F800GS Fuel Pump Controller Fuse

[DaleB]

Bike 2009 F800GS

I got my GS911 up and running on my laptop and smart phone, very cool. I was looking through the various ECU listings and in the BMS-K section I found the following;

10443: Fuse activated for electric Fuel-pump

 The fault is not present now

I cleared the fault and it has stayed cleared so far.

This reminded me of a strange problem I had last fall. I had gone for a ride and stopped at a coffee shop for an hour or so and when I went to leave the bike wouldn't start. When I turned on the ignition I got the normal light show and needle dance on the instrument panel. I hit the starter and the bike cranked fine at the normal speed but wouldn't start. There were no errors indicated on the instruments. I tried a couple times, turning the ignition on and off in between tries but then gave up because I didn't want to wear down the battery. This was the first and only time the F800 has failed to start immediately.

I then arranged for a ride home to get my trailer. Just before I was going to leave (maybe 15 minutes), I tried to start it one more time and it fired right up.

If the fuel pump fuse had opened that would explain the problem I had. No fuel pressure, no start. But, wouldn't that fault cause an error on the instrument panel?

I know that BMW says that they use electronic fuses, or some such term, on the CAN bus bikes. I've used similar, or maybe the same devices in some of my designs at work. We call them PPTC devices (Polymeric Positive Temperature Coefficient). The way these work is that if the current through them exceeds a specified value, enough heat is generated in the device to cause it's resistance to go to a very high value and thus reduce the current They will stay in that state until the current falls below the hold current or the power is removed. They will reset within a few seconds of removal of power. There is a good description at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resettable_fuse. If this is what BMW uses it would explain what I experienced. The question is why did the fuse activate?

In looking around the web I found a couple of places where people have created a wire harness that will bypass the fuel pump controller if the controller dies and you don't have a spare. (Like everyone carries spare fuel pump controller.) The sites I looked at were mostly about the R1200GS but the pictures  showed a fuel pump controller that looked like the one in my F800GS. When I looked at the parts fiche on REAL OEM, I found that the CAN Bus R1200 uses a different controller than the F800GS. The two part numbers only differ by one digit but they are different.

I'm very suspicious of intermittent electronic problems. If the controller went south once it's likely to do it again. So, is there some sort of a chronic problem with these fuel pump controllers or was I just unlucky? 

[Jim5941]

I believe both the original part number for the fuel pump and the pump
controller have been superceeded with newer designs.


On Apr 18, 10:42 pm, DaleB <dalebo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bike 2009 F800GS
>
> ....

[Stephan Thiel]

see inline

On 4/19/11 4:42 AM, DaleB wrote:
> Bike 2009 F800GS
>
> I got my GS911 up and running on my laptop and smart phone, very cool.
> I was looking through the various ECU listings and in the BMS-K
> section I found the following;
>
> 10443: Fuse activated for electric Fuel-pump
> The fault is not present now
>
> I cleared the fault and it has stayed cleared so far.
>
> This reminded me of a strange problem I had last fall. I had gone for
> a ride and stopped at a coffee shop for an hour or so and when I went
> to leave the bike wouldn't start. When I turned on the ignition I got
> the normal light show and needle dance on the instrument panel. I hit
> the starter and the bike cranked fine at the normal speed but wouldn't
> start. There were no errors indicated on the instruments. I tried a
> couple times, turning the ignition on and off in between tries but
> then gave up because I didn't want to wear down the battery. This was
> the first and only time the F800 has failed to start immediately.
>
> I then arranged for a ride home to get my trailer. Just before I was
> going to leave (maybe 15 minutes), I tried to start it one more time
> and it fired right up.
>
> If the fuel pump fuse had opened that would explain the problem I had.
> No fuel pressure, no start. But, wouldn't that fault cause an error on
> the instrument panel?

Nope... neither do ANY of the other "fuse activations" ...which is a bit
of an oversight in my opinion... but makes for a real cool demo when I
short out the coil on my 1200gs at a rally and ask experienced mechanics
to find the problem without a GS-911 ;-)

>
> I know that BMW says that they use electronic fuses, or some such
> term, on the CAN bus bikes. I've used similar, or maybe the same
> devices in some of my designs at work. We call them PPTC devices
> (Polymeric Positive Temperature Coefficient). The way these work is
> that if the current through them exceeds a specified value, enough
> heat is generated in the device to cause it's resistance to go to a
> very high value and thus reduce the current They will stay in that
> state until the current falls below the hold current or the power is
> removed. They will reset within a few seconds of removal of power.
> There is a good description at
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resettable_fuse. If this is what BMW uses
> it would explain what I experienced. The question is why did the fuse
> activate?

not necessarily a PPTC... most methods simply measure the value and
switch off the driving FET etc.. (either analog or digital, depending on
the implementation...

