Re: [guzzi-singles] Digest for guzzi-singles@googlegroups.com - 25 Messages in 2 Topics
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Lewis Meyer
Apr 4, 2013, 1:34:55 PM4/4/13
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Since they're coming from Italy I think Mac is trying to say that the shipping fee is $40 and up. Cheapest radelli rim they on that site is 50 euros, so it's an investment.
If I were looking at another supplier, what's the width on the Stornello rims? I haven't yet cut my tires off to investigate.On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 8:16 AM, <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Group: http://groups.google.com/group/guzzi-singles/topics
- Finally, [23 Updates]
- 17" Radaelli Rim? [2 Updates]
Buzz Kanter <buzzk...@gmail.com> Apr 02 02:22PM -0400
*Please Help Me Better Understand My Airone.*
I have a 1955 Moto Guzzi airone militaire. I have the owner's manual but do
not speak Italian. I have been working on and riding my bike for a couple
of years (including two Moto-Giro USA competitions) but still have many
questions about how best to maintain it.
1. Oil recommendations? I am told straight weight 30 or 40 mineral oil.
Does it really matter if is it 30 or 40 or a 10-40 weight?
2. To change the oil I drain the oil tank under the gas tank. Is this
sufficient or do other recommend draining the oil lines too?
3. I add the fresh oil to the oil tank filler. I have been using 10-30 or
10-40 mineral oil and it seems to be OK.
4. I do open the small drain bolt almost behind the exposed flywheel.
5. Please explain to me the two small filler bolts above the transmission,
just aft of the flywheel. Do I add oil to either or both of these? I
believe I was told one or both of these are for cleaning the clutch plates.
How would this work - details please.
6. Recommendations on lubricating the front forks? Does lubing it through
the grease fittings suffice?
7. Anything else I need to be aware of (besides the obvious items like
greased and adjusted drive chain, tire pressure, etc).
Thanks,
Buzz Kanter
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Patrick Hayes <peh...@comcast.net> Apr 02 12:02PM -0700
On 4/2/2013 11:22 AM, Buzz Kanter wrote:
> 1. Oil recommendations? I am told straight weight 30 or 40 mineral
> oil. Does it really matter if is it 30 or 40 or a 10-40 weight?
Oil threads are full of opinions. I think 30 is perhaps too thin. 40
or even 50. There is no oil filter as such. Multi-grade oils have
detergents to keep impurities in suspension for filtration. I think you
want to stick with single grad.
> 2. To change the oil I drain the oil tank under the gas tank. Is this
> sufficient or do other recommend draining the oil lines too?
If it is a running bike, then siphoning out the tank is probably
adequate. The scavenge pump keeps oil out of the sump. If it sits a
long time there might be oil in the sump. If necessary to drain the
sump, just remove the short, 90-degree oil line below and behind the oil
pump. You'd have to be REALLY anal to remove and blow out all the oil
lines. The risk to compression threads is way more than the risk of a
small percentage of old oil. Oil is cheap in comparison to parts and
labor. If you are concerned, just do it more frequently and the
contamination from oil in the lines becomes diluted and inconsequential.
> 4. I do open the small drain bolt almost behind the exposed
> flywheel.
That is only for draining the clutch chamber. Some oil gets out here
and there is no way for it to get back into the motor. Eventually it
will leak from the crankshaft hole in the left cover. Time to drain and
clean.
> transmission, just aft of the flywheel. Do I add oil to either or
> both of these? I believe I was told one or both of these are for
> cleaning the clutch plates. How would this work - details please.
One hole is for adding mineral spirits to wash off the clutch parts.
The other is merely an access cap for the crankcase breather. The
breather consists of a steel ball bearing. Under pressure, the ball
lifts and relieves. Gravity drops it back down. If you pull its cap
you will likely see a very shiny 'ding' in the middle of the cap to show
where the ball is occasionally striking it. See the further tutorial below.
> 6. Recommendations on lubricating the front forks? Does lubing it
> through the grease fittings suffice?
Go easy on the grease. Use a heavy formula but not much of it. It
eventually will degrade and leak down the stanchions. There is also
internal oil but that is for damping, not lubrication. Unless you have
tipped the bike upside down, the damping oil is still in there.
> 7. Anything else I need to be aware of (besides the obvious items
> like greased and adjusted drive chain, tire pressure, etc).
The original design used a crossing passage from the clutch chamber back
over to the chain. Mist created an automatic oiler. Now that quality
sprays are available, most consider tapping and blocking that passage
hole to reduce chain mess.
BUZZ, here is a pictorial tutorial I did several years back. This is
for SuperAlce. Some of the parts shape and orientation will be slightly
different, but the engineering design idea is consistent among the
models. The pictures are still active.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Several people are currently experiencing noisy gear change action and
poor clutch performance on cold starts. Time for a refresher on the
clutch design and the required periodic method of bathing the parts.
The Guzzi-Single clutch is composed of a stacked sandwich of 5 steel and
5 bronze plates. The steel plates are connected in their center to the
clutch fixed body hub on the primary shaft of the transmission. The
bronze plates are connected at their perimeter to the gear-like outer
body basket. There may be one or two friction material rings installed
at the base of this stack as well. The outer body basket may run on a
continuous core bushing or it may have a packet of loose rollers. All
of these options depend on which model and year you have, but the
multi-plate design and basic operation are all the same.
Here are pictures of a used plate stack and a fresh stack already
installed into my SuperAlce.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-719X.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-718X.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-720X.jpg
When the clutch is bound by its spring, the stack of plates and all of
the clutch components rotate as an intact, unit mass. When you pull on
the clutch handle, the spring pressure is countered or relieved and the
various pieces are released and allowed to move independently. In
theory, the stacked sandwich parts should all slip smoothly over each
otther so that the outer body remains spinning with the motor, while the
inner body remains stationary. This allows you to remain in gear with
the engine running.
