Electricity from Bio Gas

[vijay yvcs]

Hello Friend

Im back again with some more queries and clarifications, which I am pretty sure this intellectual Group will be able to address.

At Puttaparthy, we have diary farm of 500-600 cattle.
The Total Quantum of Cowdung that is collected (net ) every day is about 2.5 tractor loads equalling to around 5-6 tons every day.
We have 2 Nos of *5 cu.m Bio gas plants that was set up around 15 years and they have been defunct since then. Thanks to the technology and awareness then.
Today we have got back One of the plants that is  a 85 cum plant ready back into shape for using .

However, since the usage here is not much for cooking, we are trying to experiment to generate electricity from the Gas that is generated from this plant.

Could anyone help me in clarifying the following.

1.The input material as of now is only Cowdung. For 85cu.m plant how much of Cowdung per day has to be fed.
2. What will be the Quantum of Gas that will be generated every day. Some say it is 85 cu.m and some say 65 cu.m. Which of them is correct?
3.What will be the calorific value of the gas that is being produced.
4. Translating into lay man terms, the gas generated from this 85 cu.m plant can provide gas equivalent to how many LPG cylinders ( 14.2 kgs)
5.What is the translation of this Gas into Kilo Watt. That is to say how many kilo watts of power can be generated with one 85 cum plant.
6. What is will be slurry out put in terms of volume or kilos per day. If say 1 ton of cow dung is fed into the digester everday, then what will be the slurry output.
7.For generating electricity, a 15kvi genset has been procured from prakash gensets Agra. They claim that the gas generated from the plant can be directly fed into the gen set without any water remover or a scrubber. Is this advisable?
8.As I understand Carbon monoxide, Carbod di oxide, H2S, and water vapour and methane constitute this gas. And I feel it is essential to remove the water vapour and H2s inoder to get better quality of methane and to improve the efficiency of the Genset, else the corrosion due to H2s will take a toll on the Gen set. Please advice me if this is correct.
9.The cowdung that comes is mixed with dry grass and hay. Is it necessary to remove this material and mix opnly the pure cow dung with water before we let the mixture into the digester?
10. Is there any mechanical mixing plants for the inlet tanks?
11. Where can we procure the water remover and scrubber ? and how much do they cost?

thank you and looking forward for a  terrific discussions ahead

regards

--
Vijay Y.V.C.S
Executive Manager - Finance
Sri Sathya Sai Bhaktha Sahayak Sangh
Prasanthi Nilayam
Puttaparthy
Andhra Pradesh -515134

[Biome]

Dear All,
This is no query, this is also no giving advice. This is a small gesture to say that I am very happy to be part of this wonderful group which shares so much. I have been learning immensly form reading all the interactions in this group.
Thank you all.
Regards,
Chitra Vishwanath
PS Eagerly waiting for some answers to this post of Vijay!

--
=====================================
Biome Environmental Solutions Pvt Ltd,
No. 1022,  1st Floor, 6th Block
H.M.T. Layout, Vidyaranyapura,
Bangalore - 560 097.
Ph-  +91 80  41672790, +91 80 23644690
www.inika.com/chitra
www.rainwaterclub.org
http://biomesolutions.blogspot.com/

[Manu Sharma]

Dear Mr. Vijay,

Please find my replies below your questions:

1.The input material as of now is only Cowdung. For 85cu.m plant how much of Cowdung per day has to be fed.

Initially, you'll have to feed around 60 tons of cowdung for 30 days and then 2 tons / day. The formula is 0.04 m^3 for 1 kg of dung.

 

2. What will be the Quantum of Gas that will be generated every day. Some say it is 85 cu.m and some say 65 cu.m. Which of them is correct?

85 m^3

 

3.What will be the calorific value of the gas that is being produced.

1700 MJ (85 x 20)

4. Translating into lay man terms, the gas generated from this 85 cu.m plant can provide gas equivalent to how many LPG cylinders ( 14.2 kgs)

Approx 1.5 cylinders / day.

 

5.What is the translation of this Gas into Kilo Watt. That is to say how many kilo watts of power can be generated with one 85 cum plant.

You can run the generator for around 5hr / day. So that's about 62.5 kWh daily energy output.

