Idle Actuator/Stepper motor tests

[Martin Gray]

I know the set of Engine Function tests now includes Idle Actuator tests, but is there a more scientific method judging success ro fail other than feeling or hearing a “slight vibration” ? My left and right actuators do make noise but they are very different noises. Can anyone describe the noise of an actuator that i snot functioning properly and one that is ?

I am asking because I am still experiencing what feels like spitting back through the right had throttle after feathering the throttle in second gear around 2k RPM ( i.e. working through heavy traffic) the opening it up. Sometimes it falters, spits then picks up, occasionally it just dies – which is more awkward.

Coils and plugs replaced, still does it, was doing it before the last service at 72,000 miles ( and the 66,000 before that ) ; still doing it after another 6,000 miles. One lambda sensor replaced when the GS-911 picked up and open circuit, the 02 real-time curves are similar in profile.

Bike is a 2008 R1200 GSA. I am guessing at an air leak, or an imbalance somewhere; although I guess it could be the valve clearances out, even after being serviced 3 times. “Within tolerance” is not always the same as being accurately set.

[West Ian]

Martin,

I've recently replaced both stepper motors to resolve an intermittent cut out, when slowing down on my 2006 R1200RT. (after swapping out the O2 sensors, plugs, adding an 'accelerator', cleaning the tank, and countless check/recheck valves and balance)

Prior to doing so I'd run the stepper test and reset functions a few times. Each time I could both hear the motor whirring, and feel the movement if I lightly touched the throttle body during the test.

After swapping them out, I again ran the test, and didn't hear the motors initially.

They are working, but much smoother and with much less noise.

Doesn't help you greatly, but I thought they were only active at idle in controlling the air allowed past the throttle valve (If I'm wrong please correct me).

I found the forum BMWST

http://bmwsporttouring.com

very helpful and knowledgable in sorting my issue, maybe a post on there may help.

Cheers

Ian

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[Ken Harbeck]

Depends upon how you define “active.”  Above idle the steppers do move, but in tandem, i.e. each at the same step count.  Only at idle with there be a step count difference, on open more/less than the other.  You can see this with your GS911 real time monitoring.   Ken H. --- On Wed, 1/25/12, West Ian <ianj...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

[West Ian]

Ken,

I believe the steppers can sometimes 'lose' count as there is no means of them reporting

back to the ECU where they actually are. This apparently can, (at least in my case seemed to) over a longish run, cause idle problems, but should be reset by the system each time the engine is started. Never noticed a difference in the step count, but personally I've only checked the motors at idle.
Ian

[Martin Gray]

Thanks Ken, Ian,
The issues I am having occur around the 2000RPM area, idle is OK. I believe the steppers play a role up to the 4000RPM mark. What I am hoping for is a means of verifying that they work correctly. GS911 can read the data and controls being sent to them, but is there a more accurate way to check the steppers have moved by the amount the instructions said? The noise and vibration only really confirms that it tried to move. I could go buy new ones to see if the problem clears, but that is not the most cost-effective test method.
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[Don Eilenberger]

Ian,

If you let the startup sequence complete - the steppers recalibrate every
time the bike starts up. They do the same homing dance/set to zero that
the GS-911 causes them to do for sync'ing the steppers.

Take a close listen to one sometime, or even just put a finger on it and
turn on the key.

While the steppers aren't a closed loop device (which would require
encoding wheels and pulse counting software) - they also aren't too likely
to drop many steps between startup cycles.

Don Eilenberger

At 05:52 PM 1/25/2012, you wrote:
>Ken,
>I believe the steppers can sometimes 'lose' count as there is no means of
>them reporting
>back to the ECU where they actually are. This apparently can, (at least in
>my case seemed to) over a longish run, cause idle problems, but should be
>reset by the system each time the engine is started. Never noticed a
>difference in the step count, but personally I've only checked the motors
>at idle.
>Ian
>On 25 January 2012 20:04, Ken Harbeck

><<mailto:khar...@yahoo.com>khar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Depends upon how you define “active.” Above idle the steppers do move,
>but in tandem, i.e. each at the same step count. Only at idle with there
>be a step count difference, on open more/less than the other. You can see
>this with your GS911 real time monitoring.
>
>
>
>Ken H.
>
>
>--- On Wed, 1/25/12, West Ian

