Pit Bull attack

[Peter]

I heard on the news today that a woman was walking her six year old daughter to school.

Five pit bulls attacked them.  The woman was protecting her daughter. the mother had bites over 90 percent of her body. She is at the hospital in serious condition. 

[J Kimbell]

They are evil dogs. Not their fault, just what humans have bred in to them and the behaviour they encourage. they are supposed to be illegal here but they are here nonetheless. they get them in to the UK via the Irish Republic.

 

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[Peter]

Julia,

there are some states in the US that are not allowing people to own them.

When we hear about dog attacks, I’d say most are from pit bulls.

I’ll agree to a point that the owners of these dogs contribute to the problem.

However I also think it is the breed of the dog.

I don’t trust these dogs. When my children were very small. I wouldn’t allow them to go anywhere near those dogs.

Julia, since I missed your birthday, this is what I’m going to do.

To celebrate the US kicking the butt out of you Brits in the Revolutionary war. On July forth I’m going to send you a pair of tight jeans.

All I need from you is the color, and the size. Now please put the size in English. Well something I can understand.

Julia, like those pit bulls, sometimes things happen to people. It really isn’t their fault. They grow up with no friends. Well except imaginary ones. Even these make believe friends don’t want to associate with these people.

They grow up angry, and show little or no respect for others.

They pray on the weaker sex. In their delusionary mind they have no respect for women. They also believe it is there business to interject there feelings where they don’t belong.

These males, I won’t call them men; I really don’t know what to call them. Well I do, but not in this forum.

I’m not going to name anybody by name. It must be hell for this person or perhaps persons who are living like this.

Hey we all have heard all good things come to an end. Hey we had a few weeks of pleasure. However  like the locus somebody returned. Oh well I wish it was like the locus, took seven years for him to come back.

Oh Julia, Goddess of the tight jeans. Oh Mel I’m not forgetting about you in your tight jeans. Have you two ladies ever stopped traffic while you two beauties went for a walk?

We all ready know Sarah has caused a few traffic jams.  

[Jim Armstrong]

Peter,

What a horrible story to hear, especially on this list of friendly dog owners.

The only two pit-bulls I have ever met were being kept by the S P C A for the owners not obeying leash laws.

 Now the entire U S A is considering banniing them from ever entering the country.

The one thing I don't understand is that the two I met feel like beautiful dogs and they had a very gentle disposition.

So I would have expected them to be gentle natured, but its not so. 

That just ggoes to show you that looks are deceiving!

Now!  You just keep that in mind when you are talking to some of the ladies on this list. <ROFL>

Just kidding of course!

 

Now.  The question for our list is this.

Do you think they should be outlawed?

 

Blessings to Everybody!

Jim

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Peter

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 2:31 PM

Subject: Pit Bull attack

I heard on the news today that a woman was walking her six year old daughter to school.

Five pit bulls attacked them.  The woman was protecting her daughter. the mother had bites over 90 percent of her body. She is at the hospital in serious condition. 

--

[Peter]

Here is an update about this dog attack.

The woman was 29. She told her daughter to run while she fought off the dogs.

The report I jus heard was the woman is alright. She might be released sometime this week.

The dogs were captured. It seems one man owns all five dogs.

The dogs climbed a fence to get this woman and her daughter.

It seems people in the area have been making complaints about these dogs.

It takes something like this to happen for people to take action.

Jim I wouldn’t be crushed if these dogs were outlawed.    

 

From: Jim Armstrong

Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 5:00 PM

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

[Jim Armstrong]

Howdy!  That is how we say hello here in the southern part of the United States. <LOL>

 

About these pit bulls...

I know of people who want to make them mean so they can serve as a guard dog or a fighting dog in arenas where they gamble on them.

So these owners start when the dogs are very young and teach them to have a terrible disposition.

Here is just one example.

 

In due respect for the very young people on the list, this comes with a warning.

 

I know people who will approach their pit-bulls while they are asleep and reach over and pinch them hard on their Go-nads or testicles.

Not only does this cause pain, but it infuriates the dog also.

If someone woke me up by grabbing my testicles, I would grow up to be hateful as hell!

 

So in the dog's defense, people are the ones creating these behaviors, thus the dogs are not born evil.

They are turned into fighting, evil creatures.

 

Sometimes the dogs are denied food and water and neglected so they will be dangerous and hateful in the fighting ring as a means of making them wish to kill their apponent.  And kill them, they do.

 

Sometimes I believe that the person abusing the dogs are the ones who should be punished and killed.

 

Jim

[Sandra Heaton]

 

 

Hi,

 

O no!  that's horrible.

 

 

Sandra
Braille Greeting Cards
www.braille-greetings-cards.co.uk

----- Original Message -----

From: Peter

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 7:31 PM

Subject: Pit Bull attack

I heard on the news today that a woman was walking her six year old daughter to school.

Five pit bulls attacked them.  The woman was protecting her daughter. the mother had bites over 90 percent of her body. She is at the hospital in serious condition. 

--

[cait furness]

Ok, not to diminish this particular attack, *but*.. it's not the particular breed, it's the idiots that own the dogs.  You start banning any breed and where does it stop?  It could be your loveable labs next, or any other of our dogs.

Control is the key, not breed bans.

Caitlyn, all for responsible ownership and laws with teeth, not breed bans.  breed bans don't work anyway

[Peter]

Jim,

I have to disagree with you.

Yes this is how they train, or teach these dogs to fight.

They cut off there ears and tails, so the other dogs can’t latch on to them. Now these dogs are only bred to fight, and die in the arena.

However many people have these dogs as so called pets. How many have turned on there owners? As what happened to this woman I told you about. These dogs weren’t trained to fight in the ring.

I think something is wrong with the breed.

These dogs are being outlawed in many of our states, and in other countries. There has to be something to this.

[Jim Armstrong]

Cait,

I whole heartedly agree with you.

Vicious dogs are only a reflection of their stupid owners.  In fact, the pit-bulls I have met who have the personality issues are owned by men who all think with that second brain located down in their pants.  Excuse me for being crude.. but I think you understand my point.

 

Only a senseless idiot trains his dog to committ a violent act against another dog, or a human for that matter.

It must be that same old Freudian mentality where the man requires an ego extention to fulfill his need for power and importance in his very small world.

Thus, some men use motor cicles to obtain that extra boost of power where others obtain it through their use of vicious dogs or ugly powerful snakes.

Maybe we should hunt down all of the small minded menn in the world and clear off a piece of property where all of them can live together.

[Peter]

Caitlyn,

Perhaps I don’t have the dog knowledge you have.

However I can put two and two together.

I agree somewhat with you.

However people mistreat all breeds of dogs. German Shepherds, Doberman Pinchers, Great Danes, and even the breeds of our beloved guide dogs. Heck even small dog breeds.

How often do you hear about a lab killing people? Or a pack of golden retrievers roaming the streets attacking people?

Every now and again we hear about other dog breeds that have hurt people.

However we hear about pit bulls all the time. why is this? Are these dogs being mistreated more than other breeds?

The Military use many dogs for defense. Why don’t they use pit bulls? Could it be that there just to unpredictable?

I truly believe it goes far beyond just being mistreated. 

[cait furness]

Sorry, Peter.

If you look at the statistics for dog bites, the most dog bites have been for breeds like labs and goldens, not staffs and other b bull type breeds.

You hear media coverage of things like this because it's sensational and being bitten by a lab or other breed just isn't media worthy.  Plain and simple.

You don't hear about attacks by military or police dogs because they are under control for the most part and if they aren't they are destroyed.

Cait

[Louise Redsull]

Totally agree. Tere are areas near me where dogs are trained more to be guard dogs and not treated responsibly.

 

Louise.

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[Louise Redsull]

I think it’s about how dogs are trained. So say someone is wanting a dog to scare people. They are more likely to choose a breed which have a reputation for being more likely to be aggressive. Then when they get the dog they want they train it to be aggressive.

 

Louise.

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[Jim Armstrong]

Louise,

I agree with you.  It seems that many people who want to appear to be tough and invincible will choose a breed of dog they believe will pump up the perception of themselves they wish to portray.

Then with that breed of dog, they turn around and face the world standing tall as if they can take on the world just like Super Man.  But a dog does not have to reflect the personality challenges they themselves lack.

