No Support for Mail???

[NoNickName]

I can't believe you would start charging for Growl and take out the
most useful feature. I can't believe I spent money on this. I can't
believe how ripped off I feel after only spending 2 bucks.
The Menu Extra was a terrible idea too. Don't you think there are
enough things in our Menu bars that don't belong there? How does
Growl belong there? You could have at least used the hack so we can
move the dang thing!

Can I please have a refund????!!!

[Chris Forsythe]

So, you can still grab GrowlMail, it's just supported differently now. And you can disable the menubar icon if you look in General preferences.

More information for GrowlMail here: http://growl.info/growlmail

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Chris Forsythe

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[NoNickName]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the heads up on that. I wasn't able to find it when I
looked.

Is there a Growl Prefereneces plugin that will put Growl back in Sys
Prefs where it belongs?
If I disable the Menu Extra how then can I get to the prefs window?

Thanks

On Jan 6, 10:06 am, Chris Forsythe <ch...@growl.info> wrote:
> So, you can still grab GrowlMail, it's just supported differently now. And you can disable the menubar icon if you look in General preferences.
>
> More information for GrowlMail here:http://growl.info/growlmail
>
> --
> Chris Forsythe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, January 6, 2012 at 1:56 AM, NoNickName wrote:
> > I can't believe you would start charging for Growl and take out the
> > most useful feature. I can't believe I spent money on this. I can't
> > believe how ripped off I feel after only spending 2 bucks.
> > The Menu Extra was a terrible idea too. Don't you think there are
> > enough things in our Menu bars that don't belong there? How does
> > Growl belong there? You could have at least used the hack so we can
> > move the dang thing!
>
> > Can I please have a refund????!!!
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Growl Discuss" group.

> > To post to this group, send email to growld...@googlegroups.com (mailto:growld...@googlegroups.com).
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to growldiscuss...@googlegroups.com (mailto:growldiscuss...@googlegroups.com).

[Chris Forsythe]

Growl is an application, it's not going back to system preferences. If you disable the menu item, the window that shows up tells you how you can bring the Growl settings window back up (i.e. by simply opening it).

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[NoNickName]

You really should listen to your users. Read the reviews on the App
Store dude. You pretty much missed on your "upgrade".
It's really not worth even a measly 2 bucks. Strangely enough, when
it was free and before you made all these bad decisions, I would have
gladly paid quite a bit more for it.

[smajor]

Firstly, I'm not one of the devs. I'm like you - a long time user.

In order for Growl to be in the App Store, the devs had to make may of the changes you're not happy with.  Apple is very picky about what can and cannot go into the App Store.  Preference Panes aren't allowed nor are mail bundles - which is why I assume GrowlMail is likely a separate download now and, you'll note, not available via the App Store.

Frankly, I'm amazed Apple even allows Growl (and Hardware Growler) to be there as an application that has a faceless mode (no menubar or dock icon) - it'd make much more sense to allow Pref Panes!

1.3.x has it's quirks, but each update fixes tons of issues.  I bet 1.3.3 will be even better.  I do miss access to the beta, or rather the way that the "old" version had a page to download it if you knew where to look.  While messy and unorganized in terms of bug reports, I bet that "beta access" caught many bugs before a release that most users saw.

[Phat Bob]

On 7 Jan 2012, at 15:08, smajor <maj...@gmail.com> wrote:

Firstly, I'm not one of the devs. I'm like you - a long time user.

And I am...

In order for Growl to be in the App Store, the devs had to make may of the changes you're not happy with.  Apple is very picky about what can and cannot go into the App Store. 

So, why put it in the App Store at all?  Why change the tried and tested Prefs Pane which all(?) users understood?

Also, moving to being an app is one of the key things the API broke on.

Preference Panes aren't allowed nor are mail bundles - which is why I assume GrowlMail is likely a separate download now and, you'll note, not available via the App Store.

Frankly, I'm amazed Apple even allows Growl (and Hardware Growler) to be there as an application that has a faceless mode (no menubar or dock icon) - it'd make much more sense to allow Pref Panes!