 

6. What is will be slurry out put in terms of volume or kilos per day. If say 1 ton of cow dung is fed into the digester everday, then what will be the slurry output.

Slurry is the sum of feedstock and water. Water is always added in 1:1 ratio. So for 2 tons of cowdung, you'll use around 2250 litre of water and it'd generate around 4000 kg slurry. 
 

7.For generating electricity, a 15kvi genset has been procured from prakash gensets Agra. They claim that the gas generated from the plant can be directly fed into the gen set without any water remover or a scrubber. Is this advisable?

8.As I understand Carbon monoxide, Carbod di oxide, H2S, and water vapour and methane constitute this gas. And I feel it is essential to remove the water vapour and H2s inoder to get better quality of methane and to improve the efficiency of the Genset, else the corrosion due to H2s will take a toll on the Gen set. Please advice me if this is correct.

These gensets are designed to use biogas as it is. The quality of the generator wouldn't deteriorate but of course the efficiency will be lower if you use biogas with only 50-60% methane content as opposed to 95% methane after scrubbing.

For such small quantity, purchasing scrubber is not advised as it will not be economical. It costs around Rs.1.5 Lakh and has the capacity to process 100-200 m^3 of biogas / day. If you revive the second defunt plant as well, you might consider purchasing a scrubber but it's not needed for the generator you have.

Please share the model # and price of the generator purchased from Prakash Gensets.

 

9.The cowdung that comes is mixed with dry grass and hay. Is it necessary to remove this material and mix opnly the pure cow dung with water before we let the mixture into the digester?

Cowdung, should not be mixed with dry grass and hay. If you like, you can add other organic material to it like green grass or food waste but not dry organic material.

 

10. Is there any mechanical mixing plants for the inlet tanks?

You may use a vaccum pump or slurry pump. Vaccuum pump pumps air into the feedstock material that pushes it into air and back into the tank mixing it thoroughly. But generally speaking, human power is more advisable for the process of mixing the feedstock. You will save on the electricity if manual labor is employed.
 

Thanks,
Manu

[Manu Sharma]

On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 8:31 AM, Biome <chitravi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am very happy to be part of this wonderful group which shares so much. I have been learning immensly form reading all the interactions in this group.

Dear Chitra,

I'm glad you're enjoying the discussions and finding them of use. This is precisely the purpose of this group. I'd encourage everyone to contribute to discussions and share their knowledge.

Thanks,
Manu

[Ajay Chandak]

My replies in Green.

 

Prof. Ajay Chandak.

----- Original Message -----

From: vijay yvcs

To: green...@googlegroups.com

Sent: 02 August, 2008 8:21 AM

Subject: [Green-India] Electricity from Bio Gas

Hello Friend

Im back again with some more queries and clarifications, which I am pretty sure this intellectual Group will be able to address.

At Puttaparthy, we have diary farm of 500-600 cattle.
The Total Quantum of Cowdung that is collected (net ) every day is about 2.5 tractor loads equalling to around 5-6 tons every day.
We have 2 Nos of *5 cu.m Bio gas plants that was set up around 15 years and they have been defunct since then. Thanks to the technology and awareness then.
Today we have got back One of the plants that is  a 85 cum plant ready back into shape for using .

However, since the usage here is not much for cooking, we are trying to experiment to generate electricity from the Gas that is generated from this plant.

Could anyone help me in clarifying the following.

