"Hard to get" note cluster

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Rob Leduc

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Jan 20, 2022, 8:55:37 AMJan 20
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I have a cluster of notes that I'm trying to reproduce and I just can't get it to work; I've attached a jpg of the line.  I'm not good with chant terminology, but it is sort of a porrectus with a fifth note stacked on top of the fourth, at the end of the syllable Re in Regi. 

Trying to make that fourth note a quilisma doesn't seem to work - or I can't figure out a pattern of fusions to make it go.  Any ideas would be appreciated! 

Thanks!

Rob

Here are some attempts:

\documentclass{book}
\usepackage[autocompile]{gregoriotex}
\begin{document}

What I want, except with a standard punctum instead of the quilisma:

\gabcsnippet{Re(ixdh!ivGFg@hg@hi)gi(hggo~) (,) }
\bigskip

Adding the quilisma changes the cluster:

\gabcsnippet{Re(ixdh!ivGFg@hg@hwi)gi(hggo~) (,) }
\bigskip

Let gregorio choose what it thinks (no quilisma):

\gabcsnippet{Re(ixdh!ivGFghghi)gi(hggo~) (,) }
\bigskip

...and with quilisma:

\gabcsnippet{Re(ixdh!ivGFghghwi)gi(hggo~) (,) }


\end{document}


chant_snippet.jpeg

Fr. Samuel Springuel

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Jan 20, 2022, 12:41:38 PMJan 20
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As it stands, there is no way to fuse into a quilisma, so the note pattern you’re looking at is not possible. What source are you finding this pattern in?

✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝
Fr. Samuel, OSB
(R. Padraic Springuel)
St. Anselm’s Abbey
4501 South Dakota Ave, NE
Washington, DC, 20017
202-269-2300
(c) 202-853-7036

PAX ☧ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ
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> <chant_snippet.jpeg>

Patrick Williams

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Jan 20, 2022, 2:17:18 PMJan 20
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This is interesting.  I was unable to reproduce a neume from the Graduale Novum, in the offertory Recordare on p. 340 of the first volume, namely the first four notes, a torculus resupinus terminating with a virga.  Is this one possible with Gregorio?

Recordare neume example.jpg

Rob Leduc

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Jan 20, 2022, 2:33:03 PMJan 20
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Hi,

The source is Sandhofe's 2002 Nocturnale Romanum, page [126] in the Common for Virgins and non Virgins, Responsory #6 for Virgins, Offerentur Regi.  Link to a page,  but you'll have to scroll down to the responsory itself:

https://gregobase.selapa.net/source.php?id=23&images=1&index=49

It's good, in a way, to know it isn't possible so I can't stop driving myself crazy.

Thanks!

R

Fr. Samuel Springuel

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Jan 20, 2022, 2:35:53 PMJan 20
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> On Jan 20, 2022, at 2:17 PM, 'Patrick Williams' via Gregorio Users <gregori...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> This is interesting. I was unable to reproduce a neume from the Graduale Novum, in the offertory Recordare on p. 340 of the first volume, namely the first four notes, a torculus resupinus terminating with a virga. Is this one possible with Gregorio?

While the documentation isn’t explicit about this one (the way it is for the quilisma) I think the same thing applies.

Both of these cases suggest that a feature enhancement for fusion might be in order.

rled...@gmail.com

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Jan 20, 2022, 3:27:17 PMJan 20
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While I am not competent to judge the need for a fusion enhancement, I have typeset quite a lot of this book now, and this is the only such figure I have observed.

My understanding, which may be incorrect, is that Sandhofe’s work can be a little idiosyncratic. But having a second example from elsewhere may add more strength to the proposition of expanding fusion.

Thanks for this software. It is amazing.

R
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Fr. Samuel Springuel

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Jan 20, 2022, 3:31:15 PMJan 20
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I can cheat a bit with the spacing to make this one happen: Do(ixg@jh@i/[-2.1]ivGFgvFD)

Note that musically this is complete bull as it repeats the `i` and simply adjusts the spacing to make them appear on top of one another.

✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝✝
Fr. Samuel, OSB
(R. Padraic Springuel)
St. Anselm’s Abbey
4501 South Dakota Ave, NE
Washington, DC, 20017
202-269-2300
(c) 202-853-7036

PAX ☧ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ

> On Jan 20, 2022, at 2:17 PM, 'Patrick Williams' via Gregorio Users <gregori...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> This is interesting. I was unable to reproduce a neume from the Graduale Novum, in the offertory Recordare on p. 340 of the first volume, namely the first four notes, a torculus resupinus terminating with a virga. Is this one possible with Gregorio?
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gregorio-users/4611a04f-c6af-4330-ab78-23cd98b910b5n%40googlegroups.com.
> <Recordare neume example.jpg>

Patrick Williams

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Jan 20, 2022, 4:06:57 PMJan 20
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Thank you, Father!  You've taught me a new trick.  I didn't know about the /[-2.1] code.  I find it peculiar that jh@i produces the porrectus shape for the first two notes, but jh@iv produces a clivis, the same as jh!iv.

Patrick

Patrick Williams

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Jan 21, 2022, 5:44:53 PMJan 21
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This is interesting.  I was unable to reproduce a neume from the Graduale Novum, in the offertory Recordare on p. 340 of the first volume, namely the first four notes, a torculus resupinus terminating with a virga.  Is this one possible with Gregorio?

IMG_20220120_100533925_HDR.jpg


Henry So Jr.

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Jan 23, 2022, 2:55:40 PMJan 23
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Are there any examples of fusing into a quilisma at an ambitus of more
than one pitch?

Henry
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gregorio-users/6E14AA93-478F-4284-BF1C-CB1915C1AB81%40gmail.com.
>

rled...@gmail.com

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Jan 23, 2022, 3:41:14 PMJan 23
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This is the only example I have come across so far.

R
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Jörg Hudelmaier

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Jan 23, 2022, 4:00:58 PMJan 23
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Of course one can always tweak the TeX like this:
(c4)Re([gv:\let\GPON=\GreCPPesOneNothing\let\GreCPPesOneNothing=\GreCPQuilismaPesOneNothing]ixdhivGFg@hg@hi)gi([gv:\let\GreCPPesOneNothing=\GPON]g@hg@hi)

Jörg Hudelmaier

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Jan 24, 2022, 8:52:53 AMJan 24
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The "Domine"-example could be done like this:
Do([gv:\let\GP=\GreCPPunctum\let\GreCPPunctum=\GreCPVirga]ixg@jh@i)mi([gv:\let\GreCPPunctum=\GP]g@jh@i)

Rob Leduc

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Feb 13, 2022, 11:31:15 AMFeb 13
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That's a little kludgey, but very clever.  Thanks.

Rob Leduc

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Feb 17, 2022, 12:03:37 PMFeb 17
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Here is another that may related to fusion with a quilisma.  Or a liquescent.   Or something.

From:  Sandhofe's Nocturnale Romanum, p. 278*, Responsary 1 for Nativity of the Virgin Mary; here's a link, but you'd need to scroll down:
https://gregobase.selapa.net/source.php?id=23&images=1&index=39

Attached a screen grab; it's on the syllable "mun" of "mundi" at the end of the second line.

R
notes.jpeg

Patrick Williams

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Feb 17, 2022, 1:13:27 PMFeb 17
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It requires a few @s, but easy enough: (h!iw@ji@j@ih~)

Rob Leduc

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Feb 17, 2022, 7:29:01 PMFeb 17
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Ah - thanks so much, kind sir!  I think I tried every possible 2-@ combination and gave up too soon!

R
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