Designing for Guncho
ElliotM
I've been watching Guncho for awhile now and was curious what should
be considered when making a Guncho game. I'll start off with some of
my own observations about The Outer Realm but any thoughts on Guncho
game design are welcome. I'll begin with some thoughts on scalability
concerning maximum player limits and objects:
The Guncho wiki indicates that there is a default PC cap of 25
players, which can be changed, and that players attempting to join a
full realm will be given a realm is full message. Right now the player-
base is small but what will this mean in terms of scalability once the
player-base starts increasing? I examined The Outer Realm source code
to see if it set a fixed number of PCs but couldn't find a reference.
Would I be correct in assuming that the default realm which everyone
links into is capped at 25 players? If controlling the number of
players in a realm is important for ensuring quality experiences, what
should be done if a realm is in high demand? MMORPGs sometimes use
something called 'instancing' to deal with this problems for quests
and regions but it isn't without its disadvantages. I don't know much
how MUDs deal with it, if they have this issue, so I'm not sure what
else to suggest.
The first time I logged into The Outer Realm I noticed there was a box
of costume bits and other objects. I liked the sunglasses so I took
those and started wearing them while I explored the place. When I
unexpectedly linked to another realm, however, I noticed I dropped
them and left them behind. The box reminded me of an article I found
while researching MUDs. In the archives for the biweekly TT&T column
by Shannon Appelcline over on www.skotos.net , I found an article
entitled "Objectionable economies" which contained some interesting
insight regarding objects from which I will quote a bit:
"Shannon's Second Rule of Objects: Scarce objects will be seen as
tokens of favor."
If a realm wants to allow players to customize their PC's, like with
the box of costume bits, I think there should be a system for
generating copies of objects on demand and remembering which ones a
player was wearing. This way unused duplicates can be destroyed or
created only as they are needed. This would make it similar to Second
Life's avatar customization process where unused objects are not
dropped onto the ground but simply unloaded from the game state. One
another note, while The Outer Realm doesn't have too many of these
flavor objects, any realm that did could be littered with tons of them
as players came and went.
Those were some of my thoughts so far and I'd be glad to hear what the
rest of you have noticed or run into while designing for Guncho.
Cheers,
ElliotM
PaulDV
On Apr 29, 7:54 am, ElliotM <OrangeLo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I've been watching Guncho for awhile now and was curious what should
> be considered when making a Guncho game. I'll start off with some of
> my own observations about The Outer Realm but any thoughts on Guncho
> game design are welcome. I'll begin with some thoughts on scalability
> concerning maximum player limits and objects:
>
> The Guncho wiki indicates that there is a default PC cap of 25
> players, which can be changed, and that players attempting to join a
> full realm will be given a realm is full message. Right now the player-
> base is small but what will this mean in terms of scalability once the
> player-base starts increasing? I examined The Outer Realm source code
> to see if it set a fixed number of PCs but couldn't find a reference.
> Would I be correct in assuming that the default realm which everyone
> links into is capped at 25 players? If controlling the number of
> players in a realm is important for ensuring quality experiences, what
> should be done if a realm is in high demand? MMORPGs sometimes use
> something called 'instancing' to deal with this problems for quests
> and regions but it isn't without its disadvantages. I don't know much
> how MUDs deal with it, if they have this issue, so I'm not sure what
> else to suggest.
>
what mechanism is used to set it (although your assumption that it
must be set to the default of 25 seems reasonable to me), but thinking
about it, it seems unlikely to me that there will be that many people
playing in the Outer Realm all at the same time.
That said, if there were, it does bring up the question of what
happens if the Outer Realm is full and someone in another realm tries
to exit to the Outer Realm...
The reason that I don't believe that we will see this number of
players is based on my experience to date with Guncho (it seems very
sparsely occupied, and I have never bumped into another player as
yet!) and my experience with playing MUDII (there is a thriving player
base, but very rarely do they get more than 25 players at any one time
- in fact I don't think I've ever seen more than 15 on at one time!).
Of course, a competition being under way could generate more interest
in playing Guncho realms, so we may yet experience more players being
on at one time, although this is may not happen until after the
competition is closed and the realms are open to the public.
On Apr 29, 7:54 am, ElliotM <OrangeLo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The first time I logged into The Outer Realm I noticed there was a box
> of costume bits and other objects. I liked the sunglasses so I took
> those and started wearing them while I explored the place. When I
> unexpectedly linked to another realm, however, I noticed I dropped
> them and left them behind. The box reminded me of an article I found
> while researching MUDs. In the archives for the biweekly TT&T column
> insight regarding objects from which I will quote a bit:
>
> "Shannon's Second Rule of Objects: Scarce objects will be seen as
> tokens of favor."
>
> If a realm wants to allow players to customize their PC's, like with
> the box of costume bits, I think there should be a system for
> generating copies of objects on demand and remembering which ones a
> player was wearing. This way unused duplicates can be destroyed or
> created only as they are needed. This would make it similar to Second
> Life's avatar customization process where unused objects are not
> dropped onto the ground but simply unloaded from the game state. One
> another note, while The Outer Realm doesn't have too many of these
> flavor objects, any realm that did could be littered with tons of them
> as players came and went.
>
persistence of data from one playing session to another - MUD2.5 uses
this to store persona details, and there's no reason as to why it
can't be used to store inventory as well (although MUD2.5 is
specifically designed not to do this - if you quit, your loot is
dropped where you last stood).