1.The input material as of now is only Cowdung. For 85cu.m plant how much of Cowdung per day has to be fed. : Approx. 1700 kg of cowdung.
2. What will be the Quantum of Gas that will be generated every day. Some say it is 85 cu.m and some say 65 cu.m. Which of them is correct? Gas generation will depend on the usage pattern. If you are using twice a day then it will be practically 65 CUM as utilising full capacity may not be possible. However if you are using gas in say 4 intervals of 6 hrs each or continiously then from the same capacity plant you can even get more than 100 CUM.  Of course proportional increase in input feed material will be required and part of slurry will have to be recycled.
3.What will be the calorific value of the gas that is being produced. Approx. 4000 kCal/CUM.
4. Translating into lay man terms, the gas generated from this 85 cu.m plant can provide gas equivalent to how many LPG cylinders ( 14.2 kgs): One CUM of biogas is approx. 400 to 450 gms equivalent of LPG.  So 85 CUM will be somewhere 30-35 kg of LPG.
5.What is the translation of this Gas into Kilo Watt. That is to say how many kilo watts of power can be generated with one 85 cum plant. Existing machines normally consume 1.2 to 1.5 CUM of gas for generating one kWh.
6. What is will be slurry out put in terms of volume or kilos per day. If say 1 ton of cow dung is fed into the digester everday, then what will be the slurry output. For one ton of cowdung slurry output will be 4 tons. However you are expected to recycle major portion of water. Common practice for bigger plants these days is that this slurry is taken over sand beds and water dripping through is collected in chamber and recycled to make fresh slurry at input chamber. This also helps in more gas generation as there are some volatile solids in the slurry coming out which are not fully digested are put back in the system for further digestion.
7.For generating electricity, a 15kvi genset has been procured from prakash gensets Agra. They claim that the gas generated from the plant can be directly fed into the gen set without any water remover or a scrubber. Is this advisable? I do not see any problem with water vapor, only problem might be H2S.  Just passing gas through chamber over rusty iron cuttings (scrap from lathe, drilling machines etc.) takes care of H2S. Not a big issue. After use this Iron oxide when exposed to air for 2-3 days will be regenerate and can be used again.
8.As I understand Carbon monoxide, Carbod di oxide, H2S, and water vapour and methane constitute this gas. And I feel it is essential to remove the water vapour and H2s inoder to get better quality of methane and to improve the efficiency of the Genset, else the corrosion due to H2s will take a toll on the Gen set. Please advice me if this is correct. If we can remove water vapor, CO2 then definitely the gas going to the engine is richer and will increase efficiency of the engine.
9.The cowdung that comes is mixed with dry grass and hay. Is it necessary to remove this material and mix opnly the pure cow dung with water before we let the mixture into the digester? This has to be removed. Hay and dry grass take very very long time to digest. Actually this material floats on the slurry in the biogas plant and connections to the inlet and outlet of biogas plants are at the bottom and hence there is no mechanism to remove this floating material. Over a period it forms a blanket and seizes biogas performance.
10. Is there any mechanical mixing plants for the inlet tanks? Some mechanical blade stirrer in the tank will work.  In one of the plants I have seen people using compressed air as well for agitation.
11. Where can we procure the water remover and scrubber ? and how much do they cost? H2S scrubber is simple to construct locally. It just needs one big pipe filled with iron scrap from machining shop and with connections for gas at both ends. This gas flowing over the iron oxide gets scrubbed. Every week one can take out this iron scrap and expose it to atmosphere and fill in with new scrap. Two such sets can be used intermittently.

Regards,

 

Prof. Ajay Chandak.

[vijay yvcs]

Dear Manu and friends

Thanx a ton for the one stop solution that has been given. I am immensely confident to take this project ahead with all your support. Manu shall give the generator set details ASAP.

Chitra, hello had met you recently during this summer. Hope you are enjoying our discussions. Personally appreciate all the green initiatives you have been taking up. Kudos to you and all the team of Green India

will come back with more.

regards

vijay

[Deepa Gupta]

Hi Manu and all,

 

I've read this post, and am not technically savvy with biogas plants so couldn't keep up with it.

 

My grandparents provide donations to a gaushala near their town. I want to propose that the owners of the gaushala use the cowdung from the cows for a biogas plant to generate electricity for themselves (which they do not have) and for the surrounding village people.

 

Where do I start in terms of understanding how biogas plants work (in more detail so I understand the implementation process), and where to source one?

Thanks,

Deepa

--
Deepa Gupta

Executive Director
Indian Youth Climate Network
e: de...@iycn.in
m: 61 4 0314 8052

www.iycn.in
www.whatswiththeclimate.org
www.youthclimatecoalition.org

[Manu Sharma]

Hi Deepa,

I'd need to know the size of the dairy. Electricity generation from
biogas is currently viable only for large plants. So, if they have
feedstock (cowdung) availability in the range of the plant we talked
about (2 tons or more) then it's a good idea. Otherwise it may not be
possible right now.