In addition to these parts, there is a small passage at the top of the
crankcase which allows for a fine mist of air and engine oil to pass
from the crankcase chamber to the exterior clutch chamber.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-723X.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-724X.jpg
(the zip tie is in place just to demonstrate the oil passage route)
This mist of oil lubricates all the parts in the clutch chamber,
including the plates, and eventually condenses into a puddle in the
clutch chamber. It is a total loss system. There is no way for this oil
to get back into the engine case. Eventually, this condensed puddle
grows to the level that the bottom of the clutch parts are sitting in a
pool of oil and any further excess starts to leak out behind the
flywheel where the crankshaft passes through the clutch chamber. There
is no seal for this passage. This blue tape represents the maximum
depth of oil puddle within the clutch chamber before it will simply pour
out the crankshaft hole.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-722X.jpg
Guzzi didn't want to waste this oil mist, so there is also a
crossing passage which goes from the clutch chamber back to the right
side in the vicinity of the chain drive sprocket. Some of the oil mist
works its way out over here and drips onto the chain as an automatic
oiler. Clever, but messy. Many of us plug that cross passage to reduce
the mess and we then relay on modern chain sprays. You can see my plug
here.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-717X.jpg
Warm, thin, clean oil is a very nice substance to put onto the clutch
plates. It lubricates everything for smooth action and minimizes wear.
However, cold, dirty oil acts more like a glue than a lubricant and
prevents free action of the plates. The various clutch pieces all bind
together and fail to slip as intended. It can become very noisy to
shift gears, especially down into first gear. The noise also produces
damage to the tips of the gear teeth. The COMPLETE CURE is to fully
disassemble the entire clutch package and clean all the parts to new
condition.
The INTERMEDIATE MAINTENANCE solution is the BATHE the clutch parts to
remove any oil or dirt or wear material and restore original action.
Here is the procedure. It will be a VERY messy job so protect your
floor and be prepared for hazardous disposals.
First, at the lower rear curve of the clutch cover plate, there will be
a small, slotted screw-plug. Remove that to drain away all of the
condensed puddle of oil. Here is the drain plug at the lower rear of
the clutch cover.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-721X.jpg
Flipping the cover over, you may be able to see the interior tip of this
drain plug at the lower left.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-722X.jpg
Second, at the top of the left side crankcase you will find an engine
breather tube which returns crankcase pressure and oil mist back to the
oil reservoir tank. Adjacent to that breather tube is a slotted plug
which leads directly to the clutch chamber below.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-723X.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-724X.jpg
(the zip tie is in place just to demonstrate the oil passage route)
Third, introduce a pint of 'paint thinner' into the clutch chamber via
the upper plug. If you put too much, it will simply run out the opening
behind the flywheel.
CAUTION: In America, paint thinner is also known
as mineral spirits. It is a good solvent, but not particularly volatile
or harsh to painted surfaces. In Europe however, the term 'paint
thinner' refers to something Americans call lacquer thinner. This
latter material is highly flammable and an instant paint remover and
should NOT be used for this cleaning purpose. In a pinch, you can use
gasoline. But please don't smoke while working.
Fourth, push the kickstarter repeatedly. While doing so, pull on the
clutch handle slightly so that the engine does not turn over but the
kickstarter does go through full throw. In this way, the kickstarter
will be rotating the inner body and steel plates, while engine
compression will be holding back the external body and bronze plates.
The paint thinner will remove oil, grime, and wear contaminants from the
clutch parts and drop them into the bottom of the clutch chamber cover.
Do this kicking and feathering for several minutes.
Fifth, remove the plug at the rear lower corner of the clutch cover and
drain away the contaminated paint thinner. Although dirty, it might be
useful for other rough part washing tasks around your shop. Let it
settle for a week so you can decant the liquid off of the settled sludge.
Sixth, repeat steps three through five, perhaps a total of three rinse
cycles.
Seventh, clean up your mess and go for a ride. It will likely be
several months or a year before you need to repeat this procedure
depending on your miles driven.
As a TEMPORARY AID before you have an opportunity to perform the more
involved bathing or disassembly tasks you can assist the releasing of
the cold clutch plates. You will generally find that shifting from
neutral into second gear is a lot easier than shifting down into first.
So, on a cold started motor, shift into second. Gently rev the motor
slightly, and, while holding the hand or foot brake, feather release the
clutch handle a few times so that you force a slippage of the plates
several times. Do this almost to the point of stalling the motor. This
will quickly heat the oil film which is binding the plates and the
underlying components. You may now be able to return to idle and more
quietly shift into first gear.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Guzz...@aol.com Apr 02 03:25PM -0400
Buzz......most of the guys use a straight wt. oil from what I've gathered.
I use 20w50 because it's more available in my area and I'm cheap. There is
the filter or screen inside your oil tank that screws out you may want to
check. And you can flush the tank out better with that removed. When I
change oil I remove all lines and drain any residual that might be left behind.
And I go as far as to tilt the bike to the side to drain as much as I can
from the crankcase.
The small bolt behind the flywheel is there to drain any accumulation from
the misting that chamber gets from the crankcase. Usually only about a
teaspoon or so comes out if any.The manual says to wash out the clutch plates
by putting some mineral spirits in that top hole and kick over the engine
at the same time to wash off the plates. Then drain out that from the small
hole behind the flywheel. The manual contradicts it's self in one breath
says it should be a dry clutch and then says add an ounce of oil when done.
