1950 Airone Sport Magnito

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John Martorano

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Feb 27, 2024, 11:28:34 AMFeb 27
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Hi,

I'm not getting spark from my magneto that's been sitting for at least 10 years.  I guess it's time for a recharge.  Could someone tell me where I can have it done?

Thanks, John

RICHARD YAMANE

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Feb 27, 2024, 12:17:53 PMFeb 27
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First order of business would be to clean and adjust the points. More than likely it's a contact/condenser issue.

Rick Yamane
Importer of Vape/Powerdynamo ignition systems and Polisher of bikes at Motion Pro

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John Moody

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Feb 27, 2024, 12:54:52 PMFeb 27
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If no luck checking all obvious  things convert to a thorspark electroni system it transformed  my airone .

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Alan Comfort

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Feb 27, 2024, 7:46:21 PMFeb 27
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Yes, clean the contact points, clean the carbon brush pickup and contact surface, replace the spark plug with a non-resistor type, replace the spark plug cap (again non-resistor type) & high tension wire with copper core wire and replace the condenser. These are relatively easy and inexpensive repairs. If still no joy, then shell out the big bucks and get the magneto overhauled by a specialist.
Alan in Roberts Creek

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Alan Comfort

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Feb 27, 2024, 7:57:41 PMFeb 27
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Electronic ignitions are certainly the easy way out and sometimes the least expensive way to get an old bike back on the road. My experience has been that magnetos are more reliable and longer lasting. It might cost twice as much to get your mag rebuilt, but if it is done right, you will never have to do it again unless you ride your bike every day, are under 40 years old and plan to ride into your 90's. 
Alan in Roberts Creek

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Roger Rowland

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Feb 28, 2024, 3:25:58 AMFeb 28
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From memory, what memory! The resistance measured between the plug cap n frame (mag body) should be in the region of 5K ohms, this is a check on the cap, lead, connection to secondary coil ( that spring thing) and continuity, insulation of secondary coil. If ok then there’s no much left. Other things I’ve found, the points are difficult to adjust particularly on the bike, replacement point sets seem to have a spring far to strong and not the right length. 
Play in bearings, end float gives radial movement ie the cam is flopping about. To remove the coil think the key needs to be vertical it will slide out otherwise the magnetic field locks it in. When removed placing a piece of 8mm 5/16 key steel across in the same position I could hardly lift with my thumb such is the strength of the field so a sort of crude test of magnetism. When run up on my home made test rig it generated a half-inch spark ! Not recommended however as the more resistance this end may cause a short in the coil. 
I think as mentioned the points are the probable cause 

🤔regards Roger U.K.


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On 28 Feb 2024, at 00:57, Alan Comfort <alan.c...@gmail.com> wrote:



James Friedlander

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Feb 28, 2024, 7:15:49 AMFeb 28
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I've used Marc's Mags in Colchester, CT for many of my old magnetos. He's not fast but is very good and can do any mag. He get them from all over the map.

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Mike Curtis

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Feb 28, 2024, 1:53:06 PMFeb 28
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As a new guy here please allow me to say WOW!!.  Memory indeed!  Just purchased an Airone still in Italy.  I am working by effectively what seems like braille to figure out the most economical way to get it home.  Any assistance or perhaps a contact would be appreciated.  Thanks.  Mike
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On Feb 28, 2024, at 6:15 AM, James Friedlander <jimsb...@gmail.com> wrote:



Roger Rowland

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Feb 28, 2024, 2:47:08 PMFeb 28
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On 28 Feb 2024, at 18:53, 'Mike Curtis' via Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

As a new guy here please allow me to say WOW!!.  Memory indeed!  Just purchased an Airone still in Italy.  I am working by effectively what seems like braille to figure out the most economical way to get it home.  Any assistance or perhaps a contact would be appreciated.  Thanks.  Mike

Roger Rowland

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Feb 28, 2024, 2:50:32 PMFeb 28
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Chaz Mortimer delivers bikes to Europe and collects them often from Italy to U.K. he has storage and probably can arrange shipping to States ? I once flew a bike to Canada not sure if this can still happen due to safety concerns, Chaz would know 

