Re: MANTRAV FRAUD (The new Club Mancha)

[Lex Thoonen]

davvegci:

dasist – I am not sure whether you represent Mantrav or Club Mancha or both, as you also chose to hide your identity. 

My purpose in posting about Mantrav and Club Mancha is to help prevent more holidaymakers having their holidays ruined by booking accommodation at Club Mancha Sanctum.

As for my posts being useless, if my posts on this forum help prevent one holidaymaker from making the mistake other holidaymakers have made when booking Club Mancha Sanctum, then I don’t feel my posts have been useless.

You are entitled to your opinion as I am. What I have stated on this forum is fact, not gossip, anyone can check what I have posted, all the information is on the internet.

Try reading the reviews on Trip Advisor for example or maybe these people are just gossips too?

No doubt Mantrav and Club Mancha will continue to defend themselves, after all they have a reputation to try and protect.

I think enough has now been said on this forum to allow holidaymakers to decide whether or not to book the Club Mancha Sanctum resort and whether or not to book their holiday through Mantrav.

[Lex Thoonen]

KTM:

Confirmed today: Mancha does not operate in St. Valentin and my voucher was not accepted. Could not reach anybody on number on voucher and cover letter.
Worst experiance EVER I had when traveling!

[Lex Thoonen]

davvegci:

KTM wrote:
Confirmed today: Mancha does not operate in St. Valentin and my voucher was not accepted. Could not reach anybody on number on voucher and cover letter.
Worst experiance EVER I had when traveling!

Sorry to hear about your problems with Club Mancha KTM.

There are at least two members of GCI who are posting in defense of Mantrav and Club Mancha, maybe they would like to explain what happened to your booking?

[Lex Thoonen]

dasist (malcolm hardy):

KTM has no name, it is an account which was only registered 6 hours ago, on Tripadvisor anyone can do the same (with fake hotmail email address which could be registered in 1 minute), check all the Tripadvisor saga by yourself by searching "Tripadvisor complaints" in google and you will see all the businesses affected, articles in national press and BBC programmes about Tripadvisor. You will see how untrustworthy this is just like many other sources on the Internet which you claim are. We will investigate this complain on Tripadvisor thanks for pointing out. As far as Mantrav/Mancha concern anyone can post anything here with no identity revealed, how do we know if it wasn't you??! You base your allegations on untrostworthy sources, you are not one of the customers and never been, what bar do you own in Gran Canaria? You are Dave who is living in there and we have your photograph, what you are doing here is illegal, you will obviously never been a customer and have no intentions to do so other than to spread lies. We have people going to Gran Canaria next week who will be going around the Yumbo Centre with your photograph asking who this person is and where to find you. Club Mancha will be renovated, it will open as a gay resort once all the legal problems been resolved. Hopefully this next week.
Never at any time has it been advertised that it will be renovated by the, what was going to be the opening date 1st November 2011.

[Lex Thoonen]

KTM:

KTM has name and it is a human who had bad bad bad experiance today. Sent you priv msg. Would like to talk to you.

[Lex Thoonen]

davvegci:

I have said enough about this, I will make no more postings.

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex (that's me!):

dasist, I'm Lex Thoonen, owner of Gran Canaria Info, this very website. As far as I'm concerned, the only one who has been showing illegal activity on this forum so far are you, as the following is clearly a threat:

You are Dave who is living in there and we have your photograph, what you are doing here is illegal, you will obviously never been a customer and have no intentions to do so other than to spread lies. We have people going to Gran Canaria next week who will be going around the Yumbo Centre with your photograph asking who this person is and where to find you.

If this ever turns out to be more than a hollow and very stupid remark, I will take legal actions against you, mind my words.

For everybody else: you are as free as you want to write down your opinions and share your experiences here, or on any other website. Don't let yourself be intimidated by stupid threats. 

You have to be quite blind to believe this whole thread is a personal rant of somebody against Mantrav.

And Dasists, your attitude on this forum is provoking me to go out and get some first hand experiences and make a nice video about it. That is by the way not a threat, just something I might really do. In that case, you don't have to ask 'who's behind it', it will be me and you're not going to like what that video could do. 

Maybe it's an idea to sort out your stuff, stop threatening people and start apologizing for the shit you've created. Obviously, you don't have to do this, but to what result will that lead for your business you think?

Good luck with making wise decisions from now on.

Lex

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

On mantrav's website, they say this:

www.mantrav.co.uk/destination/gran-canaria-spain/club-mancha/

Club Mancha is located only 60m from the Yumbo Centre. This one bedroom bungalow complex, some with double beds and some twin. Full bathroom, WC and shower. The kitchen area has an electric kettle, toaster, coffee maker, microwave oven, iron and ironing board, ..television in every bungalow. Each bungalow has safe deposit box (for a small charge), there is a private sun terrace with tables and chairs. Heated outdoor swimming pool with plenty of sun loungers, restaurant and the pool-side bar providing drinks and snacks.
The bungalows are not yet renovated and the above does not reflect every bungalow.
For live availability and to book please visit Club Mancha web site direct

That link (to www.clubmancha.com) produces a 404

On Mantrav's page you can still book it though. (At the time of writing.)

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

Are there any more 'victims' on Gran Canaria right now? Please send me a private message. Thanks!

[Lex Thoonen]

matme:

I have also had a bad experience with mantrav but have teken up a complaint with www.kwikchex.com/2011/09/mantrav-interna...-of-quality-profile/ 

Mantrav are under investigation so please contact kwikchex with your complaints.

[Lex Thoonen]

matme:

It would seem that lamancha hotels and resorts run the club mancha franchise. In a press release on

www.prfire.co.uk/travel-tourism/gay-trav...ipadvisor-71477.html

it states that la mancha hotel and resorts are aslo the parent company of Mantrav.

PRESS RELEASE

Gay travel group Mantrav International (UK) Ltd has retained a solicitor who is an expert on defamation to sue TripAdvisor over false and defamatory reviews posted on their website, Mantrav’s parent company La Mancha Hotels and Resorts, which owns a hotel on the Costa Brava and a gay resort in Gran Canarias

Look at www.lamanchahotelsandresorts.com/ for info on club mancha franchise

[Lex Thoonen]

dasist (malcolm hardy):

All these "people" are posting here are frightened to say who they are and give contact address or phone number for the explanation. If they are real and want an answer please give email and a phone number, other than that, please stop this nonsense. As far as I'm concerned this could be one person doing it. You can contact the company direct at 0845 643 0112

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

Dasist, as I can tell that you and your colleague are real, from the software back-end, so can I tell the other posters here are too.

It's time to stop the "poor us we're the victims of a hate campaign" whining and start answering real questions like:

Why do you still advertise the accommodation when it's not available as you are promoting it? (And by doing so, ruining quite a lot of holidays and creating negative publicity for Gran Canaria as a holiday destination.)

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

In stead of an answer, I just got this private message of Nathan McMahon, and I guess you might consider this to be an intersting read:


*************************

Hi Lex Thoonen, I am very careful in what to say - what's so illegal about what I have said? I did not threaten anybody with anything unlawful. Did I? Your imagination is obviously where the problem is.
As far as identities, here was just one person who was behind these posts, who has never been to the place or booked this accommodation, but was so excited writing huge posts, now he seem to have stopped.
Imagine me deliberately writing something negative about Gran-Canaria-Info.com on some other blog/website? I will never do that, it is not my business and I will never be interested in such thing - washing dirty laundry in public.

