Richard, what was the name and location of the facilities you mention
in Zurich? Was it an organics sorting plant?
In reply to Rebecca, the "batch" systems she must be referring to must
be similar to the system by BEKON in Germany. There is actually a
conference by the German Chamber of Commerce close to Montreal on May
4. The North American representative present there is Jean-Claude
Corbeil. As far as I know, these systems are not very popular in
Germany. The push from the government in the recent years was axed
towards green energy crops, mainly corn silage on farm digesters,
which is far from AD of food wastes.
http://kanada.ahk.de/index.php?id=78&no_cache=1&L=15&tx_mjseventpro_pi1[showUid]=192&cHash=d2a0346779&recentView=listView
My thoughts to these batch systems:
More capital investment necessary than single stage continuous dry-
fermentation, more land base required to store organics while one of
the 'garage' is being filled, digested, or vented. Think of a SBR for
aerated wastewater treatment, reaction time for SBR is much quicker
here (typically 4 to 6 hrs) compared to 60-90 days with anaerobic
treatment with this type of system. How much of these 'garages' are
required?
Biogas quality is a severe issue if you rely on the biogas as a steady
source of revenue to run a generator or a biogas scrubber. Once a
scrubber is set at a specific flow rate, it is very tricky to change
it. You might consult Questair regarding biogas quality issues. They
participated in an important feasibility project in British Columbia.
And remember that even if it requires less pre-treatment to treat
organics in batch systems, as in software engineering: Garbage in =
Garbage out.
Compost quality will be an issue if insufficient pre-treatment is
used, specifically if you wish to market the compost after AD or wish
to meet compost quality criteria like the USEPA Biosolids guidelines,
or like in Ontario, grade "A" compost (I wish I would find the link to
the regulations...).
Or you can go with a continuous, plug flow, thermophilic dry-AD
system, with a retention time of 15-20 days like systems in
Switzerland:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksX3gCR6klw (sorry, in German)
or like the one in Toronto, which I believe is a continuous,
completely mixed, mesophilic slurry (8-12% TS) AD system, with a
retention time of at least 30 days or less (I wish someone from CCI
would chip in on this topic!)
You also have to look at how you will manage your rejects and
wastewater from the process and if you have any odor issues which will
require negative pressure buildings with a biofilter.
And the list goes on...
> These need to be fed only compostable organics but have a dual purpose,?making compost and capturing the?by product gas.? I have toured?operating facilities in Zurich?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jewell, Rebecca <
RJew...@wm.com>
> To: Toni Stein <
tw...@igc.org>; phil fredericks <
philfrederi...@pgtc.com>
>
> Cc: TO SSO <
dougwil...@msn.com>; GreenYes <
Gree...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 11:57 am
> Subject: [GreenYes] Re: anaerobic digesters for food waste
>
> The description provided for Toronto's facility seems to be similar to a waste-water treatment facility which seems to require a lot of pre-processing, grinding, slurry-ing.
>
> ?
>
> I'm hearing a lot about "dry fermentation," lately, which takes organics, food scraps, yard debris, etc, and puts it into a garage-type space under negative pressure, circulate its own liquids over it. During 60-90 days, pull off the methane and other gasses, for use in typical bio-gas facilities and at the end there's compost left in the garage.
>
> Here is the entity working to site a facility here in the SF Bay area;
www.pacificbiogasenergy.com.
>
> ?
>
> Thoughts?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Gree...@googlegroups.com [mailto:
Gree...@googlegroups.com]On Behalf Of Toni Stein
> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:05 AM
> To: phil fredericks
> Cc: TO SSO; GreenYes
> Subject: [GreenYes] Re: anaerobic digesters for food waste
>
> Phil:
> Great work!!
>
> You appeared to want some constructive feed back and to have intellectual dialogue so I'll offer my perspectives regarding issues of "sustainability" to discuss. ?
>
> I have two comments:
>
> 1. ?The operations shown in the videos document operations that generate local concentrations of "particulate matter" from grinding. ?Only one shot showed the worker with a?respirator?on. ?It appeared that future improvements to the operations may be of interest to reduce the PM releases and to ensure that the workers are fully geared and protected from any PM intakes. ?For example the grinder could be enclosed and the PM near it scrubbed with some filtration devices. ?And all the workers could have nose and mouth protection. ?