The smallest generator offered by the manufacturer Mr. Vijay
mentioned, and the one they're using, is of 12 kW capacity. For a
single household, you need a generator of around 1-2 kW. That said,
they do have plans to offer smaller generators (1.5-15 kW) too in the
near future.

Apart from this, one can also use biogas for cooking / water heating
applications as well. As to implementation, it's best to work with a
consultant or an experienced installer of biogas plants.

Thanks,
Manu

[vijay yvcs]

Deepa
I agree with manu.
Producing electricity from cow dung is viable only on a large scale.
Moreover I still agree with the fact that bio gas is best utilized for cooking and heating. Because, in the heating exercise, the energy that is produced is used in the same form that is Thermal energy form. Also using gobar gas for heating and cooking is a age old proven technique, which people have forgotten and stopped using it over a period of time.
On the other hand generating electricity from gas is a little more complicated. In this case the thermal energy is being converted into the kinetic energy to generate a spark. in the engine. In this process of converting thermal energy to kinetic energy there is some energy and efficiency loss. Moreover the engine has to be made in such a way that it can take this gas. It is in only these days that such engines are coming into vogue.
Essentially to get 100 percent good electricity, one has to feed pure methane gas. Essentially gobar gas consists of 50-60 percent methane, and the rest 40 is constituted with carbon di oxide , carbon monoxide, water vapour and Hydrogen sulphide ( a pungent gas).
Removal of these gases in order to get meythane in tis purest form is expensive. Lot of experiments are still going on this area in IIT Delhi by Prof subba Rao.
I am looking forward to see a day when all our rural areas will become electricity banks, converting gobar gas and feeding our Grid with electricity.
 It is possible!!!

regards

vijay

[mahesh shelar]

Dear manu can u please sent a link of prakash genset delhi i understand they manufacture producer gas as well as biogas engines mahesh Prof Mahesh Shelar M.Tech Energy Systems Engg Certified Energy Auditor Department of Mechanical Engg KKW Institute of Engg Education and Research NASHIK 9822052351 --- On Sat, 2/8/08, Manu Sharma <orang...@gmail.com> wrote:

---

Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now

[Manu Sharma]

On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 12:33 AM, mahesh shelar <mahesh...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

Dear manu can u please sent a link of prakash genset delhi i understand they manufacture producer gas as well as biogas engines mahesh

Dear Prof Mahesh Shelar,

They are based in Agra. You'll find their contact info here

http://www.prakash-india.com/contact.htm

Thanks,
Manu

[mahesh shelar]

thanks manu

mahesh Prof Mahesh Shelar M.Tech Energy Systems Engg Certified Energy Auditor Department of Mechanical Engg KKW Institute of Engg Education and Research NASHIK 9822052351

--- On Sun, 3/8/08, Manu Sharma <orang...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Manu Sharma <orang...@gmail.com> Subject: [Green-India] Re: Electricity from Bio Gas To: green...@googlegroups.com

Connect with friends all over the world. Get Yahoo! India Messenger.

[Ajay Chandak]

Today I could successfully test and run a biogas generator of 600 watts. Actually we were looking for such small generators for decentalised power, especially for tribal areas, where 20-30 CFLs connected to such a small plant can light small colony (Padas as they call). This looks very promising now. All earlier generators I came across were bigger than 5 kVA. Bigger generators mean higher gas consumption which means higher capacity of biogas plant. We wanted small generator and I imported three such generators from China, had few problems initiatily as the manuals were in Chinese and the company was not cooperating for the queries we raised. After few hit and trials I realised that the biogas pressure required for the generator may be low. Last week we added quite a lot of load on the floating drum to generate pressure equivalent to 400 mm of water column and now we got the generator going smoothly. I will take trial for a month or so and then will try to implement it for energy security project in tribal area, somewhere in Narmada valley. I am really excited with the possible use of such generators in the tribal areas.

 

Regards,

 

Prof. Ajay Chandak.

[Manu Sharma]

Ajay Chandak <chan...@sancharnet.in> wrote:

Today I could successfully test and run a biogas generator of 600 watts.

Dear Prof. Chandak,

This is excellent news. Congratulations! Successfully implemented, small scale biogas has tremendous potential in rural as well as urban areas. Kudos to you for making a start.