Returning to the seriousness of this. You are the publisher (this is how courts classify this) and you are responsible for what people post here and for the accuracy of the information. 
If it is enforced by authority - your servers will be confiscated by police and search carried out for the evidence - ip addresses, logins, etc. It is easy and have happened before. Believe me.
Speaking of Tripadvisor, there is joint legal action going on with High Court where hundreds (!) of B&B/Hotel/Resort owners who are suing them (check Kwikchex).
Always be careful to whatever you say on the internet from the comfort of your chair, this is why I'm always careful about it and advise you to do so.

Personal opinion is one thing, deliberate slander/defamation is another. And we are not talking of persons, we are talking of registered established companies with reputation, trademarks and solicitors involved. Some people have feeling that they are united by some forum topic and can spread something untrue, if it is personal experience it is fine, if it is lies and exaggeration is another.
Please remove this topic.

The situation is as follows: Club Mancha was to open on 1st of November but did not, it was still San Valentin accepting gay customers due to the situation beyond our control. Mantrav does not own or operate it, Mantrav is just a booking agent like many other companies. San Valentin is a big resort combined of 4 resorts totalling around 100 bungalows. Club Mancha is one of them (32 bungalows). Due to financial problems between the owner of the property (Spanish person) and his bank (also Spanish), resort did not open as it was suppose, it is open but not the way it should be. All affected people were offered FREE holidays in 2012 and full refunds.

You can contact the company direct at 0845 643 0112 orenquiries@mantra

*************************

(Now don't you worry people, I've had these kind of threats more often, and they don't make any sense at all, so GCI will not be 'off line' any day soon  )


And Nathan, no, I won't remove this topic and we're all waiting until you answer a few of our questions on here. See my post before this one. Thank you!

[Lex Thoonen]

dasist (malcolm hardy):

And where is a threat here? Your imagination again.
I did not hide anything by sending it to you, just sent it as the owner of this site. You admitting it, yes? If you feel you achieved something by doing so, it is your right of course.
I think you've lost the topic of the conversation with these moves 
I have said enough.

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex (12-12-2011):

Ok, I shouldn't but I can't stop myself. here are some answers Nathan:

If you find dirty laundry at my site feel free to discuss it wherever you like. My site has been set up to do exactly that: show clean and dirty laundry from Gran Canaria so in the end it becomes a better holiday destination.

It's 'nice' of you to offer people who have booked with you, and who find out the accommodation does not exist once they have arrived, a 'free holiday in 2012', but it really isn't enough. You should stop advertising it and immediately contact everybody who's booked it and tell them what is going on and search for suitable alternative accommodation. They do want to know these things before they get to Gran Canaria. You think this site is helping ruining your reputation? You are fully responsable for that by acting the way you do. Or better said: by NOT acting the way you should.

If you want to protect Mantrav's name, it'd be a good idea to come with an open apology and promise improvement. You've lost a serious amount of credibility and you'll need to work hard on restoring that. 

That's my 2 cents.

About my imagination: let's see what a judge has to say about that, ok?

About "deliberate slander/defamation": point me to one post in this thread of which you can prove the information to be incorrect (except posts written by you and your colleague of course, that would be cheating as that has already been proven for you.)

Now bite the bullet and start cleaning up the mess that has been created and save your company.

[Lex Thoonen]

Baillieman2:

Just who is Nathan McMahon? He feels strongly about this and has made some threatening statements. I guess that they are just bluster but I would like him to declare his interest in the situation.

And why on earth would anyone want to provide their contact details when he has threatened to track at least one of our members down? Absolutely ridiculous. If he indeed works for Mantrav then the company's legal adviser would be shocked at the way he is dealing with the situation. He has done more to harm Mantrav and Club Mancha Sanctum's reputations than anything posted on TripAdvisor.

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

I can only say Nathan really is from Mantrav, and so is his colleague who's posted earlier in this thread. Or at least those two persons must have access to e-mail accounts at the mantrav domain. So yes, it's really them.

[Lex Thoonen]

baillieman2:

Then I sincerely hope for Mantrav's sake that Mr McMahon is a loose cannon as his attitude stinks.

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

p.s. Thanks for the funny phone call of the 'I've got nothing to do with the company, i'm just an ivestigator'! 

You're making my day, keep them coming!

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

Thanks for that second, albeit a bit shorter, phone call too! (Didn't have the time to say thanks on the phone)

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

And here is some more communication that I think people who follow this thread are entitled to. I'm sorry if I do not sound very sophisticated anymore in my messages.

-----------------

Out of curiosity, if these people are real - where is user "GeeT " disappeared to? He/she if it was real posted fake message here and now profile have been deleted. I have asked to call the company, it never happened.

-----------------

You can keep hiding behind your questions, or you can step forward and admit your mistakes, arrange something for the victims and save your company.

Your choice, I really don't give a **** what happens to your company.

Take care,

Lex

-----------------

1) hiding behind what questions? All questions have been answered as far as I am concerned. If you have more - pick up the phone and ask.
2) Step forward? It has been done already, with affected customers and because you or some other here who have never been there, never been a customer, don't know the situation, don't know FACTS - simply spread lies. Both of these people - Dave and you live in Gran Canaria and by trying to create some negativity only damage Gran Canaria as a gay holiday destination. Those affected have been offered full refunds and free holidays in 2012.
3) It is your choice what to give or not about this company, again you don't know much about it, you don't even know how many people are working here or how many offices Mantrav has. Company does 150 holidays a week worldwide, nothing will happen, you don't have to worry about it. It is only a booking agent and Gran Canaria is only one of the destinations. Again I repeat this company DOES NOT OWN this property!
Call the number, pick up the phone, is it hard or are you afraid of something?
Leaving this on will only turn people off from going to Gran Canaria.

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

Oh and 'Brian', regarding that last phone call: very good of you to find out I'm not gay and that I've got a family! 

I just do care about holiday makers who come to Gran Canaria, whatever their sexual orientation. (Well, that hasn't been seriously tested yet, I have to admit. But I'm rather open minded in these matters 

(So if you like tractors for example for some reason, I don't care. I might even be intrigued actually, so I guess I do care.)

[Lex Thoonen]

dasist (malcolm hardy):

I'm not bothered reading your huge posts, you are arrogant and would not let to speak that's enough said, you are not in a position to tell what to do either. I am going to delete my account now, as it is not going anywhere, it is all about personal attacks now and I'm not interested. Later.
PS. You are one of those people who has to say the last word and be always right, you seem to know more about the situation than we do, be it. Leave it there.

UPD: there seem to be no option to remove account, please delete my account completely. Thank you.

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

Today, friday 16 december, Mantrav took down 'Club Mancha' finally from the featured listing it had on their website.

At last.

I went to San Valentin the day before yesterday, and went there with people who have posted in this thread. We shot a bit of video, and I went in and spoke to the receptionist as well. He said it was rather unlikely that Club Mancha would ever open at the place, and that I should ring the director. I just tried, but he's not in until 12:00 today. But with Mantrav now finally deleting Club Mancha as a product from their site, it seems probable that Club Mancha at that place will never be.

Next step? 