Those things are all in their own heads and they search hard for a tangible thing that will sublimate their own shortcomings.

Poor poor dogs.  Man's best friend?

It makes me wonder.

[Melanie Akpotu]

I think a lot of it is their breeding, watt they were bred for, and also that by their nature and appearance they fall into unscrupulous hands more than do say the Labradors and Goldens of this world.  Pits are banned here, supposedly, although they are still in sufficient numbers if you ask me.  I really think all these Bull Terrier breeds are a liability because here at least, they are mostly owned by thick families who have no idea about socialising and bringing up dogs properly.  The Staffordshire Bull Terrier for instance, is usually good with people, but they have a terrible reputation with other dogs.  There is one of them, or probably a Pit Bull, going around here and quite a few other dogs have been killed by this (think it’s a pair actually!), so I now can’t free run my small pet dog alone, as he just wouldn’t stand a chance.  It’s criminal and if they don’t ban them, all such breeds should be muzzled in public here in my view.

[Melanie Akpotu]

Hahahaha!!  My sister and I almost caused a bloke to come off his motorbike in Greece a couple of years ago, when we walked down the road but not in tight jeans but in revealing tops, lol!!  Then 2 men were drinking outside a bar and one man choked on his drink and spilt it all down the front of him as we passed, and his friend could not stop laughing!!  Neither could we!!

[Sandra Heaton]

Hi,

 

I think sometimes its down to the owner on how they train a dog.  I mean the rockweiler is supposed to be a vicious kind of dog but too be honest!  some rockweilers are really quite soft!  If the owner wants the dog to scare people then it will be trained as such.  Sometimes its also down to the owner not looking after the dog properly as well.

 

Just my thoughts on this subject. 

 

I have had guide dogs but I don't have the knowledge about dogs, only what I have picked up on.

 

 

Sandra
Braille Greeting Cards
www.braille-greetings-cards.co.uk

[Peter]

Melanie,

I jus might have to become a British citizen. I know we have hot women in my country. However I know of at least four gorgeous women, who live in the UK!

Tight jeans, and revealing blouses, Oh no, here comes the hot sweats!  

[Melanie Akpotu]

I largely agree with this view, but you have to admit that through generations of selective breeding, certain traits are bred into certain breeds.  There is absolutely no getting away from that fact.  No matter its training, most Labs like to retrieve and most Terrier breeds are feisty and don’t like to let go of an argument – nudge nudge! – and GSD’s have a strong protective instinct, even if it is well hidden through good training, it is still there so it doesn’t take much for it to show.  You can’t hide who you are for long usually!!  I don’t believe it is solely down to training, it is in their make-up, but that is the fault of the human race.  I mean, Border Collies like herding, most retrievers don’t show this instinct, I say most as there are always exceptions to every rule. 

[cait furness]

I'm not arguing what the original purposes of any of the bull type breeds were bred for here. 

My only point in what I was saying was that breed bans don't work and are not the way to deal with this sort of thing, enforcing already existing laws is the way to go.  If breed bans *did* work, then you wouldn't have the people sneaking those dogsin as they are doing, would you?  You also have stupid people in supposed positions of authority, like shelter and rescue groups mistaking other breeds that aren't the bull types, such as boxers and mixes of other dogs for the ones that are banned and putting the owners of the unbanned dogs through heck.  Yeah, that's really fair, eh?

Yes, any breed has certain traits, that's what makes it a breed in the first place and what makes us like certain ones over others.  But let's face it, most breeds are not used for the purposes for which they were originally bred for these days and most should be able to live with us as well behaved pets, no matter what they were originally bred to do in the hazy past.

Cait, who likes all dogs, no matter what shape they come in

[J Kimbell]

Most dog attacks you hear about here are from Stafs. Or Rottweilers, these are obviously the ones we hear about. My Collie was on the receiving end  of several Staf attacks over the years and I wouldnt trust them things further than I could throw them, which wouldnt be far, laughs.

 

----- Original Message -----

From: cait furness

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

[J Kimbell]

Agreeing. Its what humans have made of the different breeds.

 

[Jim Armstrong]

Hey Melony,,

If you want me to crash my bike, just wear one of those tops and let me have a feel of it.

The good Lord sure knew the way to a man's heart when he formed those two supple places on a woman's chest and told men:

"You can look but you cannot touch!"

What a horrible fate for me and others.

Its sort of like being tossed into hell.

My brain just starts going crazy with the thought of Spring and girls in their summer clothes coming round the bend.

Oh but wait!  Did I forget to mention soft supple thighs?

What's wrong with me? 

<huge smiles>

 

Jim who has spring feavor

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Melanie Akpotu

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

[Peter]

Jim,

Why do these beautiful women have to live all the way over there across the pond?

Jim I have a new person editing my book. So I’ll tell you what. If this story becomes a best seller. Friend I’m taking you with me over to the British Isles.

Jim just think how envious everyone is going to be when you and I walk into a restaurant with Julia, Melanie, Sara, Jennie, Louise, Tony and Anne. Friend we will be the envy of the United Kingdom!!!    

[Melanie Akpotu]

Lol, lol, what a riot that would be and imagine all the dogs!!

[Melanie Akpotu]

Well they supposedly are here, but the powers that be struggle to enforce the law, and often there is a discrepancy over whether a dog is really a Pit Bull or some sort of Bull Terrier cross and sometimes this has to be decided in court.  There was a Pit at our vets a couple of years ago, being held there on behalf of the police as she had been seized, and apparently she was a beautiful dog.  It is a real shame that through unscrupulous breeding and training and treatment, such monsters are created as to ruin it for genuine lovers of the breed.

Same with any breed actually!

Mel.

 

From: Jim Armstrong

Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 10:00 PM

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

[J Kimbell]

Did you ever find out if she was destroyed or not? I know there was some debate at the time whether they shoudlnt just spay her and find her a good home.

Julia

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Melanie Akpotu

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

[Melanie Akpotu]

Well mostly here bites and attacks on people and other dogs are from Stafs or Staf crosses. 

Not saying other breeds don’t bite as any dog is capable of doing so.  My sister was bitten by a Lab as a child.  There’s just been a population explosion of them here and you can’t really give them away for love nor money and the rescue shelters are full of them.  I’ve met a lot of nice ones, but also plenty of aggressive to other dogs ones who are often off leash out of control, or straining and nearly pulling their owners over to get to my dogs.  If they don’t ban these breeds, then there should be some restrictions or law to say they should be muzzled in a public place.  I like all dogs, but now my life is altered in that I can’t free run my pet anymore for fear of the bloody things, that can’t be right.  My parents dog was almost killed by 2 off leash ones last year and the owner was not able to easily get them off, it’s disgraceful, and he still walks around with them off leash.

From: cait furness

Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 5:19 PM

[Melanie Akpotu]

Sorry, but that is in an ideal world and unfortunately the world is full of idiots and the UK and US teeming with them in my experience!!!  I think we have more than our fair share of idiots in both countries!!

[J Kimbell]

The rescue places are flooded with the things as they are declining in poplarity, or so I've read several times. I've met few nice ones but plenty of nasty ones.

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Melanie Akpotu

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

[Jim Armstrong]

Peter,

I only have one question.

How are these lovely women going to decide with which one of us they wish to eat lunch?

They could of course decide by the money in our bank accounts, or the decision could be made on our relative attractiveness and or just on the sexy sound of our voices.

But oh my God!  Just wait until they hear that aweful northern accent of yurs right out of Long Island New York.

Okay then.  No problem for me.  I win hands down.

Poor poor fellow.  You don't stand a chance once they hear my resemblance to Elvis.

aha aha aha

"I'll have a blue Christmas without you Dude."

 

Jim the Elvis empersonator

[Jim Armstrong]

I have such mixed feelings about this; my very own topic.

The two pit-bulls I have met, although a very small sample, were lovely creatures but kind of jumpy as it pertained to sounds immediately around them.

So I truly did not get a good measure of their haste to emote negative characteristics.

But given their physical structure, their jaw line, strong muscular frame, powerful and muscular bodies and quickness to react, I want to believe they could be gentle but I seriously have my doubts.

 

As I touched both dogs comparing them to other breeds like the German Sheppard or Dobberman Pincer, one thing became apparent.