><<mailto:ianj...@ntlworld.com>ianj...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>
>From: West Ian <<mailto:ianj...@ntlworld.com>ianj...@ntlworld.com>
>Subject: Re: [GS-911] Idle Actuator/Stepper motor tests
>To: <mailto:gs-...@googlegroups.com>gs-...@googlegroups.com
>Received: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 9:52 AM
>
>
>Martin,
>I've recently replaced both stepper motors to resolve an intermittent cut
>out, when slowing down on my 2006 R1200RT. (after swapping out the O2
>sensors, plugs, adding an 'accelerator', cleaning the tank, and countless
>check/recheck valves and balance)
>Prior to doing so I'd run the stepper test and reset functions a few
>times. Each time I could both hear the motor whirring, and feel the
>movement if I lightly touched the throttle body during the test.
>After swapping them out, I again ran the test, and didn't hear the motors
>initially.
>They are working, but much smoother and with much less noise.
>Doesn't help you greatly, but I thought they were only active at idle in
>controlling the air allowed past the throttle valve (If I'm wrong please
>correct me).
>I found the forum BMWST

><http://bmwsporttouring.com/>http://bmwsporttouring.com

>very helpful and knowledgable in sorting my issue, maybe a post on there
>may help.
>Cheers
>Ian
>On 24 January 2012 19:57, Martin Gray

><<http://ca.mc1645.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=zo...@ntlworld.com>zo...@ntlworld.com>

>wrote:
>I know the set of Engine Function tests now includes Idle Actuator tests,
>but is there a more scientific method judging success ro fail other than
>feeling or hearing a “slight vibration” ? My left and right actuators do
>make noise but they are very different noises. Can anyone describe the
>noise of an actuator that i snot functioning properly and one that is ?
>I am asking because I am still experiencing what feels like spitting back
>through the right had throttle after feathering the throttle in second
>gear around 2k RPM ( i.e. working through heavy traffic) the opening it
>up. Sometimes it falters, spits then picks up, occasionally it just dies –
>which is more awkward.
>Coils and plugs replaced, still does it, was doing it before the last
>service at 72,000 miles ( and the 66,000 before that ) ; still doing it
>after another 6,000 miles. One lambda sensor replaced when the GS-911
>picked up and open circuit, the 02 real-time curves are similar in profile.
>Bike is a 2008 R1200 GSA. I am guessing at an air leak, or an imbalance
>somewhere; although I guess it could be the valve clearances out, even
>after being serviced 3 times. “Within tolerance” is not always the same as
>being accurately set.
>--
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>To post to this group, send email to

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>
>
>--
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>
>--
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>To post to this group, send email to

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[Stephan Thiel]

hi Martin,

when the bike is at operating temperature, shut it down, then unplug the idle actuators, and then ride/test... if you still find the issue, then your idle actuators are most likely not to blame...

..the joys of testing by elimination...

best,
Stephan

On 1/26/12 2:43 PM, Martin Gray wrote:

Thanks Ken, Ian,
The issues I am having occur around the 2000RPM area, idle is OK. I believe the steppers play a role up to the 4000RPM mark. What I am hoping for is a means of verifying that they work correctly. GS911 can read the data and controls being sent to them, but is there a more accurate way to check the steppers have moved by the amount the instructions said? The noise and vibration only really confirms that it tried to move. I could go buy new ones to see if the problem clears, but that is not the most cost-effective test method.
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

West Ian <ianj...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Ken,

I believe the steppers can sometimes 'lose' count as there is no means of them reporting

back to the ECU where they actually are. This apparently can, (at least in my case seemed to) over a longish run, cause idle problems, but should be reset by the system each time the engine is started. Never noticed a difference in the step count, but personally I've�only checked the motors at idle.
Ian

On 25 January 2012 20:04, Ken Harbeck <khar...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Depends upon how you define �active.�� Above idle the steppers do move, but in tandem, i.e. each at the same step count.� Only at idle with there be a step count difference, on open more/less than the other.� You can see this with your GS911 real time monitoring. �

Ken H. --- On Wed, 1/25/12, West Ian <ianj...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

From: West Ian <ianj...@ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: [GS-911] Idle Actuator/Stepper motor tests To: gs-...@googlegroups.com Received: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 9:52 AM

Martin, I've recently replaced both stepper motors to resolve an intermittent cut out, when slowing down on my 2006 R1200RT. (after swapping out the O2 sensors, plugs, adding an 'accelerator', cleaning the tank, and countless check/recheck valves and balance) Prior to doing so I'd run the stepper test and reset functions a few times. Each time I could both hear the motor whirring, and feel the movement if I lightly touched the throttle body during the test. After swapping them out, I again ran the test, and didn't hear the motors initially. They are working, but much smoother and with much less noise. Doesn't help you greatly, but I thought they were only active at idle in controlling the air allowed past the throttle valve (If I'm wrong please correct me). I found the forum BMWST http://bmwsporttouring.com very helpful and knowledgable in sorting my issue, maybe a post on there may help. Cheers Ian