Well I just got another private message of people who had booked and were told three days before that their holiday was cancelled and that they'd get their money back. They didn't like it very much, so posted something on tripadvisor. They then received an angry mail in which they were told they were not going to get any money back, as they (the couple who booked the holiday) now were the cause of all the trouble.

I guess it would be a good idea if all you victims out there now unite and see what you can do to get recompensation.

I know there is a watch dog in Spain where you should go I guess, but you'd better off with something similar in the UK as Mantrav is the cause of your problems and they don't have company here as far as I know. But let me stress I'm a nitwit on legal things like this, so if anybody has a better plan, please share it here ok? 

I won't make the video I planned to make, at least not just yet, as the most important subject, "Why don't they stop selling club mancha", seems to finally have been dealt with.

However, it would be good to inform each other about the experiences. 

I asked the receptionist how many people we were talking about (who knocked on their door to get their promised accommodation) and he wouldn't say, but when I asked if we were talking about one couple a day he said, "no, definitely more than one couple a day".

Look, I'm really sorry to bring all this bad news, as logically, this is rather rough situation if you have to read this and all you want to do is to go on a pleasant holiday. But it's better to know and to be warned and maybe now to get together and do something to minimise the losses, then to stick our heads in the sand.

Whatever you choose to do with the information, I wish you good luck and hope your experience does not put you off (about holidaying on Gran Canaria that is).

Cheers.

[Lex Thoonen]

roonster:

Looking at the latest information which stated that Mantrav will not refund the customers. There is possibly one way around this if the customer has paid by a UK credit card they will be able to do a claim under Section 75 which makes the card issuer liable also.

If successful, the cardholder will receive full funds back from the card issuer who in turn will claim from Mantrav's acquiring bank who in turn will claim from Mantrav.

If anyone needs further information or help on this, let me know and will happily assist.

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

I have had a terrible experience, lost all my money, lost the holiday, lost £800 promised a refund over a month ago, now they just send me abusive replies.

This is genuine post, i am happy to send you the emails and the paid invoice to prove what i am saying is correct. I placed a similar review on trusted poi let and Trip-adviser 2 weeks ago and they threatened me with police action and a non refund, so out of good will i removed the negative review (even though it was 100% true) and yet again they have not kept to their promise. £800! Can you afford to loose that?

UPDATE: i have just had a call from ATOL, they don't know who there are!!!! They have confirmed they are NOT a member so in effect if you do loose your holiday or something goes wrong YOU ARE NOT COVERED. 

They say they are claiming via an insurance for "Supplier Failure" however i have asked Mantrav so many times who the insurance company is and what the status is, they have ignored this question every time. I now truly believe there is no insurance claim and someone somewhere has run off with the money. I found this link it looks like this issue is a lot deeper. gayholidayissuesgc.com/

I called Mantrav today and the guy i spoke to who has a very distinctive voice denied he even worked for Mantrav. ( i have read ease where that this trick has ben pulled)

I do not however blame Club Mancha for this mess. Mantrav should not have sold holidays they were not 100% sure existed.

I am sure that Mantrav have had lots of very happy customers over the years, that i do not doubt there are lots of good reviews, however you have to judge a company on how it reacts when something goes wrong. Anyone can take a booking and pass it on (as a booking agent does) but to burry their heads in the sand when it goes wrong and actually make threats to its worried and out of pocket customers is just beyond words. I will never use a gay travel agent again its just to risky.

And No Mantrav, i will not remove this as people need to know

I am now trying to claim via VISA (a real company)

AVOID, AVOID, AVOID (thats my personal experience this is not slander its a true and accurate story) 

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

From
gayholidayissuesgc.com/


*******

Gran Canaria Gay Travel Scandal


Over the last several months gay holiday company Mantrav international, through its associated brands; 'Club Mancha', 'Mantrav International Tours LTD', 'Mantrav International (UK) LTD', 'Andava Group' and 'Zyra Group' has been selling holidays to Playa de Ingles in the Island of Gran Canaria. Customers who have booked with these companies/brands, have arrived on the island to find that the accommodation they have booked into has either not been paid for, does not exist or is closed. The main holiday property which has been mis-sold and mis-advertised is 'Club Mancha' and more recently 'Club Mancha Sanctum'. 

'Club Mancha Sanctum' has been advertised as a 5 star deluxe, gay men only complex 60 meters from the Yumbo Centre, in fact, this property which is actually known as 'San Valentin Terraflor' and is occupied by straight couples and families with children and is most definitely not a gay men only complex. When customers have arrived to check in they have been told their booking is not being honoured and forced to find alternate accommodation. 

The authorities in Gran Canaria & mainland Spain are aware of this situation and are working with the local businesses, such as GLAY (Gay & Lesbian, Association of the Yumbo), and other holiday complexes to assist travellers who have been affected by the Mantrav situation. 

If you believe you may be one of the estimated 200 travellers affected by Mantrav's fraudulent activity please call the automated information service in Madrid on 0034 910 058 945 you can also fax on 0034 911 817 300 (and select ext. 2) or simply complete the form below - a representative from Gran Canaria will get in touch within 24 hours. 

Customers from the UK are advised to also contact Action Fraud the government's fraud helpline on 0300 123 2040 and quote the National Fraud Desk's Police Crime Reference Number: CR/8845/11

*******

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

I have just got off the phone to the UK fraud department and explained the situation. They say i have a strong case for fraud as the money was taken and nothing in return with no real proof of any sort of insurance claim going on on my behalf. (even though i have asked for it several times)

I have now completed the form and all the emails and invoice plus forums to prove my claim. it will be a very easy case to win.

Also did you know that what ever card you paid on, even if it was a debit card (which i did) as long as it has the VISA sign you can claim back anything like this. Just call your bank. Sadly its a lengthy process but if you have your crime ref number this will speed it up.

Its so sad that Mantrav dragged this out so long and so close to Christmas, so unethical, i would rather they have put their hands up and told the truth 'your not going to see you money for a long time if ever.' I would have respected that, at least i would have started my own claim which would have been resolved by now rather than leading me on that it will be "next week", next week" very soon"

These things really do come to try us!

[Lex Thoonen]

baillieman2:

ferristim wrote:
i would rather they have put their hands up and told the truth 'your not going to see you money for a long time if ever.' I would have respected that, at least i would have started my own claim which would have been resolved by now rather than leading me on that it will be "next week", next week" very soon"

Very true and the fact that they have preferred to threaten people with "legal action" or in other more dubious ways, as evidenced in this thread, leaves Mantrav with a huge stain on its reputation. I am trying to get the UK gay press interested in this story in order to get as wide a coverage as possible.

[Lex Thoonen]

MartynH:

"Mancha" is Spanish for stain or spot. How apt 

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

id be up for doing an interview if you want the press involved. Im happy to tell my true story and how events have unfolded.

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

I found a document online, it's a verdict of a court case of an ex-employee of Mantrav against Mantrav in 2010.

In fact, the whole mantrav / club mancha etc etc is a one man show (as are "both" members on here, posting as Mantrav people): Malcolm Hardy.

The verdict has some interesting notes in it, showing what we're dealing with.

Here are some extracts: 
(click on them to see them bigger)









If you want, you can have a look at the whole document, it's a pdf and more or less 7 mb: judgement

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

So what does this actually mean is it Mantrav that have lost this case or the guy that worked for them? I just had an email from Mantrav, again ignoring what i asked them about my claim and just said this..

