re: [gtfs-changes] Working Group invite - Making GTFS work for the Rest of the World

[Denis Haskin]

Re: Neil's post to gtfs-changes about a new WG: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/gtfs-changes/h_lou3ISxUQ/gKTcsbwu7pAJ

My gut reaction is that everything Neil mentions can be covered in gtfs-flexible-wg, and another wg isn't needed, but I thought I'd bring it up for discussion here before I proposed that more publicly.

Opinions?

Thanks!

[Brian Ferris]

Speaking of which, what's the latest from the Flexible WG?  Beyond Aaron's welcome and Kevin's email dump, I haven't seen any traffic here.

Brian

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[Denis Haskin]

Good point.

For myself, I've been busy on other parts of the VTCLI projects we're doing.  I expect I'll be getting back to GTFS issues in several weeks.

Thanks,

Denis

[Aaron Antrim]

I brought this up with Neil and he suggested that there are enough differences between structured DRT services and more informal services that it makes sense to have two separate groups.  But, there may end up being some overlap in discussion, too.

[Neil Taylor]

Hi All

 

Denis you are right, there definitely are overlaps, but we were wary of conflating the two issues too much given that our previous attempts to enact change with the GTFS community along these lines have not been successful, because many of the people on the forum do not see the similarities/relevance to them. 

 

In the short term, the focus of the ‘Rest of the World’ working group is likely to be firmly fixed on how we can use GTFS to model non-stop and non-schedule-based transit systems, rather than those with dynamic/flexible routing (although that is a very logical extension!).  Having spoken with a small group of GTFS feed producers and consumers in the last couple of weeks these seem to be the key issues emerging for the rest of the world, along with a whole host of challenges associated with storing meta data about stop infrastructure, fares that are charged by distance / vary when it rains, and routes that flex based on how the operator feels that day/what the traffic is doing.

 

Some of these issues also interact with other relevant GTFS Working Groups, such as that set up last year to examine fare systems in greater detail.  As I see it, the aim of the RotW WG is to quickly (e.g. within the next month) identify and demonstrate intermediate changes to the GTFS spec that could resolve the major challenge of creating valid GTFS feeds for transit systems without formal stops and schedules.  Once this is achieved I sense we will be plugging the discussion around fare systems and flexible routing in transitional/developing cities back into the GTFS Flexible Working Group, and others that already exist covering these other topics.

 

It is certainly not my aim to create separate GTFS working groups for the sake of it, as they take quite a bit of management and corralling of individuals to create a community.  By way of example, a number of the people we have been speaking with in the last few weeks have been working to create GTFS feeds in cities with less rigid/informal transit systems; but have never looked at or posted on the GTFS Changes forum.

 

Best regards

Neil

 

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[Denis Haskin]

Neil -- thanks for the eloquent explanation.  I personally have no dog in this hunt, as they say, and whatever structure is most effective at getting things to progress, the better.

(Off I go to subscribe to the RotW group...)

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Denis Haskin

cell: 781-258-7414

[Neil Taylor]

Thanks Denis

 

It will be very interesting to see the dialogue play out over the coming weeks - I hope you are able to pitch in and help us dovetail the discussion into the GTFS Flexible working group.

 

Best regards

Neil

  

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