They have the ability to pounce and move in a matter of

milli-seconds.  Therefore they frighten the hell out of me.

Then again I suppose we are all frightened of those things we do not understand.

 

Does anyone else have an opinion on this topic?

 

Jim

----- Original Message -----

From: Melanie Akpotu

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

[Peter]

Oh Jim,

If nothing else you always make me laugh.

OK ladies here are the facts. Jim is taller than me, has a better or should I say went beyond me with his education.

Sounds like Elvis? Perhaps when right after eating Elvis belched. There is a similarity there.

I’m clean shaven, Jim resembles with his beard a Yeti, or Big Foot.

Jim is a terrific person, and is a great friend.

Hey Jim I think I might want to date you after reading what I wrote!     

[Derek Hornby]

Notice that some Insurance companies
Blacklist some dogs breeds that guide dogs use.
I think this isjust inj the US

Insurance Companies Blacklist Dangerous Dog Breeds

As a result of the high cost of dog bite liability claims, some
insurance companies have blacklisted certain breeds - meaning they
can refuse to extend coverage to homeowners and renters who live with
these potentially dangerous dogs.

If you own any of the dogs listed below or are thinking of getting
one of these breeds, and you don't have homeowners or renters insurance
covering the dog, know that you may be held personally responsible for
any injuries they may cause to another person or dog.

Blacklisted dog breeds may include the following:

Akitas
Alaskan Malamutes
Boxers
Bullmastiffs
Chow Chows
Doberman Pinschers
German Shepherds
Great Danes
Presa Canarios
Pit Bulls
Rottweilers
Siberian Huskies
Wolf-Hybrids
Insurance companies aren't the only ones blacklisting breeds. Some
homeowner associations, housing developments, and apartment buildings
have also banned certain dog breeds. Several cities have passed
breed-specific legislation (BSL) that prohibits people from owning
a certain breed.

There isn't a national standard for owning particular dog breeds,
so you should check with your local government and whoever owns the
property where you live to find out if they have restrictions on
dangerous dog breeds.
http://www.edgarsnyder.com/dog-bite/dangerous-dogs.html?hl=en&rlz=&q=cache:s
j_a3NF-NRIJ:http://www.edgarsnyder.com/dog-bite/dangerous-dogs.html%2Bwhich+
dog+breeds+most+likely+to+attack&gs_l=igoogle.3..0i22i30l5.7453.28656.0.3279
7.42.36.3.3.4.0.531.10112.2-30j1j3j2.36.0...0.0...1ac.1.4L3vibfm20g&ct=clnk&
ref=http%3A//www.google.co.uk/search%3Fsource%3Dig%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D%26q%3D
which+dog+breeds+most+likely+to+attack%26oq%3Dwhich+dog+breeds+most+likely+t
o+attack%26gs_l%3Digoogle.3..0i22i30l5.7453.28656.0.32797.42.36.3.3.4.0.531.
10112.2-30j1j3j2.36.0...0.0...1ac.1.4L3vibfm20g

-----Original Message-----
From: guide-do...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:guide-do...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Melanie Akpotu
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 3:16 PM
To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: a discussion about, Pit Bull attack

Well mostly here bites and attacks on people and other dogs are from Stafs
or Staf crosses.
Not saying other breeds don't bite as any dog is capable of doing so. My
sister was bitten by a Lab as a child. There's just been a population
explosion of them here and you can't really give them away for love nor
money and the rescue shelters are full of them. I've met a lot of nice
ones, but also plenty of aggressive to other dogs ones who are often off
leash out of control, or straining and nearly pulling their owners over to
get to my dogs. If they don't ban these breeds, then there should be some
restrictions or law to say they should be muzzled in a public place. I like
all dogs, but now my life is altered in that I can't free run my pet anymore
for fear of the bloody things, that can't be right. My parents dog was
almost killed by 2 off leash ones last year and the owner was not able to
easily get them off, it's disgraceful, and he still walks around with them
off leash.

From: cait furness <mailto:caitlyn...@gmail.com>

[cait furness]

any dog is capable of moving faster then we humans are capable of reacting to if they've a mind to, really, in an adrenalin pumped up situation. that thing about the pit jaw structure is an urban myth.  they have 42 teeth just like any other dog and it hurt0s when they bite just like  any other dog bite would.

Let's not get carried away.

Cait

[Jim Armstrong]

Hi Cait,

I am going to keep this very short as I have a migraine headache and must hit the bed soon.

About the Pit-bulls though.

 

I have heard it said that the most frightening fact about them is that they have a grip strength of three thousand pounds per square inch, plus once they bite, their teeth are designed in a way that makes it impossible for them to let go of someone, and this is the reason for the extreme damage they do.

 

True or false?

Thanks loads.

Must go lay down now.

 

Peace,

[cait furness]

urban myth.

Cait

[cait furness]

I agree, Mel, that we have lots and lots of idiots in both places, but I still respectfully hold my position on breed bans.

*warm smile*

Cait

[cait furness]

Wow, that is a problem, Mel.

Those off lead dogs definitely should be under control.  Is there some sort of authority you could report them to for that sort of thing?

Cait

[Derek Hornby]

Cait
There are laws in UK to deal with problem dogs.
See below.

It’s against the law to let a dog be dangerously out of control:

in a public place
in a private place where the dog isn’t allowed to be (eg a neighbour’s
house or garden without permission)
The law applies to all dogs.

Some types of dogs are banned.

Out of control
Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:

injures someone
makes someone worried that it might injure them
A court could also decide that your dog is dangerously out of control if:

it injures someone’s animal
the owner of the animal thinks they could be injured if they tried to stop
your dog attacking their animal
A farmer is allowed to kill your dog if it’s worrying their livestock.

Penalties
You can be fined up to £5,000 and/or sent to prison for up to 6 months
if your dog is out of control. You may also not be allowed to
own a dog in the future.

If you let your dog injure someone, you can be sent to prison for
up to 2 years and/or fined.

If you deliberately use your dog to injure someone you could be
charged with ‘malicious wounding’. The maximum penalty is 5 years in
prison.

Banned dogs
In the UK, it’s against the law to own certain types of dog. These
are the:

Pit Bull Terrier
Japanese Tosa
Dogo Argentino
Fila Braziliero
It’s also against the law to:

sell
abandon
give away
breed from
a banned dog.

Whether your dog is a banned type depends on what it looks like,
rather than its breed or name.

Example
If your dog matches many of the characteristics of a Pit Bull
Terrier, it may be a banned type.

If you have a banned dog, the police or local council dog warden can
take it away and keep it, even if:

it isn’t acting dangerously
there hasn’t been a complaint
The police may need permission from a court to do this. If your dog
is in:

a public place, the police don’t need a warrant
a private place, the police must get a warrant
a private place and the police have a warrant for something else
(like a drugs search), they can seize your dog
A police or council dog expert will judge what type of dog you have and
whether it is (or could be) a danger to the public. Your dog will then
either be:

kept in kennels while the police (or council) apply to a court
While you wait for the court decision, you’re not allowed to visit your
dog.

You can give up ownership of your dog but you can’t be forced to.
If you do, your dog could be destroyed without you even going to
court.

Going to court
It’s your responsibility to prove your dog is not a banned type.

If you prove this, the court will order the dog to be returned to you.
If you can’t prove it (or you plead guilty), you’ll be convicted of
a crime.

The maximum penalty for having a banned dog against the law is a £5,000
fine and/or 6 months in prison. Your dog will also be destroyed.

If your dog is banned but the court thinks it’s not a danger to the
public, it may put it on the IED and let you keep it.

You’ll be given a Certificate of Exemption. This is valid for the life
of the dog.

Your dog must be:

neutered
tattooed
microchipped
kept on a lead and muzzled at all times when in public
kept in a secure place so it can’t escape
As the owner, you must:

take out insurance against your dog injuring other people
be aged over 16
show the Certificate of Exemption when asked by a police officer or council
dog warden, either at the time or within 5 days
let the IED know if you change address, or your dog dies
Index of Exempted Dogs

Local councils in England and Wales can issue Dog Control Orders (DCOs).