"Tell what story you wish, but anything not true ( even if you think it is)
you will end up in Court, again Mantrav has done no wrong we have defrauded
no one.
WE will respond... in the news today it was stated....The Metropolitan
Police and the National Fraud Authority today confirmed that some details
published on a website claiming that the company was under investigation in
the UK and Canarias is false and they have been asked to investigate further
as to who posted them....

My Reply

"Why do you keep invading the real issue here, the email you just sent me has nothing to do with my refund from you. So i will ask you again whats the status? Are your bosses really seeing my emails or are you just replying with caty childish replies all the time? Can you imagine BA or First choice sending out emails like you do?

I want you to back up your claim that my story is not true, if you can, then i will happily post everywhere that I am wrong, and that i did not loose £800 and that Mantrav are being very helpful and helping me with full communication a transparent claim with a clear time line, the name of the insurance company documents that i need to sign to confirm the details of my claim and bank details, but guess what, thats not true is it?

You are a fraudulent company, both internally and externally and its your ex customers that are taking the brunt of it.

Please only email me from now on if you have a genuine update on my claim or do not contact me again if it is just to bitch.

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

Mantrav lost the case seriously, and apart from that, were shown to provide false evidence to court (what's that again in proper english?)

If you're interested, try the 'judgement' link and see the whole judgement.

What you'll learn is that Malcolm Hardy is full of shit and very manipulative, that he thinks he can do whatever he pleases. I'm no psychologist, but 'psychopath' comes to mind.

wikipedia:
Psychopathy (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/[1][2]) is a mental disorder characterized primarily by a lack of empathy and remorse, shallow emotions, egocentricity, and deceptiveness. Psychopaths are highly prone to antisocial behavior and abusive treatment of others, and are very disproportionately responsible for violent crime when in a violent emotional state or situation. Though lacking empathy and emotional depth, they often manage to pass themselves off as average individuals by feigning emotions and lying about their past.

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

On 17 Dec 2011, at 16:17, Mantrav International wrote:

We have tried to assist your claim, but you are impossible to deal
with. It is not an insurance claim as such, we are bonded and the money is held in trust by a trustee of an insurance company.

My Reply: 

So the story has changed again? Its now not an insurance claim. So all the emails i have had from Mantrav saying an insurance claim takes time is a lie too?

What are you playing at? Can you please confirm here and now to end this nonsense, are you seeking my refund or are you holding back for because you think i am unreasonable? How am i impossible to deal with? I have simply asked and ask and asked again for my refund as you promised. when you have refused, i have posted my experience with you online. Thats is a fair and reasonable course of action to worn others not to book with you. All i have every wanted is the refund you owe me for not providing me with a holiday that i booked with Mantrav. I've all the emails confirming this from you. So i ask again how am i unreasonable when you are keeping my money earning interest when i am out of pocket?

Thats fraud!

Please confirm

Tim

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

And just look at the reply i just guys;; 

From: Mantrav International <ad...@mantrav.co.uk> 

RETURNED UNREAD 

Now Go away

Says it all doesn't it? they just don't want to know, why would they having a great Christmas with my £800.

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

Has anyone of you contacted these people?

www.actionfraud.org.uk/

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

from that website:



Action Fraud aims to make the process of reporting fraud crime or passing information about fraud easier. By reporting a fraud crime or passing on information about fraud, you are giving anti-fraud agencies vital information that they need to protect you and others from fraudsters. At the same time you could also help to bring the offenders to justice.

Action Fraud refers all fraud crime cases and information on fraud to the National Fraud Intelligence Bureau. This is run by the police service. Although each report cannot be investigated individually, the information you provide will aid the police to build up a national picture of fraud. This will help make the UK a more hostile place for fraudsters to operate in and keep other potential victims safe.

In some cases the police may want to contact you for further details. It is therefore important that you keep any relevant information about the fraud.

If you are a victim of fraud, you can also choose to have your details passed to Victim Support, a national charity that helps those affected by crime. If you take up this option, you will then be contacted by someone from the charity and offered free and confidential emotional support and practical help.

You can receive feedback on how to protect yourself from fraud and you may also register for a regular Newsletter which will provide information on how the data collected by Action Fraud has helped in making the UK a safer place.

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

Yes i have filled in the form they are processing it, I've also contacted the Consumer Direct dept and trading standards as well as Visa.

I will win this as i have the law on my said, its a very simple case of not receiving a product or service for a fee paid. Mantrav have now more or less said they are not paying me back and to "go away" so i have to go through the correct right channels to get my money back. Sadly it won't give me all the interest from my overdraft and the stress and time its all caused.

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

I'm now receiving facebook messages of mantrav too, here's one:

******

An official police investigation has now been opened at our request and investigation under the 2003 computer misuse act is now under way, Spanish authorities will be involved, Mantrav have done nothing wrong. it is not a matter of blaming someone else, we will look after those who booked with us, but the delayed opening of Club Mancha is reated by the fact that the owner of the resort Mr.Cruz is in default with his bank on a €600.000 loan secured by 78 bungalows, when this is resolved Club Mancha will reopen there, Mr Jones has now been reported for miss use of the computer act which is a criminal offence, Screen shots have been made from your web site and don't think because you are in Spain you are safe. Mantrav has done nothing wrong, we book with an in bound Gran Canaria tour operator, we have nothing to do with the resort, the owner of the resort has not informed his staff that it is to become a gay resort or that he is in trouble with his bank, all people who had to find there own accommodation will be refunded, 23 refunds have been made todate. The two people who arte opening Club Mancha are a person who already owns a resort and bar in GC, and an investor from Main land Spain, we will see who is the defrauder. no more communications, Mr Jones is in big trouble .As for Mr Jones Labour Tribunal, Mr. Jones was told before he stated that if he won he will not get a penny because he stole £17,000 from our company, we were told by the police tonight that it is theft t and he should of been reported. Screen shots are being taken of all postings and they will be used in evidence, so go ahead post whjat ever you want but those doing so includinmg you need to accept what might happen in the court, as this will not go away. We do intend to defend this slander at all costs, There is a meeting in London tomorrow ( Sunday) on this matter.

******

So 23 refunds have been made to date. "Why not everybody I?" ask myself. Because that is clear. Well we know why, and I'm afraid that number 23 might not be entirely be a 23 as we know it... But obviously. that is just a 'wild' guess.

Malcolm, I do love your perseverance.

[Lex Thoonen]

baillieman2:

Dear, dear. The only Computer Misuse Act on the UK statute book is that passed in 1990 and was devised to make unauthorised hacking a criminal offence:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Misuse_Act_1990

Clearly not relevant here.

I would suggest that the company engages the services of a proficient lawyer if is taking things as seriously as it states. There again, any legal adviser worth his/her salt would take one look at Mantrav's sorry tale of prevarification, threats and ignorance of the law and throw up their hands in disbelief.

For the sake of clarity, the problem being described in this thread is the fact that Mantrav has continued to sell holidays to a non existent men only resort. 

The whole post is jumbled and confusing and it would help matters if future posts could be reviewed before they are added to the thread.