Might help Rog 

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On 28 Feb 2024, at 19:47, Roger Rowland <jamesro...@btinternet.com> wrote:



Mike Curtis

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Feb 28, 2024, 3:29:16 PMFeb 28
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Thanks Rog.  Where do I find Chaz?  Mike
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On Feb 28, 2024, at 1:50 PM, 'Roger Rowland' via Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Chaz Mortimer delivers bikes to Europe and collects them often from Italy to U.K. he has storage and probably can arrange shipping to States ? I once flew a bike to Canada not sure if this can still happen due to safety concerns, Chaz would know 

RICHARD YAMANE

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Feb 28, 2024, 3:40:58 PMFeb 28
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The most economical way will require the help of the seller or someone in Italy. You have the bike broken down and import it as used parts. The engine and frame need to be separated and crated separately.

Rick Yamane
Importer of Vape/Powerdynamo ignition systems and Polisher of bikes at Motion Pro

Gordon de la Mare

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Feb 28, 2024, 3:52:46 PMFeb 28
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I did get a quote from Autoshippers in the UK to ship a Falcone to LA by airfreight and that was £1293 (about $1500).
They mainly ship cars though do bikes.
Hope this helps
Gordon



On Wed, 28 Feb 2024 at 19:50, 'Roger Rowland' via Guzzi Singles

John Martorano

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Feb 28, 2024, 5:11:54 PMFeb 28
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I really appreciate all the help and support I've received from everyone assisting me in get this bike on the road!  So, cleaned the points and brush better this time and checked the points, and now I'm getting spark, although is fairly week.   I went to 3 places to find new non-resister plug cap and wire. No luck at the part houses or on line.  Does anyone know where I can get them?
Thanks again,
John

Mike Curtis

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Feb 28, 2024, 5:28:25 PMFeb 28
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That is a better price than I have gotten from anyone for Genoa to NYC.  I’ll check them.  Thanks
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On Feb 28, 2024, at 2:52 PM, 'Gordon de la Mare' via Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I did get a quote from Autoshippers in the UK to ship a Falcone to LA by airfreight and that was £1293 (about $1500).

Mike Curtis

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Feb 28, 2024, 5:28:25 PMFeb 28
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Just sent these guys an email Gordon.  Their online advertised numbers are way good.  They will crate at their facility (no $ number published).  I will still need to get I to the UK but it looks workable.  Thanks.  
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On Feb 28, 2024, at 2:52 PM, 'Gordon de la Mare' via Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I did get a quote from Autoshippers in the UK to ship a Falcone to LA by airfreight and that was £1293 (about $1500).

Gordon de la Mare

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Feb 28, 2024, 5:34:15 PMFeb 28
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They are in Bristol UK.



On Wed, 28 Feb 2024 at 22:28, 'Mike Curtis' via Guzzi Singles

Rick Yamane

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Feb 28, 2024, 6:45:41 PMFeb 28
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Italian suppliers should have them.

Restoration Supply
Primarily car stuff but the have lots of useful stuff for motorcycles too. They also host a good sized bike and car event in Northern CA every year. They are enthusiasts.
From: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of John Martorano <johntma...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2024 2:11 PM
To: Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] 1950 Airone Sport Magnito
 

Roger Rowland

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Feb 28, 2024, 6:57:04 PMFeb 28
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Chaz Mortimer transport on the Webb think based in Ashford Kent ? 

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On 28 Feb 2024, at 20:52, 'Gordon de la Mare' via Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I did get a quote from Autoshippers in the UK to ship a Falcone to LA by airfreight and that was £1293 (about $1500).