On 24 January 2012 19:57, Martin Gray <zo...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

I know the set of Engine Function tests now includes Idle Actuator tests, but is there a more scientific method judging success ro fail other than feeling or hearing a �slight vibration� ? My left and right actuators do make noise but they are very different noises. Can anyone describe the noise of an actuator that i snot functioning properly and one that is ? I am asking because I am still experiencing what feels like spitting back through the right had throttle after feathering the throttle in second gear around 2k RPM ( i.e. working through heavy traffic) the opening it up. Sometimes it falters, spits then picks up, occasionally it just dies � which is more awkward.

Coils and plugs replaced, still does it, was doing it before the last service at 72,000 miles ( and the 66,000 before that ) ; still doing it after another 6,000 miles. One lambda sensor replaced when the GS-911 picked up and open circuit, the 02 real-time curves are similar in profile.

Bike is a 2008 R1200 GSA. I am guessing at an air leak, or an imbalance somewhere; although I guess it could be the valve clearances out, even after being serviced 3 times. �Within tolerance� is not always the same as being accurately set.

-- 
========================
Stephan Thiel
www.hexcode.co.za
+27 21 880 1433 (tel)
+27 86 614 1109 (fax)
========================
 
NB: This email and its contents are subject to the HEX EMAIL LEGAL NOTICE which can be viewed at http://www.hex.co.za/email_legalnotice

[Martin Gray]

Ah, a cunning plan!
That is a far more cost-efficient method than trying new ones :-)
Thanks Stephan
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse weird autocompletions.

Stephan Thiel <ste...@hex.co.za> wrote:

hi Martin,

when the bike is at operating temperature, shut it down, then unplug the idle actuators, and then ride/test... if you still find the issue, then your idle actuators are most likely not to blame...

..the joys of testing by elimination...

best,
Stephan

On 1/26/12 2:43 PM, Martin Gray wrote:

Thanks Ken, Ian,
The issues I am having occur around the 2000RPM area, idle is OK. I believe the steppers play a role up to the 4000RPM mark. What I am hoping for is a means of verifying that they work correctly. GS911 can read the data and controls being sent to them, but is there a more accurate way to check the steppers have moved by the amount the instructions said? The noise and vibration only really confirms that it tried to move. I could go buy new ones to see if the problem clears, but that is not the most cost-effective test method.
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

West Ian <ianj...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Ken,

I believe the steppers can sometimes 'lose' count as there is no means of them reporting

back to the ECU where they actually are. This apparently can, (at least in my case seemed to) over a longish run, cause idle problems, but should be reset by the system each time the engine is started. Never noticed a difference in the step count, but personally I've only checked the motors at idle.
Ian

On 25 January 2012 20:04, Ken Harbeck <khar...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Depends upon how you define “active.”  Above idle the steppers do move, but in tandem, i.e. each at the same step count.  Only at idle with there be a step count difference, on open more/less than the other.  You can see this with your GS911 real time monitoring.

Ken H. --- On Wed, 1/25/12, West Ian <ianj...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

From: West Ian <ianj...@ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: [GS-911] Idle Actuator/Stepper motor tests To: gs-...@googlegroups.com Received: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 9:52 AM

Martin, I've recently replaced both stepper motors to resolve an intermittent cut out, when slowing down on my 2006 R1200RT. (after swapping out the O2 sensors, plugs, adding an 'accelerator', cleaning the tank, and countless check/recheck valves and balance) Prior to doing so I'd run the stepper test and reset functions a few times. Each time I could both hear the motor whirring, and feel the movement if I lightly touched the throttle body during the test. After swapping them out, I again ran the test, and didn't hear the motors initially. They are working, but much smoother and with much less noise. Doesn't help you greatly, but I thought they were only active at idle in controlling the air allowed past the throttle valve (If I'm wrong please correct me). I found the forum BMWST http://bmwsporttouring.com very helpful and knowledgable in sorting my issue, maybe a post on there may help. Cheers Ian

On 24 January 2012 19:57, Martin Gray <zo...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

I know the set of Engine Function tests now includes Idle Actuator tests, but is there a more scientific method judging success ro fail other than feeling or hearing a “slight vibration” ? My left and right actuators do make noise but they are very different noises. Can anyone describe the noise of an actuator that i snot functioning properly and one that is ? I am asking because I am still experiencing what feels like spitting back through the right had throttle after feathering the throttle in second gear around 2k RPM ( i.e. working through heavy traffic) the opening it up. Sometimes it falters, spits then picks up, occasionally it just dies – which is more awkward.