Do update us at the end of the trial and provide more details about pricing etc.

Thanks,
Manu

[vijay yvcs]

kudos Ajay...
Very happy to hear that news. This will be a break through if all the small houses in the rural areas can manufacture their own electricity.
Congrats once again.

For some more food for thought Please go through this article

http://www.idosi.org/wasj/wasj1(2)/12.pdf

I was interested to know how to remove the carbon di oxide and H2S from our bio gas plant. This article gives a idea of sending the bio gas through absorption in water  treatment. It also claims that this process is cost effective and can be easiy made to use. Can anyone elaborate and explain how to do this in lay mans terms.

thank you

regards

vijay

[Ajay Chandak]

I don't think its a big achievement on my side, there is no contribution from my side for the development effort. I purchased readymade generator from China, it seems common there.

 

 My contribution is to source and risk initial investment of importing this stuff, almost shooting in dark, good part is that it worked.

Will get back to the group with details about the trials and cost details.

 

Regarding query of Mr. Vijay, the simplest scrubbing methodology is to make a vertical cylinder (8" dia. PVC pipe with end caps will do), fill it up with gravels of around 1.5" to 2" size for 3/4th of the depth. From top give a shower of water and from bottom inject biogas and drain the water from bottom and take the gas out from top. Draining level at bottom should be such that it is not more than the pressure of the gas, otherwise the gas will not flow. Such arrangement permits close intimate contact of water with gas and CO2 is dissolved.

Regards,

 

Prof. Ajay Chandak.

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Manu Sharma

To: green...@googlegroups.com

Sent: 04 August, 2008 11:35 PM

Subject: [Green-India] Re: Electricity from Bio Gas

[Manu Sharma]

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:16 AM, Ajay Chandak <chan...@sancharnet.in> wrote:

I don't think its a big achievement on my side, there is no contribution from my side for the development effort. I purchased readymade generator from China, it seems common there.

 

Your contribution is thinking along the lines that went against the "conventional wisdom" which I expressed here just two days ago - that electricity from biogas doesn't work on small scale. That is usually half the work done.

As Google CEO Eric Schmidt once remarked:

One of the most wonderful things about the world is that conventional wisdom is often wrong, and I have always delighted in showing people that there is a new or better way to accomplish something.

I should remember that next time. 

According my very rough calculations, a household would need about 20 kg of food waste per day to generate 200 kWh per month in electricity from biogas. Would you say that's a correct estimate? If not, what according to you would be the quantity for that much energy output and how large a plant would be needed to generate it?

Thanks,
Manu

[Ajay Chandak]

With 20 kg per day of food waste one can generate 50 kWh of power. Here I mean food waste from hotels etc. If it is a flour waste from flour mill then 20 kg of flour waste can generate 8 kWh per day.

One photograph of generator in action is attached.

 

Ajay Chandak.

----- Original Message -----

From: Manu Sharma

To: green...@googlegroups.com

Sent: 05 August, 2008 12:40 AM

Subject: [Green-India] Re: Electricity from Bio Gas

[Manu Sharma]

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 1:21 AM, Ajay Chandak <chan...@sancharnet.in> wrote:

With 20 kg per day of food waste one can generate 50 kWh of power.

Thanks for the picture. Is that 50 kWh per day or per month? It seems too high for per day output and too low for monthly output.

Manu

[Shireesh Kedare]

This is important, Ajay. please document meticulously your test runs in the coming month.

 

Regards,

- Shireesh
______________________________
Dr. Shireesh B. Kedare


 

[keva...@aol.com]

Dear Group,

I have been following this discussion and have a similar situation, but on a larger scale. I have access to about 25 TPD of bio waste.  I am exploring gasification technology, which I have been told involves less maintenance and higher energy yields than digestion technology.

We are also talking about processing human solids and we have a lot of mixed plastics that we don't have easy recycling for. The gasifier people claim all of those issues make us excellent gasifier candidates.

For example, what about failure rates? If I'm using a digester with a tank full of food wastes and human waste solids, and we have a problem, I don't know who would clean out that tank of mess to start again.

Even if it runs successfuly, there will be the remnants that will be a mess of a job to clean out. The gasification technology appears to produce burnable gas, distilled water, and some ash that can be used in concrete.