>
> 2. ?No doubt the creation of humus and compost for use in agriculture is an honorable activity that we need more of. ?The climate change issues that get mixed up surrounding ?WTE concerns "methane" and NOX generation from composting or natural degradation processes in a landfill. ?The question that leans away from some forms of ?composting and of course?land filling?is and may be that anaerobic?digestive systems that includes ?"burning" of the gaseous methane production may be thought of in a positive light because it converts the methane to CO2 and avoids methane releases. ? There is always interest to reduce or minimize methane releases and by some perspectives anaerobic activities with the WTE burn integration converts the methane to CO2 eliminating the release of methane.
>
> The question is how much methane is released from the windrows and is there methods to aerobically minimize it to a level that is acceptable. ?It seems that the WTE process involves high temperatures and may create more NOx issues then the composting . ?What are your thoughts? ? Additionally you show the trucks and heavy equipment and these things all still run on petroleum based products and still involve GHG?productions. ?I'm against WTE for many reasons including the fact that the ash generated has high toxics in it and what do you do with it? ?Similarly what do you do with the plastics that you sieve out of the ground up bio MSW that you are processing?? ?It did not look like there were many electronics in those streams in the videos in that country but in the US and elsewhere the MSW is much more mixed with more chlorine containing and metal containing waste that creates a mess with it is burned for WTE. ?
>
> ?
>
> Best,?
>
> Toni Stein PhD
>
> Berkeley CA
>
>
650-823-7662
>
> On Apr 24, 2009, at 6:50 AM, phil fredericks wrote:
>
> Is Waste to Energy the best and highest value use of this material? Please look athttp://
www.youtube.com/user/MicrobeClean. 4 short videos Be sure to view all four and let's discuss pros and cons.
> On Apr 22, 11:22?am, Neil Tangri <
n...@no-burn.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Doug,
>
> Thanks for this information. I am surprised to hear that
> highly-contaminated SSO still results in high-quality compost. Can you
> tell us how the SSO is "cleaned"? Also, how does the current facility
> handle the biogas? Is it scrubbed prior to burning? Are there emission
> controls on it? All of these are the devils in the details in moving to
> commercial-scale AD.
>
> best,
>
> Neil
>
> TO SSO wrote:
>
> There are lots of anaerobic digesters used to process food waste all
> over the world, both large scale and small scale. ?Toronto has been
> collecting food waste from single family homes for several years now
> and generally collects 110,000 tonnes per year. ?They operate an AD
> facility located in the middle of the city which this year will
> process close to 40,000 tonnes of this material. ?Toronto is very
> happy with this 'demonstration' facility and has now issued a 'Request
> for Proposals' to build it's first full scale facility which will be
> designed to process up to 75,000 tonnes of SSO (source separated
> organics) per year (300 tonnes per day). ?The plant will generate bio-
> energy (not determined yet whether electrical power, pipeline gas or
> biofuel). ?The city plans to build two such facilities in the next 3
> to 4 years.
>
> Toronto's SSO is considered high in 'contamination'. ?In order to
> promote high levels of participation in the program, Toronto allows
> households to collect the food waste in non-biodegradeable film
> plastic bags. ?They also collect pet waste, diapers and as likely in
> any large city get glass jars, tin cans and other assorted
> contamination.
>
> The process used in Toronto strips out the contamination,
> anaerobically digests the organic portion in a mesophilic, fully mixed
> digester. ?The finished, digested solids are shipped out to composters
> outside the city to be aerobically 'finished'. ?The material produced
> at this facility has been tested hundreds of times over several years
> now and easily meets the provinces quality standards allowing it to be
> converted to the highest grade of compost. ?Ontario has one of the
> highest 'compost' standards in the world.
>
> The 'demonstration' plant was designed for 25,000 tonnes per year but
> has operated at much higher levels (up to 200%)due to the shortage of
> processing capacity in our area. ?The process is reliable, generally
> operates at 96 to 100% online time, 24 hours per day, 5 days per
> week. ?The digester has operated 7 years without interuption. ?The
> plant had two odour complaints in 2008, not entirely related to
> facility operations.
>
> An interesting site to visit ishttp://
www.german-biogas-industry.com
> as many of the AD technologies have originated in Germany. ?There is
> almost unlimited information available on the subject of AD.
>
> Europe is way ahead of North America in farm and food AD projects.
> The US has lots of farm based digesters. ?I believe Toronto will have
> Unfortunately, to get the complete document they charge $75. ?The full
> document runs to several hundred pages and is a complete record of the
> entire history of Toronto's development program to collect and process
> SSO. ?The document goes into great detail regarding the required
> design of the proposed facility.
>
> On Apr 15, 8:55 am, Lynne Pledger
>
> ...
>
> read more »