I don't add any, I let the breather do it for me. I have only washed my
clutch when it starts to get grabby or feels like it's slipping.
I have yet to do a full fork service. There are fork seals so I'm only
guessing there is fork oil of some kind. I have cleaned my concentric blocks of
there old grease though to keep them happy. You can pull the covers off
easy enough to check the condition of the grease.
Other than the normal wear & tear maintenance you know about this is all I
can think of for now. Others will chime in to fill in the blanks and or
make corrections.
,,,,,,,Tim
In a message dated 4/2/2013 1:22:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
buzzk...@gmail.com writes:
Please Help Me Better Understand My Airone.
I have a 1955 Moto Guzzi airone militaire. I have the owner's manual but
do not speak Italian. I have been working on and riding my bike for a couple
of years (including two Moto-Giro USA competitions) but still have many
questions about how best to maintain it.
1. Oil recommendations? I am told straight weight 30 or 40 mineral oil.
Does it really matter if is it 30 or 40 or a 10-40 weight?
2. To change the oil I drain the oil tank under the gas tank. Is this
sufficient or do other recommend draining the oil lines too?
3. I add the fresh oil to the oil tank filler. I have been using 10-30 or
10-40 mineral oil and it seems to be OK.
4. I do open the small drain bolt almost behind the exposed flywheel.
5. Please explain to me the two small filler bolts above the transmission,
just aft of the flywheel. Do I add oil to either or both of these? I
believe I was told one or both of these are for cleaning the clutch plates. How
would this work - details please.
6. Recommendations on lubricating the front forks? Does lubing it through
the grease fittings suffice?
7. Anything else I need to be aware of (besides the obvious items like
greased and adjusted drive chain, tire pressure, etc).
Thanks,
Buzz Kanter
On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 12:25 AM, Alan Comfort <_alan....@gmail.com_
(mailto:alan.c...@gmail.com) > wrote:
My Astore has a similar amount of clearance in this interface. It has gone
about 2500 miles without issues.
Alan in Vancouver
On 2013-03-30, at 5:53 PM, Jerome Kimberlin wrote:
On 3/30/2013 5:13 PM, Patrick Hayes wrote:
>> to the tangs on the pinion gear. cutouts measure 10.1mm and the tangs
>> are right around 9.76mm. Acceptable? repairable?
> No expertise here. Jerry Kimberlin might know. There is quite a bit of
linear spring force behind that gear once the flywheel is installed.
Because it is helical cut, it is going to have to push in against the spring in
order to move circularly within the slop. I doubt it is a factor. I don't
know if a design spec exists.
I don't know either. It's just a dog coupling and these things are not
terribly tight in the first place. I'd think that 0.3-0.4 mm is OK in this
application. I suppose you could Google "dog clutch backlash" or "dog
coupling specs" and you might find something more.
JerryK
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Rick <ri...@motionpro.com> Apr 02 07:51PM
Some of my thoughts on choosing an oil.....
I like to base things on whatever the manufacturer recommended. Reasons are simple. That is what the engine was designed for and despite what modern oil technology has come about, the engine, unless rebuilt to modern clearances and materials hasn't changed in what it needs to survive. In 1955 I don't believe multi-vis oils had been developed yet and as such the engines were not built to run them. Doesn't mean you can't run them but the advantages of a multi-vis oil had not yet been taken into account. Most likely if the manufacturer had designed the engine for straight 40w, a 10w-40 may not necessarily be good.
On the other hand a straight 40w or 50w in an engine designed for a 20w-50 may also be detrimental. A month or two ago there was a discussion on the Ducati Bevelheads list where I know some of you also reside at. A member posted something about how a heavier grade of oil than what is recommended could actually cause ball and roller bearings to skid. Much like how a boat has to push its way through the water a ball or roller bearing has to push through oil. It's not hard to visualize how too thick of an oil will try to keep the bearing from rolling.
Rick Yamane
Motion Pro Inc.
We Ride! We Wrench! We Race!
867 American St.
San Carlos, CA 94070
(650)594-9600
(650)594-9610 Fax
ri...@motionpro.com<mailto:ri...@motionpro.com>
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<http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/documents/catalogs/>
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Alan Comfort <alan.c...@gmail.com> Apr 02 01:12PM -0700
It is my view that bikes without oil filters should run with straight grade, non-detergent mineral based oil that is changed frequently. I run 30W in the winter, and 50W in the summer. When I bought my Astore with a failed big end, the cause of the failure was apparent. The sludge trap and oil ways in the crankshaft were packed solid with a material that resembled hardened clay. No oil was getting past that blockage.
Alan in Vancouver
On 2013-04-02, at 12:51 PM, Rick wrote:
Some of my thoughts on choosing an oil…..
I like to base things on whatever the manufacturer recommended. Reasons are simple. That is what the engine was designed for and despite what modern oil technology has come about, the engine, unless rebuilt to modern clearances and materials hasn’t changed in what it needs to survive. In 1955 I don’t believe multi-vis oils had been developed yet and as such the engines were not built to run them. Doesn’t mean you can’t run them but the advantages of a multi-vis oil had not yet been taken into account. Most likely if the manufacturer had designed the engine for straight 40w, a 10w-40 may not necessarily be good.
On the other hand a straight 40w or 50w in an engine designed for a 20w-50 may also be detrimental. A month or two ago there was a discussion on the Ducati Bevelheads list where I know some of you also reside at. A member posted something about how a heavier grade of oil than what is recommended could actually cause ball and roller bearings to skid. Much like how a boat has to push its way through the water a ball or roller bearing has to push through oil. It’s not hard to visualize how too thick of an oil will try to keep the bearing from rolling.
