31 Oct 2015 self: let me go through Sandro Mancuso's talk: 'Does TDD really lead to good design?' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApsW72JSVJM
...in the past 5 years you will find many places with me saying TDD leads to good design, and I really strongly believed in that...why is it difficult for other people?
And why is it not difficult for other people...a group of people have no problem at all, but other peopl struggle a lot, I was always thinking: why?...another other thing, a lot of people can test drive the code, but not always the design is quite right after that...
00:03 if the red-green-refactor cycle is so easy to understand, why is it so hard to do? Where is the design here?
00:03:20 In TDD, where does the design happen? Refactor, what do we do in the refactor phase? What is the guideline? Make code better. Maintainable, Readable, all the -able ities. So what is the prescription here? What do we do? Just 'make the code better' doesn't help. That's why we fail. 'make the code better'. How? What are we looking for?
Has anyone heard about the Foru Rules of Simple Design (4RSD). In any order. Duplication. Pass the tests. Fewer elements. Reveal Intent. Where does this come from? Kent Beck, part of XP. Is this part of TDD? No it's not. I asked @ronJeffries, and he is one of the creators of TDD, of XP, alongside Kent Beck, and it's not. This (4RSD) is not TDD.
Where is the design part of TDD if that (4RSD) is not part of TDD? <Silence>. So how come it is a design tool?
@philip_schwarz "TDD is not a design tool...there is zero prescription in the 'refactor' step of TDD" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApsW72JSVJM
@philip_schwarz "What are the 2 main styles of TDD?...The 2 schools are not opposites...u can mix & match" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApsW72JSVJM
@philip_schwarz #GOOS start @ the periphery of the sys & work in. I start in the center of the sys & work out https://groups.google.com/d/msg/clean-code-discussion/A6sJQjnwvnA/7ZmK0LGUtuIJ @unclebobmartin #TDD
@philip_schwarz in the classicist approach,the unit under test may become bigger...use refactoring 2 extract https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApsW72JSVJM
@philip_schwarz @philip_schwarz related 2 unit under test growing:@ICooper in TDD,where did it all go wrong? https://vimeo.com/68375232
@philip_schwarz classicist approach designs according 2 feedback from code+normally minimises upfront design https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApsW72JSVJM
@philip_schwarz I use the classicist approach when I don't have a proper domain e.g. when doing an algorithm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApsW72JSVJM
That's how far I have got.
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