FW: GTFS-DRT - Proposed group, welcome and announcement emails
Kevin Chambers
This is one in a series of emails I'm forwarding to the new GTFS Flexible Transit Working Group. These emails make up the initial conversation that led to the creation of the working group. I'm sending them with permission of the original senders for archival purposes, allowing new participants to the conversation to get up to speed.
From: Aaron Antrim [mailto:aa...@trilliumtransit.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 10:18 PM
To: Denis Haskin
Cc: Sean Barbeau; Heather Menninger; Becker, Jeff; Kevin Chambers; Kevin Webb; Roger Teal
Subject: Re: GTFS-DRT - Proposed group, welcome and announcement emails
The primary comments so far concern the name of the group. Denis is concerned that the "Demand Responsive Transport" term is too specific. Upon further consideration and research, I share Denis's concern.
The name of the group is probably fairly important because it immediately suggests expectations and assumptions.
A Google search shows that DRT is often used as a synonym for dial-a-ride transit. Further, the Wikipedia article I referenced reports that DRT is distinct from deviated fixed route service and several other modes (embarrassingly, I didn't catch that heading when I quickly scanned the article). The forward of TCRP Report 98 states "For the purposes of this research, DRT was understood to include point-to-point services and not point-deviation and route-deviation services."
I'm interested in adding capabilities to represent flex route (route/point deviation) services in GTFS, and have been intending this group as an appropriate venue for that discussion. I'm not sure what categories of service the international cases Kevin Webb mentioned would fall into, but I believe they are something other than what is generally considered to be DRT in the United States.
This brings me to suggest an alternative. How about GTFS Flexible Services Working Group?
Advantages: "Flexible" is not tied to any highly-specific definition of service (as far as I know). Further, it directly contrasts to "fixed-route/schedule."
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Denis Haskin <DHa...@camsys.com> wrote:
Aaron -- thanks for doing that. I took a look, added a comment.
--
Denis Haskin
Senior Architect/Senior Associate
Cambridge Systematics, Inc
direct line: 617-234-0480
www.camsys.com
-----Aaron Antrim <aa...@trilliumtransit.com> wrote: -----
To: Roger Teal <Roger...@demandtrans.com>, Kevin Chambers <kcha...@rideconnection.org>,
Sean Barbeau <bar...@cutr.usf.edu>, Heather Menninger <hea...@ammatransitplanning.com>, Denis Haskin <DHa...@camsys.com>,
"Becker, Jeff" <Jeff....@rtd-denver.com>, Kevin Webb <kw...@conveyal.com>
From: Aaron Antrim <aa...@trilliumtransit.com>
Date: 04/18/2013 02:43PM
Subject: GTFS-DRT - Proposed group, welcome and announcement emails
Hi all,
As promised, I've created a document that proposes a name for the discussion group, description, welcome email, and announcement email.
You can see the Google Doc here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FX3e0GPShTQuHa3kLkAQgpB-wPoj66lQGv_ZQtkpZ8M/edit?usp=sharing
Editing is turned on for anyone with the link, so you should be able to add comments or edits. Unless I hear something different, I'll plan to send out on Monday of next week.
In particular, please look over the proposed process in the welcome email to make sure this seems acceptable and reasonable. I tried to lay out some guidelines & expectations without being too limiting/formal.
I based this on the GTFS Fare Working Group: https://groups.google.com/group/gtfs-fare-wg
Be thinking of other people to invite to the GTFS-DRT Working Group.
Kevin Chambers
This is one in a series of emails I'm forwarding to the new GTFS Flexible Transit Working Group. These emails make up the initial conversation that led to the creation of the working group. I'm sending them with permission of the original senders for archival purposes, allowing new participants to the conversation to get up to speed.
From: Denis Haskin [mailto:DHa...@camsys.com]
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 6:51 AM
To: Aaron Antrim
Cc: Sean Barbeau; Heather Menninger; Becker, Jeff; Kevin Chambers; Kevin Webb; Roger Teal
Subject: Re: GTFS-DRT - Proposed group, welcome and announcement emails
+1 for "GTFS Flexible Services". But maybe not a bad idea to get Brian (or some other googler)'s feedback on it? Will be harder to change once it's out there.
--
Denis Haskin
Senior Architect/Senior Associate
Cambridge Systematics, Inc
direct line: 617-234-0480
www.camsys.com
-----Aaron Antrim <aa...@trilliumtransit.com> wrote: -----
To: Denis Haskin <DHa...@camsys.com>
From: Aaron Antrim <aa...@trilliumtransit.com>
Date: 04/19/2013 01:18AM
Cc: Sean Barbeau <bar...@cutr.usf.edu>, Heather Menninger <hea...@ammatransitplanning.com>, "Becker, Jeff" <Jeff....@rtd-denver.com>,
Kevin Chambers <kcha...@rideconnection.org>, Kevin Webb <kw...@conveyal.com>, Roger Teal <Roger...@demandtrans.com>
Kevin Chambers
This is one in a series of emails I'm forwarding to the new GTFS Flexible Transit Working Group. These emails make up the initial conversation that led to the creation of the working group. I'm sending them with permission of the original senders for archival purposes, allowing new participants to the conversation to get up to speed.