Rick Yamane
Motion Pro Inc.
We Ride! We Wrench! We Race!
867 American St.
San Carlos, CA 94070
(650)594-9600
(650)594-9610 Fax
ri...@motionpro.com
www.motionpro.com
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"James Francis" <jfra...@etidewater.com> Apr 02 04:17PM -0400
Alan,
What brand is the non-detergent 50wt ?
Thanks
Wicker Francis
From: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:guzzi-...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Alan Comfort
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 4:12 PM
To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] An oil thread?
It is my view that bikes without oil filters should run with straight grade,
non-detergent mineral based oil that is changed frequently. I run 30W in the
winter, and 50W in the summer. When I bought my Astore with a failed big
end, the cause of the failure was apparent. The sludge trap and oil ways in
the crankshaft were packed solid with a material that resembled hardened
clay. No oil was getting past that blockage.
Alan in Vancouver
On 2013-04-02, at 12:51 PM, Rick wrote:
Buzz Kanter <buzzk...@gmail.com> Apr 02 05:19PM -0400
Wonderful info. After reading through this I now have a MUCH greater
understanding of the oiling and clutch operation. And I can stop trying to
fill the clutch chamber through the small top filler :-)
No wonder I was getting so much oil out of the small drain behind the
flywheel. I plan to try Patrick's method of cleaning the clutch plates with
American paint thinner. It might help the shifting smooth out.
Thanks to all.
This modern Moto Guzzi sure is different in design to the old Harleys and
Indians I ride and wrench on most of the time.
Buzz
--
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Gordon de la Mare <gordo...@yahoo.com> Apr 02 03:23PM -0700
Just a short note on oil.
I tend to use either Silkolene Donnington straight 40 non-detergent or Morris Golden Film 40 Classic but both seem to only be available in UK/EU.
.
The rationale for non or low detergent oil is nicely written upon the Morris website:
Golden Film Classic Oils are recommended for use in veteran, classic and vintage cars, motorcycles, commercial vehicles and tractors, where engine design and tolerances prohibit the use of modern multigrade, high additive level oils. Modern dispersant additives keep combustion chamber contamination suspended in the lubricant, allowing full flow cartridge filters to remove it. Early oil filtration, usually in the form of a mesh gauze or strainer, is not efficient enough to remove this suspended material. Golden Film Oils are low dispersant oils and allow the suspended matter to drop harmlessly into the sump.
Cheers
Gordon
________________________________
From: Buzz Kanter <buzzk...@gmail.com>
To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 2 April 2013, 22:19
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Finally,
Wonderful info. After reading through this I now have a MUCH greater understanding of the oiling and clutch operation. And I can stop trying to fill the clutch chamber through the small top filler :-)
No wonder I was getting so much oil out of the small drain behind the flywheel. I plan to try Patrick's method of cleaning the clutch plates with American paint thinner. It might help the shifting smooth out.
Thanks to all.
This modern Moto Guzzi sure is different in design to the old Harleys and Indians I ride and wrench on most of the time.
Buzz
>Buzz......most of the guys use a straight wt. oil from what I've gathered.
I use 20w50 because it's more available in my area and I'm cheap. There is the
filter or screen inside your oil tank that screws out you may want to
check. And you can flush the tank out better with that removed. When I
change oil I remove all lines and drain any residual that might be left behind.
And I go as far as to tilt the bike to the side to drain as much as I can
from the crankcase.
>
>The small bolt behind the flywheel is there to drain any accumulation from
the misting that chamber gets from the crankcase. Usually only about a
teaspoon or so comes out if any.The manual says to wash out the clutch
plates by putting some mineral spirits in that top hole and kick over the engine
at the same time to wash off the plates. Then drain
out that from the small hole behind the flywheel. The manual
contradicts it's self in one breath says it should be a dry clutch and then says
add an ounce of oil when done. I don't add any, I let the breather do it for
me. I have only washed my clutch when it starts to get grabby or
feels like it's slipping.
>
>I have yet to do a full fork service. There are fork seals so I'm only
guessing there is fork oil of some kind. I have cleaned my concentric blocks of
there old grease though to keep them happy. You can pull the covers off easy
enough to check the condition of the grease.
>
>Other than the normal wear & tear maintenance you know about this is
all I can think of for now. Others will chime in to fill in the blanks and or
make corrections.
>>>Alan in Vancouver
>>>On 2013-03-30, at 5:53 PM, Jerome Kimberlin wrote:
>>>On
3/30/2013 5:13 PM, Patrick Hayes wrote:
>>>> On 3/30/2013
5:00 PM, Mike Peavey wrote:
>>>>> Patrick, so with the wear in the
cutouts in my flywheel that mate to
>>>>> the pinion gear tangs, there
was about .3mm to .4mm of slop compared
>>>>> to the tangs on the
pinion gear. cutouts measure 10.1mm and the tangs
>>>>> are right
around 9.76mm. Acceptable? repairable?
>>>> No expertise
here. Jerry Kimberlin might know. There is quite a bit of linear
spring force behind that gear once the flywheel is installed. Because it is
helical cut, it is going to have to push in against the spring in order to
move circularly within the slop. I doubt it is a factor. I don't
know if a design spec exists.
>>>I don't know either. It's just a
dog coupling and these things are not terribly tight in the first place.
I'd think that 0.3-0.4 mm is OK in this application. I suppose
you could Google "dog clutch backlash" or "dog coupling specs" and you might
find something more.