Sadly, if Apple had blocked Growl, it'd have probably been a Good Thing as it turns out.

1.3.x has it's quirks, but each update fixes tons of issues. 

Please define "tons".  1.3.2 added two new displays which broke Growl when run on case-sensitive filesystems.

I bet 1.3.3 will be even better.  I do miss access to the beta, or rather the way that the "old" version had a page to download it if you knew where to look. 

This, in my opinion, is where the devs completely dropped the ball.  Even if all the move to application in App Store really was necessary, a build up to it via the website would have been very helpful - especially an FAQ, Knowledge Base or at least a "don't install if you are running apps x, y and z" warning.

While messy and unorganized in terms of bug reports, I bet that "beta access" caught many bugs before a release that most users saw.

Its admirable that you want to support the devs but I spent a number of unpaid weekends trying to get 1.3.1 working before eventually rolling it off 50 machines and putting 1.2.2 back  - during which time putting up with the abuse and heckling from my users.

I guess that'll teach me to use "free" software then?  Oh, hang on, 1.3.x is the paid for version isn't it? :)

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[Chris Forsythe]

On Saturday, January 7, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Phat Bob wrote:

On 7 Jan 2012, at 15:08, smajor <maj...@gmail.com> wrote:

Firstly, I'm not one of the devs. I'm like you - a long time user.

And I am...

In order for Growl to be in the App Store, the devs had to make may of the changes you're not happy with.  Apple is very picky about what can and cannot go into the App Store. 

So, why put it in the App Store at all?  Why change the tried and tested Prefs Pane which all(?) users understood?

A lot of users didn't understand prefpanes. As evidenced by people searching their file systems for Growl for years, and not finding it, and then contacting us. This was exacerbated by multiple applications installing Growl without even telling them about it, or reinstalling Growl when the user removed it. We were having to instruct people as to where Growl was, what a prefpane is, and oh ya, go dig around in ~/Library to fix things. That's a broken interaction. A lot of people actually like this change. Myself included obviously, since I have to answer a ton less questions about where Growl is. Users know since they can find Growl easily now. 

You may not like the fact that Growl is an application, but that doesn't stop the fact that this change solves real problems. The real change here is that you have to go to a different place to configure Growl, and that's about it. The side affect is that some applications aren't talking to Growl currently, but that can be alleviated by Growl Version Detective and then contacting that application's developer asking them to update.

 

Also, moving to being an app is one of the key things the API broke on.

Unfortunately true, but a simple fix.

 

Preference Panes aren't allowed nor are mail bundles - which is why I assume GrowlMail is likely a separate download now and, you'll note, not available via the App Store.

Frankly, I'm amazed Apple even allows Growl (and Hardware Growler) to be there as an application that has a faceless mode (no menubar or dock icon) - it'd make much more sense to allow Pref Panes!

Sadly, if Apple had blocked Growl, it'd have probably been a Good Thing as it turns out.

To be frank, it actually wouldn't have, since it was either that or I would have shuttered the project. 

 

1.3.x has it's quirks, but each update fixes tons of issues. 

Please define "tons".  1.3.2 added two new displays which broke Growl when run on case-sensitive filesystems.

And fixed other problems. We didn't catch the case sensitive file system issue, but that's just how it is. Software gets released, something is found, you fix it, you move on. Case sensitive file systems have been added to our testing checklist before going out to beta testers. We have it tested in 1.3.3 beta 1, I'm working on the next beta tonight, and we'll go from there.

Unfortunately since our previous beta system did not yield very many people actually providing feedback, our testing matrix is pretty slim. The new private beta list actually provides a lot more useful feedback, which is great. It just seems that not a lot of people are using case sensitive file systems. We added a few people who run case sensitive file systems to our list as well, so that's good.

The ironic thing is that we had a lot more people beta testing previously, but a lot less good feedback. So this change is pretty positive.

 

I bet 1.3.3 will be even better.  I do miss access to the beta, or rather the way that the "old" version had a page to download it if you knew where to look. 

