How does the App Store know? Anything!

[xairbusdriver]

Even after using the developers Growl Version Detective app, I could
find absolutely no versions of Growl on my boot drive (NOTE: That
doesn't mean there isn't something in Time Machine or the attached
backup drive/partitions). Of course, the App Store still claims it's
'Installed' even after Shutdown and Restarts.

I'll do some testing tomorrow by disconnecting the external drive. But
I think it may be more a matter of editing the /Library/Receipts/
InstallHistory.plist XML file. Previous versions of X stored ".pkg"
files in that location, and third-party apps still can, I think. But
that plist is interesting and possibly how Lion now records what is
installed.

Here are two different entries in that file: (apparently no formatting
options in these forums...maybe when Google becomes successful,
they'll be able to provide those kinds of tools... :rolleyes: )
<dict>
<key>date</key>
<date>2011-11-04T14:09:57Z</date>
<key>displayName</key>
<string>iMac EFI Firmware Update</string>
<key>displayVersion</key>
<string>1.7</string>
<key>packageIdentifiers</key>
<array>
<string>com.apple.pkg.iMacEFIUpdate</string>
</array>
<key>processName</key>
<string>Software Update</string>
</dict>
<dict>
<key>date</key>
<date>2011-11-06T20:00:46Z</date>
<key>displayName</key>
<string>Growl</string>
<key>displayVersion</key>
<string></string>
<key>packageIdentifiers</key>
<array>
<string>com.Growl.GrowlHelperApp</string>
</array>
<key>processName</key>
<string>storeagent</string>
</dict>

The biggest difference between these two entries, in my opinion, is
the processNameKey string, The .iMacEFIUpdate was downloaded via
Software Update. The problem app, Growl 1.3.x notes that it came from
the App Store (aka: store agent). I'm thinking this may actually be a
file that the Store reads when we access it and it is how it
determines what apps are "Installed." This could explain why removing
all traces of an app from our drive(s) can still show as "Installed"
at the Store. Normal removal methods don't touch any System owned
files or databases. And I doubt most third-party "App Deleting" tools
do either. Of course, this is only my suspicion, I have no proof, even
anecdotal. But I plan on seeing if editing out that Growl install
entry can convince the Store that it's no longer on my computer!

OTOH, with my luck, the App Store won't have it's own database of my
purchase and will only allow me to download after paying the two
bucks, again! 8-) Please wish me luck!

[Christopher Forsythe]

The app store keeps track of what you have paid, and won't make you pay again in my experience. This is true of both the MAS and ios app store. I've "rebought" Growl with the same account probably 20 times now, and not once have I been double charged (yes I bought Growl and didn't use a promo code). Does this information help?

Chris

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[Charlie S]

From what I have herd is that the App Store uses the spotlight index

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[Christopher Forsythe]

It looks at whatever application is associated with com.growl.growlhelperapp as far as I know.

Chris

[xairbusdriver]

On Nov 8, 9:34 pm, Christopher Forsythe <ch...@growl.info> wrote:
> The app store keeps track of what you have paid, and won't make you pay
> again in my experience. This is true of both the MAS and ios app store.
> I've "rebought" Growl with the same account probably 20 times now, and not
> once have I been double charged (yes I bought Growl and didn't use a promo
> code). Does this information help?

I've heard and read the same. Only time I've actually tried to "re-
download" anything was to get a copy of the Lion Installer. Since Lion
came installed on my new iMac, all I had to depend on was the Recovery
partition. I felt I'd paid at least as much as anyone else for Lion
when I bought the hardware. ;-)

I was finally able to get it downloaded...and also getting charged
$30! The techs agreed that I should have a refund but I can't vouch
for actually getting it yet.

The only other time I've wanted/needed/tried a re-download is with
Growl. But I can't even get the Store to allow me to pay for it again,
much less actually download it. :rolleyes:

[xairbusdriver]

On Nov 8, 9:35 pm, Charlie S <appleli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> From what I have herd is that the App Store uses the spotlight index

That may be true. I don't use Spotlight for anything. All it shows for
"Growl.app" is the "Uninstall Growl.app" (which doesn't real seem to
do anything, of course). Searching for "Growl" provides an almost
completely unusably long list since it shows the word even in emails,
web pages, etc.! The only other '.apps' are 'GrowlMail' (and it's
uninstaller), 'GrowlSafari' and HardwareGrowler'. Oh yeah there's
'Growl Version Detective' which also failed to find anything. :head
bash:

Still, it may require deleting the Spotlight database to get the STore
to co-operate. Not exactly a user-friendly method, in my opinion.

[Christopher Forsythe]

That seems excessive to me. Let's try to find another way.

I think it may actually be launch services and not spotlight, but I would have to look into it.

Chris

[xairbusdriver]

On Nov 8, 9:38 pm, Christopher Forsythe <ch...@growl.info> wrote:
> It looks at whatever application is associated with
> com.growl.growlhelperapp as far as I know.

