Substitute carburetor for Airone

[Luc Racine]

Hi to All, 

For the last while the running of my Airone Sport was becoming quite erratic

with inconsistent tick over and reluctance to accelerate at 3/4 to full throttle.

 It was time thd srnd the carb body to  Doctor Joe in The Uk for a reslieve.

Unfortunately the Good Doctor was unable to unscrew the jet bloc of the SSI

And fearing he might brake it decided to abandon the project.

Looking at some back back issue of Gambalunga wasn't there an article about sustituting a 26 mm JIKOW carb out of a JAWA and I just had one handy on the shelf fir the last 30 years.

 The JiKOW is a copy of an old Dellorto but with integral float chamber .

- the slide cut away is identical

- the flange bolts straight on

- the jetting is perfect out of the box(45 pilot ,115 main)

- cost new incl VAT for the unchoked version is e40

 -With the addition of a home made velocity stack it looks

 close to the SSI

- and more over it runs real well

So keep your precious SSI in a safe for posterity or sell it for E600

And add a cheap bit of leak proof East European flair to your

Airone

[jerry atric]

40 Euros is bonkers cheap! more important that you can ride it than count the rivets!👍

[Rick Yamane]

I don’t know if I’d call Jikov carbs leak proof but they should work fine. It used to be parts were an impossibility in the US but with the internet there are several Czech based outfits supplying parts for CZ and Jawa. If e40 is a good current price that is a hella deal. I’d say buy two or three, especially if paying international shipping.

 

Rick

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[richard...@hotmail.co.uk]

Thanks for the tip. The original SS carb on my bike is also very tired and I have been considering fitting an Amal Monobloc. Even if it does fit, I then have the issue of which jets to use. And it will cost four or five times more than the
Jikow.  I will definitely be looking into this.

Cheers

Richard.

[kste...@gmail.com]

Interesting find. Can you direct me / us to the website where it is available at E40?

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Thursday, 10 December 2020, 20:49 +1000 from lucrac...@gmail.com <lucrac...@gmail.com>:

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[Luc Racine]

hi to All,

There are two suppliers of carbs one in Czech and another in Germany   (i Think of may be France)

Www.mz-jawa-pieces.com

Www.jawashop.com

Carbs are now taiwanese replicas of Jikov's but i had one on the bench together with a genuine jikov and they are identical.

 You can get a model with air slide choke like SSI for e50 but mine starts easy now in winter without it.

 My pilot jet is .50 ( standard) and might be a bit rich, the smallest one availlable is .45 ( found only in the repair kit from www.mz-Jawa-pieces.com).

 The bike runs better with the needle in the middle position.

 With the .50 pilot you definitely do not need an enricher, and don't flood the carb before starting!

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[guzz...@aol.com]

I wish you guys weren't so far away ,,,, I have a real Jikov 24SB-13 that would bolt right on the airone. You can have it for free but I'm in the USA a long ways away ,,,,,,

Tim  

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[ksteenst]

Fantastic find Luc.   Is it the 26 mm that would be a straight fit for an Airone Sport?

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[Rod Schmidt]

My 1 inch Amal on my GT -17 is very worn out. It’s a spigot not a flange mount.  I wonder if the JIKOW could be modified to fit. 

Rod in Minnesota 

Sent from my iPhone

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[SED Sci]

The new remote float Amals on my Ariels work great and are much better than the original potmetal Amals.  It looks like Amal/Burlen makes a 1" spigot mount 276 that could be jetted to match.  Not cheap, but probably pretty easy.  I've called them on the phone to clarify specs on the pre-war carb and they have a lot more info than on the website.

[SED Sci]

And I was going to include the website!  http://amalcarb.co.uk/

[Luc Racine]

Yep,straight fit, a bit too rich on pilot so,no flooding ,no throttle and there she runs.

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[Luc Racine]

If you have access to lathe ,you can make a flange to spigot adapter.