And a slight but important technicality, if the writer is threatening legal action it would be on the basis of libel not slander. There again, if proper legal advice had been sought then this would have been made clear.

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

Nice post thats helped me as i got a threat again from Mantrav today quoting a 2003 miss use of computers which you have pointed out does not exist

[Lex Thoonen]

baillieman2:

It's likely that this story will appear in the press in the near future. If you have been directly affected and you are willing to be interviewed, please can you PM me and I will pass on your details.

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

Yes i would love to, the more that hear about the way Mantrav have treated me the better, they can't be allowed to get away with by saying its not our fault and take no responsibility while my money builds up interest in an account.

Not to mention the appalling way they speak/email to me, lucky i have kept it all.

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

On their site Mantrav are still promoting Club Mancha (18/12/2011)
www.mantrav.co.uk/destination/gran-canaria-spain/club-mancha/

All you have to do is click on Gran Caneria and it comes up in the results with a booking form.

Disgraceful

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

I am about to post 4 emails i have just had in succession from Mantrav.co.uk in relation to my failed booking that has so far cost me well over £800.

I apologise that the language on these emails are offensive. But this is the type of company that is, or was, representing the gay travel community.

From: Mantrav International <ad...@mantrav.co.uk>
Subject: RE: to ferris
Date: 18 December 2011 19:33:22 GMT

You are a fucking stupid cunt, your flight was ATOL protected ONLY if the airline went bust, this is not the fucking case you fucking Dum shit.

From: ad...@mantrav.nl
Subject: RE: to ferris
Date: 18 December 2011 19:24:52 GMT
To: Tim Ferris <thef...@me.com>
Reply-To: ad...@mantrav.nl

It is a criminal offence to say “ you are defrauding” we have defrauded no one, we give our bookings to an agent who then books the property. You have closed down a company of 21 years, you have created a protentional loss of over 2 .5 million pounds to banks, resorts, hotel and landlords all because of your childish behavior, I want to tell my story. Also 3 people are now out of a job. We have 285 advance booking all going to be canceled because of you. Believe it or not but you will soon read about it.

ad...@mantrav.nl
Subject: RE: to ferris
Date: 18 December 2011 19:32:11 GMT
To: Tim Ferris <thef...@me.com>
Reply-To: ad...@mantrav.nl

WE ARE FULLY PROTECTED BUT REFUNDS ARE NOT MADE IN DAYS OR HOURS YOU HAVE TO WAIT WHICH WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER YOU FUCKING DUM SHIT.


Needless to say, customer service is not one of their good points. I am delighted to have received this email as this just closes the door on anything Mantrav can do to me or anyone else. Im happy to forward these emails to the press and another person who is having the same problem

Tim

[Lex Thoonen]

lex:

Well, in between the lines it looks like we've got some good news here.

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

Yeah i agree i doubt they would email such a damming mail to me if they knew they were carrying on trading. 

It came just in time to as i have a form to complete in the morning might blush a little patting all that in but its all true so its evidence.

Tim

[Lex Thoonen]

matme:

As a result of kwikchex investigation in to mantrav they have suspended mantrav's account see
www.kwikchex.com/?s=mantrav&submit=Search

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

Maybe some people here should write a review any way?

www.kwikchex-reviews.com/listings/view/M...rnational-UK-Limited

[Lex Thoonen]

baillieman2:

I wrote to Kwikchex yesterday and received this reply earlier today. It confirms the suspension posted by matme.

Hi Donald - thank you for contacting KwikChex.

We are aware of issues regarding Club Mancha and Mantrav and have been contacted by Mantrav customers and have duly responded.

In the first instance we would advise that clarification of a number of important issues and requests for specific information and actions as requested have not been responded to satisfactorily / carried out by Mantrav. We have today informed Mantrav that in the light of this, their membership will be changed from 'pending' to 'suspended'

In the meantime, we are providing assistance / advice to any Mantrav customers that contact us. For those requiring refunds, we are advising that they contact their card issuers / banks to immediately instigate chargeback procedures - and KwikChex will support such applications.

I will be travelling today, but you may be able to reach me on my mobile - 0044 7531 789 069.

Kind regards,

Chris Emmins

Co-Founder, KwikChex.com


A step in the right direction and an offer of support to disgruntled customers.

[Lex Thoonen]

matme:

Mantrav used to be registered at the same address as la mancha hotels but as of 15th Decmber changed their registered office from
77 LONDON ROAD
EAST GRINSTEAD
WEST SUSSEX
RH19 1EQ
to 
196 HIGH ROAD
LONDON
N22 8HH
This can be comfired at
www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/mantrav-international-(uk)

You can also see both these companies have directors in common.

also company details for lamanchahotels and resorts can be seen at
www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/la-mancha-hotels-and-resorts.
It would seem any claims that mantrav and club mancha are not connected are false

I have contacted my credit card company and hope to soon get a refund of over £1000.

[Lex Thoonen]

lex:

Yes, very important for now, for all victims out there: try to get your money bank via your bank or CC provider. For now, that seems the only way to get money back. We haven't had one single report of someone really getting their money back from Mantrav so far. (I'm sorry to say.)

[Lex Thoonen]

baillieman2:

This site also lists Malcolm Hardy as a Director and the Company Secretary of Mantrav International (UK) Ltd:

bizzy.co.uk/uk/07164872/mantrav-international-uk

The Summary tab shows that A Usatykh is a director of all four companies:

MANTRAV INTERNATIONAL (UK) LTD
ANDAVA LTD
LA MANCHA HOTELS AND RESORTS LTD
MANTRAV INTERNATIONAL TOURS LIMITED

Hardy also sits on the board of Andava Ltd.

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

Hi yes i reported Mantrav to KwikChex and had an email today. Very helpful has given me good advice etc.

They also confirmed that they have suspended their accreditation.

Mantrav will not survice this scandal now, if you Google Mantrav all the results are complaints and bad reviews. 

I warned then that I would do this. They ignored me and even said go ahead and do it, so i did now they are closing down (their words)

We just need to make sure they dont open back up under another name soon.

Tim

[Lex Thoonen]

lex:

A Usatykh is, if I'm not mistaken, the illegal boyfriend of Malcolm, who is important in that earlier mentioned court case; see:

www.gran-canaria-info.com/temp/mantrav/Judgement.pdf

See pages 6 and 7 etc

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

Some more interesting reading:

from:
www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g5..._Canary_Islands.html

"WARNING! We had a bad experience with MANTRAV who took our money for the apartment (2 storey) we requested and booked us a studio (one room) instead, saving themselves at least £100. By the time we arrived it was too late to do anything about it. They also failed to arrange transfer so we had to get our own taxi from the airport. We have complained so many times and been promised a refund but to no avail. The guy on the phone gives false names and pretends there are different managers/departments where a cheque will be raised and signed and dispatched but it's basically a one man outfit as far as we can tell (he has a distinctive voice)."



from:
www.trustpilot.co.uk/review/mantrav.co.uk

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

from:
www.trustpilot.co.uk/review/mantrav.co.uk


"Booked holiday lost money
Would never use this company again lost £595 and did not get the holiday. Still fighting Mantrav for a refund. They are not playing ball. Hiddious service. Gutted a gay company would treat us like this. And I agree with the other poster they are not ATOL protected even though the site says fully covered. I'm seeking the advice on trades discriptipn. If you google Mantrav you will see they have already been fined for an ad that was misleading only recently"

and

"Looks like I'm not alone
Also trying to get monies returned. I realise this is not Mantravs fault directly but they are being rubbish at getting my money back. I'm not getting anywhere and I booked with them months ago. I'd not use them in future. Go with an ABTA travel agent. Still have no idea what this cover is they say they have. They just refer to it as a scheme."