That's probably correct. That would explain why I get a dialog saying
I "can't open the application...because it may be damaged or
incomplete. I get that dialog when I click the GrowlHelperApp in
LaunchPad (I've used that app more in the last 12 hours than in the
four months I've had Lion! LOL! What a piece of junk!). What's
actually 'damaged' or 'incomplete' is the actual Growl.app. DUH!

[Christopher Forsythe]

Try clicking + holding GrowlHelperApp in Launchpad, and then clicking the X to remove it. Then relaunch the app store app.

Chris 

[xairbusdriver]

On Nov 8, 10:12 pm, Christopher Forsythe <ch...@growl.info> wrote:

Alas, there was no "x" on the 'shaking' GrowlHelper.app. And, of
course, there was no "Growl.app" there, either.

However, I disconnected my external drive before starting the Mac,
this morning. Opened the App Store and found a different display of
'installed' apps (as if all CSS was turned off!). All the previous
"Installed" labels/buttons now said "Install"! I clicked the Growl
link and the same "Install" button appeared under its icon. A simple
click called up my Apple ID info request and the app actually
downloaded and installed. It's now in the Applications folder, just
like it is supposed to be. It also appears in the ridiculously
uncontrollable Launch Pad screen (#3) along with the GrowlHelper.app.

Only conclusion is that the App Store couldn't find the data it
normally looked for. I made an extended effort to remove all traces of
Growl, including plists, Application Support files, etc. before
Shutdown last night.

I had found a new plist (InstalledHistory.plist) in the Library/
Receipts directory yesterday. But I did nothing more than read a copy
of that file, no editing, re-saving, etc. And, yet, today, the Store
shows every app I've ever bought as available for re-downloading! And
the display is much different/basic. I really suspect that Apple has
made some modifications to the App Store "app" (which I suspect is
nothing more than an dynamic html page with connections to certain OS
system frameworks and the back end database on Apple's servers.

Oh well, all I know for sure is that I was able to get Growl back on
my drive! Now, will it stay there through a Restart with the external
dive attached?! ;-)

[xairbusdriver]

After two Restarts (with external drive connected and one without) the
App Store is back to reporting Growl as "Installed" and not allowing
re-downloading. To me this implies that with any traces of any Growl
resources on the drive, it is simply not available for another
download.

Just for grins, I edited the Spotlight prefers to *not* include the
external partitions in its index (although I have not yet deleted the
current index). That may or may not affect the 're-install'
availability.

At least I can feel confident that Growl is correctly installed. it is
still in the Menu Bar and the Applications folder.

The InstallHistory.plist shows an entry for the date/time I re-
downloaded "Growl" but the older download/install data remains. I have
no idea of how long data might remain in that file or if it is ever
'cleared' of old info.

[Chris Forsythe]

Ya so MAS is *really* aggressive here, I think due to the fact that in OS X an application is a bundle, and you can put a bundle anywhere. They had to account for that.

Unfortunately you run into issues like this.

I think what you could probably do is whenever you want to upgrade something that's in the MAS (not just Growl), you could just detach your external drives and that'll take care of it. It would be interesting to see if what you did with Spotlight helps here, but I think it's actually something else that affects it and not spotlight.

-- 
Chris Forsythe

[Charlie S]

[Charlie S]

"The problem with the App Store updates may be rooted in the store's use of Spotlight to locate installed applications. In order for the store to locate the applications, the Spotlight index needs to be working properly."

Mac App Store updates not working

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-20050796-263.html

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Chris Forsythe <ch...@growl.info> wrote:

[xairbusdriver]

I actually did not do anything with Spotlight except a couple of searches. Well, nothing yesterday, anyway. I DID add the external drive partitions to the list of items to not index this morning, however.

If Spotlight is being accessed or used, it would have had to also be reporting those resources not being available because the external drive was disconnected. That sounds like a rather complicated, indirect and certainly not fool-proof method of authorization/verification. And it begs the question of why I have to do any jumping through hoops to redownload a purchase. It is obvious they know that I made the purchase and the download on the computer I logged in with. And, except for the OS itself, I've read that any purchased app can be loaded onto any machine simply by logging in properly.

The only thing I did that seems to have made any difference was to physically delete (and empty the Trash) every trace of Growl I could find. The MAS then allowed me to re-download.

The strange thing is that all purchases showed as being available for an "Install" not just Growl. After my second install and a Restart, the MAS returned to its original indication for all purchases: "InstallED".

There are so many variables in this that I can't be sure if any one thing caused the "fix." It could even have been a intermittent problem on the MAS servers. I hear there is something called "iCloud" being introduced now-a-days! LOL! I've not registered for that, yet, however.

[Christopher Forsythe]

We have a ticket in with them and we've made it abundantly clear to our contact within the app store program that the app store is way too aggressive here. I would suggest filing a radar on it yourself as well.

http://bugreporter.apple.com if you don't know the url.

Overall the app store seems to work out for a lot of people, but then there are people who run into problems like you are running into (not specific to Growl). I'd like to try to document all of the possible ways to get around the problem, but we can take that offline if you'd like.

Chris

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