These mean that in public areas with DCOs, you may have to:

keep your dog on a lead
put your dog on a lead if told to by a police officer, police community
support officer or someone from the council
stop your dog going in certain places - like farmland or parts of a park
limit the number of dogs you have with you (this applies to professional dog
walkers too)
clear up after your dog
DCOs don’t apply to private land if you have permission from the land owner
or person who controls the land.

Penalties
If you ignore a DCO, you can be fined:

£50 on the spot (a ‘Fixed Penalty Notice’)
up to £1,000 if it goes to court
You can’t be fined if you’re a registered blind dog owner.

DCOs in your area
Local councils must let the public know where DCOs are in place.

Example
If dogs aren’t allowed in a park, there must be signs saying so.

If the council plans to put a new DCO in place, it must put up a notice and
publish it in a local newspaper and on its website.

The notice must tell you:

where the new DCO will apply
if there’s a map and where you can see it
where you can write or email to have your say - you should have at least 28
days
After 28 days, your local council will decide whether to go ahead with the
DCO or change it. If there are lots of changes, the council will publish
another notice, with the same timescales.

https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/overview

From: cait furness <mailto:caitlyn...@gmail.com>

[cait furness]

thanks Derek. This is good and useful information.
Cait

[J Kimbell]

You are right of course, you can get very soppy Rottweilers so they say, but you mustnt forget what they were origianlly bred for and I'm now talking generally. Dobermanns were developed and bred specifically as guard dogs, but with generation sof breeding and selecting which lines you want and only breeding from the gentler animals, then you will get one that is as soft as shit as they say. I dont much like them to look at, but now that tail docking in the UK is illegal, they do look a hell of a lot better and I dont like Rottweilers, for me there is just something about them I would never trust, just an underlying sisister feel to them. We have one who lives around here  who is quite aggressive on the lead, but her owner says off the lead and she is a right softy, but if she shows aggression on a lead I'd never trust her off. Wren is afraid of her.  Yes I've never been afraid of GS's ever and I know their supposed reputation. Int he wrong hands they are lethal but I've met far more friendly ones than not friendly ones, even some so daft as to jump all over you and lick your ears on meeting!!!

 

Internal Virus Database is out of date.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

[Melanie Akpotu]

The trouble is identifying them.  There are so many people with these types of dogs.  For the past couple of years, some shitbags have been going round with a Bull Terrier type of dog and deliberately setting it on small dogs and cats.  Then quite separately there have been several other dogs killed by a different pair, not to mention the ones that my parents encountered last year.  I really do feel there should be something more done but it’s hard to identify and then prove what’s going on unless you have a corpse on your hands, and Heaven forbid that should happen to any of my animals, I would want to die I think.

 

Mel.

[Melanie Akpotu]

But these Bull Terrier types are hard to prize from another dog once they have locked onto it.  The thing with them is that they just won't give up.  My sister owns a Staf and about 10 years ago when he was young, he ran into a field of horses and started attacking them.  No matter how much they kicked at him and herded together to get him, he was knocked flat to the ground by them, but still he got up and went back for the attack a fourth and fifth and sixth time.  How he wasn’t killed we still don’t know.  The only way she managed to stop him was to literally throw herself on top of him and pin him to the ground.  She also has a Jack Russell Terrier who was running amid the horses’ hooves and barking the place down, also unwilling to draw back.  They were 2 dogs well out of control and lucky to survive it.  Also fortunately none of the horses were hurt, but the Staf had to have a couple of teeth removed as they had been partially kicked out.  This dog had never been trained to attack anything, had never seen livestock in its life, but that’s what I mean about certain traits being bred into them.  We may think they are suppressed even from hazy years ago, but it can just be something that triggers their natural instinct. 

 

Mel.

[cait furness]

Oh, yes, that's the terrier determination for you right there.

and that doesn't have anything to do with their jaw being different, it's like you said about them not wanting to let go.

I'm glad the horses weren't hurt.  and, yes, the dogs definitely weren't in control.  any dogs who worry livestock like this are a menace.

Cait

[cait furness]

I agree, it is hard.

It's like anything that comes into the shelter over her is called a lab cross that's big and black.  If it's merle, it's automatically a heeler cross, etc. Kind of dumb, actually. If it's got a close coat, a short muzzle and short drop ears, then it's a pit cross and watch out.

*shakes head*

Cait

[cait furness]

sometimes it *is* in the handling, yes, but the original traits of a particular breed still are there, or ought to be, for it to be that particular breed.

Maggie is still somewhat protective and I, as her handler, better be able to handle that so it doesn't get out of hand.  that comes in handy for me if I'm out late at night by myself, but I need to keep it under control at all other times and I do.  Someone else might allow her to become overly suspicious and start growling at everybody she meets, for example.

Just as an aside, sort of, what was the flat tie bred for?  Now I know they are retrievers, but what specifically?  Upland birds or what?

Cait the incurable curious cat

[Melanie Akpotu]

I kind of just feel sorry for all these breeds really as they are so grossly misused.  I used to know a Texan with 3 Pits, and they lived outside in a one acre enclosure with an electric fence.  He was not cruel to them and they were not tied up, hence the fence, but sometimes they would escape and then he would have to go after them in his truck, that was if the fence shorted.  When he only had the one, he used to have her indoors, but when he got more, they lived outside in a kennel.  He had to be careful with the 2 females at feeding time as one would attack the other but that is fairly common for any breed I guess.  He didn’t really feed them that well at times, the cheapest food he could buy from the supermarket and if he couldn’t afford that, they would just get table scraps.  I suspect these were some of the luckier ones in many cases.  I’ve seen a lot of rescue programmes on channels like Animal Planet etc, and in parts of the States, it seems quite common for dogs to be kept outside, whereas it is rare here.  But I guess it is different with different cultures and societies.  In parts of Europe, most dogs and cats are kept outside, same with Africa and India too.

[cait furness]

Mel,

This story makes me cringe.

I know this guy probably thought he was doing his dogs well, but..ugh!

I understand it's common in parts of Europe and other parts of the world, too, but it still makes me cringe to think of dogs living like this.

Cait

[Melanie Akpotu]

I know, it was really awful.  They got through the fence and it all happened so quickly, she had no idea either would react in that manner.  I’ve walked that way often with all my dogs over the years, and none of them have shown any interest in the horses at all thankfully, although there is a fence between them, but sometimes the horses come to the fence and we pet them, but the dogs just keep back a bit out of the way, which is sensible!!!  At least all mine have had the sense to treat the horses with respect, but then again I don’t own Terriers and would never want to for this reason of them never giving up in a fight!!  I am sure it must make them a bit harder to train too!!

[Peter]

Julia,

So upon our meeting, if I jump all over you and lick your ears, are you going to tell everybody that I’m daft?

[cait furness]

all of my dogs have been sensible around horses and if they aren't, they learn pretty fast.  I won't tolerate any foolishness and usually one kick will set it straight if they're really stupid.  But, you don't want anything like what you talked about happening first.  You have to have horses who aren't scared of dogs, etc.

I do love all dogs, but I'm not a terrier person.  I have a neighbour right now who wants Maggie to meet her Yorkie who is hell on wheels and I'm not for that at all.  If they do happen to meet out on the street it's going to be all I can do not to kick him into next week, lol!  He's always yapping and jumping all over the place and she's always got him on a flex lead.

Cait

[cait furness]

*Cait gets out the fire extinguisher*

[Melanie Akpotu]

Yeah I know, but in some parts of the world, the people have a hard enough time to have a roof over their own heads, and dogs really just don’t have the appeal they have here, plus there is the feeding.  My husband is from Africa and he feeds one of the neighbour’s dogs.  She is pregnant right now and I feel so sorry for her.  She is never allowed in the house, it just isn't done.  At night she is even shut outside the compound I think.  He always buys her meat at night and gives it to her before he goes indoors, and she waits for him every night.  The owners give her just food scraps that they don’t want I think, but she does look in good condition as my mum has seen pictures of her, and by standards out there, she is probably again one of the lucky ones.  My husband said that if most people knew he bought meat especially for a dog, they would consider him crazy!!!  But I guess it is what she is used to and she is not cruelly treated like being beaten or anything, and she seems happy enough with her lot.  In truth she would probably hate being shut in anyway, as it is always so hot out there, at night it is very very humid.  You can’t really survive without a fan or some kind of air conditioning.  Very interesting place and people though!!  Smiles!!

