Fault code 41704

[RexBuck1]

2011 BMW 800GS

On a recent ride, bike started showing lower voltages (sub 13.5v) while riding - it should be over 14.  This is reminiscent of a failing stator which was replaced about 5000 km ago - so I'm thinking that isn't a problem

Yesterday, started the bike, idled for a couple of minutes showing good voltage (over 14) then, bang, it stops and completely goes dead

After a few minutes, able to power on but now EWS error showing - that is the code for problems with the immobilizer

Do a scan with GS911 and Immobilizer fault shows along with:

41704 KL30 (Battery positive) under voltage

The fault is currently present.

It is showing a value of 0.5 volt

Replace the immobilizer antenna and that fault goes away and bike will now start

However, fault code 41704 still present

Battery shows ok voltage at 13.4

However, maybe it is the problem.  I have another battery so swap it out and the 41704 still present

So, what does 41704 mean?  Where is it measured?  It is showing 0.5 volts however, bike starts fine and battery voltage measures fine.

Any ideas?

Here is the last report:

 AutoScan Report

GS-911 version: 1404.6 Datapack version: 1.8 Serial Number: GS70086402 
Date: 02/07/2014 Time: 9:23:48 AM

---

Motorcycle Information

VIN: WB1021902BZT93028

Mileage: 79414.0 km

Cluster date: 01 January 2100

Next service date: 11 November 2014

Next service distance: 82906 km

Factory I-Level: K024-10-08-500

Actual I-Level: K024-12-08-510

BMS-KP2 BMS type: BMS-KP2 Part No.: 8522506 Hardware Index: C6 Coding Index: 2 Manufacturing Date (YY/MM/DD): 2010-11-23 MCV: 0.6.0 FSV: 0.77.37 OSV: 2.3.1 Manufacturer: Bosch HWOE No.: 103084368 Program status: 370I Date release: GG14 Odometer reading: 79414.0 km Factory I-Level: K024-10-08-500 Actual I-Level: K024-12-08-510 VIN model year: 2011 3 fault codes found: 10500 Idle actuator / Idle actuator (Cylinder 1, for R-series) The fault is not present now. 10109 Battery voltage The fault is not present now. 10491 Electronic Immobiliser malfunction The fault is not present now.

ZFE-Basic ZFE type: ZFE-Basic Factory I-Level: K024-10-08-500 Actual I-Level: K024-12-08-510 Part No.: 8521875 Hardware Index: C8 Coding Index: 10 Manufacturing Date (YY/MM/DD): 2004-03-01 MCV: 0.6.0 FSV: 2.7.0 OSV: 3.3.0 Manufacturer: Loewe Lear HWOE No.: 103072408 Configuration    Speed sensor manufacturer is Bosch    Speed sensor type is DF11i    ABS fitted    Heated grips    Outside temperature sensor    Storage of temperature indication when engine hot    Lever type fuel sensor    Manual low beam off switch 3 fault codes found: 41707 Hand Brake Switch The fault is not present now. 41710 Foot Brake Switch The fault is not present now. 41704 KL30 (Battery positive) under voltage The fault is currently present.

CAN-Kombi-K7 Cluster type: CAN-Kombi-K7 Part No.: 7729485 Hardware Index: C3 Coding Index: 1 Manufacturer: Preh Manufacturing Date (YY/MM/DD): 2010-12-09 MCV: 0.6.0 FSV: 2.3.0 OSV: 3.3.30 HWOE No.: 26938536 Assembly No.: 7729486 Factory I-Level: K024-10-08-500 Actual I-Level: K024-12-08-510 No fault codes found

ABS8M Part No.: 7711210 HW Version No.: 1 Coding Index: 0 Manufacturing Date: 2007-01-15 HWOE No.: 26855504 Manufacturer: Bosch MCV: 0.5.9 FSV: 3.1.0 OSV: 3.4.32 Variant: K72 800 cc/K75 without modes No fault codes found

   

[Mole C]

the immobilizer on my RT1200 has an internal battery (button cell CR something) there are user guides for changing and warning to make sure you turn off the alarm before changing the battery(s) out

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "GS-911 Field Diagnostic Tool for BMW motorcycles" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to gs-911+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to gs-...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/gs-911.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Maurice

[Dave McDougall]

If it’s still under warranty (or even if it isn’t still under warranty…it must be very close to still being under warranty), I recommend you take it to a dealer.