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

Facebook:

Mantrav Int
British Police has this afternoon confirmed, after investigations, they satisfied that Mantrav has not committed any fraud.
However we intend to press charges against various web sites and some individuals spreading these false allegations (such as www.gran-canaria-info.com, Andrew Jones, Lex Thoonen..).

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

They lie so much, i was told by them yesterday they had closed down

[Lex Thoonen]

MartynH:

http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?news_id=1150720

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

The article is a mixed bag, they do admit that they were selling something that did not really exists, its just written in a "nice way"

Ive been told now by my bank and the action fraud not to contact them again and to ignore any messages from them.

So im going to do that and wait for my money back from Visa Chargeback.

[Lex Thoonen]

baillieman2:

In the interests of fairness and balance, I have now written to Travelmole bringing to the Editor's attention the events and actions described on the Forum. It would give a different slant to the article if taken into account.

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

Thanks mr Baillieman2.

Let's just hope all our energy spent on this really does go into helping people not loosing their money.

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

Good great idea and thank you for doing that. They need to know the facts.

They need to know that Kiwickcheck have suspended them, they are not ATOL or ABTA bonded even though they allude to it on their site where by people who are not in the know would just see ATOL and think they are fine. People have not received refunds and I as a normal holiday maker have been called F*** C*** by their MD. ( i have this on email to prove it and have sent it to action fraud and my bank)

They also got fined recently by trading standards for an advert, and they lie saying I have closed their company of 21 years down and 3 people have lost their jobs because of me! And yet they issue a statement the next day saying all is fine.

Barge pole and the two words that come to mind.

[Lex Thoonen]

baillieman2:

Yep, mentioned the Kwikchex suspension and alluded to the use of threats. We shall see the response that it gets.

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

Thank you.

Im also having help from Pink Choice. A guy called Trevor is being very helpful. He could not get over the emails when i sent them to him from Mantrav

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

My polite email to Mantrav after their horrific abusive one to me:

Hello,

I have to ask you, how can you you defend calling a customer a F*** C***? and to Pi** off in the emails below? ( I have written them slightly more politley) 

Ive sent them all to the following companies and posted them as part of my experiance with you guys:

My banks Visa in the claim for a refund
ActionFraud.org.uk
Consumer Direct (www.direct.gov.uk)
Pink Choice (who i quote "are appalled"
KwickCheck who replied to me saying "We have today notified Mantrav that we are suspending their accreditation as their responses have not been satisfactory and this has given us cause for concern."

You know, the silly thing is about this whole saga is that initially i was defending Mantrav, i even called your office and said don't worry its not your fault, but at the time i was lead to believe i would be treated fairly, and with respect with a prompt refund. And t was indeed just a case of double booking not that the place didn't exist. We all know the horrible story that has unfolded since of, broken promises, denying who you are on the telephone when i call, never having any sort proof that their was a claim going on (which I still do not believe) false dates given etc etc.

It was actually a very straight forward situation that Mantrav have just handled terribly, and the only time i ever got any sort of response from Mantrav was after i followed through on my promise of telling my experience to date date. Then i agreed to take it down based on a promise from you (a phone call from Mantrav the first I have ever had in this whole experiance) which you broke, so now when you Google mantrav, all you see are bad (true) reviews from me and lots of others that are joining in. All of this could have been avoided if Mantrav would have just been reasonable. But now i get offensive abusive emails that i have had to report.

On top of that you lie again and send me an email saying that you have closed down and you have all lost your jobs. Another lie. (thankfully)

I still can't get over how you have treated me. I'm just so disappointed.

As for the ATOL, all i was pointing out that your site claims "Fully Protected" and alludes to you being ATOL protected. The laymen would see that and think they are fine, because you make such a big thing of it on your home page. 

You are correct on the fine my apologies, however the deceitful way the logo was used in the advert was upheld by the trading standards as wrong.

Tim

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

MANTRAV:
On 19 Dec 2011, at 20:52, ad...@mantrav.nl wrote:

Mantrav is full protected by no one says we are ATOL. And no place does it say ABTA, what happened in Gran Canaria was regrettable, but you could not just wait for your refund, you were three away, you can not take priority over others “ first come first served” Mantrav never sent you a e mail saying don’t go on your holiday Sanctum Resorts the inbound operator did, all they were saying was the resort could not accommodate you, you were the only one who never departed, had you not got in the resort you would of got a hotel. at 5:35 tonight Sussex Police confirmed that no complaint has been made against this company, they checked their computers, and as we have done no wrong, having already asked last week for a police investigation. We are now going after the websites and people who have made these false remarks which can be criminal.
Just watch this space and you will see, send this to LEX to post.

ME:

The email i received from who i now know as Craig Hands was signed off as Mantrav International, with an email of @mantrav. Are you seriously suggesting i should have blindly traveled when told there was no room? And in any case, i booked through Mantrav as i wanted the 100% gay holiday not use to be fitted in somewhere. If that was the car id have booked with First Choice!

Mantrav in actual fact did not contact me at all i had to call you, and got no clear answer was just told it was double booked and the island was full, which it was.

That aside, You have not replied to my question below re the appalling tone and language.

Also, if as you say i was "three away" from a refund (past tense) am i to understand you are now withholding the money from me? If so this is clearly fraud

Please confirm

This has nothing to do with Lex or his site i am simply posting my experience on all the relevant sites so others can read the true story.

For the avoidance of doubt here is the first communication i had. Clearly from a Mantrav Rep (even though i have had it explained since he is not) 
The email clearly states there is no alternative accommodation and a full refund will follow.

7 weeks ago!


Begin forwarded message:

From: craig hands <craigm...@gmail.com>
Subject: Club Mancha
Date: 8 November 2011 15:30:16 GMT
To: thef...@me.com

Dear Mr Ferris,

We regret to inform you that the accommodation for your holiday has been over subscribed and unfortunately we cannot honour your booking.

This unfortunately has been a result of double booking by the resort that we unfortunately have no control over. We have endeavoured to resolved this matter without success and we have also strived to find to find alternative accommodation without success.

We apologise for the inconvenience and will of course offer you a free refund of your monies.

We also will offer you a free weeks holiday in 2012 in order to compensate you fully.

Please call the office or alternatively call Craig on the emergency telephone number 07583409786

Kind Regards
Craig 

Mantrav International

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

On 19 Dec 2011, at 21:21, ad...@mantrav.nl wrote:

Mr Hands although has a mantra e-mail is not an employee of Mantrav or a rep, it is he along with another person who is opening the resort, the phone number is his mobile number not ours



ME:

And how was i as a normal holiday maker to know that? Why did Mantrav, the company i paid and booked with , not call or contact me the second it knew about this?

You see how this has just all got out of control due to Mantrav's lack of communication.?
You can't keep saying this is not Mantrav's fault. How can you even begin to justify being 100% clean?

What a company!

