
Dimensions on the diagram are in thousandths of an inch.
Pictures of the separate pieces and full assembly can be found here:
http://www.motohayes.com/shoptask/clutchbutton/clutchbutton.html
Alas, those pictures don't show that I finish the base piece with a
1/16" thru-hole so that I don't capture an air bubble above the grease
when assembling the cap and allows for excess grease to easily just push
out.
Both of the fabricated pieces have slight chamfering on every edge just
because.
Think first to figure out how to fabricate without painting yourself in
a corner. Clamp here, turn there. Suddenly you realize you just cut
off what you need to clamp in order to perform the next operation.
Fast forward in life.
I am currently burdened with managing a complex, in-law family Trust.
Likely to be at it throughout 2025. Even involves evicting a
non-compliant tenant so I can sell property. I've been on my motorbike
exactly four times this year and each was a short trip to an attorney or
CPA. Meanwhile my daughter-in-law has been forced back to formal office
work instead of work from home. So, now in my golden years I get to
chase my two year old GrandSon for three days every week (the actual
singular joy of my current life, motos be damned). I'm slacking on my
responsibility as Handicap Chair for my golf Club. I can't recall doing
any serious maintenance on any of my motos.
.
.
.
. and in my spare time....
The bearing sandwich is a standard design from many sources. Last batch
I bought came from Amazon. Browse for a "thrust bearing" number F6-14M.
That will be a set of caged balls and two special race washers that
have radiused grooves to track the balls. Any other good bearing house
would likely supply something similar. The three piece sandwich has
dimensions of:
Inner Diameter: 6mm
Outer Diameter: 14mm
Sandwich stack height: 5mm
Usually only a few bucks each and usually sold ten at a time.
The balls are made of Chrome Steel(AISI 52100)
Various manufacturers around the world. Various quality and
durability??????
The support base and cover/cap are as shown in the web pages above. My
crude diagram is not to scale. I have been using Stainless Steel #303
because I like the way it cuts. Other metals would likely work just
fine. If you are a certified metallurgist then go ahead and opine. No
corrosion as the bits are always covered in grease. The parts are not
sealed for water or grime intrusion. Neither was the factory original.
The factory original was a cup nested over another cup. Better
protection for the parts, but not a 'seal' by any definition. My
version is a snap to remove/lubricate/reinstall so you can have fresh
grease every day on your tour and not worry about the dirt. No risk of
losing balls.
Feel free to modify the design and dimensions as you see fit. The stem
that mounts into the clutch throwout rod is a bit of a crap shoot. I
measured a number of samples to get that dimension. Problem is that the
factory original throwout rod isn't necessarily consistent in dimension
and usage wear over time can open up the entry hole in the end. I went
for an 'average' size OD for the stem on my base piece. Like the three
bears, some will be too loose and some too tight and some might be just
right. Better to be too tight. Anyone with an electric drill and a fine
bastard file could knock down the OD dimension for a custom fit. Nice
to have it snug but should always be removable by hand pinch without
needing tools.
I did try to make a nested cup-over-cup version for better protection,
but it required more precision and a lot more steps and time. Not worth
it if you can just throw this version away and do another.
Does anyone have CAD skills? Could you do a nicer, more-professional
drawing and dimensions to scale and produce a PDF for open source
distribution like I did? Send a more-professional version back to me?
Do you have a quality small size CNC lathe? These are really trivial,
unsophisticated parts. Could you turn out a small bunch now and then to
distribute at cost as I have? I don't have CNC so every one of mine is
a unique one-off with individual characteristics (er, flaws). It really
is not a commercial item. You could never sell for the time invested in
one off production. After that there certainly isn't a huge market to
supply.
Some day I'll come up for air and turn out a bunch more. But don't hold
your breath. Until then, someone else please step up.
Questions? Go ahead, but reply may be delayed. I have to change
diapers. As always, YMMV.
--
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Falcone-NT and SuperAlce
www.motohayes.com
Button Bearing modification. I came up with this modification several
years ago. I'm not a professional machinist. I made and sold these at
basic cost just so I had something to do in my spare time and to afford
to buy a pint now and then. I've hand delivered a few in Italy. I sold
a small bunch around the US. I've even posted a few to the OZ people.