Mac Dennis

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Feb 28, 2024, 7:07:39 PMFeb 28
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They have the ends, wire and…

Mac

Mike Curtis

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Feb 28, 2024, 7:24:02 PMFeb 28
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Charles Mortimer has a very nice website and appears very professional.  The Autoshippers are the same.  Both UK operators.  Autoshippers has prices on their website to many world ports from UK and has what appears to be a very comprehensive crate building function in house.  The pricing is less than 50% of the best of what I have been encountering from Italy.  Depending on the crating price there should be plenty of $$ to figure out the Italy-UK leg.  Autoshippers acknowledged my email immediately.  Emailed Mortimer too.  I’ve been beating my head on the wall for over a week with limited satisfaction and you guys seemed to have dramatically upped my game.  Thanks
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On Feb 28, 2024, at 5:57 PM, 'Roger Rowland' via Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Chaz Mortimer transport on the Webb think based in Ashford Kent ? 
On Tue, 27 Feb 2024, 17:17 RICHARD YAMANE, <richa...@comcast.net> wrote:
First order of business would be to clean and adjust the points. More than likely it's a contact/condenser issue.

Rick Yamane
Importer of Vape/Powerdynamo ignition systems and Polisher of bikes at Motion Pro

On 02/27/2024 8:28 AM PST John Martorano <johntma...@gmail.com> wrote:
 
 
Hi,
 
I'm not getting spark from my magneto that's been sitting for at least 10 years.  I guess it's time for a recharge.  Could someone tell me where I can have it done?
 
Thanks, John

 

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Alan Comfort

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Feb 28, 2024, 8:35:50 PMFeb 28
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It is fairly easy to convert a resistor plug to the non-resistor type. Here is a link to he process:

If you cannot get a nice fat blue spark with the kick starter, work will be needed on the mag if you want the bike to start easily and run well.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/guzzi-singles/05ad0335-27c4-477d-82a0-e6dda17afb60n%40googlegroups.com.

Mac Dennis

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Feb 29, 2024, 8:41:01 AMFeb 29
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Small engine repair shop should have them too!

FYI NGK has stopped making many caps and spark plugs.

Mac

Roger Rowland

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Feb 29, 2024, 9:50:01 AMFeb 29
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Champion still sell them as far as I know, in U.K. the green spark plug company has many classic types 

Regards Roger 

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On 29 Feb 2024, at 13:41, Mac Dennis <capr...@fastmail.fm> wrote:



pouma1954

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Feb 29, 2024, 10:00:31 AMFeb 29
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They must have huge stocks in Europe
 🙂
I even wrote to the european distributor who denied any halt to manufacture.
Paul



Envoyé depuis mon appareil Galaxy


-------- Message d'origine --------
De : Mac Dennis <capr...@fastmail.fm>
Date : 29/02/2024 14:41 (GMT+01:00)
À : Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Objet : Re: [guzzi-singles] 1950 Airone Sport Magnito

Gordon de la Mare

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Feb 29, 2024, 11:00:07 AMFeb 29
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Rick Yamane

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Feb 29, 2024, 11:05:27 AMFeb 29
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They might be the source of counterfeits! I emailed the US office and confirmed it. The nice lady there confirmed the non-resistor plugs had been discontinued. I told her she should let management know they are abandoning the vintage market. I think part of the problem is there are so many different styles of plugs today, manufacturing is operating at capacity. Their OE customers are more important than the retail vintage aftermarket. I guess it is possible they've only been discontinued in the US market. 

In my experience some plugs have steel bodies less resistant to corrosion and more likely to seize into aluminum heads. Champions have been on that list as most of the American plugs are. I first started realizing this back in the seventies. Champion appears to use a zinc coating while NGK uses cad. Bosch seem good and although I didn't used to like them due to 2T fouling they seem much better today, hence my recommendation to use them.
From: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of pouma1954 <poum...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 29, 2024 7:00 AM
To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] 1950 Airone Sport Magnito
 

Patrick Hughes

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Feb 29, 2024, 11:25:44 AMFeb 29
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That’s a really good tip and video.

Non resistor plugs are available from Guzzi Retro if you can’t find them local.

 

Regards
Patrick

 

From: 'Roger Rowland' via Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 29, 2024 2:50 PM
To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] 1950 Airone Sport Magnito

 

Champion still sell them as far as I know, in U.K. the green spark plug company has many classic types 

Andrew Nahum

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Feb 29, 2024, 11:30:42 AMFeb 29
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Yes so far we can buy non resistor plugs in uk no problem. 