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

On 19 Dec 2011, at 21:25, ad...@mantrav.nl wrote:

I have no idea who sent the e-mail to you, but it appears he or she just had enough of all this crap , post whatever you like but make sure it is true, which previous ones are not.
I am now informing all the company employees to stop all communications with you.

Robert


ME:

I thought you had all your computers checked? Clearly not if you have "no idea" who sent me this, it was Mantrav that sent me that terrible series of emails, you all represent your own company


Can i just 100% confirm to you that EVERYTHING i have posted is not only true, but backed up with documents, and emails from Mantrav. 

Most of this things I've posted have come from you!

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

From Mantrav

We had our busiest pre Christmas bookings today in 3 years so I don’t think all this crap means anything, it’s just  publicity thanks, the more you post our bookings go up.
people have called and told us “ we do not believe half of it” 
 
Robert

Maybe we should ask for commission lol

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

Of course everything I've said is true. Why would it not be. I'm just a normal guy who's been ripped off and wants his money back. 

If what I what i have been highlighting is not true then why is it that when I reported www.mantrav.co.uk with all this evidence did this official body suspend mantrav

www.kwikchex.com/2011/09/mantrav-interna...-of-quality-profile/

Funny that eh?

[Lex Thoonen]

Mark1:

This outfit, for all that it claims to be a travel agency, seems to be selling "package travel", i.e. it seems to be operating as a tour operator. It has no ATOL, but seems to include flights, nor does it seem to be bonded as required by law- First Fidelity Insurance Trust seems to be unique to mantrav. 

“package” means the pre-arranged combination of at least two of the following components when sold or offered for sale at an inclusive price and when the service covers a period of more than twenty-four hours or includes overnight accommodation:—(a)transport;(b)accommodation;(c)other tourist services not ancillary to transport or accommodation and accounting for a significant proportion of the package, - The Package Travel, Package Holidays and Package Tours Regulations 1992

Question to mantrav:

Where can First Fidelity be contacted?

If you are an agent, are you the consumer's agent or are you the agent of the supplier?

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

I don't think that Mantrav read these posts anymore as the truth hurts. However send that question to the only emails they answer.Ad...@mantrav.co.uk and ad...@mantrav.nl

Then past the reply here for all to see

Thanks

Tim

[Lex Thoonen]

Mark1:

Oh, I dunno mantrav might reply here.

But for those who feel they have bee defrauded, why not use the systems in place already to deal with this. i.e. 
Trading Standards at Harringay (the firm's registered address is in that entity's area)

tradings...@haringey.gov.uk
Tel 020 8489 5134
Fax 020 8489 5554

who will no doubt seek explanations from the firm and put it in front of a judge, if necessary, to get those explanations.

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

Thanks again

Yes I have reported it. At this point I just want my money back. Visa is the best way as Mantra have effectively washed their hands of my "fully protected" failed holiday with them.

[Lex Thoonen]

vaslav37:

Hello,

I booked with ManTrav for my gay holiday to Gran Canaria. I can categorically say that I did not stay in a Gay Boutique Holiday complex which I paid for, my accomodation was very basic and when I challenged ManTrav on this they were abusive and rude. I am now in the process of trying to reclaim my money through my credit card as well as possibly going through the legal route. I have had various emails from various 'different' names at ManTrav/Zyra Group with threats of Court Action. This is indeed a fraud.

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

Now Mantrav have a new tactic. They have lied to a company who has acted on my behalf by saying i cancelled the holiday which is why i have not received my refund. They have never said this to me directly.

This really is fraud.

Luckily ive kept all the emails to prove this is not the case. I cant get over this company they are taking my breath away (and my money)
.......

Alex,

Contrary to what you state in your email, Mr. Ferris did not cancel his reservation (see the email below from Craig Hands). It appears that Mr Ferris has been treated in an outrageous manner, and he has had every right to get upset with the way he has been treated.

I hope you will step back from all the heated rhetoric that has gone back and forth and issue his refund immediately.

Many thanks,

Trevor Pinker
Pink Choice LLC
190 Knickerbocker Rd
Pittsford, NY 14534



From: "tim ferris" <thef...@me.com>
Sent: 19 December 2011 13:11
To: "Pink Choice" <in...@pinkchoice.com>
Subject: Fwd: Club Mancha

Hi Trevor

Here is the email i received a few days before i was due to travel.

Thanks

Tim

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

Please people, contact your local council's Trading Standards office with your complaint. 

The Trading Standards is the easiest way to get a conviction for fraud and they are usually most helpful. 

If everyone here contacts Trading Standards, they will take action and Mantrav will have to reply in court to the allegations.

Thank you.

----------

Other news: at last GLAY is coming into action, at least in a way so we can see it, by not deleting our comments on their Facebook page.

www.facebook.com/groups/gaygc/

Thank you GLAY for supporting the people your group is all about.

------------

Malcolm is still producing hollow threats, but our word seems to be spreading people, all that we've done hasn't been in vain. Now do try to get your money back via your CC company, and let's get Trading Standards to officially go after them and stop them from defrauding all those people.

------------

Thank you everybody, for spending your time and energy on this. It's not an easy one, Malcolm is good in convincing people he is the real victim. I have to give him that.

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

Although things are looking good, the battle isn't over yet. Mantrav is still selling Club Mancha:

www.mantrav.co.uk/destination/gran-canaria-spain/club-mancha/

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

Mr. Baillieman2, what do you think... Isn't it time for one of your accurate résumées again of what we're doing so far for people who have recently joined us? Thanks! 

[Lex Thoonen]

baillieman2:

OK Boss will get on to it.

In the meantime I have received a reply from Travelmole after bringing to their attention the problems being encountered by Mantrav customers. Here is their message:

Thank you for your email. We are aware at TravelMole of the comments made against Mantrav on the gran-canaria-info.com but it would not be appropriate to publish these without contact with the authors of the comments to verify their claims.

If they would like to contact us at TravelMole they are welcome to do so, using the edi...@travelmole.com email address, providing telephone contact details so that we can speak to them in person.

Regards
Linsey McNeill

Therefore, if you are one of the growing number of people who have posted their problems on here, could you take the time to drop Travelmole a line?

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

I was called this morning by the reception of San Valentín - Terraflor Park.

They wanted to know what is going on.

They confirmed they have no deal whatsoever with Mantrav and are getting pretty much fed up with Mantrav (and all the people who arrive and ask for reclamation forms). Obviously, this whole story is not good for their name.

But whatever Mantrav is saying people: Mantrav *is not* and was never renovating bungalows at San Valentín. 

If you want to contact them directly, contact details are to be found here:
www.svterraflorpark.com/

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

And although I wasn't able to see the site for a few days and people at other ISP's said they were able to see it, I as well now can see this site again:

www.clubmancha.com/

So he hasn't stop selling yet.

(Yes, Malcolm Hardy is owner of (the non-existing) Club Mancha and Mantrav International.)

See as well:
www.lamanchahotelsandresorts.com/

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

Hi 

I have just emailed my story to Travel mole:

Hello

My name is Tim Ferris and i wanted to talk to you anout a horrible experience that is on going with Mantrav. I read with interest your recent article, however as Mantrav did not invite anyone to be interviewed the article was very one sided. (this is not your fault)

I booked a holiday package (flights accom and transfers) with Mantrav on the 4th October 2011 to go to Club Mancha for 9 nights in November 2011

I was sent a very cold email 3 days before i was due to travel (not a phone call) to say the holiday was cancelled as they are over booked and i would received a full refund. That was 6 weeks ago.