This, in my opinion, is where the devs completely dropped the ball.  Even if all the move to application in App Store really was necessary, a build up to it via the website would have been very helpful - especially an FAQ, Knowledge Base or at least a "don't install if you are running apps x, y and z" warning.

Unfortunately Apple set the sandboxing deadline to November, so we had to rush everything to have enough time to put out a second release that was not sandboxed. Then they moved their sandboxing deadline. I've been adding items to the website continually since then and working towards improving things. However, nothing is perfect. If you have specific positive constructive feedback, I'd be glad to listen. I've been adding/moving/subtracting from the website based on feedback so far since 1.3 shipped, and will continue to do so.

 

While messy and unorganized in terms of bug reports, I bet that "beta access" caught many bugs before a release that most users saw.

Its admirable that you want to support the devs but I spent a number of unpaid weekends trying to get 1.3.1 working before eventually rolling it off 50 machines and putting 1.2.2 back  - during which time putting up with the abuse and heckling from my users.

I'm surprised that you roll out any software at all to your users without first testing it. I highly recommend testing software with known configurations before pushing it out to any number of end users, and I'm sure that others would repeat what I'm saying here. It's unfortunate that you spent that time on it, but I think my suggestion of testing beforehand will really help with regards to getting things as ready as possible before pushing software to your end users. This is more just general advice since I've been where you are before, and switching to this methodology for all software really does save time, energy and frustration on both your part and your end users part.

[xairbusdriver]

What kind of 'meds' are you on, Mr. Forsythe?! LOL! I'M JOKING!
Really!! 8-)

I've never seen so many supposedly computer literate people whine and
complain about what they think should happen! ;-) I suspect the vast
majority of them have no idea of where Growl gets its information that
it then relays to us. Or how many different developers of completely
different apps have to make changes so their app will once again work
with Growl. Or exactly what changes were made to meet the seemingly
arbitrary requirements by Apple.

I'm somewhat bemused by the lack of Beta testers since so many seem
perfectly willing to update to a new release without the slightest
hesitation of back-up procedures. That sounds like a great attitude
for Beta testers; you'll get reports of problems REAL fast, also. At
any rate, it sounds like you have a better working group now. We all
owe those people a debt of gratitude, they many times get to do a lot
of "clean up" to their Systems that most of us would rather never have
to do! Beta testing is real work!

Seriously, I think the feedback proves that there is a large group of
people who like Growl and want to see it succeed. I can only hope that
all the Growl devs can see that silver lining in the cloud of
complaints. ;-) Keep up the good work, thanks for your patience with
people who should know better than talk the way some have. And,
whatever you're taking, don't stop!!! :laughhard:

[smajor]

On Saturday, January 7, 2012 2:27:26 PM UTC-5, phat bob wrote:

Please define "tons".  1.3.2 added two new displays which broke Growl when run on case-sensitive filesystems.

Read the changelog to start: http://growl.info/documentation/version_history.php  A little bit more than two broken styles, although maybe "pounds" instead of "tons."

Visit the googlecode site and check out the "Issues" area for another. You can see if your issue might be addressed in an upcoming update. Shouldn't be too much trouble for a dev to find their way around.

Its admirable that you want to support the devs but I spent a number of unpaid weekends trying to get 1.3.1 working before eventually rolling it off 50 machines and putting 1.2.2 back  - during which time putting up with the abuse and heckling from my users.

I guess that'll teach me to use "free" software then?  Oh, hang on, 1.3.x is the paid for version isn't it? :)

 
As someone who is co-support for 1,400+ computers at a University, your long weekends are, respectfully, your own fault.  We'd NEVER roll out software to 50, 100 or 500 machines without testing!  Be it Adobe CS, Office, or something comparatively trivial as an FTP client or, yes, even Growl. Even though it's been out a little while now, and it's been rolled into my 10.7 master image, it's STILL in limited deployment undergoing some testing.  I'm comfortable enough with what I've seen that it will make it into my summer faculty replacement cycle which will encompass many more computers.

As an aside, you might want to look at Remote Desktop and the task server feature. While you might have lost a weekend; maybe only 1/2 of one, you could have automated the shuffling around of Growl. Task it to run the switch as each user's computer becomes visible, assuming you're not in a position to have them all running and on the net at the same time.