>>>JerryK
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>>RoadBike
>>Classic American Iron--
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Don West <donwe...@yahoo.co.uk> Apr 03 01:04AM +0100
Ihave never tried it myself but this has been recommended by others to translate pdf manuals to English. Let us know if it works
http://www.labnol.org/internet/tools/translate-pdf-word-documents-online-google-translate/3553/
Might help with understanding the original Italian manual.
Don
________________________________
From: Buzz Kanter <buzzk...@gmail.com>
To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 2 April 2013, 19:22
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Finally,
Please Help Me Better Understand My Airone.
I have a 1955 Moto Guzzi airone militaire. I have the owner's manual but do not speak Italian. I have been working on and riding my bike for a couple of years (including two Moto-Giro USA competitions) but still have many questions about how best to maintain it.
1. Oil recommendations? I am told straight weight 30 or 40 mineral oil. Does it really matter if is it 30 or 40 or a 10-40 weight?
2. To change the oil I drain the oil tank under the gas tank. Is this sufficient or do other recommend draining the oil lines too?
3. I add the fresh oil to the oil tank filler. I have been using 10-30 or 10-40 mineral oil and it seems to be OK.
4. I do open the small drain bolt almost behind the exposed flywheel.
5. Please explain to me the two small filler bolts above the transmission, just aft of the flywheel. Do I add oil to either or both of these? I believe I was told one or both of these are for cleaning the clutch plates. How would this work - details please.
6. Recommendations on lubricating the front forks? Does lubing it through the grease fittings suffice?
7. Anything else I need to be aware of (besides the obvious items like greased and adjusted drive chain, tire pressure, etc).
Thanks,
Buzz Kanter
On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 12:25 AM, Alan Comfort <alan.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
My Astore has a similar amount of clearance in this interface. It has gone about 2500 miles without issues.
>To post to this group, send email to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com.
>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/guzzi-singles?hl=en.
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Buzz Kanter <buzzk...@gmail.com> Apr 02 08:39PM -0400
Thanks. Anyone have any suggestions on sources of non-detergent 40 weight
oils here in the US?
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Pollorey <phil...@nycap.rr.com> Apr 02 09:52PM -0400
http://www.amazon.com/Accel-22242-SAE-Non-Detergent-Motor/dp/B0052KY266/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1364953823&sr=1-3&keywords=Non-Detergent+Motor+Oil+40w
All the best,
Phil
On 4/2/2013 8:39 PM, Buzz Kanter wrote:
Alan Comfort <alan.c...@gmail.com> Apr 02 06:57PM -0700
About fifteen years ago i bought a 30 gallon steel drum of Elf 50 W oil from a local distributor who was closing out. I am still working my way through that. I also bought some cases of semi synthetic oiI at the same time. I never thought i would get through it all, but it is now getting low. it turns out to have been a good investment.
I believe that PureGuard still sells 5 gallon pails and I am pretty sure that I have seen a heavy duty diesel in-house brand of non-detergent motor oil at Canadian Tire. It has been some years since I have been in a Harley shop, but I recall seeing some straight grade oils on the shelf at that time. They may not carry that sort of thing anymore.
Regards, Alan in Vancouver
On 2013-04-02, at 1:17 PM, James Francis wrote:
Alan,
What brand is the non-detergent 50wt ?
Thanks
Wicker Francis
From: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:guzzi-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alan Comfort
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 4:12 PM
To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] An oil thread?
It is my view that bikes without oil filters should run with straight grade, non-detergent mineral based oil that is changed frequently. I run 30W in the winter, and 50W in the summer. When I bought my Astore with a failed big end, the cause of the failure was apparent. The sludge trap and oil ways in the crankshaft were packed solid with a material that resembled hardened clay. No oil was getting past that blockage.
Alan in Vancouver
On 2013-04-02, at 12:51 PM, Rick wrote:
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Guzz...@aol.com Apr 02 09:58PM -0400
Morris Golden oil advertises in motorcycle classics magazine
..........804-261-4140 or email at
_classic...@aol.com_ (mailto:classico...@aol.com)
Tim
In a message dated 4/2/2013 7:39:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
buzzk...@gmail.com writes:
Thanks. Anyone have any suggestions on sources of non-detergent 40 weight
oils here in the US?
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Gordon de la Mare <_gord...@yahoo.com_
(mailto:gordo...@yahoo.com) > wrote:
Just a short note on oil.
I tend to use either Silkolene Donnington straight 40 non-detergent or
Morris Golden Film 40 Classic but both seem to only be available in UK/EU.
.
The rationale for non or low detergent oil is nicely written upon the
Morris website:
Golden Film Classic Oils are recommended for use in veteran, classic and
vintage cars, motorcycles, commercial vehicles and tractors, where engine
design and tolerances prohibit the use of modern multigrade, high additive
level oils. Modern dispersant additives keep combustion chamber contamination
suspended in the lubricant, allowing full flow cartridge filters to remove
it. Early oil filtration, usually in the form of a mesh gauze or strainer,
is not efficient enough to remove this suspended material. Golden Film
Oils are low dispersant oils and allow the suspended matter to drop harmlessly
into the sump.
Cheers
Gordon
____________________________________
From: Buzz Kanter <_buzz...@gmail.com_ (mailto:buzzk...@gmail.com) >
To: _guzzi-...@googlegroups.com_
(mailto:guzzi-...@googlegroups.com)
Sent: Tuesday, 2 April 2013, 22:19
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Finally,
Wonderful info. After reading through this I now have a MUCH greater
understanding of the oiling and clutch operation. And I can stop trying to fill
the clutch chamber through the small top filler :-)
No wonder I was getting so much oil out of the small drain behind the
flywheel. I plan to try Patrick's method of cleaning the clutch plates with
American paint thinner. It might help the shifting smooth out.