 

Mel.

[Melanie Akpotu]

Oh don’t get me started on that one, Flexileads!!  Why people have them on busy streets and near roads is beyond me, and they let their dogs come wandering over to “say hello” and then the lead gets tangled round your legs.  Bloody awful things unless used in a proper open space, and also very dangerous in my opinion.

[Peter]

Mel,

just imagine the other patrons who are eating when ten or more of us come in with ten or more guide dogs. Hey it might make the news papers!

 

From: Melanie Akpotu

Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 4:20 AM

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Jim, ready to attack

 

Lol, lol, what a riot that would be and imagine all the dogs!!

 

From: Peter

Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 1:18 AM

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Jim, ready to attack

 

Jim,

Why do these beautiful women have to live all the way over there across the pond?

Jim I have a new person editing my book. So I’ll tell you what. If this story becomes a best seller. Friend I’m taking you with me over to the British Isles.

Jim just think how envious everyone is going to be when you and I walk into a restaurant with Julia, Melanie, Sara, Jennie, Louise, Tony and Anne. Friend we will be the envy of the United Kingdom!!!    

 

From: Jim Armstrong

Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 4:28 PM

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Jim, ready to attack

Hey Melony,,

If you want me to crash my bike, just wear one of those tops and let me have a feel of it.

The good Lord sure knew the way to a man's heart when he formed those two supple places on a woman's chest and told men:

"You can look but you cannot touch!"

What a horrible fate for me and others.

Its sort of like being tossed into hell.

My brain just starts going crazy with the thought of Spring and girls in their summer clothes coming round the bend.

Oh but wait!  Did I forget to mention soft supple thighs?

What's wrong with me? 

<huge smiles>

 

Jim who has spring feavor

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Melanie Akpotu

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 5:31 PM

Subject: Re: Pit Bull attack

 

Hahahaha!!  My sister and I almost caused a bloke to come off his motorbike in Greece a couple of years ago, when we walked down the road but not in tight jeans but in revealing tops, lol!!  Then 2 men were drinking outside a bar and one man choked on his drink and spilt it all down the front of him as we passed, and his friend could not stop laughing!!  Neither could we!!

From: Peter

Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 9:33 PM

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Pit Bull attack

Julia,

there are some states in the US that are not allowing people to own them.

When we hear about dog attacks, I’d say most are from pit bulls.

I’ll agree to a point that the owners of these dogs contribute to the problem.

However I also think it is the breed of the dog.

I don’t trust these dogs. When my children were very small. I wouldn’t allow them to go anywhere near those dogs.

Julia, since I missed your birthday, this is what I’m going to do.

To celebrate the US kicking the butt out of you Brits in the Revolutionary war. On July forth I’m going to send you a pair of tight jeans.

All I need from you is the color, and the size. Now please put the size in English. Well something I can understand.

Julia, like those pit bulls, sometimes things happen to people. It really isn’t their fault. They grow up with no friends. Well except imaginary ones. Even these make believe friends don’t want to associate with these people.

They grow up angry, and show little or no respect for others.

They pray on the weaker sex. In their delusionary mind they have no respect for women. They also believe it is there business to interject there feelings where they don’t belong.

These males, I won’t call them men; I really don’t know what to call them. Well I do, but not in this forum.

I’m not going to name anybody by name. It must be hell for this person or perhaps persons who are living like this.

Hey we all have heard all good things come to an end. Hey we had a few weeks of pleasure. However  like the locus somebody returned. Oh well I wish it was like the locus, took seven years for him to come back.

Oh Julia, Goddess of the tight jeans. Oh Mel I’m not forgetting about you in your tight jeans. Have you two ladies ever stopped traffic while you two beauties went for a walk?

We all ready know Sarah has caused a few traffic jams.  

 

     

       

From: J Kimbell

Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 3:29 PM

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Pit Bull attack

They are evil dogs. Not their fault, just what humans have bred in to them and the behaviour they encourage. they are supposed to be illegal here but they are here nonetheless. they get them in to the UK via the Irish Republic.

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Peter

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 7:31 PM

Subject: Pit Bull attack

 

I heard on the news today that a woman was walking her six year old daughter to school.

Five pit bulls attacked them.  The woman was protecting her daughter. the mother had bites over 90 percent of her body. She is at the hospital in serious condition. 

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[Jim Armstrong]

Here in the US, the smaller courts are simply filled to over-flowing with cases of dog attacks, and the majority of the plaintives are bring suit against; guess what?

Those adorable little pit-bulls.

as a matter of face, many communities have a manditory law that says they will be destroyed on the first nuisance call.

Pretty severe!  but something has to be done about them.

 

Enough said.

[Jim Armstrong]

Hey Mel,

Sorry to come off so stupid but what the hell is a Staf?

I'll be sitting here across the pond awaiting your post to explain.

Am I the only dummy on this list?

[Donna Winters]

mel ,i cant let my daughter take my pet dog out a walk in the tramlines behind us as there is a jack russell with a staffy from the local farm running loose round there together and they run up growling and snarling .donna

-----Original

From: cait furness - Email Address: caitlyn...@gmail.com
Sent On: 09/05/2013 19:03
Sent To: guide-dog-e-chat@googlegrouÜß ps.com - Email Address: guide-dog-e-chat@googlegrouÜß ps.com
Subject: Re: a discussion about, Pit Bull attack

Wow, that is a problem, Mel.
Those off lead dogs definitely should be under control. Is there some sort of authority you could report them to for that sort of thing?
Cait

On 2013-05-09, at 10:16 AM, "Melanie Akpotu" <dilly_t...@btinternet.com> wrote:

> Well mostly here bites and attacks on people and other dogs are from Stafs or Staf crosses.

> Not saying other breeds don't bite as any dog is capable of doing so. My sister was bitten by a Lab as a child. There's just been a population explosion of them here and you can't really give them away for love nor money and the rescue shelters are full of them. I've met a lot of nice ones, but also plenty of aggressive to other dogs ones who are often off leash out of control, or straining and nearly pulling their owners over to get to my dogs. If they don't ban these breeds, then there should be some restrictions or law to say they should be muzzled in a public place. I like all dogs, but now my life is altered in that I can't free run my pet anymore for fear of the bloody things, that can't be right. My parents dog was almost killed by 2 off leash ones last year and the owner was not able to easily get them off, it's disgraceful, and he still walks around with them off leash.
> From: cait furness
> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 5:19 PM

> To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: a discussion about, Pit Bull attack
>

> Sorry, Peter.
> If you look at the statistics for dog bites, the most dog bites have been for breeds like labs and goldens, not staffs and other b bull type breeds.
> You hear media coverage of things like this because it's sensational and being bitten by a lab or other breed just isn't media worthy. Plain and simple.
> You don't hear about attacks by military or police dogs because they are under control for the most part and if they aren't they are destroyed.
> Cait
>
> On 2013-05-07, at 11:50 AM, "Peter" <black...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Caitlyn,
>> Perhaps I don't have the dog knowledge you have.
>> However I can put two and two together.
>> I agree somewhat with you.
>> However people mistreat all breeds of dogs. German Shepherds, Doberman Pinchers, Great Danes, and even the breeds of our beloved guide dogs. Heck even small dog breeds.
>> How often do you hear about a lab killing people? Or a pack of golden retrievers roaming the streets attacking people?
>> Every now and again we hear about other dog breeds that have hurt people.
>> However we hear about pit bulls all the time. why is this? Are these dogs being mistreated more than other breeds?
>> The Military use many dogs for defense. Why don't they use pit bulls? Could it be that there just to unpredictable?
>> I truly believe it goes far beyond just being mistreated.
>>
>>
>> From: cait furness

>> Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 6:51 PM
>> To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

>> Subject: Re: a discussion about, Pit Bull attack
>>
>> Ok, not to diminish this particular attack, *but*.. it's not the particular breed, it's the idiots that own the dogs. You start banning any breed and where does it stop? It could be your loveable labs next, or any other of our dogs.
>> Control is the key, not breed bans.
>> Caitlyn, all for responsible ownership and laws with teeth, not breed bans. breed bans don't work anyway
>>
>> On 2013-05-06, at 5:10 PM, "Peter" <black...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Here is an update about this dog attack.
>>> The woman was 29. She told her daughter to run while she fought off the dogs.
>>> The report I jus heard was the woman is alright. She might be released sometime this week.
>>> The dogs were captured. It seems one man owns all five dogs.
>>> The dogs climbed a fence to get this woman and her daughter.
>>> It seems people in the area have been making complaints about these dogs.
>>> It takes something like this to happen for people to take action.
>>> Jim I wouldn't be crushed if these dogs were outlawed.
>>>

[Melanie Akpotu]

Sorry!!  A Staffordshire Bull Terrier, lol!