 Anything's good to keep the fault spotters argueing!

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[David Reeve]

I just bought an Amal pre-monoblock from Burlen for my Falcone. Slip fit on the spigot is perfect. even the cables match. Looks so similar to the Dellorto. They jetted it to suit. Yep, not cheap though.

[Patrick Hughes]

David, can you post a photo please

Regards Patrick Hughes

Harmill Systems Ltd.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------

From: David Reeve <dree...@gmail.com>

Date: 17/12/2020 19:25 (GMT+00:00)

To: Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Substitute carburetor for Airone

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[David Reeve]

I will, as soon as I figure out how to. This Amal 276 carb is its a perfect fit on the spigot and same clamp. All components are current so parts not a problem. 

[Charles Mullendore]

Generic Type 276 - The AMAL Carburetter Company

Generic Type 276 - The AMAL Carburetter Company <p><strong></strong><span style="font-size: medium;">This Generic 276 Carburettor is for component part ordering...

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/guzzi-singles/57ffe3dd-b976-4ac3-bdcc-d31fba7601aan%40googlegroups.com

.

[David Reeve]

Exactly that. However the complete carb is now available, just that it costs 299 UK pounds plus shipping. 

[Gordon de la Mare]

£299?? Is that all??  Blimey that is cheap.  It would cost many times that for a new or repro new Dellorto SS29.

There's a new SS29 on Ebay Italia for €1,900
I bought a carb for an Airone at Novegro Mostra Scambio a couple of years ago for a friend of mine doing a restoration and got a good deal at $350.

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/guzzi-singles/5d18ae67-a206-4d3f-bf6a-b97c5c2d7fdcn%40googlegroups.com

.

[pouma1954]

How much is a nice Airone going for? Old metal is an expensive pastime.

Envoyé depuis mon appareil Galaxy

-------- Message d'origine --------

De : 'Gordon de la Mare' via Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>

Date : 20/12/2020 13:12 (GMT+01:00)

À : guzzi-...@googlegroups.com

Objet : Re: [guzzi-singles] Substitute carburetor for Airone

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[Patrick Hughes]

Completely depends on condition, I don't know about Airone, I have a Falcone and I have seen prices from £6000 to £16000. Also depends how much the buyer wants the machine.

Regarding carburettors will the Amal 276 work on the Falcone if the correct jets are fitted? My bike always has erratic ticker have spent hours on the ignition timing reconditioned magneto and adjusting the carb. I know the ignition is correct so looking at reconditioning the carb or replacement.

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[Luc Racine]

Hi Patrick,

Erratic tickover is mostly due to worn out bore and slide, depending of how the slide sits down each time.

 I swear the JIKOV cured it with standard Jawa jetting, why pay more for an Amal? It may be a repro Amal made in the same Taiwanese factory where JiKOV's are now made.

The cheapest diesel car on the market ,the Dacia Sandero has the same engine as the Mercedes A Class!

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[SED Sci]

Patrick, the Amal 289 series will have larger venturis than the 276.  Final year of original production for the 276 & 289 carbs was 1954.  I think the last years of Falcones may have used the Dellorto VHB and have read they work well.  The worn out MD26 that came with the GTV never worked right (and is incorrect) so I've installed a PHBH 28 I had and it has been a struggle to get the transition off idle right.  It would have been much simpler (and possibly cheaper!) to buy the correct reconditioned MD27 Dellorto from Italy.  If you want to they a PHBH I can get you close with the set-up, but it's not quite right yet.

[Paul Marx]

Would the Jikov slide be compatible with the Dell'Orto carb body?

Would allow to regain a few year's wear?

Paul

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[Andrew Nahum]

Has anyone tried a Mikuni?  People who’ve put them on old Brit bikes say starting, idling and everything is better. Luckily my Airone starts and tonks along ok on the Dellorto so I won’t be experimenting. 

