Keep It In

[dkrok]

Situation: Team A, up by several goals, brings the ball into the
attack area with less than 2 min in Q4. Ref's announce "Keep It In"
and rule 6-10 Stalling is in effect. Team B checks ball carrier, a
loose ball results within the attack box, and in the scrum, both teams
add impetus to the loose ball which eventually leaks out of the attack
box.

The Call Made: Due to the Team B touches and impetus placed on the
loose ball, no stall offense is called when the ball exits the attack
box, Team A recovers and is given a new 10 second count. The stall
warning is given again when Team A gets in the attack box again. Team
B's Coach disagrees with this application of 6-10.

The Rule: According to rule 6-10 Art. 2, the last sentence states
". . .stalling shall be called if the ball leaves the goal area in any
manner other than as a result of a shot on goal or a touch by the
defensive team".

Was this the correct call?

[cpe...@gmail.com]

The key in this scenario is "which team last touched the ball prior to
leaving the box?" If attacking Team A touched it ...delay of
game ... If defensive Team B touched it ...Team A has 10 sec to
return to the box and "keep it in".
The loose ball scrums and the fact that both teams touch the ball has
no bearing to the call ..it is the last team that touched that
counts. .... So I am reading in to the comments below that Team B was
last to touch ....therefore ...GOOD CALL!

[greatc...@aol.com]

Interesting enough.. consider the stick check where the D man never touches the ball-only the stick. Expect some argument. Several ways it can be handled.. obviuosly one can lie and say the D touched it. But then you discount the great play by the defender.( Any other thoughts on this.) You have to be confident in your call because one coach will disagree and argue, so you must have a strong understanding of the rule. I agree that the last to touch the ball as it goes out of the attack box determines the call. Remember it could be a play-on  but only if the D has a QUICK chance to pick it up and go. Don't let too much time be wasted if the D cannot readily pick up the loose ball.

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[cpe...@gmail.com]

Agree 100%, The stick check example below still holds ..because
Attacking Team A was the last team to touch the ball, therefore Team A
would be be guilty of the the delay of game.

On May 15, 1:32 pm, greatcall...@aol.com wrote:
> Interesting enough.. consider the stick check where the D man never touches the ball-only the stick. Expect some argument. Several ways it can be handled.. obviuosly one can lie and say the D touched it. But then you discount the great play by the defender.(?Any other thoughts on this.) You have to be confident in your call because one coach will disagree and argue, so you must have a strong understanding of the rule. I agree that the last to touch the ball as it goes out of the attack box determines the call. Remember it could be a play-on? but only if the D has a QUICK chance to pick it up and go. Don't let too much time be wasted if the D cannot readily pick up the loose ball.

>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cpet...@gmail.com
> To: Great Lakes Lacrosse Officials Association <great-lakes-lacrosse-...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Fri, 15 May 2009 11:09 am
> Subject: Re: Keep It In
>
> The key in this scenario is "which team last touched the ball prior to
> leaving the box?"  If attacking Team A touched it ...delay of
> game  ...  If defensive Team B touched it ...Team A has 10 sec to
> return to the box and "keep it in".
> The loose ball scrums and the fact that both teams touch the ball has
> no bearing to the call ..it is the last team that touched that
> counts. .... So I am reading in to the comments below that Team B was
> last to touch ....therefore ...GOOD CALL!
>

> On May 15, 10:12?am, dkrok <dck...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Situation: ?Team A, up by several goals, brings the ball into the
> > attack area with less than 2 min in Q4. ?Ref's announce "Keep It In"
> > and rule 6-10 Stalling is in effect. ?Team B checks ball carrier, a

> > loose ball results within the attack box, and in the scrum, both teams
> > add impetus to the loose ball which eventually leaks out of the attack
> > box.
>

> > The Call Made: ?Due to the Team B touches and impetus placed on the

> > loose ball, no stall offense is called when the ball exits the attack

> > box, Team A recovers and is given a new 10 second count. ?The stall
> > warning is given again when Team A gets in the attack box again. ?Team

> > B's Coach disagrees with this application of 6-10.
>

> > The Rule: ?According to rule 6-10 Art. 2, the last sentence states

> > ". . .stalling shall be called if the ball leaves the goal area in any
> > manner other than as a result of a shot on goal or a touch by the
> > defensive team".
>
> > Was this the correct call?

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[gwpatt]

I'm not sure we want to call this exactly like a "last to touch" OOB
call. Consider: If defense propels the ball toward out of the box
and offense attempts to scoop or sweep it back in, but it goes out
anyway, we can't call this stalling, can we? However, if OOB, it's
tough luck for offense.

> > ~----~------~--~---- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[cpe...@gmail.com]

Rule 6-10 says "stalling shall be called if the ball leaves the goal
area in any manner other than a shot on goal or a touch by the
defensive team."
In your example below, we clearly should call stalling if the offense
is last to touch.

[Bob K]

I would treat the call more like a shot going out of bounds than a
loose ball going out of bounds. "A touch by the defensive team" is
not the same as "last touched by the defensive team". If the ball
goes out of the box because of impetus given to it by the defensive
team, then I would not consider an attempt to keep it in by the
offensive team a violation if it deflected off of their stick and out
of the box. Just like if a shot carems off a player or stick and goes
out of bounds; its a judgement call and remains a shot.

As to having the ball checked out of the stick and the box by the D
without actually touching the ball I do not see an issue. This is the
same call as if the O was legally checked out of the box; stalling.

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[cpe...@gmail.com]

I kicked this situation up the the National Rules Forum, the response
was:
NCAA says ..Rule 6-11
"Exception: If the ball leaves the attack area due to a deflection off
the defense,
either team may recover"
That seems pretty clear: last touched, not who caused it to go out.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For reference, below was the specific post that I made:
We are having a healthy debate locally about a variation of this
stalling issue. A stalling warning has been issued, if the defense
(Team B) kicks the ball but the ball touches a player from Team A in
anyway just prior to exiting the box (for example, let's say it hits
the heel of the unknowing A1 ...no impetus, only a touch).

Some say:
1) No stalling: "A touch by the defensive team" is

not the same as "last touched by the defensive team". If the ball goes
out of the box because of impetus given to it by the defensive team,
then I would not consider an attempt to keep it in by the offensive
team a violation if it deflected off of their stick and out of the
box. Just like if a shot carems off a player or stick and goes out of
bounds; its a judgement call and remains a shot."

2) Stalling: "The intent of the rule is who last touched the ball"

What say you?