[Donna Winters]

the 2 dogs i spoke about earlyer are running near livestock .not sure if they are bothering them yet but it is a matter of time as they are already catching the wild rabbits round here .the farm where they come from have stables but not sure if they go near the horses .there use to be a black lab that run with them but no one knows what has happened to it .that and the jack russell was picked up a time or two by the dog warden .donna





-
From: Melanie Akpotu - Email Address: dilly_t...@btinternet.com
Sent On: 09/05/2013 22:08
Sent To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com - Email Address: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

[Melanie Akpotu]

I know, this sort of thing is just not on is it?

[Melanie Akpotu]

Hmm, I didn’t find out but remind me and I will try to do so.  It does seem a shame like with her, she had done nothing wrong except being the wrong dog in the wrong place because of bloody stupid human beings – again!!

 

From: J Kimbell

Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 1:27 PM

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: a discussion about, Pit Bull attack

 

Did you ever find out if she was destroyed or not? I know there was some debate at the time whether they shoudlnt just spay her and find her a good home.

Julia

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Melanie Akpotu

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:34 AM

Subject: Re: a discussion about, Pit Bull attack

 

Well they supposedly are here, but the powers that be struggle to enforce the law, and often there is a discrepancy over whether a dog is really a Pit Bull or some sort of Bull Terrier cross and sometimes this has to be decided in court.  There was a Pit at our vets a couple of years ago, being held there on behalf of the police as she had been seized, and apparently she was a beautiful dog.  It is a real shame that through unscrupulous breeding and training and treatment, such monsters are created as to ruin it for genuine lovers of the breed.

Same with any breed actually!

Mel.

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.930 / Virus Database: 2425.1.1/5035 - Release Date: 05/31/12 07:34:00

[Melanie Akpotu]

Louise, my point exactly.  Some dogs have through generations been bred for a certain purpose, even if they are rarely used in that way now, us as humans bred certain traits into them.  After all, look at all the different shapes and sizes of dog breeds, all what we have done since apparently most dogs can be traced back to wolves.  So many different shapes and sizes and traits.  If I want a dog to scare off the local hooligans, I am not going to pick a Golden really, am I?  Perhaps a Mastiff or a Rottweiler would be more appropriate.  Then if I want it to be really really mean, not just in size and appearance, I am sure if I was one of these shitbags who do such things, I could far more easily teach it to be nasty than I could a Lab or Lurcher.

 

Mel.

 

From: Louise Redsull

Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 5:45 PM

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Subject: RE: a discussion about, Pit Bull attack

 

I think it’s about how dogs are trained. So say someone is wanting a dog to scare people. They are more likely to choose a breed which have a reputation for being more likely to be aggressive. Then when they get the dog they want they train it to be aggressive.

 

Louise.

 

 

From: guide-do...@googlegroups.com [mailto:guide-do...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Sent: 07 May 2013 4:51 PM
To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: a discussion about, Pit Bull attack

 

Caitlyn,

Perhaps I don’t have the dog knowledge you have.

However I can put two and two together.

I agree somewhat with you.

However people mistreat all breeds of dogs. German Shepherds, Doberman Pinchers, Great Danes, and even the breeds of our beloved guide dogs. Heck even small dog breeds.

How often do you hear about a lab killing people? Or a pack of golden retrievers roaming the streets attacking people?

Every now and again we hear about other dog breeds that have hurt people.

However we hear about pit bulls all the time. why is this? Are these dogs being mistreated more than other breeds?

The Military use many dogs for defense. Why don’t they use pit bulls? Could it be that there just to unpredictable?

I truly believe it goes far beyond just being mistreated. 

 

 

From: cait furness

Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 6:51 PM

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: a discussion about, Pit Bull attack

 

Ok, not to diminish this particular attack, *but*.. it's not the particular breed, it's the idiots that own the dogs.  You start banning any breed and where does it stop?  It could be your loveable labs next, or any other of our dogs.

Control is the key, not breed bans.

Caitlyn, all for responsible ownership and laws with teeth, not breed bans.  breed bans don't work anyway

On 2013-05-06, at 5:10 PM, "Peter" <black...@earthlink.net> wrote:

Here is an update about this dog attack.

The woman was 29. She told her daughter to run while she fought off the dogs.

The report I jus heard was the woman is alright. She might be released sometime this week.

The dogs were captured. It seems one man owns all five dogs.

The dogs climbed a fence to get this woman and her daughter.

It seems people in the area have been making complaints about these dogs.

It takes something like this to happen for people to take action.

Jim I wouldn’t be crushed if these dogs were outlawed.   

 

From: Jim Armstrong

Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 5:00 PM

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[Peter]

Jim,

Us Americans being the minority on this list, well we are going to have to learn a hole new vocabulary; to keep up with these Brits!

[Peter]

Many years ago, I think in the early eighties. I was training with my yellow lab Billy. I don’t remember the woman's name, nor her dog.

We were what is called free lancing with our dogs. We went out in tandem, to wherever we wanted to go.

We were working in White Plains New York. This is a fairly large city in Westchester county in New York.

In any case what we were told was that a pit bull attacked this woman's guide dog. The pit locked it’s jaws around the dogs throat and killed the dog.

I can’t remember what ever happened, if they found the pit or not.

Melanie,

we have a law that no dogs are aloud on streets unless they are leashed. Any dogs freely running will be picked up by the dog catcher. The owners will have a hefty fine when they pick up the dog. However there are so many dogs, and only a few dog catchers.

JJ is so dossal, that I worry when we are out, he will be attacked by another dog.

Wen it comes to my dogs safety I don’t care if the dog is a tea cup poodle, or a pit bull.

I have the right to be on the sidewalks, or in parks, or wherever without having to worry for my dogs safety and mine.  

[Dorothy Twyman]

What a brave lady, 

Dot and Abby 

[Dorothy Twyman]

Hi Mel

Abby has been attacked 5 times by staffs thankfully they were in the leash at the time

Dot and Abby 

On 7 May 2013, at 22:22, "Melanie Akpotu" <dilly_t...@btinternet.com> wrote:

I think a lot of it is their breeding, watt they were bred for, and also that by their nature and appearance they fall into unscrupulous hands more than do say the Labradors and Goldens of this world.  Pits are banned here, supposedly, although they are still in sufficient numbers if you ask me.  I really think all these Bull Terrier breeds are a liability because here at least, they are mostly owned by thick families who have no idea about socialising and bringing up dogs properly.  The Staffordshire Bull Terrier for instance, is usually good with people, but they have a terrible reputation with other dogs.  There is one of them, or probably a Pit Bull, going around here and quite a few other dogs have been killed by this (think it’s a pair actually!), so I now can’t free run my small pet dog alone, as he just wouldn’t stand a chance.  It’s criminal and if they don’t ban them, all such breeds should be muzzled in public here in my view.

 

 

 

From: Peter

Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 4:50 PM

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: a discussion about, Pit Bull attack

 

Caitlyn,

Perhaps I don’t have the dog knowledge you have.

However I can put two and two together.

I agree somewhat with you.

However people mistreat all breeds of dogs. German Shepherds, Doberman Pinchers, Great Danes, and even the breeds of our beloved guide dogs. Heck even small dog breeds.

How often do you hear about a lab killing people? Or a pack of golden retrievers roaming the streets attacking people?

Every now and again we hear about other dog breeds that have hurt people.

However we hear about pit bulls all the time. why is this? Are these dogs being mistreated more than other breeds?

The Military use many dogs for defense. Why don’t they use pit bulls? Could it be that there just to unpredictable?

I truly believe it goes far beyond just being mistreated. 

 

 

From: cait furness

Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 6:51 PM

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: a discussion about, Pit Bull attack

 

Ok, not to diminish this particular attack, *but*.. it's not the particular breed, it's the idiots that own the dogs.  You start banning any breed and where does it stop?  It could be your loveable labs next, or any other of our dogs.