Coils and plugs replaced, still does it, was doing it before the last service at 72,000 miles ( and the 66,000 before that ) ; still doing it after another 6,000 miles. One lambda sensor replaced when the GS-911 picked up and open circuit, the 02 real-time curves are similar in profile.

Bike is a 2008 R1200 GSA. I am guessing at an air leak, or an imbalance somewhere; although I guess it could be the valve clearances out, even after being serviced 3 times. “Within tolerance” is not always the same as being accurately set.

[Andy Cole]

Had the same symptoms, turned out the throttle cable was pinched under the tank...

Andy Cole

07815 139045

Apologies if brief, sent from my iPhone.

On 2 Feb 2012, at 08:21, Stephan Thiel <ste...@hex.co.za> wrote:

hi Martin,

when the bike is at operating temperature, shut it down, then unplug the idle actuators, and then ride/test... if you still find the issue, then your idle actuators are most likely not to blame...

..the joys of testing by elimination...

best,
Stephan

On 1/26/12 2:43 PM, Martin Gray wrote:

Thanks Ken, Ian,
The issues I am having occur around the 2000RPM area, idle is OK. I believe the steppers play a role up to the 4000RPM mark. What I am hoping for is a means of verifying that they work correctly. GS911 can read the data and controls being sent to them, but is there a more accurate way to check the steppers have moved by the amount the instructions said? The noise and vibration only really confirms that it tried to move. I could go buy new ones to see if the problem clears, but that is not the most cost-effective test method.
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

West Ian <ianj...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Ken,

I believe the steppers can sometimes 'lose' count as there is no means of them reporting

back to the ECU where they actually are. This apparently can, (at least in my case seemed to) over a longish run, cause idle problems, but should be reset by the system each time the engine is started. Never noticed a difference in the step count, but personally I've only checked the motors at idle.
Ian

On 25 January 2012 20:04, Ken Harbeck <khar...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Depends upon how you define “active.”  Above idle the steppers do move, but in tandem, i.e. each at the same step count.  Only at idle with there be a step count difference, on open more/less than the other.  You can see this with your GS911 real time monitoring.

Ken H. --- On Wed, 1/25/12, West Ian <ianj...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

From: West Ian <ianj...@ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: [GS-911] Idle Actuator/Stepper motor tests To: gs-...@googlegroups.com Received: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 9:52 AM

Martin, I've recently replaced both stepper motors to resolve an intermittent cut out, when slowing down on my 2006 R1200RT. (after swapping out the O2 sensors, plugs, adding an 'accelerator', cleaning the tank, and countless check/recheck valves and balance) Prior to doing so I'd run the stepper test and reset functions a few times. Each time I could both hear the motor whirring, and feel the movement if I lightly touched the throttle body during the test. After swapping them out, I again ran the test, and didn't hear the motors initially. They are working, but much smoother and with much less noise. Doesn't help you greatly, but I thought they were only active at idle in controlling the air allowed past the throttle valve (If I'm wrong please correct me). I found the forum BMWST http://bmwsporttouring.com very helpful and knowledgable in sorting my issue, maybe a post on there may help. Cheers Ian

On 24 January 2012 19:57, Martin Gray <zo...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

I know the set of Engine Function tests now includes Idle Actuator tests, but is there a more scientific method judging success ro fail other than feeling or hearing a “slight vibration” ? My left and right actuators do make noise but they are very different noises. Can anyone describe the noise of an actuator that i snot functioning properly and one that is ? I am asking because I am still experiencing what feels like spitting back through the right had throttle after feathering the throttle in second gear around 2k RPM ( i.e. working through heavy traffic) the opening it up. Sometimes it falters, spits then picks up, occasionally it just dies – which is more awkward.

Coils and plugs replaced, still does it, was doing it before the last service at 72,000 miles ( and the 66,000 before that ) ; still doing it after another 6,000 miles. One lambda sensor replaced when the GS-911 picked up and open circuit, the 02 real-time curves are similar in profile.

Bike is a 2008 R1200 GSA. I am guessing at an air leak, or an imbalance somewhere; although I guess it could be the valve clearances out, even after being serviced 3 times. “Within tolerance” is not always the same as being accurately set.