GTFS Fares Working Group: Next Steps

[Brian Ferris]

Short:

Review the Fares-of-the-World doc in the next two weeks (by Nov 23) before I send it out to the larger community for review.

Long:

Hey everyone,

I think we've made some good progress on cataloging some of the more complex fare systems of the world:

https://docs.google.com/a/google.com/document/d/1gqR91vncy9SXPHvWmV9EKlqADW0tyQxqLMfQRV_3FWA/edit#

Looking back at our plan of attack:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/gtfs-fare-wg/Cn7j9-n-N1I/discussion

The next step is to run our fares-of-the-world document by the larger transit developer community to see if we've missed any important edge-cases.  I've done some work to clean up and organize the document a bit, but I was hoping you guys could give it a once over before I send it out.

Action Item: take a look at the doc some time in the next two weeks (by Nov 23) and raise any comments, feedback, etc. you might have.

Assuming everything looks ok, we'll send it out, looking for broader feedback on any edge-cases we might have missed.

Sound reasonable?

Thanks,

Brian

[David Turner]

+1

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[Neil Taylor]

I can contribute the Manila use-case (which I think re-ignited this discussion about 5 months ago) later on this week.  Great work on the doc, which has come together really well.

[Neil Taylor]

I had some time to work on this today, but don't have editorial access to the doc, so have pasted my inputs in below:

Metro Manila, Philippines

LRT 1 (Light Rail Transit 1)

• Several different fare rates depending on how tickets are purchased and where you are travelling to:

Fares excluding those to and from Balintawak or Roosevelt Fares to and from Balintawak or Roosevelt Distance (no. of stations) 1–4 5–8 9–12 13–17 1–2 3–4 5–7 8–10 11–13 14–16 17–18 Single journey ticket fare (₱) 12 15 15 15 15 15 15 20 20 20 20 Stored value ticket fare (₱) 12 13 14 15 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

LRT 2 (Light Rail Transit 2)

• More simplified are system than LRT line 1:

Distance (no. of stations)	1–3	4–6	7–9	10
Single journey or stored value ticket fare (₱)	12	13	14	15

MRT 3 (Metro Rail Transit 3)

• Single ticket price to ride anywhere in the network.

Distance (no. of stations)	1–3	4–5	6–8	9-11	12+
Single journey or stored value ticket fare (₱)	10	11	12	14	15

Jeepney (Public Utility Jeepney or PUJ)

• Distance-based fare system.
• P8.5 for initial 4 km of journey distance
• P1 for every following 1.5km of journey distance
• No interchange allowed, so when alighting from Jeepney you start a new trip

Asian Utility Vehicle (AUV)

• Flat fare system which can be modelled within existing spec
• P50 per single trip
• No interchange allowed, so when alighting from AUV you start a new trip

Philippine National Railways (Heavy Commuter Rail)

• Paired stations fare system which can be modelled within existing spec
• Fare table posted below

Bus (non-aircon)

• Distance-based fare system.
• P9 for initial 5 km of journey distance
• P1.85 for every following 1km of journey distance
• No interchange allowed, so when alighting from bus you start a new trip

Bus (aircon)

• Distance-based fare system.
• P11 for initial 5 km of journey distance
• P2.20 for every following 1km of journey distance
• No interchange allowed, so when alighting from bus you start a new trip

[David Turner]

On Mon, 2012-11-26 at 06:08 -0800, Neil Taylor wrote:
> I had some time to work on this today, but don't have editorial access
> to the doc, so have pasted my inputs in below:

I'm a little confused by the LRT fares. First, are start/end stations
counted? In other words, if the stations of the line are
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8, and you board at 4 and alight at 7, is your trip 3,4,
or 5 stations long? Also on LRT-1, why are there different listings for
1-4 and 1-2, with 1-2 having a higher fare?


>

[Brian Ferris]

Hey Neil,

The fares document has mentions for distance-based fares (both distance traveled and # of stops traveled), so I'm hoping that covers all the holes in the spec identified in the Manila case?

Brian

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[Nicholas Albion]

What about penalties for fare evasion?

[David Turner]

Let's assume the use case is transit trip planning, and that trip
planners will encourage people to pay their fares rather than work out
whether it's worth it to evade them.

On Thu, 2012-11-29 at 15:47 -0800, Nicholas Albion wrote:
> What about penalties for fare evasion?
>

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[Neil Taylor]

Hi Dave

Yep.  It sure is confusing!

To the best of my ability...

- The trip you described is 3 stops (4-5, 5-6, 6-7), so start and end stations are excluded.

- I honestly don't know why there is a distinction between trips made from the stations at the end of the line, and intermediate stations.  I can only presume that this is a way of leveraging higher fares from people commuting into Manila from the suburbs?

Hope that helps in some way!

Cheers

Neil

[Neil Taylor]

Hi Brian

That sounds fine.  I just wanted to provide some specific examples, and the most challenging ones to model using GTFS in its current guise are the distance-based fares for Jeepneys and buses, which are all based around a fixed fare for an initial distance, then a fare per unit of additional distance:

Jeepney (Public Utility Jeepney or PUJ)

• Distance-based fare system.
• P8.5 for initial 4 km of journey distance
• P1 for every following 1.5km of journey distance
• No interchange allowed, so when alighting from Jeepney you start a new trip

 Bus (non-aircon)

• Distance-based fare system.
• P9 for initial 5 km of journey distance
• P1.85 for every following 1km of journey distance
• No interchange allowed, so when alighting from bus you start a new trip

Bus (aircon)

• Distance-based fare system.
• P11 for initial 5 km of journey distance
• P2.20 for every following 1km of journey distance
• No interchange allowed, so when alighting from bus you start a new trip 

Cheers

Neil