Control is the key, not breed bans.

Caitlyn, all for responsible ownership and laws with teeth, not breed bans.  breed bans don't work anyway

[J Kimbell]

Horrible things they are too.

 

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[J Kimbell]

So there you are. My Collie was on the receiving end of Staf attacks quite a few times in her life and it wa never her fault as it always happened when she was leashed. Evil things they are. They are declining in popularity, or so I've read several times.

 

[J Kimbell]

Yorkies, god I hate them things. they arent dogs, but rats on ropes.

 

[J Kimbell]

I agree though we use one for busying Wren but for that purpose only and in an open space.

 

[Cait and Maggie]

I"ve only met a couple of them that were civilized.  Most of them are little twits, bouncing around and yapping their little faces off.  quite a few people in my building have chihuahuas also and I am beginning to have a nice little hatred of those too now.  Little rats.

Cait

[Peter]

Mel,

and the sizzling hot Julia,

I also think those flexi leads are ridiculous when on the streets.

How Could you possibly have control over your dog when there roaming around, doing whatever they want?

I think your endangering the life and welfare of the dog. Not only that people who are also on the streets, why should they have to be subjected to these dogs? Not everybody loves dogs the way we do.

My sister and brother-in-law uses these flexi leads. When we are out for a walk, and when JJ isn’t in harness. I walk him on a short leash. I know wear he is at all times.

My sister thinks I should allow J to move about more I say absolutely not. If I’m not certain where he is, then I have no idea what he is getting into. After all he is a dog.

Afew years ago, we had an event which I told you about called Top Dog. Quite a few of us went out for dinner. We had to cross this four lane highway, no big deal.

In any case this man Gary said his dog had to go to the bathroom. He took off the harness. Then good grief he took off the dogs leash. My God we were on a busy highway. Thankfully nothing happened to the dog.

OK this is different then using one of these flexi leads. However we have to know where our dogs are at all times. are

[Vincent Thacker]

Peter, got to agree with youthat those flexi-leads have no place in the strees. I've got one, on advice from somebody else, but it's still in its because I;'ve never yet had a situation where I wanted to use it. Fine if you've got an open space and for some reason can't free-run the dog, but for me I'm either working the dog or he's on a free run or he's indoors. Am I missing something?

Vince.

========================================
Message Received: May 18 2013, 02:19 PM
From: "Peter"
To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com
Cc:

urban myth.

Cait

 

Just kidding of course!

[J Kimbell]

I agree Flexis have no place in any street, but its a useful thing to have in reserve, for, as you say, in case you cant free run the dog for some reason. When my Collie was mailed by a GS I couldnt free run her for some weeks in case it damaged the stitches as it was on her back, so I dug out my flexi.She could run around a bit but not out of my control. You just never know if and when you may need it. I've got two lying around.

[Donna Winters]

i take my flexi lead on holiday with me .i use it to spend my dogs where we stay as i do not use my working lead for this .and she knows i want her to spend when i take her to the side of the caravan in a area which has 3 sides fenced in but i dont want her slipping past me . .
donna
-----Original Message-----
From: J










- Email Address: whitet...@ntlworld.com
Sent On: 18/05/2013 16:01
Sent To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com - Email Address: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

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[Louise Redsull]

Peter,

I agree completely with this. With a flexi lead you don’t have control over your dogs. They have no place on the streets, in a park or field then maybe but that’s it. I also think some people use them as a way of free running their dogs as they can’t be bothered to invest the time in training their dogs to come back to them. I know some breeds are harder to train than others but the amount of people I see walking their dogs only on the leed is very disappointing. Most of them say they don’t trust their dogs to come back. I think this is a real shame for the dogs as they need some freedom and it does frustrate me how lazy many owners can be. They just want the dog to be perfect out of the box and don’t appreciate if you want your dog to come back it takes time, trust and practice.

I know when training our pet retriever when I was a kid we used a flexi lead at first as he hadn’t received full recall training yet. We only used it once as he ran off to the end of the lead and clean yanked the lead out of the plastic holder and was off anyway.

 

Louise.

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[Derek Hornby]

Louise
GDBA uses flexi lead when training!
Many guide dog owners use flexi lead in open spaces!

Derek
Derek

From: J Kimbell <mailto:whitet...@ntlworld.com>

Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 3:58 PM

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: for Cait. a discussion about, Pit Bull attack



I agree though we use one for busying Wren but for that purpose only and in
an open space.



----- Original Message -----

From: Melanie Akpotu <mailto:dilly_t...@btinternet.com>

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 10:43 PM

Subject: Re: for Cait. a discussion about, Pit Bull attack



Oh don't get me started on that one, Flexileads!! Why people have
them on busy streets and near roads is beyond me, and they let their dogs
come wandering over to "say hello" and then the lead gets tangled round your
legs. Bloody awful things unless used in a proper open space, and also very
dangerous in my opinion.



Mel.

From: cait furness <mailto:caitlyn...@gmail.com>

Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 6:51 PM

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: for Cait. a discussion about, Pit Bull attack



urban myth.

Cait



On 2013-05-09, at 1:46 PM, "Jim Armstrong"
<invinc...@comcast.net> wrote:





Hi Cait,

I am going to keep this very short as I have a migraine headache and
must hit the bed soon.

About the Pit-bulls though.



I have heard it said that the most frightening fact about them is
that they have a grip strength of three thousand pounds per square inch,
plus once they bite, their teeth are designed in a way that makes it
impossible for them to let go of someone, and this is the reason for the
extreme damage they do.



True or false?

Thanks loads.

Must go lay down now.



Peace,

Jim

----- Original Message -----

[Sandra Heaton]

 

 

I don't care much for those flexie leads, I do have one but I have only used it once and it got caught round a tree.  So I don't like them as like you say, you don't really have control very much over your dog.

Sandra
Braille Greeting Cards
www.braille-greetings-cards.co.uk

[Sandra Heaton]

Yes Derek I know they do but there is a bit of a difference for an
instructor using one as they can see.

Sandra
Braille Greeting Cards
www.braille-greetings-cards.co.uk

[Cait and Maggie]

Even if you can see, there's always tension on the lead with them. Not a good thing, imho. I never really liked them when I had sight, either. they might have very limited uses, but mostly they're a waste of the materials they're made of.
Cait

[Sandra Heaton]

Yes Kate Agreeing with this.

[Cait and Maggie]

Sandra,
Yes, I've had them get wrapped round things as well! Not fun at all getting them untangled.
If I need to use a long line, I have a soft nylon one that's about twenty feet long and I use that instead. I can pay it out as much or as little as I like. Yes, it can still wrap around things if we're in an area with trees, but I try and not use it around trees.
Speaking of free runs, I found a dog park near us this past week! This is exciting for us because I'd thought there wasn't palace near us for free runs. This is a leash free park and it's fenced. the area is quite large. We went there yesterday and Maggie had a nice run with about five other dogs. She had a particularly good time with a Great Dane named Bentley. We even met another Doberman and a few mixed breeds. all the dogs were well behaved, which I found refreshing. I was worried about that and was prepared to leave, but thankfully we didn't have to do that.
Cait

[Louise Redsull]

I'd agree with this. I can see how a guide dog owner might use one when
spending their dog but for me that'd mean I wouldn't know where the mess was
and could not clean it up. I've never been given a flexi lead from guide
dogs either.

Louise.

-----

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[Derek Hornby]

Yes but many guide dog owners use the flexi.

[Sandra Heaton]

Kate,

How lovely! doesn't it make a change!

[J Kimbell]

Nor would I trust them and I dont trust Stafs either, my Collie was on the receiving end of Staf attacks a goodly few times over the years. And I'd agree with you, its what a dog is bred for, the traits are there.

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Peter

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 9:33 PM

Subject: Re: Pit Bull attack

Julia,

there are some states in the US that are not allowing people to own them.

When we hear about dog attacks, I’d say most are from pit bulls.

I’ll agree to a point that the owners of these dogs contribute to the problem.

However I also think it is the breed of the dog.

I don’t trust these dogs. When my children were very small. I wouldn’t allow them to go anywhere near those dogs.