Thanks to all.
This modern Moto Guzzi sure is different in design to the old Harleys and
Indians I ride and wrench on most of the time.
Buzz
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:25 PM, <_Guz...@aol.com_
(mailto:Guzz...@aol.com) > wrote:
Buzz......most of the guys use a straight wt. oil from what I've gathered.
I use 20w50 because it's more available in my area and I'm cheap. There is
the filter or screen inside your oil tank that screws out you may want to
check. And you can flush the tank out better with that removed. When I
change oil I remove all lines and drain any residual that might be left behind.
And I go as far as to tilt the bike to the side to drain as much as I can
from the crankcase.
The small bolt behind the flywheel is there to drain any accumulation from
the misting that chamber gets from the crankcase. Usually only about a
teaspoon or so comes out if any.The manual says to wash out the clutch plates
by putting some mineral spirits in that top hole and kick over the engine
at the same time to wash off the plates. Then drain out that from the small
hole behind the flywheel. The manual contradicts it's self in one breath
says it should be a dry clutch and then says add an ounce of oil when done.
I don't add any, I let the breather do it for me. I have only washed my
clutch when it starts to get grabby or feels like it's slipping.
I have yet to do a full fork service. There are fork seals so I'm only
guessing there is fork oil of some kind. I have cleaned my concentric blocks
of there old grease though to keep them happy. You can pull the covers off
easy enough to check the condition of the grease.
Other than the normal wear & tear maintenance you know about this is all I
can think of for now. Others will chime in to fill in the blanks and or
make corrections.
,,,,,,,Tim
In a message dated 4/2/2013 1:22:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
_buzz...@gmail.com_ (mailto:buzzk...@gmail.com) writes:
Please Help Me Better Understand My Airone.
I have a 1955 Moto Guzzi airone militaire. I have the owner's manual but
do not speak Italian. I have been working on and riding my bike for a couple
of years (including two Moto-Giro USA competitions) but still have many
questions about how best to maintain it.
1. Oil recommendations? I am told straight weight 30 or 40 mineral oil.
Does it really matter if is it 30 or 40 or a 10-40 weight?
2. To change the oil I drain the oil tank under the gas tank. Is this
sufficient or do other recommend draining the oil lines too?
3. I add the fresh oil to the oil tank filler. I have been using 10-30 or
10-40 mineral oil and it seems to be OK.
4. I do open the small drain bolt almost behind the exposed flywheel.
5. Please explain to me the two small filler bolts above the transmission,
just aft of the flywheel. Do I add oil to either or both of these? I
believe I was told one or both of these are for cleaning the clutch plates. How
would this work - details please.
6. Recommendations on lubricating the front forks? Does lubing it through
the grease fittings suffice?
7. Anything else I need to be aware of (besides the obvious items like
greased and adjusted drive chain, tire pressure, etc).
Thanks,
Buzz Kanter
On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 12:25 AM, Alan Comfort <_alan....@gmail.com_
(mailto:alan.c...@gmail.com) > wrote:
My Astore has a similar amount of clearance in this interface. It has
gone about 2500 miles without issues.
Alan in Vancouver
On 2013-03-30, at 5:53 PM, Jerome Kimberlin wrote:
On 3/30/2013 5:13 PM, Patrick Hayes wrote:
>> to the tangs on the pinion gear. cutouts measure 10.1mm and the tangs
>> are right around 9.76mm. Acceptable? repairable?
> No expertise here. Jerry Kimberlin might know. There is quite a bit of
linear spring force behind that gear once the flywheel is installed.
Because it is helical cut, it is going to have to push in against the spring in
order to move circularly within the slop. I doubt it is a factor. I
don't know if a design spec exists.
I don't know either. It's just a dog coupling and these things are not
terribly tight in the first place. I'd think that 0.3-0.4 mm is OK in this
application. I suppose you could Google "dog clutch backlash" or "dog
coupling specs" and you might find something more.
JerryK
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"DENIS BELOTTI" <den...@internext.co.za> Apr 03 07:47AM +0200
Hi Patrick
Just a quick question about the front forks for my 1958 Falcone.
I have greased the forks but when I drive over a bump in the road it bangs
when the forks drop down.
It is quite a loud noise and it concerns me.
Is there a reason for this and what is a possible solution?
Regards
Denis Belotti
E-mail: den...@internext.co.za
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Hayes" <peh...@comcast.net>
To: <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Finally,
> http://www.eset.com
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8186 (20130402) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
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Alan Comfort <alan.c...@gmail.com> Apr 03 03:41AM -0700
Have you checked the oil level in the hydraulic dampers?
On 2013-04-02, at 10:47 PM, DENIS BELOTTI wrote:
Hi Patrick
Just a quick question about the front forks for my 1958 Falcone.
I have greased the forks but when I drive over a bump in the road it bangs when the forks drop down.
It is quite a loud noise and it concerns me.
Is there a reason for this and what is a possible solution?
Regards
Denis Belotti
E-mail: den...@internext.co.za
----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Hayes" <peh...@comcast.net>
To: <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Finally,
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> http://www.eset.com
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8186 (20130402) __________
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Mike Peavey <mpe...@comcast.net> Apr 03 07:11AM -0400
Aeroshell makes straight mineral oil for aircraft engines in SAE 30, 40, 50&60 weight, with alleged no additives what so ever. One wonders, but of course aircraft engines live most of their lives turning 2000-2800rpm., but still air-cooled.
Normally if something is aviation related, you add $$$$ to the cost, but this isn't bad.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/aeroshelloils6.php?clickkey=9079
I'll ask the guys in the maintenance shop, one of whom, has older bikes and get his take.