 

Good luck.

 

Dave McDougall

2011 R1200GS

--

[RexBuck1]

I don't have an alarm on this bike.  The immobilizer is automatically deactivated when you put the key in the ignition.  The Ring Antenna (around the ignition) reads a circuit within the key (the key is sealed and does not have a battery in it) and if ok, deactivates the immobilizer.  This ring antenna showed up both as a fault on the AutoScan and on the dashboard computer with the EWS error.  I replaced the ring antenna and the bike now starts fine.

Having said all that, this whole idea of a separate button cell or something similar does make a certain amount of sense.  Why else would the fault result show as 0.5v when the bike battery is reading 13.5v or so.

If there is a second battery and someone can point me to the location, that would be great.  Reviewing the service manual and there is no mention of a second battery and if so, wouldn't be a surprise.  Sometimes the service manual is great with lots of detail, and other times (particularly electrical stuff) they seem to purposely leave things out.

[RexBuck1]

Yup, that is the last resort.  Just came off of warranty 3 months ago.  

I travel a lot and have to be pretty self reliant as many times there isn't a Moto dealer within a few days travel.  I like to be able to get myself going again without having to find some local to haul me to the dealer.  So, when things like this come up, I like to figure out how to solve them in case they rear their ugly little heads again.

[james anthony]

Clear fault codes then see if it reappears 

[Haakon]

I do not know for sure if its easy to do on your bike:

Earlier bikes often had problems with the key, “antenna” or both.

Some owners then removed (bypassed) that safety system completely as the immobilizer got them stranded.

[karl.hu...@verizon.net]

There are several pins on the ZFE that are connected directly to the battery.  One of those pins may be bent or loose, or the wire may be frayed, giving you the fault code.

[RexBuck1]

I hate it when someone points out the obvious . . . .   

Thank you Jim

[Dave Penfield]

Still low voltage?  What does it do under a load?    

I'm on my third stator. 

Bad coils at around the 5 o'clock position w both previous staters.  

Latest stator is from Ricks Motorsport Electric. They wound the new one with heavier wire for a few bucks more. Worth it. 

I also wrapped my exhaust from front to back. 

My theory is there is too much heat from the exhaust transferring to the stator in summer months especially off road when speeds are lower and less air movement to cool things off. 

Just my thoughts

Sent from my iPad

--

[Eddie Whitehead]

Had a similar problem on a Honda Blackbird. Rewound stator works just fine but tends to burn 1 winding if the plugs connections are not 100% making contact.

Unless you change the plugs or are happy that the tension on the contact / terminal. It would be that the bike is charging 13.5V but the voltage in 1 winding is on 0.5v(maybe short to earth) and that is the error being picked up.

 

After changing the terminals / plug, bike has never been back.

 

Good luck.

 

From: gs-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:gs-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Penfield
Sent: 04 July 2014 06:02 AM
To: gs-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [GS-911] Fault code 41704

 

Still low voltage?  What does it do under a load?    

[RexBuck1]

No, no . . . Jim fixed it.   Just had to clear the fault and the fault hasn't come back,

[WarthogARJ]

Hi,

There is indeed a small lithium battery on your bike for the optional immobilizer.

You can see it if you look on one of the BMW motorbike fiche sites.

I use Max Motorbike's:

Input the last digits of your VIN.

http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/DiagramsMain.aspx?vid=55254&vin=ZT93028

Look at grouping 65- GPS, immobilizer etc.

You can see it takes a CR-123A

Alan

[WarthogARJ]

Why not strip out your alarm/immobilizer and add a side car?

With a dog.

Then you have both a travel companion as WELL as a built-in organic alarm system!

Hot dang!