On 20 Dec 2020, at 12:12, 'Gordon de la Mare' via Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[Luc Racine]

Hi Paul, the JIKOV is either 24 or 26 mm while the Dellorto is 25.

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[pouma1954]

Venturi diameter.

Envoyé depuis mon appareil Galaxy

-------- Message d'origine --------

De : Luc Racine <lucrac...@gmail.com>

Date : 21/12/2020 15:02 (GMT+01:00)

À : guzzi-...@googlegroups.com

Objet : Re: SEO_carpRe: [guzzi-singles] Substitute carburetor for Airone

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[SED Sci]

I tried a Mikuni on my GTV jetted for an Enfield Bullet 500 and the atomizer was far too lean.  The Mikuni doesn't fit as well and never ran cleanly off idle.  It did idle nice, but so does the PHBH.

[Roget Shufflebottom]

The Moto Guzzi Club GB magazine, Gambalunga, September-October 2017, has an article on this very topic - a Jikov fitted to an Airone. How do I know? I edit Gambalunga!

RS.

[Luc Racine]

Hi Roget, yes, I credited Gambalunga while launching the subject in my first post .

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[Phil Mac]

On the basis of it only being £50 delivered to the UK from CZ (definite 'Moto Guzzi' content/cheapskate) and the recommendation on this thread I've brought one and it's arrived. Looks perfectly serviceable although it has a top fuel entry point and I haven't checked the throttle cable connection yet. Will have a play around in the spring and see if it performs better than the original SS25. Will report then!

Phil

[Rick Yamane]

I’m not a big fan of Mikunis. Too many adjustable circuits make them a PIA to get dialed in. Once done they are good but getting there can be very time consuming.

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From: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of SED Sci <doa...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 9:27 AM
To: Guzzi Singles

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[richard...@hotmail.co.uk]

Thanks for the tip. Like you, my original SSF carb is definitely tired, with fussy starting being the most obvious symptom. My new Jikov carb arrived a few days ago and I fitted it yesterday. I can’t say that it started first kick but the temperature here was barely above freezing. After some fiddling with themixture screw and the tickover screw I now have easy starting and a steady tickover. I can’t report on performance through the rev range as I haven’t taken the bike on the road yet ( and I’m unlikely to for a few weeks yet ).

I have also used a phenolic spacer which I bought from the amal carb shop http://amalcarb.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/?q=phenolic

I had bought this when I was considering fitting an Amal monobloc, which should also fit without modification. I’m glad that I didn’t spend £200 on a new mnobloc as the Jikov looks more correct, as well as being much cheaper. 

[Patrick Hughes]

Has anyone fitted a Jikov carb to a Falcone?

 

Regards
Patrick Hughes   CEng FIMechE FSOE FIPlantE

Managing Director
Harmill Systems Ltd
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Beds
LU7 4UH

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[Phil Mac]

Finally got around to fitting the Jikov to the Sport today. Runs quite a bit stronger but I'm struggling to get the tickover to settle. On closed throttle it's firing strongly (maybe 8 stroking occasionally) but tickover is at least twice the revs it should be. Any thoughts anyone?

Regards

Phil

[pouma1954]

Slide cut away if all else is as it should be?

Paul

Envoyé depuis mon appareil Galaxy

-------- Message d'origine --------

De : Phil Mac <philmac.c...@gmail.com>

Date : 08/07/2021 13:35 (GMT+01:00)

À : Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>

Objet : Re: [guzzi-singles] Substitute carburetor for Airone

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[Alan Comfort]

Are you sure that the throttle slide is not hung up by the cable? With the throttle stop screw fully backed out, the throttle slide bottomed out and the cable adjusted to have 2 mm of free play the engine should not run at all (idle adjustment too low). If the engine runs with the slide fully bottomed out, then you may have an air leak at the carburetor flange or at the connection between the engine and the intake tube. Spray a little carb cleaner on these joints while the engine is running. If the engine speeds up, you have found your leak. 