[Phat Bob]

On 7 Jan 2012, at 22:04, smajor <maj...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, January 7, 2012 2:27:26 PM UTC-5, phat bob wrote:

Please define "tons".  1.3.2 added two new displays which broke Growl when run on case-sensitive filesystems.

Read the changelog to start: http://growl.info/documentation/version_history.php  A little bit more than two broken styles, although maybe "pounds" instead of "tons."

Visit the googlecode site and check out the "Issues" area for another. You can see if your issue might be addressed in an upcoming update. Shouldn't be too much trouble for a dev to find their way around.

Its admirable that you want to support the devs but I spent a number of unpaid weekends trying to get 1.3.1 working before eventually rolling it off 50 machines and putting 1.2.2 back  - during which time putting up with the abuse and heckling from my users.

I guess that'll teach me to use "free" software then?  Oh, hang on, 1.3.x is the paid for version isn't it? :)

 
As someone who is co-support for 1,400+ computers at a University, your long weekends are, respectfully, your own fault.  We'd NEVER roll out software to 50, 100 or 500 machines without testing! 

I should have pointed out that the 50 users were the PoC team - we have 500 users running Growl.  They still moan and grumble like real users though.

My main frustration is that Growl simply broke comparability with almost all applications and the view from the developers is "meh, fix it yourself".  We have a bunch of in-house applications, all of which would have required updating simply to support 1.3.x - something we don't have a business case for.

We're now back on 1.2.2 and actively looking for an alternative to Growl.  This isn't a threat or flame, by the way; just the way it is...

Be it Adobe CS, Office, or something comparatively trivial as an FTP client or, yes, even Growl. Even though it's been out a little while now, and it's been rolled into my 10.7 master image, it's STILL in limited deployment undergoing some testing.  I'm comfortable enough with what I've seen that it will make it into my summer faculty replacement cycle which will encompass many more computers.

We're private sector so have to justify any expenditure and upgrading 12 apps simply because some middleware has broken things doesn't stack up.

As an aside, you might want to look at Remote Desktop and the task server feature. While you might have lost a weekend; maybe only 1/2 of one, you could have automated the shuffling around of Growl. Task it to run the switch as each user's computer becomes visible, assuming you're not in a position to have them all running and on the net at the same time.

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[Chris Forsythe]

On Sunday, January 8, 2012 at 1:59 AM, Phat Bob wrote:

On 7 Jan 2012, at 22:04, smajor <maj...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, January 7, 2012 2:27:26 PM UTC-5, phat bob wrote:

Please define "tons".  1.3.2 added two new displays which broke Growl when run on case-sensitive filesystems.

Read the changelog to start: http://growl.info/documentation/version_history.php  A little bit more than two broken styles, although maybe "pounds" instead of "tons."

Visit the googlecode site and check out the "Issues" area for another. You can see if your issue might be addressed in an upcoming update. Shouldn't be too much trouble for a dev to find their way around.

Its admirable that you want to support the devs but I spent a number of unpaid weekends trying to get 1.3.1 working before eventually rolling it off 50 machines and putting 1.2.2 back  - during which time putting up with the abuse and heckling from my users.

I guess that'll teach me to use "free" software then?  Oh, hang on, 1.3.x is the paid for version isn't it? :)

 
As someone who is co-support for 1,400+ computers at a University, your long weekends are, respectfully, your own fault.  We'd NEVER roll out software to 50, 100 or 500 machines without testing! 

I should have pointed out that the 50 users were the PoC team - we have 500 users running Growl.  They still moan and grumble like real users though.

My main frustration is that Growl simply broke comparability with almost all applications and the view from the developers is "meh, fix it yourself".  We have a bunch of in-house applications, all of which would have required updating simply to support 1.3.x - something we don't have a business case for.

We're now back on 1.2.2 and actively looking for an alternative to Growl.  This isn't a threat or flame, by the way; just the way it is...

Do these applications not use the framework? 

[Phat Bob]