Melodyne Keygen Team Air Host Id
Nhyiraba Valentin
Hi folks, I've read a ton of news online, but still can't confirm: does Ventura and Logic Pro 10.8 finally support ARA natively in Apple Silicon? This is required for Melodyne and VocAlign to work more quickly when capturing tracks. Up to now, you've had to run them under Rosetta to make ARA work, but that sucks. Can anyone confirm if ARA fully works now natively? Thanks!
It's not a case of "neglect", it's a case of finding a solution to make plugins that now run completely isolated from Logic somehow "see into" Logic to access it's audio data (which is the technique ARA plugins use). Basically, the mechanic that ARA uses when the plugin is run inside the DAW, is no longer available, so a different solution to implement this functionality would need to be developed.
Because it's just a guess, we have no idea of who is working on what, or how much engineering is required, or how long something takes, or the technical challenges. The fact we don't have a solution released yet *could be* down to neglect, but there also *could be* other reasons. I try to generally not decide which reason I prefer must be the reality - if I don't know the reason, I tend to leave it open - but I do give devs the benefit of the doubt a lot of the time.
I mean, many people have called the sidechain latency issues with similar terms, and then it magically shows up as a fix. We don't know whether someone got to that bug yesterday, fixed a code typo and it worked again, or whether they had to significantly re-engineer the audio engine to support the required fix and the work and testing took a long time.
Ok - here's a general outline of my understanding of this. On Intel machines (or running under Rosetta on Apple silicon machines, which is running Intel code), plugins run just as they have in Logic for years - they run *inside the Logic process* - essentially, in simplistic terms, their code becomes part of Logic - and if they crash, Logic gets taken down at the same time.
Because those plugins run inside of Logic, they have access to Logic's internal memory through the ARA feature, which is where the audio data lives - they can essentially "look into" where the audio data is for the track they are on, and thus can display it instantly. This is the benefit of the ARA tech - previously, you had to essentially "record" the audio in realtime into the plugin, and then have the plugin play that audio back from the plugin, which is slow, and has other consequences you'll be aware of it you've used Melodyne in the past.
Under Apple silicon, the way AudioUnit plugins are run on macOS has changed significantly. Logic *no longer runs the plugins directly*. Instead, Logic creates a window, but then hands off to macOS to run the plugin, which it does inside a separate process to Logic called "AUHostingService" (or "AUHostingCompatibilityService" for Intel-only plugins), which has a variety of benefits, including if a plugin crashes, it doesn't/can't crash Logic with it, and it lets Logic running natively be able to seamlessly use both Apple silicon, and Intel-only plugins in the same project, which is extremely helpful during the Apple silicon transition period, or for old plugins that won't ever get an Apple silicon native version.
This means the plugins are isolated from, and run *outside* of Logic. They can no longer "look into" Logic's memory to get access to the audio data, because they are not "inside" Logic. Logic can't even get the name of a plugin that crashed in AUHostingService, because there is no communication between them, other than the AudioUnit system defined input/output buffers, and other required event messaging.
In fact, macOS has pretty strict security policies that prevent processes accessing the memory space of other applications, by design, for generally good reasons. And as ARA plugins can't get at the audio data, ARA cannot work, so you have to go back to the old method of recording the audio across the audio input/output buffers as usual.
In order to restore ARA functionality, some new mechanic must be developed, that Logic, any ARA plugins, and AUHostingService have to be updated to support, and those three different development teams have to work together to do this, from my understanding and other comments from people who are in a position to know. It's possible, for example, that the Logic team have done the work in Logic necessary to support this, but are waiting on the macOS team to update the system AUHostingService, as part of general macOS updates. Or it's possible that there is simply no way to enable ARA plugins to tunnel into Logic to get at it's audio data, it might be a technical limitation of the new plugin hosting system. We don't know - all we know as of yet that it's simply a feature that hasn't shipped to date.
Thanks des99 for this excellent and clear explanation. I figured this was essentially the issue. We're all used to how advancements in platforms often incur breaks with previous features. In this case, the infrastructure of Apple Silicon has given us greater app security at the loss of the convenience and efficiency of ARA-enabled processes. We can only hope that vendors like Celemony and Sychro Arts are pressuring Apple for a solution, and that the popularity of Melodyne and VocAlign on Apple platforms should influence that progress. Otherwise, I currently have no strong reason to upgrade to Ventura and Logic Pro 10.8, as risks may outweigh returns.