If that brings no joy, then carefully look at the bottom of the slide and its interface with the carb to see if there is any stray casting material that prevents a full closing of the throttle slide.

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[Luc Racine]

Hi to all, most Jikov come with a 50 pilot, i fitted a 45 but its still a bit rich on tickover and realy does not need a tickle at all when hot.

I dont think a 40 is availlable so i might have to make one some day.

I after checking all the steps described in  Allan 's post and everything seems ok , a smaller pilot jet is what you need (specially if she is 8 stroking)

Good Luck!

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[kste...@gmail.com]

That’s exactly what happened to mine. My inexperienced hands allowed the cable to get hung up and until I fixed it the revs were always too high 

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Thursday, 8 July 2021, 22:11 +1000 from alan.c...@gmail.com <alan.c...@gmail.com>:

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[Roger Rowland]

This may help, while fiddling with a T3 I realised that without much difficulty you could completely cut off one cylinder by lowering the slide ie bottoming it out. The airway must have been completely sealed including air to the pilot jet? Perhaps the Jikov is just open to far ? 

On my Falcone I was also puzzled by the float level and what it should be. On mine I think the needle had 5 groves and the jet itself an internal nut. Why? It almost seemed to be adjustable. The level is far higher than I expected and noticed the needle didn’t always seal,had to lap the cone/seat in.

                           Fixed in my mind was the idea that petrol level is below the main jet, but my recent endeavours have questioned that, the float level appears to be just below hole by pilot jet at the back of the carb. 

                          Another anomaly heard a lot about worn slides etc and noted that there was no seal at the cable entry position. Rode home one day and the throttle stop screw had fallen out a gapping hole the bike ran fine ? Sealing the cables made no difference so can’t see how 4 thou of wear .1mm is going to be critical. Perhaps someone can enlighten me/us. 

The Falcone has a number of odd features that seem to be contrary to normal wisdom in my opinion. 

Sent from my iPhone

On 8 Jul 2021, at 13:11, Alan Comfort <alan.c...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Luc Racine]

Hi to all,

 Most Jikov come with a 50 pilot, I fitted a 45 (available) but its still a bit rich on tickover and really does not need a tickle at all when hot.

I dont think a 40 is available so i might have to make one some day.

 If After checking all the steps described in  Alan's post  everything seems ok , a smaller pilot jet is what you need (specially if she is 8 stroking)

Good Luck!

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[Rick Yamane]

One thing to keep in mind. You need to have more air to have a higher idle. Back out the throttle slide screw all the way and work from there. If the idle still runs high or hangs up after beginning adjustment the first thing I would check for is an air leak. An air leak can also mean a worn slide.

Rick

Be careful too. Not sure about the Jikov concentric but the side float carbs have very thin, light slides. You can probably muck one up by turning in the slide screw and not pulling it up using the grip. The light slide may also add to the difficulty tuning.

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[Rod Schmidt]

Made manifold for gt-17 fitted Jikov, 2nd kick raised slide stop 3/4 turn, less than a half turn more on idle jet.

Never run better. Idles very slow

Happy 

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[Phil Mac]

Thanks for all your suggestions guys - turned out to be the simplest, I didn't have quite enough slack in the cable at the carb end lifting the slide just a fraction when in the 'closed' position. All sorted now. Runs considerably better and seems to start easier too. All bonuses and in addition I can keep running the bike whilst I find someone (Doctor Joe?) to refurb the SSF25

Phil

[Luc Racine]

Hi Phil, i had sent my dellorto to Dr Joe Pletersky (if this is the Joe you mentionned?),

He has redone a good few very old carbs for me succesfully in the past but was unable to undo the bottom nut holding the block without risking to brake the body, heat,freeze etc made no diference and he posted it back.

Worth a try, ...may be...

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[Alan Comfort]

Good to hear and keep up the good work.

Alan in Roberts Creek

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