To cut a very long story short they have lied and sent me the most abusive emails you can every read (i have posted some of them below you might want to close your eyes) This is after me pestering them for my money back and posting my true experience online after giving them a final warning that i would do if they did not confirm my refund. They have now lied to a third part company acting on my behalf (pinkchoice) saying that i cancelled the holiday so they are not refunding me, which is fraud. Luckily I have kept all the emails confirming the opposite.

They now refuse to speak to me and have said i was (past tense) 3 from getting a refund until i started to share my experience, again suggesting they are withholding my money out of spite.

Ive never booked with a gay travel agents before, i wanted a treat a luxury gay exlusive. I saved up for months and months and was so nervous about going through with it but i i did. And now i have lost over £800. If you google mantrav the amount of bad reviews that are coming out of the wood work now is considerable. Most were frightened off as Mantrav keep quoting police action and a law that doesnt exist of "misuse of computers act 2003" There is nothing wrong with telling a true experience thats what review sites are for.

When i booked they told me "this is one of our properties" then when the cancellation happened they said well we own 40%, now they say they are just a booking agent and Club Mancha has nothing to do with them.

I am gutted and disappointed that they have treated me so appallingly.

Below are a few emails there are lots and lots of others i am happy to send you.

I do hope you can highlight this and warn others that they are not protected by ATOL or ABTA and if something goes wrong they wash their hands of it.


EMAILS:

[deleted (already available in the thread)]

[Lex Thoonen]

vaslav37:

I am so glad that everybody is speaking up now. I thought I was the only one who was been sent hollow court threats etc. Does Malcolm Hardy have many alises? I think he does I believe. It looks like some people have been treated far worse than me with really foul and abusive language. 

Does anybody know how to get hold of First Fidelity, apparently it is they who said my request for a refund has been denied.

[Lex Thoonen]

vaslav37:

Hi Tim,

I would like to email Travelmole, is there a contact email there?

Best

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

Hi im speaking to a very nice lady there her email is 

edi...@travelmole.com

Tim

[Lex Thoonen]

Mark1:

This might be of some marginal interest:

www.thisiskent.co.uk/Russian-gets-18-mon...37-detail/story.html

Alex, a director of this firm, amongst others seems to have decided he is a Russian - he told the employment tribunal he was Finnish. 

The employment tribunal's findings against Mr. Hardy, another director, are damning.

Quote:During his evidence we were taken to a document that showed that Mr. Hardy had registered an email address : halifaxbank.complaints.com and had used this address to send an email as evidence that a payment had been made from his bank account to a creditors account in settlement of a debt..We consider this illustrative of his underhand and dishonest approach to dealin with matters:endquote 

It does seem to be the case that the directors of this outfit stretch the truth beyond it's breaking strain and then threaten legal proceedings against anyone who dares contradict that version of events!

Meantime, given the adverse publicity this outfit has attrected, it would be no surprise to discover that prospective customers go elsewhare.

[Lex Thoonen]

Lex:

Exactly Mark1, this is all visible for all on page 6 of this thread, where the whole judgement as well can be downloaded. But as the thread is becoming very large, it's true we need to start reposting important information a bit...

Page 6:
www.gran-canaria-info.com/component/kune...imit=10&start=50

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

And they cal me childish. Look at the email just received from Mantrav head office.

On 20 Dec 2011, at 19:13, ad...@mantrav.nl wrote:

TIM FERRIS 32 GIVES THE BEST BLOW JOB IN LONDON.

[Lex Thoonen]

baillieman2:

Well, Tim. On that basis I will give you call when I am next over!

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

Latest email from Mantrav (Zyra Group)

On 20 Dec 2011, at 19:37, Zyra Group wrote:

WE have retained the firm of Baines and Cohen with a view of taking action against you in the courts.
We have given City of London police all your e –mails and postings on various web sites.

.....

I did point out that everything i have posted more or less has come from Mantrav, the rest is just background truth.

How they can send me foul worded swearing rants then threaten me with court action is beyond me. I hope that go for no win no fee.

Unbelievable

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

On 20 Dec 2011, at 20:17, Zyra Group wrote:

All you had to do was to wait a few more days, but you have slandered our company and damaged it, we might have to go out of business, we are in talks with the police..
I cannot tell you anything, but you might find that we have been defrauded…over a million pounds

ME:

Then why did you not tell me that all i needed to do was wait a "few more days" i asked so many times for a time line or up date as well as some sort of proof that this is a claim and the name of the company you are claiming from, someone i can talk to that end to give me confidence this is real. I even begged you and gave me nothing, just harsh replies, it was only then that i started to post my experience with you.

Do you not see that all i wanted was a clear answer, if you look back on all your emails its just 'Mantrav are not to blame Mantrav are not to blame' and then swear at me and send me terrible, terrible things. Im sure a lawyer may well take down the postings in time, or they will just blend into the internet and be forgotten, but i doubt very much any lawyer would bring and sort of charges against me personally as the the emails you have sent me are all dated and official from Mantrav addresses. They are just shocking.

You keep saying this few more days, that implies that you have the money, otherwise how do you know it was only a few more days?

Yesterday you emailed me to say that you had the best Christmas booking in 3 years, and to keep up the postings it was good PR, to which i replied 'good make sure you look after them. ' Now you are going out of business, which one is it? I don't want you to go out of business thats never been my goal. Its just you have pushed me into a courner.

In this situation what would you do?

Just refund me and will go away. Ive always said that. Its quite simple

Tim

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

From: ad...@mantrav.nl
Subject: RE: Mr Tim Ferris Important please act
Date: 20 December 2011 20:50:14 GMT
To: Tim Ferris <thef...@me.com>
Reply-To: ad...@mantrav.nl

BACK OFF, Mantrav is going out of business tomorrow, this is all because of your postings, you are going to be involved in a big legal action and we will claim damages.
You are responsible for the loss of over 460 holidays to pre booked clients, the loss of jobs, landlord and banks, I hope you are now very happy. Money loss is estimated at 2.2 million

[Lex Thoonen]

MartynH:

Someone just posted on Mantrav's facebook page that " The place does not exist. We had a booking for last week. There is no Club Mancha. We had to find and pay for alternative accommodation and have not received any reply to emails asking for a refund and compensation."

I have messaged the poster about this GCI topic.

[Lex Thoonen]

ferristim:

On 20 Dec 2011, at 21:13, ad...@mantrav.nl wrote:

We are finished tomorrow you will see our web site go down, you are responsible for the loss of over 400 holidays, we have made 16 refunds the rest including you will get nothing.
Land lords, banks, hotels, resorts have all lost money because of you.


ME:

16 refunds to-date? Last week you told me it was 24 refunds before that 30. You are yet again lying about the fully protected bonding scheme, an account you told me the money was held in. Now you say i will get nothing. (i will as Visa will give it back to me)

I hope you are not going out of business as i said this was never my goal, however i simply don't believe you as everything you tell me is false.

You can not blame me for your going out of business, its a few postings of emails you have sent me and the experience behind it. This must go a lot deeper and you are taking it out on me.

[Lex Thoonen]