Mike
"James Francis" <jfra...@etidewater.com> Apr 03 07:16AM -0400
This product does not have detergents since it's formulated for
non-combustion applications and may be more readily available from a Mobil
distributor.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENINDMOMobil_DTE_Named.aspx
Note the reference to roller bearings and anti foaming properties.
Wicker Francis
Nick Thomas <ne...@mindspring.com> Apr 03 06:15AM -0700
I've been messing with my forks recently and had a similar problem. At the very top of the forks there's a secondary spring. it sits on a nut on that long damper bolt. According to the manual diagram you need to hold that spring between the fork caps and the nut. So if the nut is too far down there's more play and the springs bang around while you're driving.
I'd be interested in other's experience, but I can't find any way to check the fluid level without getting the forks apart and out of the bike. And you will probably mess up your seals doing this so have a set handy before you start. As far as I can tell the whole idea of easily measuring the oil level with a ruler while the forks are inside the fork tubes is fiction.
-Nick
"DENIS BELOTTI" <den...@internext.co.za> Apr 03 03:17PM +0200
Hi Alan
Could you please guide me through it?
Regards
Denis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Comfort" <alan.c...@gmail.com>
To: <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Finally,
> http://www.eset.com
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8188 (20130403) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
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Guzz...@aol.com Apr 03 12:14PM -0400
Nick,,,,,,,, most modern bikes now have a tool with a rod on it you adjust
that measures fork oil now. Not a measured amount number listed in the
manual like in the old says. So I used a length of wire and keep poking it in
until I see oil on the wire. Then measure the wire. With the forks empty
pour oil in until it hits the wire again. Keep track of the amount poured in
for future reference.
,,,Tim
In a message dated 4/3/2013 8:15:57 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
ne...@mindspring.com writes:
I'd be interested in other's experience, but I can't find any way to check
the fluid level without getting the forks apart and out of the bike. And
you will probably mess up your seals doing this so have a set handy before
you start. As far as I can tell the whole idea of easily measuring the
oil level with a ruler while the forks are inside the fork tubes is fiction.
-Nick
ne...@mindspring.com Apr 03 09:30AM -0700
What I'm saying is that you can't measure the oil level without removing the damper. And you can't remove the damper without disassembling the forks, and that messes up the seals. The manual make it look like you can just unscrew the top cap and check the oil level. You can't.
-----Original Message-----
From: Guzz...@aol.com
Sent: Apr 3, 2013 9:14 AM
To: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Finally,
Nick,,,,,,,, most modern bikes now have a tool with a rod on it you adjust that measures fork oil now. Not a measured amount number listed in the manual like in the old says. So I used a length of wire and keep poking it in until I see oil on the wire. Then measure the wire. With the forks empty pour oil in until it hits the wire again. Keep track of the amount poured in for future reference.
,,,Tim
In a message dated 4/3/2013 8:15:57 AM Central Daylight Time, ne...@mindspring.com writes:
I'd be interested in other's experience, but I can't find any way to check the fluid level without getting the forks apart and out of the bike. And you will probably mess up your seals doing this so have a set handy before you start. As far as I can tell the whole idea of easily measuring the oil level with a ruler while the forks are inside the fork tubes is fiction.
-Nick
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Alan Comfort <alan.c...@gmail.com> Apr 03 04:09PM -0700
Hello Denis,
Remove the acorn nut at the top of the fork. Unscrew the fork cap and remove it with the rebound spring. If the rebound spring has separated from the cap, that could be the source of the noise. It is held in place with an internal washer and a nut on the damper rod. You will need to make a tube spanner* to unscrew the internal plug and slowly unscrew the damper body so that the oil does not spill inside the fork leg. When the damper body is out, you can measure the oil level with a stiff wire. It should be 26-28 cm from the bottom of the sliding leg in the Astore, i am not sure if it is the same. You will need a piece of tubing to e add the oil to ensure that it does not run between the sliding leg and the fork tube. Slowly introduce the damper body to the sliding leg so the oil does not escape.
I am going from memory here, so it might not be in order, but when you get going on this, it will become obvious.
Regards, Alan in Vancouver
*The tube spanner can be made by cutting some small tabs of the appropriate size and depth into the end of a pipe that fits into the fork tube, and drilling a hole at the other end for a tommy bar. if you shine a light into the fork tube, you will be able to see the pattern. I made mine from a 1-1/8" deep socket using a Dremel tool.
On 2013-04-03, at 6:17 AM, DENIS BELOTTI wrote:
Hi Alan
Could you please guide me through it?
Regards
Denis
----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Comfort" <alan.c...@gmail.com>
To: <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Finally,
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> http://www.eset.com
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http://www.eset.com
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"DENIS BELOTTI" <den...@internext.co.za> Apr 04 07:32AM +0200
Thanks Alan
Much appreciated.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Comfort" <alan.c...@gmail.com>
To: <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Finally,
> http://www.eset.com
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http://www.eset.com
Danilo Gurovich <d...@gurovich.com> Apr 02 10:04PM -0400
Is there a source in the US for a 17" 32hole Radaelli rim for the front
of my Stornello? Motocicli Veloce has one, but I thought I'd ask around
before committing to the $40+ shipping fee...
--
Danilo Gurovich d...@gurovich.com Grosse Pointe Farms, MI
Mac Dennis <capr...@fastmail.fm> Apr 02 10:34PM -0400
I might have NOS Radaelli rims but you would still need to have them rechromed
as the old chrome was so bad. $40 + shipping does not sound so bad.