From: Roger Teal [mailto:Roger...@demandtrans.com]
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 6:53 AM
To: Aaron Antrim
Cc: Denis Haskin; Sean Barbeau; Heather Menninger; Becker, Jeff; Kevin Chambers; Kevin Webb
Subject: Re: GTFS-DRT - Proposed group, welcome and announcement emails
Flexible services is a good descriptor
Sent from my iPhone
Kevin Chambers
This is one in a series of emails I'm forwarding to the new GTFS Flexible Transit Working Group. These emails make up the initial conversation that led to the creation of the working group. I'm sending them with permission of the original senders for archival purposes, allowing new participants to the conversation to get up to speed.
From: Heather Menninger [mailto:hea...@ammatransitplanning.com]
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 6:55 AM
To: Roger Teal
Cc: Aaron Antrim; Denis Haskin; Sean Barbeau; Becker, Jeff; Kevin Chambers; Kevin Webb
Subject: Re: GTFS-DRT - Proposed group, welcome and announcement emails
I agree. That covers many potentialities.
Kevin Chambers
This is one in a series of emails I'm forwarding to the new GTFS Flexible Transit Working Group. These emails make up the initial conversation that led to the creation of the working group. I'm sending them with permission of the original senders for archival purposes, allowing new participants to the conversation to get up to speed.
From: Barbeau, Sean [mailto:bar...@cutr.usf.edu]
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 9:22 AM
To: Heather Menninger; Roger Teal
Cc: Aaron Antrim; Denis Haskin; Becker, Jeff; Kevin Chambers; Kevin Webb
Subject: RE: GTFS-DRT - Proposed group, welcome and announcement emails
Agreed.
Sean
Kevin Chambers
This is one in a series of emails I'm forwarding to the new GTFS Flexible Transit Working Group. These emails make up the initial conversation that led to the creation of the working group. I'm sending them with permission of the original senders for archival purposes, allowing new participants to the conversation to get up to speed.
From: Becker, Jeff [mailto:Jeff....@rtd-denver.com]
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 9:41 AM
To: Heather Menninger; Roger Teal
Cc: Aaron Antrim; Denis Haskin; Sean Barbeau; Kevin Chambers; Kevin Webb
Subject: RE: GTFS-DRT - Proposed group, welcome and announcement emails
Flexible Services is good, also marketable. RTD is presently considering rebranding our “Call-n-Ride” to “Flex-Ride,” precisely because we offer a mix of the services described below. So I think it will be helpful to have a better outline description of what’s included; I didn’t much care for the Wikipedia description. Here is something Roger and I have used for your consideration:
· Many-to-many/few – on-demand; community, county or metro-based [would include ADA complementary service]
· Feeder to transit network through scheduled connections and on-demand
· Point deviation – on-demand with dynamically or regularly scheduled checkpoints
· Route deviation (flex-route) – fixed route with regularly or dynamically scheduled, off-route checkpoints [includes developing world applications]
· Service routes – flex-routes designed for specific client groups or travel patterns; may be available to the general public [mostly developed in Europe, but also human services and rural agencies in the U.S.]
This would not include taxi, limousine, carshare, carpool, vanpool, or the latest online manifestations such as HAILO or Uber.
- JB
Kevin Chambers
This is one in a series of emails I'm forwarding to the new GTFS Flexible Transit Working Group. These emails make up the initial conversation that led to the creation of the working group. I'm sending them with permission of the original senders for archival purposes, allowing new participants to the conversation to get up to speed.
From: Denis Haskin [mailto:DHa...@camsys.com]
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 10:52 AM
To: Becker, Jeff
Cc: Aaron Antrim; Sean Barbeau; Heather Menninger; Kevin Chambers; Kevin Webb; Roger Teal
Subject: RE: GTFS-DRT - Proposed group, welcome and announcement emails
I agree taxi/carshare/etc is probably out of scope for this effort, but I will say that our project needs to include them as transportation alternatives. Whether that means
we will wedge them into some sort of GTFS representation or not, I don't know yet. That may be abusing the spec too much.
I like the breakdown you and Roger have used. I've got internal wiki page going where I'm trying to classify all the potential providers+services in the ARC service area, and that classification
will help.
Thanks,
--
Denis Haskin
Senior Architect/Senior Associate
Cambridge Systematics, Inc
direct line: 617-234-0480
www.camsys.com
From: "Becker, Jeff" <Jeff....@rtd-denver.com>
To: Heather Menninger <hea...@ammatransitplanning.com>,
Roger Teal <Roger...@demandtrans.com>,
Cc: Aaron Antrim <aa...@trilliumtransit.com>, Denis Haskin
<DHa...@camsys.com>, Sean Barbeau <bar...@cutr.usf.edu>, Kevin Chambers <kcha...@rideconnection.org>, Kevin Webb <kw...@conveyal.com>
Date: 04/19/2013 12:41 PM
Subject: RE: GTFS-DRT - Proposed group, welcome and announcement emails