I didn't do it for money. I have no proprietary interest in the data.
You want some? Find a way to make your own. You know someone with the
skills and machinery to duplicate this? Please make a bunch and share
them back with the Guzzi community at cost like I did. The part should
fit Falcone, Airone,GTV and some other models. Confirm if your bike
uses original stock part number M080/080 ter.
Dimension of the two pieces I make are here:
https://i.postimg.cc/s27XqJZX/Clutch-Button-Specs.jpg
Dimensions on the diagram are in thousandths of an inch.
Pictures of the separate pieces and full assembly can be found here:
http://www.motohayes.com/shoptask/clutchbutton/clutchbutton.html
Alas, those pictures don't show that I finish the base piece with a
1/16" thru-hole so that I don't capture an air bubble above the grease
when assembling the cap and allows for excess grease to easily just push
out.
Both of the fabricated pieces have slight chamfering on every edge just
because.
Think first to figure out how to fabricate without painting yourself in
a corner. Clamp here, turn there. Suddenly you realize you just cut
off what you need to clamp in order to perform the next operation.
Fast forward in life.
I am currently burdened with managing a complex, in-law family Trust.
Likely to be at it throughout 2025. Even involves evicting a
non-compliant tenant so I can sell property. I've been on my motorbike
exactly four times this year and each was a short trip to an attorney or
CPA. Meanwhile my daughter-in-law has been forced back to formal office
work instead of work from home. So, now in my golden years I get to
chase my two year old GrandSon for three days every week (the actual
singular joy of my current life, motos be damned). I'm slacking on my
responsibility as Handicap Chair for my golf Club. I can't recall doing
any serious maintenance on any of my motos.
.
.
.
. and in my spare time....
The bearing sandwich is a standard design from many sources. Last batch
I bought came from Amazon. Browse for a "thrust bearing" number F6-14M.
That will be a set of caged balls and two special race washers that
have radiused grooves to track the balls. Any other good bearing house
would likely supply something similar. The three piece sandwich has
dimensions of:
Inner Diameter: 6mm
Outer Diameter: 14mm
Sandwich stack height: 5mm
Usually only a few bucks each and usually sold ten at a time.
The balls are made of Chrome Steel(AISI 52100)
Various manufacturers around the world. Various quality and
durability??????
The support base and cover/cap are as shown in the web pages above. My
crude diagram is not to scale. I have been using Stainless Steel #303
because I like the way it cuts. Other metals would likely work just
fine. If you are a certified metallurgist then go ahead and opine. No
corrosion as the bits are always covered in grease. The parts are not
sealed for water or grime intrusion. Neither was the factory original.
The factory original was a cup nested over another cup. Better
protection for the parts, but not a 'seal' by any definition. My
version is a snap to remove/lubricate/reinstall so you can have fresh
grease every day on your tour and not worry about the dirt. No risk of
losing balls.
Feel free to modify the design and dimensions as you see fit. The stem
that mounts into the clutch throwout rod is a bit of a crap shoot. I
measured a number of samples to get that dimension. Problem is that the
factory original throwout rod isn't necessarily consistent in dimension
and usage wear over time can open up the entry hole in the end. I went
for an 'average' size OD for the stem on my base piece. Like the three
bears, some will be too loose and some too tight and some might be just
right. Better to be too tight. Anyone with an electric drill and a fine
bastard file could knock down the OD dimension for a custom fit. Nice
to have it snug but should always be removable by hand pinch without
needing tools.
I did try to make a nested cup-over-cup version for better protection,
but it required more precision and a lot more steps and time. Not worth
it if you can just throw this version away and do another.
Does anyone have CAD skills? Could you do a nicer, more-professional
drawing and dimensions to scale and produce a PDF for open source
distribution like I did? Send a more-professional version back to me?
Do you have a quality small size CNC lathe? These are really trivial,
unsophisticated parts. Could you turn out a small bunch now and then to
distribute at cost as I have? I don't have CNC so every one of mine is
a unique one-off with individual characteristics (er, flaws). It really
is not a commercial item. You could never sell for the time invested in
one off production. After that there certainly isn't a huge market to
supply.
Some day I'll come up for air and turn out a bunch more. But don't hold
your breath. Until then, someone else please step up.
Questions? Go ahead, but reply may be delayed. I have to change
diapers. As always, YMMV.