>
> In looking around the web I found a couple of places where people have
> created a wire harness that will bypass the fuel pump controller if
> the controller dies and you don't have a spare. (Like everyone carries
> spare fuel pump controller.) The sites I looked at were mostly about
> the R1200GS but the pictures showed a fuel pump controller that
> looked like the one in my F800GS. When I looked at the parts fiche on
> REAL OEM, I found that the CAN Bus R1200 uses a different controller
> than the F800GS. The two part numbers only differ by one digit but
> they are different.

there have been a number of versions of the pump control electronics...
(in an attempt to make it more reliable)

>
> I'm very suspicious of intermittent electronic problems. If the
> controller went south once it's likely to do it again. So, is there
> some sort of a chronic problem with these fuel pump controllers or was
> I just unlucky?

this is a single point of failure.... I ride with a spare one in my tool kit

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--
========================
Stephan Thiel
www.hexcode.co.za
+27 21 880 1433 (tel)
0 86 614 1109 (fax)
========================

NB: This email and its contents are subject to the HEX EMAIL LEGAL NOTICE which can be viewed at http://www.hex.co.za/email_legalnotice

[DaleB]

Thanks Stephan. I guess I need to buy a spare fuel pump controller and a spare key antenna.

Dale B

[Stephan Thiel]

those were the only 2 spare parts we took along on our trip last year
http://hexcode.co.za/2010

best,
Stephan

[spsg]

Hi, Dale B / Stephan,

If your F800 is a 09 build? It should have the factory's latest
components, they are so reliable that BMW require a report in the event
of a warranty failure (they reject claims if not satisfied)! The
antenna ring, there was unfortunately an unreliable batch fitted between
07 & late 08, all affected were recalled! We have had no failures at all
of the new antenna, partial part number of which should be visible in
front of and below the ignition switch, if it ends in 247 no need to
worry!

Fuel pump controllers were only recalled on GS models as they are
exposed, yours is under the seat. Corrosion and water ingress was the
problem (mostly); the latest component is enamelled black, same shape &
size as its uncoated aluminium predecessor. If it's silver change it,
if not let me know.

Regards

Mike

P.S This is not advice from BMW! But I would like to think it is valid.

[Wayne Brissette]

While reading the issue of Rider Magazine that came in the mail the other day, I noticed the GS-911 has a nice little product writeup in it. Not so much a review, but what the GS-911 can do for you.

Wayne

[DaleB]

MikeG

My comments in blue.

On Thursday, May 5, 2011 4:48:16 PM UTC-5, MikeG wrote:

Hi, Dale B / Stephan,

If your F800 is a 09 build?

The label on the frame says that it's a 03/09 build

 

It should have the factory's latest

components,....snip snip

The part number on the cast into the controller is 7720774 which I assume translates into 16147720774. This part number seems to have been superseded by 16147720778.

 

The
antenna ring, there was unfortunately an unreliable batch fitted between
07 & late 08, all affected were recalled! We have had no failures at all
of the new antenna, partial part number of which should be visible in
front of and below the ignition switch, if it ends in 247 no need to
worry!

I have not yet removed the ring antenna to check the part number. It looks like it would be a fair amount of work to get at the antenna. I will do later. I'm still going to buy a spare antenna, just in case. I ride a lot in sparsely populated areas and the l need it to be stranded. 

Fuel pump controllers were only recalled on GS models as they are
exposed, yours is under the seat.  Corrosion and water ingress was the
problem (mostly); the latest component is enamelled black, same shape &
size as its uncoated aluminium predecessor.  If it's silver change it,
if not let me know.

My controller is uncoated aluminum with the older part number as indicated above. I think that I'll just replace it with a newer controller as a (expensive) precaution.

Mike, I really appreciate this information.

Regards

Mike

P.S This is not advice from BMW! But I would like to think it is valid.

I had a no-start incident two days ago that seemed identical to the previous one (i.e. good cranking but no start). I had just installed a booster plug and since then the starting has been a bit more difficult that before the change. It always started, it just seemed to need to crank about 0.5 sec longer before it started. On the final attempt, I moved the throttle a bit while it was cranking. There was a bang and the bike started. When I got home I checked for trouble codes and there were none. After I let the bike cool to ambient, I checked the BMS-K sensors and the AIT indicated -5 deg C and the engine temperature indicated 15 deg C. This what I would expect as the Booster Plug is supposed to make the AIT reading 20 deg C colder than ambient. I'm guessing that in colder temperatures the computer makes the mixture richer on start and because of the cold AIT reading the computer may have actually flooded the engine. This is just a guess. I'll just have to see how it goes.

DaleB 

 

[spsg]

Hi DaleB,

 

You don’t have to remove the ring the check the part number, look on the square bit in front of and below the top yoke (cover below it gives access to it’s connectors),  this is all the same component!  Yours should end in 247 the good one, never had a failure yet!  For the pump controller, the part number didn’t change still 744 but if you buy another enamelled one make sure you fit it perfectly or it will have no warranty, better still have it fitted by the dealer; only takes 5 mins.

--