Very good explanation!
ARA is one reason why I often work in Rosetta, as I use Melodyne a lot.
It's just so much faster and more convenient, you can move regions, cut, edit - everything is always in Melodyne.
However, I always make a bounce in place of the tracks with Melodyne before closing a project.
Unfortunately, Melodyne is occasionally unreliable, I often had Melodyne tracks without my edits after reopening projects, which is annoying.
Well, it seems there is little hope that this will ever work natively and well, too many parties need to pull together.
And Apple is unlikely to push this forward.
Thank you very very much @des99 for your extensive explanation which makes it all sensible and easy to understand. I must admit that same elicit my curiosity about your sources. Let me reiterate my gratefulness for your admirable generosity.
I did a clean install of Windows on my computer. I re-installed Vegas Pro 21 and upgraded to RX 10 standard from RX 8 Elements. I was surprised that none of the RX 10 features showed as plugins. Went back and forth with IZoptope and followed their troubleshooting process for 6 different things to try, but nothing worked. When I got back to them that none of the fixes worked, they sent me a message that included the following:
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"I was able to confirm that it does not show up in Vegas Pro which is not an officially supported host for RX 10, however, I will pass this information along to the team for future consideration. I do apologize for the inconvenience and recommend trying a different host, such as . . ."
The plugins do show in SoundForge 17 and Acid Pro 11, and the stand-alone RX 10 works fine. The VST paths are set correctly, so it just looks like the RX 10 VST3 plugins do not work with Vegas Pro 21.
That is a bit strange because the VST3 plugins featured in RX10 Elements are also VST3 plugins in RX10 Advanced and those same VST3 plugins do work in Vegas Pro 21. Maybe there's some coding difference with these plugins if sourced from RX10 Elements or Advanced.
I confirmed they are in the same VST3 directory. Not only that, but when rescanning for plug-ins, I can literally see the RX10 plug-in names display -- they just never show up in V21 as plug-ins for me.
Although they have a no-refund policy, the folks who sell the Izotope products were kind enough to cancel my license and refund my purchase. I just don't have time right now to troubleshoot, but do hope one day to re-purchase and hopefully get it working since I'd like to benefit from the new versions of their tools. I realize I could do the round-trip approach to process clip audio files in the external RX10 interface, but it's not my preferred workflow at the moment.
I have RX10 advanced, I do not have an issue with RX10 and Vegas 21, they show up (apart from those which are not available as plugin like wind reduction) and can be used in Vegas 21, even the RX9 (which I did not uninstall) shows up.
@bitman ... RX9 Adv is not installed on my system - only RX10 Adv, I don't think it would be an RX9 "ghost" in the registry because late last year I upgraded the M.2 SSD C drive to a 2TB M.2 SSD and re-installed Windows 11, so only RX10 Adv has even been installed on the current C drive Windows 11 installation.
It's curious as to why basic RXVST3 plugins work well in Vegas Pro 21 when those plugins come from RX10 Adv but not from RX10 Elements. I wonder if the plugins from earlier versions of Elements that worked in Vegas Pro were VST2 plugins rather than VST3 plugins. I think that RX10 is the first RX version that no longer has VST2 plugins so it might be that its the Elements VST3 plugins that are not compatible with Vegas Pro.
Hi everyone and thank you for reporting those RX 10 problems. We have been looking into this issue and we will try to get to the bottom of this. We are actively trying to figure out what is going on there and resolve any issues on our side as soon as possible. There seems to be something rather strange with RX 10, which we struggle to reproduce consistently, since with a clean installation of RX 10 (and VST rescan if needed), the plugins are found and work in VEGAS in all our tests so far. Izotope do provide a number of other supporting dlls, which, I believe, can get in a rather messy state - if one has multiple versions of the plugin, or some update do not run cleanly, so that the version of those dlls do not match the VST3 somehow. This is so far the only way we have been able to reproduce the issue and sadly, there is not much on our side to be done about this. But, we will continue looking into the issue and try to resolve it. Thank you
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