tombo, moleque tombo lyrics

[lexy...@doyenne.com]

just revisiting the lyrics some of us were practicing on saturday:

ê tombo moleque ê tombo
tombo para derrubar
tiririca é faca de ponta
capoeiras vão te pegar
magia deitado o nego
que derrubou meu companheiro

c: abra a roda minha gente
c: que o batuque é diferente

r: abra a roda minha gente
r: que o batuque é diferente


roughly translated (any help appreciated :):

tumble[1], tumble punk[2]
tumble to overthrow
nutsedge is a knife-edge
capoeiras are gonna get you[3]
black magic lays
one down, my friend[4]

open the roda people
that batuque[5] is different


notes/speculations/questions:

[1] i think 'tombo' means something like to slip, fall and catch yourself
all at the same time. maybe how adma/tombo moves gives some idea. :}

[2] moleque has often been translated as "bum" or something like "boy from
the streets." i personally think that the word "punk" works ok for it...
in the sense of "hey! you punks come back here with my wallet!" it's got
some bratty and moxie connotations to it, also.

[3] the nutsedge is a tall grass. i wonder if these two lines might be a
reference to the "ambuscade" formative ritual where mestre bimnba would
send his senior students into a maze of tall grasses, where even more
senior capoeiristas were lying in wait to ambush them. (mestre acrodeon
writes about "ambuscade" in one of his books, but again, i am not sure if
this is what these lines are about.)

[4] i am really having a hard time translating these last two lines

[5] if i understand correctly, "batuque" is a kind of mostly extinct
kick-boxing/game/afro-brazilian martial art... maybe where the rasteira
came from? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batuque_%28game%29). the song is
pointing out that capoeira is something trickier than batuque. ("batuque"
is also a kind of drumming... i think it comes from the same root as the
verb "bater" meaning "to hit" or "to beat?")

[lexy...@doyenne.com]

On Tue, 28 Jan 2014, lexy...@doyenne.com wrote:

> magia deitado o nego

should have been:

magia deitado negro

[Will Caston]

I've also read that Mestre Bimba's father was a practitioner of batuque and that the takedowns he introduced upon developing Capoeira Regional were based on the batuque he had seen his father practicing.

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[Dawn Coler]

Ufa, Lex, u been working hard on this. Way to go. The grass ritual is gonna give me nightmares. :-/
CM PC can have a good laugh with his coffee at us gringas trying to decode the lyrics...

Fyi, i know that tiririca can mean bad-tempered or grumpy as well as the grass/reed. I think the grass is believed to be poisonous. If we adjusted the verbage a bit ---like:

Eu tombo o moleque...(i [am gonna] topple the guy)
OR
E tombou, o moleque...(and he fell)
(I guess that could also read "and he toppled the guy")

Para derrubar = to really knock him down/out

And then....
Magia deitado eu nego
Que derrubou meu...
(Hidden/lying magic , I deny/doubt it
That knocked out my friend.)

THEN it would sound like retalliation--watch out, we're gonna get you bcse we know you decked my friend. We might even use a poison grass blade. ;). Open this f-ing roda so that it might go differently this time.

Batuque is all over samba lyrics, meaning "beat" or drumming. But maybe they're threatening a rasteira along with the grass treatment, ay carumba. ("In a NICE way", right, CM?)
"Eu nego" is all over samba songs too --"I doubt it, I deny it".

Have fun with that, Pedro!

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[lexy...@doyenne.com]

On Wed, 29 Jan 2014, Dawn Coler wrote:

> Fyi, i know that tiririca can mean bad-tempered or grumpy as well as the grass/reed. I think the grass is believed to be poisonous. If we adjusted the verbage a bit ---like:

what dictionary are you using!? :} i am pretty damn this song means the
nutsedge definition.

> Eu tombo o moleque...(i [am gonna] topple the guy)
> OR
> E tombou, o moleque...(and he fell)
> (I guess that could also read "and he toppled the guy")

now despite my having seen 3 and a half different version of this song,
the first line is one the more or less all agree on. so i am not going to
use that suggestion, and will stick with:

ê tombo moleque ê tombo

> Para derrubar = to really knock him down/out

ok, so "trip and fall down" :}

> And then....
> Magia deitado eu nego

so a native speaker wrote me about this line and said:

Magia negra is a compound word in portuguese and you cannot fit another
word in between and still keep the same meaning. The original would have
to be something like: “a magia negra deitou aquele que derrubou meu
companheiro” to support that translation.

My take in this song is that the word is jazia, not magia. Jazia is the
past tense of the verb Jazer (ele jazia). It means to be lying down and
it is used almost exclusively to mean that you are lying down because
you died. Thus, "Jazia deitado o nego" would make more sense … (the N
word in portuguese does not have the same negative connotation that it
does in english)

The rough translation for the verses would be something like:

Laid on the floor was the black guy
who knocked down my friend

so until another native speaker corrects me or gives another alternative,
i am gonna stick with:

jazia deitado o nego
que derrubo meu companheiro

> THEN it would sound like retalliation--watch out, we're gonna get you
> bcse we know you decked my friend. We might even use a poison grass
> blade. ;). Open this f-ing roda so that it might go differently this
> time.

huh. i humbly submit that that's not close to how i interpret the melody
or jogo of this song, and it doesn't jibe with my sense of the spirit of
capoeira songs: what you suggest sounds like it's about being mean;
capoeira can be (very) hard, but i would not call capoeira mean.

> Batuque is all over samba lyrics, meaning "beat" or drumming.

and bate gives "batucada" and "bateria"

> But maybe they're threatening a rasteira along with the grass treatment,
> ay carumba. ("In a NICE way", right, CM?)

the ambuscade was a specific rite of passage, not a mugging. :}

[pedrolima cruz]

It would be good to play Mestre Ananias Cd in class to help with that song. Or copy a youtube video to the list serve. 

Capacete, you are correct!

"Batuque" is an African dance, mostly for man, whom would knock each other down with real and violent rasteiras as well as leg kicks.

Axe

[Pieter VandenBerge]

I believe it's actually "jazia deitado negro"  rather than "magia deitado negro."

That basically means knocked out flat.  I believe it means technically laid out and prepared for the coffin, but I think the slang is closer to knocked out, etc.

I got this translation from Elio when he was still training.

Piet

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[lexy...@doyenne.com]

On Wed, 29 Jan 2014, Pieter VandenBerge wrote:

> I believe it's actually "jazia deitado negro"  rather than "magia deitado
> negro."

whoops! added an extra "o" in there! yes: jazia deitado nego

[Dawn Noel Coler]

You're right, Lex, not poisonous.  I just knew there was something bad about it.  Probably just that it's invasive and grows out of control.  The reason I knew there was something bad about it is: I've heard it as a capoeira name!  Couldn't pronounce it, learned it was a grass.  But there's also a well-known politician/actor/performer from São Paulo with the name, which caused me to look it up one time, wondering why in hell anyone would use that name.  Turns out his own mother called him it from a young age, thanks to his bad temper.  Nice.  I read that it's also called shit-grass.

So no dictionary, just random, poorly-remembered tidbits.  Hey, you said "any help"... :)  

Ah, Piet, that makes much more sense, jazia....  Thanks.

[lexy...@doyenne.com]

i *love* that we are digging into this stuff.