I am not affiliated with any technology. I am trying to decide what is best for my needs. Here is a link of one group we are considering. What do you think?

http://www.energydynamicscorp.com/html/technology.html

Thanks,

Kevin

---

It's time to go back to school! Get the latest trends and gadgets that make the grade on AOL Shopping.

[Nainish Bapna]

I am interested in learning more about adoption of gasification technology in India.  I know there are small wood gasification systems, but beyond? Does anyone have any details on this?

I notice with Energy Dynamics it can use MSW as feedstock, but would finding a guaranteed supply for a good sized (read economical) plant be difficult as there is not much organised MSW collection in India!

Gasification is gaining traction, but most 'gasification' technologies are actually plasma gasification or incinerators, which have high parasitic loads or cannot operate on a wide range of feedstocks and be WID-compliant.

Thanks
nainish

2008/8/5 <keva...@aol.com>

[Ajay Chandak]

20 kg of food waste per day will generate 50 kWh per month. A shed less than 2 kWh per day.

Regards,

 

Ajay Chandak.

----- Original Message -----

From: Manu Sharma

To: green...@googlegroups.com

Sent: 05 August, 2008 2:33 AM

Subject: [Green-India] Re: Electricity from Bio Gas

[Wolverine]

Dear All
I think in across Europe and NA companies are developing innovative
waste management techniques.Currently they are marketing Fuel Cells
that can run directly on biogas as well.I enquired and the smallest
rating that they offer is 250KW.Though it cannot qualify as DDG
system , but it can surely act as viable system for large population
villages/ suburban areas in cities.My question is pertaining to its
comparison with traditional Biogas Gasification methods ( not cost ,,I
know it cannot be compared...) but on other parameters.What are the
groups thoughts on this ?
Thanks

Ajinkya

[ritz]

Hi All,

I am new to this forum and was interested in reading all the messages
in this forum.

I had a question on the amount of cow dung required to produce
electricity. In one of the msgs posted here it is said that about 65
kwh a day can be got from about 2 tonnes of cow dung a day i.e. 0.04
m3 of biogas for 1 kg of cow dung.

There was another article at http://www.greenpowerindia.org/Biogas.htm
where it is hinted that 1.2 kg of cow dung produces 1 m3 of biogas.

The two nos are quite different. Can someone elaborate which is more
feasible.

Also, My Vijay - could you please provide some nos in terms of the
viability of the electricity generation w.r.t. your total investments.

I am looking at starting a dairy plant with about 100 or so cattle
heads and was interested to find if it is economical to start
electricity generation on that scale.

Has anyone tried to use it instead of CNG for vehicles?

Ritesh

On Aug 5, 6:47 pm, Wolverine <joshi.ajin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear All
> I think in across Europe and NA companies are developing innovative
> waste management techniques.Currently they are marketing Fuel Cells

> that can run directly onbiogasas well.I enquired and the smallest

> rating that they offer is 250KW.Though it cannot qualify as DDG
> system , but it can surely act as viable system for large population
> villages/ suburban areas in cities.My question is pertaining to its

> comparison with traditionalBiogasGasification methods ( not cost ,,I

[Jerry Scovel]

Ritz,

I grew up on a 125 head dairy farm. It has been 43 years since I left so I
cannot give exact details. Our digestor was about 50' diameter and about 12'
deep. It produced enough methane to heat our water, operate an ammonia
cooling system, run two large yard lights (mantle lamps) as well as provide
fuel for two Stanley Steamer tractors and three modified 36 hp VW
automobiles. We never ran out of gas.

We never used the gas to produce electricity since we made electricity from
the windmill and did not need to bother with making it from the gas. The gas
is far more efficient if you can find ways to use it without converting it
to electricity first. A well designed system operates without much cost or
human intervention.

Jerry.

[Manu Sharma]

On 15 November 2012 09:49, Peeyush Verma <pvnittt...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

I am deeply delighted to see this group. The data given is of enormous value and help those who are keen to work in this field. Since its an old post can you please confirm that the group is still active or if I have some query, can I contact you.

Dear Peeyush,

Thank you for your kind words. I'm glad you found the information useful. It's best to address any query you may have to the entire group. 

Thanks,

Manu