--
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Falcone-NT and SuperAlce
www.motohayes.com
ksteenst
Mar 8, 2025, 11:07:37 PM3/8/25
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
I was one of those "Oz people"! And I thank you Patrick. For that and all the sage advice provided over the years of my Airone custodianship... It is running better than ever , still starts 1st or 2nd kick and can take me "there and back again" albeit at a leisurely pace.
--
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Mike Curtis
Mar 8, 2025, 11:31:19 PM3/8/25
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
There’s machine shop here in Ft Worth that does little motorcycle odds n ends for me from time to time. Unless somebody has a better idea, I think I’ll ride by one day next week and have him knockout a few. I think I will put one on my Airone and one on my Falcone and carry the originals as spares. Have no idea what they will cost but I don’t imagine much. Happy to pass them on at actual cost; you pay the postage. Check in here, or with Pat, or directly to me so I have some numbers. Pat you might suggest your impression of a good rough number based on inquiries. Thanks for all you do Pat. Best luck with your current challenges. I’m confidant that they are in good hands. Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 8, 2025, at 10:07 PM, ksteenst <kste...@gmail.com> wrote:
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/guzzi-singles/CAD6azr8Y8GWi4C2nng%3Dq3zaYXdVjL_cJY%2BV6GuEJOrpJgj5aig%40mail.gmail.com.
Patrick Hayes
Mar 8, 2025, 11:37:00 PM3/8/25
to 'Mike Curtis' via Guzzi Singles
On 3/8/25 20:31, 'Mike Curtis' via Guzzi Singles wrote:
> here’s machine shop here in Ft Worth that does little motorcycle odds n
> ends for me from time to time.
If someone has a CNC lathe they would write a simple program to generate
> here’s machine shop here in Ft Worth that does little motorcycle odds n
> ends for me from time to time.
the parts. That program data might be instantly transferable to other
lathes and the second guide just has to punch out the results. Consider
sharing the computer files. If someone modifies some dimension to
improve the system please share the mod.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Richard Harding
Mar 9, 2025, 7:39:46 AM3/9/25
to Guzzi Singles
Thanks Patrick - I'll take a crack at producing a CAD file for and I'm going to get my friend to make up a couple for testing on my SA
Dave Knaack
Mar 9, 2025, 8:16:00 AM3/9/25
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Great, keep us posted!
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 9, 2025, at 6:39 AM, Richard Harding <ric...@sprydon.com> wrote:
Thanks Patrick - I'll take a crack at producing a CAD file for and I'm going to get my friend to make up a couple for testing on my SA
--
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bobka...@verizon.net
Mar 9, 2025, 10:01:58 PM3/9/25
to 'Mike Curtis' via Guzzi Singles
Rick Yamane
Mar 10, 2025, 11:44:02 AM3/10/25
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Patrick!
I was going to give it a try on our old lathe here at the shop. If someone does do some on a CNC run I'm sure that would make sense in a time and money senario. I need to confirm the parts will work on my GTV but would probably want a set on hand for Chris' Falcone at least. I'll be sure to let folks know how it goes for me.
Good luck and best wishes on the estate work. I know that probably won't be an easy job.
I was going to give it a try on our old lathe here at the shop. If someone does do some on a CNC run I'm sure that would make sense in a time and money senario. I need to confirm the parts will work on my GTV but would probably want a set on hand for Chris' Falcone at least. I'll be sure to let folks know how it goes for me.
Good luck and best wishes on the estate work. I know that probably won't be an easy job.
From: 'Patrick Hayes' via Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 8, 2025 2:08 PM
To: Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [guzzi-singles] Clutch Button Bearing Data
Sent: Saturday, March 8, 2025 2:08 PM
To: Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [guzzi-singles] Clutch Button Bearing Data
Time to come clean. Many of you have expressed an interest in my Clutch
Button Bearing modification. I came up with this modification several
years ago. I'm not a professional machinist. I made and sold these at
basic cost just so I had something to do in my spare time and to afford
to buy a pint now and then. I've hand delivered a few in Italy. I sold
a small bunch around the US. I've even posted a few to the OZ people.
I didn't do it for money. I have no proprietary interest in the data.