I did run iridium NGK for a season in 1956 BMW twin.  (Magneto bike). Can’t say I noticed much difference.  It was only later I read that all the iridium’s were resistor.  I switched to non resistor old style Bosch.  I’ve come think we swap out plugs far too often because it’s the first thing we tend to change when an old bike misfires or won’t start.  I’ve got a bucketful of old ones and I bet they would be mostly good, especially if they got a good cooking from a high speed trip to burn off the muck.  Low-speed traffic riding is a bit of a plug killer because most old bikes run quite rich at low and medium throttle 



On 29 Feb 2024, at 15:00, pouma1954 <poum...@gmail.com> wrote:



guzz...@aol.com

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Feb 29, 2024, 11:45:24 AMFeb 29
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any vintage car shop shop or hot rod shop will have wiring supplies. Tractor supply shops too.
I did hear a rumor that NGK no longer sells non-resistor plug caps. 

Tim

guzz...@aol.com

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Feb 29, 2024, 11:59:20 AMFeb 29
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I can still get non-resistor plugs from NAPA.

Tim

guzz...@aol.com

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Feb 29, 2024, 12:01:38 PMFeb 29
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Never seize on any type of thread surface should be used.

Tim

Roger Rowland

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Feb 29, 2024, 12:23:03 PMFeb 29
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Another discovery reference magneto. Wasn’t very happy with the take off from the mag ie the angle cap with a Biro spring in it. So redesigned one myself with a solid brass pin ( have a tendency to redesign the wheel ). Thought it was a great improvement this attached to new copper lead and non resistor cap, excellent ? On examination of an old coil I unwound the secondary winding to find that the wire size is microscopic, about a human hair size .05mm 2to 4 thou. So this carries the HT current/ voltage and is insulated from the other windings with shellac or whatever. Quite remarkable I thought anyway the Biro spring is huge compared to this so entirely adequate, a total waste of time. 😳
What I also started to make was a knurled ring so that you could alter the timing by simply moving this, rather like a distributor. But as someone said they worked from 1921 to 1967 🤔19th nervous breakdown “reinventing sealing wax “ ( The Stones) 
             Regards Roger 

On 29 Feb 2024, at 16:25, Patrick Hughes <patrick...@harmill.co.uk> wrote:



Andrew Nahum

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Feb 29, 2024, 1:52:21 PMFeb 29
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It does not seem likely that NGK would only sell resistor plug caps if they only make resistor plugs.  One resistor might be ok. No one wants two!  
Loads of classic dealers in Europe sell non-resistor caps. 

On 29 Feb 2024, at 16:45, 'guzz...@aol.com' via Guzzi Singles <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Andrew Nahum

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Feb 29, 2024, 3:18:51 PMFeb 29
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Agree  +++  about never-seize on the plug threads. Also sold as 'copper-slip' or some name like that. Essential in bikes with alloy heads and dodgy ignitions like old Ducatis! Curiously Airones seem to just keep running!  Perhaps I have just been lucky. Marelli magnetos are excellent but old shellac almost always fails because it is hygroscopic. 



RICHARD YAMANE

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Feb 29, 2024, 3:26:26 PMFeb 29
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Anti-seize is a good idea on any threads of dissimilar metals. You get electrolysis between aluminum alloys and steel. Also avoid any silicone sealers that have an acidic/vinegar odor. I only use Permatex Ultras anymore.

Rick Yamane
Importer of Vape/Powerdynamo ignition systems and Polisher of bikes at Motion Pro

guzz...@aol.com

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Mar 1, 2024, 1:17:32 AMMar 1
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Some of my Brit mates say , "copper grease" ...

Tim

Andrew Nahum

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Mar 1, 2024, 2:02:52 AMMar 1
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Yes - that's the stuff.

Andrew Nahum

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Mar 1, 2024, 2:44:10 AMMar 1
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PS - with mysterious ignition problems, and copper-cored cable, which is essential, its often worth snipping off a quarter of an inch and screwing the plug cap back on. The copper strands can get frayed and oxidized, especially at the plug end.

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Mac Dennis

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Mar 2, 2024, 4:40:46 PMMar 2
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I been using Bostik nickel never-seez for years on all plugs, exhaust rings, exhaust studs… 
Never a problem.

Mac
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