As for making a number of one particular object available for use by
various characters, Guncho, to my knowledge, doesn't support the
creation and destruction of objects. Instead, you have to make a
'pool' of the same object available and provide a means of managing
them. The cup of tea that every player receives in the Elizabethan
Tea Room is a prime example of this: there are a number of cups of
tea, but each player can only ever have one, yet if there are 5
players in the Tearoom, each one will have their own cup. I just made
sure that the number of cups available matches the maximum number of
PCs available just in case.
I guess whether or not you want to have an infinite supply of a
particular type of object will depend on the game you are designing,
but as Shannon's Second Rule of Objects states, readily available
items have no intrinsic value to a player and will not, therefore,
really add to the fun of the game. If every object has a limited
availability, that makes players think a bit more about what they
should or should not pick up and, in certain circumstances, actually
makes the game a bit more fun, e.g. in MUDII, one of the 'best'
weapons available is the Longsword, but there is only one - so it is a
highly prized object among those who are strong enough to wield it,
and on 'fight nights' there is often a huge rush to be the first to
retrieve it (although it is often moved from it's usual starting
position by a Wizard in order to level the playing field a little).
One of the things I have noticed in coding MUD2.5 is that the server
commandeers quite a number of features that I'd rather like to code
myself or at least bend to my will, but my knowledge of Inform7 and
Guncho currently limits my progression in this regard. One of these
is communication between players: I'd like to replicate some of the
methods used in MUDII but all of my efforts have been thwarted by
Guncho throwin away my own rules and using its own. Another is the
PC's name. It is defaulted to the name of the player's account, but
I'd rather have the player choose a name that they would like to be
known as, and have this displayed whenever you see any description of
a player instead of their account name.
If anyone else has managed to implement any of these features, I'd be
very please to have a chat and find out how.
It's good to see the interest in Guncho starting to creep up, and I
look forward to the day when I can log on and find lots of players
running around (hopefully soon!).
Regards,
Paul
Dave Chapeskie
> I examined The Outer Realm source code
> to see if it set a fixed number of PCs but couldn't find a reference.
> Would I be correct in assuming that the default realm which everyone
> links into is capped at 25 players?
Yes. For any realm which gives you permission to view its source you
can also view its index. This is the index generated by Inform 7.
Under the world tab you can see the PC-corral object that contains a
number of objects of the PC kind. It is the number of these that sets
the limit. (Note that a realm's source could create objects of a
sub-kind of PC and possibly create these outside of the PC-corral and
move then into the PC-corral at run time in which case you'd need to
look elsewhere on the World Index page.)
E.g.:
http://cp.guncho.com/ViewIndex.aspx?realm=The+Outer+Realm&file=World.html
> MMORPGs sometimes use
> something called 'instancing' to deal with this problems for quests
> and regions but it isn't without its disadvantages.
Currently this could be emulated by duplicating (cut-n-pasting) the
realm source code under more than one realm name and either having the
player select the appropriate transport mechanism or having the code
doing the transportation make the decision. E.g.:
[I7 code]
Instead of going northwest in beach, send the player to "FooRealm1".
Instead of going southwest in beach, send the player to FooRealm2.
Instead of going west in beach:
if a random chance of 1 in 2 succeeds:
send the player to "FooRealm1";
otherwise
send the player to "FooRealm2";
[/I7 code]
Ideally Guncho will grow support for creating new instances of realms,
either by specifying a realm should have N instances or at run-time with
the equivalent of a 'fork' call.
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=fork&sektion=2&format=html
> When I
> unexpectedly linked to another realm, however, I noticed I dropped
> them and left them behind.
This is the default as provided by 'the drop possessions when leaving
rule'. This rule can be overridden/replaced by a realm with whatever
they want. Objects could be dropped, returned to their starting
locations, moved off-stage with information about who possessed them and
return to that same player when/if they rejoin, or any combination of
these based on whatever conditions the author should choose to use.
I'm planning on providing support for this in an extension that can be
added to any realm. More on this once the competition is over (as my
focus will be on a comp entry until then).
> If a realm wants to allow players to customize their PC's, like with
> the box of costume bits,
Note that the purpose of the costume box was most likely to provide some
toy props to play with as opposed to PC customization.
> I think there should be a system for
> generating copies of objects on demand and remembering which ones a
> player was wearing. This way unused duplicates can be destroyed or
> created only as they are needed.
This is up to the realm author. As mentioned above the author can do
whatever they want with a PC's possessions. The only difficulty comes
with duplicating objects. Inform 7 does not provide native support for
doing this. There is an extension, Dynamic Objects by Jesse McGrew (the
author of Guncho as it happens). However, when I last tried this with
Guncho it appeared to not only crash my own realm but all of Guncho. I
was planing on waiting until Guncho is upgraded to the latest version of
Inform 7 before re-trying this.
http://inform7.com/extensions/Jesse%20McGrew/Dynamic%20Objects/doc_0.html
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 03:13:30AM -0700, PaulDV wrote:
> There is a mechanism built into Guncho (storage slots) to allow the
> persistence of data from one playing session to another - MUD2.5 uses
> this to store persona details, and there's no reason as to why it
> can't be used to store inventory as well (although MUD2.5 is
> specifically designed not to do this - if you quit, your loot is
> dropped where you last stood).
Just to clarify, storage slots provide for persistent storage across
realm/Guncho restarts. They are not needed for simple player
reconnection persistence (e.g. by default if you move an object in a
Realm it stays where you left it until the realm is restarted).
> Guncho, to my knowledge, doesn't support the
> creation and destruction of objects.
As above, this isn't a Guncho issue, it's an Inform issue.
--
Dave Chapeskie
OpenPGP Key ID: 0x3D2B6B34