You want some? Find a way to make your own. You know someone with the
skills and machinery to duplicate this? Please make a bunch and share
them back with the Guzzi community at cost like I did. The part should
fit Falcone, Airone,GTV and some other models. Confirm if your bike
uses original stock part number M080/080 ter.
Dimension of the two pieces I make are here:
Button Bearing modification. I came up with this modification several
years ago. I'm not a professional machinist. I made and sold these at
basic cost just so I had something to do in my spare time and to afford
to buy a pint now and then. I've hand delivered a few in Italy. I sold
a small bunch around the US. I've even posted a few to the OZ people.
I didn't do it for money. I have no proprietary interest in the data.
You want some? Find a way to make your own. You know someone with the
skills and machinery to duplicate this? Please make a bunch and share
them back with the Guzzi community at cost like I did. The part should
fit Falcone, Airone,GTV and some other models. Confirm if your bike
uses original stock part number M080/080 ter.
Dimension of the two pieces I make are here:
Dimensions on the diagram are in thousandths of an inch.
Pictures of the separate pieces and full assembly can be found here:
--
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Joe Joseph
Mar 10, 2025, 12:32:35 PM3/10/25
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Rick
I drew Patrick's dimensions in Fusion 360 and have attached them to this email. I sent it to him this morning to check the dimensions BUT THESE HAVE NOT BEEN VERIFIED BY PATRICK YET!! However, as a working document it should be good to go. I converted Patrick's Imperial measurements to metric. I do have a CNC but unfortunately it's in Boston and I'm in Miami until May and can't make any until then. Let me know if you cannot open the three pdf attachments.
Joe
Rick Yamane
Mar 10, 2025, 1:37:12 PM3/10/25
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Joe!
I usually work off my freehand sketches on notepaper. Even Patrick's drawings looked good to me. What a treat! 🙂
I usually work off my freehand sketches on notepaper. Even Patrick's drawings looked good to me. What a treat! 🙂
From: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Joe Joseph <josephp...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2025 9:32 AM
To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Clutch Button Bearing Data
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2025 9:32 AM
To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Clutch Button Bearing Data
To view this discussion visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/guzzi-singles/CAJuH_SobfuqTzsu5QJ424b4b%3DYvLBN-a-LE5FkYMA2vqOrULuw%40mail.gmail.com.
Joe Joseph
Mar 10, 2025, 3:54:42 PM3/10/25
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Here are the final drawings, checked by Patrick, for his modified clutch thrust bearing. Disregard the earlier drawings.
Joe
Richard Harding
Mar 10, 2025, 4:18:21 PM3/10/25
to Guzzi Singles
Brilliant - beat me to it - thanks Joe and Patrick - I'll be getting some of these made up
Mike Curtis
Mar 10, 2025, 10:13:11 PM3/10/25
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Richard I’d be good for three if it helps. Let me know when and how much. Thanks, Mike Curtis
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 10, 2025, at 3:18 PM, Richard Harding <ric...@sprydon.com> wrote:
Brilliant - beat me to it - thanks Joe and Patrick - I'll be getting some of these made up
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/guzzi-singles/7314e4d6-3b4b-4d2f-a751-d50cca43ac8cn%40googlegroups.com.
Andrew Nahum
Mar 11, 2025, 1:17:12 PM3/11/25
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Please put me down for one. Great idea.
Andrew (1949 Airone)
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/guzzi-singles/DB8645E8-C47A-4A5C-B59F-786D46133385%40aol.com.
Richard Harding
Mar 11, 2025, 1:24:05 PM3/11/25
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
I've emailed him the drawings to get an idea of cost and lead time (he's super busy so don't hold your breath)
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/guzzi-singles/CAB9BGS_5JNHvdnhF3mRezcHdx9h_BptQdCg6diszz0Job0crrg%40mail.gmail.com.
Rick Yamane
Mar 12, 2025, 12:38:56 PM3/12/25
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Patrick and Joe!
From: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Joe Joseph <josephp...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2025 12:54 PM
To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Clutch Button Bearing Data
To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Clutch Button Bearing Data
To view this discussion visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/guzzi-singles/CAJuH_Sp1MAbOgA3bxMf%3DV%2BDeBbXxkt4SuRQ%2B2JDcAL44JAgCbQ%40mail.gmail.com.
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