Mac
On Apr 2, 2013, at 10:04 PM, Danilo Gurovich <d...@gurovich.com> wrote:
Is there a source in the US for a 17" 32hole Radaelli rim for the front of my Stornello? Motocicli Veloce has one, but I thought I'd ask around before committing to the $40+ shipping fee...
--
Danilo Gurovich d...@gurovich.com Grosse Pointe Farms, MI
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Stephen Pate
Apr 5, 2013, 10:46:13 AM4/5/13
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Not sure on width. Ehhh.... We can find something! I'll start digging.
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----------
Restoration Werks
Stephen Pate, Owner
----------
On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 12:25 AM, Alan Comfort <_alan.c...@gmail.com_
_classico...@aol.com_ (mailto:classico...@aol.com)
Tim
In a message dated 4/2/2013 7:39:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
buzzk...@gmail.com writes:
Thanks. Anyone have any suggestions on sources of non-detergent 40 weight
oils here in the US?
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Gordon de la Mare <_gordo...@yahoo.com_
(mailto:gordo...@yahoo.com) > wrote:
Just a short note on oil.
I tend to use either Silkolene Donnington straight 40 non-detergent or
Morris Golden Film 40 Classic but both seem to only be available in UK/EU.
.
The rationale for non or low detergent oil is nicely written upon the
Morris website:
Golden Film Classic Oils are recommended for use in veteran, classic and
vintage cars, motorcycles, commercial vehicles and tractors, where engine
design and tolerances prohibit the use of modern multigrade, high additive
level oils. Modern dispersant additives keep combustion chamber contamination
suspended in the lubricant, allowing full flow cartridge filters to remove
it. Early oil filtration, usually in the form of a mesh gauze or strainer,
is not efficient enough to remove this suspended material. Golden Film
Oils are low dispersant oils and allow the suspended matter to drop harmlessly
into the sump.
Cheers
Gordon
____________________________________
From: Buzz Kanter <_buzzk...@gmail.com_ (mailto:buzzk...@gmail.com) >
To: _guzzi-...@googlegroups.com_
(mailto:guzzi-...@googlegroups.com)
Sent: Tuesday, 2 April 2013, 22:19
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Finally,
Wonderful info. After reading through this I now have a MUCH greater
understanding of the oiling and clutch operation. And I can stop trying to fill
the clutch chamber through the small top filler :-)
No wonder I was getting so much oil out of the small drain behind the
flywheel. I plan to try Patrick's method of cleaning the clutch plates with
American paint thinner. It might help the shifting smooth out.
Thanks to all.
This modern Moto Guzzi sure is different in design to the old Harleys and
Indians I ride and wrench on most of the time.
Buzz
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:25 PM, <_Guzz...@aol.com_
_buzzk...@gmail.com_ (mailto:buzzk...@gmail.com) writes:
Please Help Me Better Understand My Airone.
I have a 1955 Moto Guzzi airone militaire. I have the owner's manual but
do not speak Italian. I have been working on and riding my bike for a couple
of years (including two Moto-Giro USA competitions) but still have many
questions about how best to maintain it.
1. Oil recommendations? I am told straight weight 30 or 40 mineral oil.
Does it really matter if is it 30 or 40 or a 10-40 weight?
2. To change the oil I drain the oil tank under the gas tank. Is this
sufficient or do other recommend draining the oil lines too?
3. I add the fresh oil to the oil tank filler. I have been using 10-30 or
10-40 mineral oil and it seems to be OK.
4. I do open the small drain bolt almost behind the exposed flywheel.
5. Please explain to me the two small filler bolts above the transmission,
just aft of the flywheel. Do I add oil to either or both of these? I
believe I was told one or both of these are for cleaning the clutch plates. How
would this work - details please.
6. Recommendations on lubricating the front forks? Does lubing it through
the grease fittings suffice?
7. Anything else I need to be aware of (besides the obvious items like
greased and adjusted drive chain, tire pressure, etc).
Thanks,
Buzz Kanter
On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 12:25 AM, Alan Comfort <_alan.c...@gmail.com_
Don West
Apr 5, 2013, 12:27:20 PM4/5/13
to guzzi-...@googlegroups.com
Stornello rims should be 2 & 1/4 x 17 inch 32 spokes. This equates to 1.60 x 17 in modern sizes or WM1 in old money.
They are available on ebay.it Check this search:-
Another option is to use 1.40 width rims off a kids Motocross bike such as a Yamaha YZ85, Kawasaki KX85 etc. They tend to be drilled for smaller disc brake hubs and so need the spoke seats adjusting with a countersink drill bit or you end up with curved spokes (Guess how I found that one out!) 1.40 width rim will still accept a 2.75 width tyre. A 1.60 width rim will take a 3.00 tyre.
For the spokes, I found Honda C50 / cub or step through spokes to be the perfect size. I think they are 165mm from memory.
Don
From: Stephen Pate <ste...@restorationwerks.com>
To: "guzzi-...@googlegroups.com" <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, 5 April 2013, 15:46
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Digest for guzzi-...@googlegroups.com - 25 Messages in 2 Topics
To: "guzzi-...@googlegroups.com" <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, 5 April 2013, 15:46
Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Digest for guzzi-...@googlegroups.com - 25 Messages in 2 Topics
Not sure on width. Ehhh.... We can find something! I'll start digging.
----------
Restoration Werks
Stephen Pate, Owner
----------
LewisSince they're coming from Italy I think Mac is trying to say that the shipping fee is $40 and up. Cheapest radelli rim they on that site is 50 euros, so it's an investment.If I were looking at another supplier, what's the width on the Stornello rims? I haven't yet cut my tires off to investigate.
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 8:16 AM, <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
- Finally, [23 Updates]
- 17" Radaelli Rim? [2 Updates]
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