On Wednesday, 2 July 2014 20:28:14 UTC+1, RexBuck1 wrote:

[Marco S Hyman]

On Jul 4, 2014, at 1:26 PM, WarthogARJ <arjarvis...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Why not strip out your alarm/immobilizer and add a side car?
> With a dog.

On the 1200 series of bikes the alarm and the immobilizer are two
different things. It looks like it is that way on the 800 bikes,
too.

The immobilizer is an antenna and functions built into the engine
management controller (until the '13 bikes, anyway). There is no
battery that is part of the immobilizer. It is NOT an optional
item. It can not be removed.

The alarm is a module that can be combined with the tire pressure
monitor. It is not called the immobilizer, it is called the DWA.
It uses a CR123A battery. See

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=0229&mospid=55255&btnr=65_2536&hg=65&fg=75

Getting back to the original question...

The battery in the DWA will not cause low system voltage faults.
If the DWA battery is low you'll get a DWA warning when you turn
on the ignition. Verify that in your riders manual... I know it
works that way on the R1200, not sure about the F800.

> After a few minutes, able to power on but now EWS error showing - that is the code for problems with the immobilizer

EWS can also be triggered if there isn't enough system voltage
to run engine management as it is the engine management controller
that sends a pulse to the key and reads the result.

> Do a scan with GS911 and Immobilizer fault shows along with:
> 41704 KL30 (Battery positive) under voltage
> The fault is currently present.
> It is showing a value of 0.5 volt

Check all connections. If they are tight and there is no corrosion
get the battery load tested. If the battery tests good I'd start
looking for wiring issues.

Good luck.

Marc

[Haakon]

Marc, are you sure it is impossible to "bypass"- remove the- immobilizer on
the 1200 series?
I do not question what you say, just asking :-)
If it works like a RFID I fully agree, accept it is almost impossible.
On the older bikes there was ways as it worked as a multi contact safety
device.
I believe what you say is that new bikes use a constant digital signal to
tell the right key is used?
One more reason to NOT buy a new BMW :-(
Bypassed safety features, running or not, bikes are stolen - to be sold as
parts.
A hidden GPS tracker (and SMS alarm) would be much more of a help!!

The reason I cannot let go of this is the fact people have been stranded
when the antenna unit or key stopped working.
Many years ago I had to walk for almost a day in -4 F. No phone coverage in
that area.
The reason was a faulty - corroded- injector connection. This happened
before the GS911 was for sale.
Never mind, I do NOT want to use a bike that stop because of a faulty
"antenna"!

From: gs-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:gs-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
Marco S Hyman
Sent: 4. juli 2014 23:01
To: gs-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [GS-911] Fault code 41704

[Marco S Hyman]

On Jul 4, 2014, at 2:39 PM, Haakon <b...@bmw-f650.com> wrote:

> Marc, are you sure it is impossible to "bypass"- remove the- immobilizer on the 1200 series?

Yes. That's why in 2007 when the ring antennas started failing
many people had no choice but to have their bike towed to a dealer.

It's not a part that can be removed, it's code in the BMS-K for
the earlier bikes, the '13 and later bikes apparently have their
own controller for the EWS functions. You can't remove the code.
You can't bypass the code. The BMS-K sends a pulse through the
antenna to energize the chip in the key and reads the resulting
code. Wrong code and EWS --- Engine Wont Start.

A low battery voltage can cause a mis read. So can having multiple
keys within range of the antenna.

The EWS function was only used to allow the bike to start. Once running
the bike will keep running. I don't know if this is still true of the
liquid cooled bikes.

[Karl]

I believe the coded keys and ring antennas are the result of an EU directive to limit thefts.  It's too bad BMW doesn't take a hint from Ducati.  Ducati's have the same immobilizer functions, but their electronics allow the rider to enter a PIN to bypass the chip in the key if there is a problem with the key or the ring antenna.

[RexBuck1]

Far as I can tell, that is for the alarm system (DWA) . . . assume TPM is Tire Pressure Monitoring.   I have neither.

[RexBuck1]

Same on the 800 - alarm and immobilizer different cats.

Like I said before, I do not have an alarm or TPM