Julia, since I missed your birthday, this is what I’m going to do.

To celebrate the US kicking the butt out of you Brits in the Revolutionary war. On July forth I’m going to send you a pair of tight jeans.

All I need from you is the color, and the size. Now please put the size in English. Well something I can understand.

Julia, like those pit bulls, sometimes things happen to people. It really isn’t their fault. They grow up with no friends. Well except imaginary ones. Even these make believe friends don’t want to associate with these people.

They grow up angry, and show little or no respect for others.

They pray on the weaker sex. In their delusionary mind they have no respect for women. They also believe it is there business to interject there feelings where they don’t belong.

These males, I won’t call them men; I really don’t know what to call them. Well I do, but not in this forum.

I’m not going to name anybody by name. It must be hell for this person or perhaps persons who are living like this.

Hey we all have heard all good things come to an end. Hey we had a few weeks of pleasure. However  like the locus somebody returned. Oh well I wish it was like the locus, took seven years for him to come back.

Oh Julia, Goddess of the tight jeans. Oh Mel I’m not forgetting about you in your tight jeans. Have you two ladies ever stopped traffic while you two beauties went for a walk?

We all ready know Sarah has caused a few traffic jams.  

 

     

       

 

From: J Kimbell

Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 3:29 PM

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Pit Bull attack

 

They are evil dogs. Not their fault, just what humans have bred in to them and the behaviour they encourage. they are supposed to be illegal here but they are here nonetheless. they get them in to the UK via the Irish Republic.

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Peter

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 7:31 PM

Subject: Pit Bull attack

 

I heard on the news today that a woman was walking her six year old daughter to school.

Five pit bulls attacked them.  The woman was protecting her daughter. the mother had bites over 90 percent of her body. She is at the hospital in serious condition. 

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[J Kimbell]

Well, you are both rather large up top, laughing!!!! (Duck)!!!

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Melanie Akpotu

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 10:31 PM

Subject: Re: Pit Bull attack

Hahahaha!!  My sister and I almost caused a bloke to come off his motorbike in Greece a couple of years ago, when we walked down the road but not in tight jeans but in revealing tops, lol!!  Then 2 men were drinking outside a bar and one man choked on his drink and spilt it all down the front of him as we passed, and his friend could not stop laughing!!  Neither could we!!

[J Kimbell]

hORRENDOUS.

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Peter

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 11:53 PM

Subject: Re: Pit Bull attack

Jim,

I have to disagree with you.

Yes this is how they train, or teach these dogs to fight.

They cut off there ears and tails, so the other dogs can’t latch on to them. Now these dogs are only bred to fight, and die in the arena.

However many people have these dogs as so called pets. How many have turned on there owners? As what happened to this woman I told you about. These dogs weren’t trained to fight in the ring.

I think something is wrong with the breed.

These dogs are being outlawed in many of our states, and in other countries. There has to be something to this.

 

From: Jim Armstrong

Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 5:14 PM

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Pit Bull attack

 

Howdy!  That is how we say hello here in the southern part of the United States. <LOL>

 

About these pit bulls...

I know of people who want to make them mean so they can serve as a guard dog or a fighting dog in arenas where they gamble on them.

So these owners start when the dogs are very young and teach them to have a terrible disposition.

Here is just one example.

 

In due respect for the very young people on the list, this comes with a warning.

 

I know people who will approach their pit-bulls while they are asleep and reach over and pinch them hard on their Go-nads or testicles.

Not only does this cause pain, but it infuriates the dog also.

If someone woke me up by grabbing my testicles, I would grow up to be hateful as hell!

 

So in the dog's defense, people are the ones creating these behaviors, thus the dogs are not born evil.

They are turned into fighting, evil creatures.

 

Sometimes the dogs are denied food and water and neglected so they will be dangerous and hateful in the fighting ring as a means of making them wish to kill their apponent.  And kill them, they do.

 

Sometimes I believe that the person abusing the dogs are the ones who should be punished and killed.

 

Jim

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Peter

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 4:33 PM

Subject: Re: Pit Bull attack

 

[J Kimbell]

And has a corrupt mind, giggles.

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Jim Armstrong

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 9:28 PM

Subject: Re: Jim, ready to attack

Hey Melony,,

If you want me to crash my bike, just wear one of those tops and let me have a feel of it.

The good Lord sure knew the way to a man's heart when he formed those two supple places on a woman's chest and told men:

"You can look but you cannot touch!"

What a horrible fate for me and others.

Its sort of like being tossed into hell.

My brain just starts going crazy with the thought of Spring and girls in their summer clothes coming round the bend.

Oh but wait!  Did I forget to mention soft supple thighs?

What's wrong with me? 

<huge smiles>

 

Jim who has spring feavor

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Melanie Akpotu

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 5:31 PM

Subject: Re: Pit Bull attack

Hahahaha!!  My sister and I almost caused a bloke to come off his motorbike in Greece a couple of years ago, when we walked down the road but not in tight jeans but in revealing tops, lol!!  Then 2 men were drinking outside a bar and one man choked on his drink and spilt it all down the front of him as we passed, and his friend could not stop laughing!!  Neither could we!!

 

From: Peter

Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 9:33 PM

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Pit Bull attack

 

[J Kimbell]

Sounds like the recipe for a riotous party!!!!

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Peter

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 1:18 AM

Subject: Re: Jim, ready to attack

Jim,

Why do these beautiful women have to live all the way over there across the pond?

Jim I have a new person editing my book. So I’ll tell you what. If this story becomes a best seller. Friend I’m taking you with me over to the British Isles.

Jim just think how envious everyone is going to be when you and I walk into a restaurant with Julia, Melanie, Sara, Jennie, Louise, Tony and Anne. Friend we will be the envy of the United Kingdom!!!    

[J Kimbell]

Chaos indeed!!!!

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Melanie Akpotu

To: guide-do...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:20 AM

Subject: Re: Jim, ready to attack

Lol, lol, what a riot that would be and imagine all the dogs!!

[Peter]

Julia,

it would be like dying and going to heaven!

Jim just think, you and I surrounded by a group of beautiful British angels!

To switch the subject. I just heard on the news.

Oklahoma is a state in the US.

A tornado, has devastated a community. Two elementary schools were destroyed, one took a direct hit. The horrible part was that children were in school. I heard parts of the school are no longer there.

I have to go listen to the news,

[J Kimbell]

Did you say "angels"? Hardly!! You havent heard Mel and me swear yet!!!!

[Melanie Akpotu]

Cait, what terrific news!!

[Peter]

Jim and I, two Yanks. Walking into let’s say a restaurant.

We will reach our table. Jim you go left, I’ll go right. What we have to do is pull out the ladies chairs, and make certain there dogs are under the seats.

Jim I just bet every guy in the restaurant will have there eyes on our table.

I can just hear guys talking. Hey isn’t she, the gorgeous woman in the blue blouse, isn’t she the Cyber Beauty?

I haven’t looked at her yet. I’m checking out those two stunners in the tight jeans.

Oh my God, did you see those two in the tight jean skirts?

Jim this would just be a preview of what we have in store for us in heaven!!!    

[J Kimbell]

Oh, I think its useful to have one for emergencies, but I havent used one on
Wren and I have two lying about. Oh hubby uses one if he spends Wren as she
will not use the garden, but he can see to pick up. She knows when we use
the flexi its spe3nd time. and its the only time we use it. But there might
come a time when I may have to use it for whatever reason. I had to use one
on my second guide dog if I was alone as he wouldnt come back, his recall
was awful, so I had to walk around with him on a flexi, and yes I did get
caught up round bushes and trees but had no choice in the matter!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Cait and Maggie]

Yes, it is good!
We went back again today but there wasn't anyone there today but Maggie and Flint. when we were getting ready to leave another dog came but he was obnoxious, running up to Maggie and getting up in her face which she didn't appreciate since she was already in harness at that point. Needless to say I got us out of there fast!

Not long after that, though, we wet standing near the entrance and the other Doberman came back followed by a bulldog, lol! We were talking to a lady who had a german shepherd puppy and was asking about Flint. I think we're going to meet some nice people there. We might meet the odd nut, but then, that's normal.. Even the obnoxious dog's owner was nice, his dog was just overexcited, at least he wasn't snapping, just jumping around and happy.
Cait