new dual frequency multi-constellation logger

[Marky Mark]

After a bad experience with a smartphone update which broke the location, in my search for reliable GPS positioning, I noticed there is a new product on the market: Columbus P-10 Pro

https://cbgps.com/p10/index_en.htm

Unfortunately there is no bluetooth to send the position to your smartphone, and the price is quite steep, so I'm not ready yet to pull the trigger.

Apparently it uses Broadcom BCM47755 chipset. What do you think of it ?

[lodrog...@gmail.com]

user question

Apparently it uses Broadcom BCM47755 chipset. What do you think of it ?

my opinion
- let we say that the info about BCM47755 is true
when we visit original product page https://www.broadcom.com/site-search?q=bcm47755 (it has also pdf link)
1. there is no info about SBAS or IRNSS L5 support. How the product Columbus P-10 Pro has those specs ? magician ?

when we visit the Columbus P-10 Pro original page https://cbgps.com/p10/index_en.htm
- we can see some pictures of track recordings paths. Those are so perfect, that i believe that those are fakes
- this product support ONLY 1Hz. Don't buy anything except if it support at least 10 Hz
- about the lack of bluetooth support. This product covers specific customers, it is not for you. They need a stand alone device for track recording. They don't need a screen navigation.

my experience into 2021 products
today, at low cost devices, smartphones or extrenal receivers, THERE ARE NO solution for submeter accuracy + multi band + multi Hz + sbas + etc

[lodrog...@gmail.com]

this is the link for the bcm47755
https://www.broadcom.com/products/wireless/gnss-gps-socs/bcm47755

[lodrog...@gmail.com]

https://www.columbus-gps.de/vergleich
this is the link for the europe site of columbus company

there we can found the follow specs
Columbus P-10 Pro
Broadcom BCM4775
GPS, GLONASS, Galileo, BeiDou, QZSS, IRNSS
as you can see, this time there is no SBAS support, but we have bcm4755. What is truth ant what is lie, only the god knows

thanks

[Marky Mark]

Found a test by a German user, only one image but the text says the accuracy is quite good.

http://www.gpsforum.geospector.de/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4030

" Don't buy anything except if it support at least 10 Hz"

Why would I need 10 Hz for my intended pedestrian use (hiking in the woods) ? I would like  to record a good enough track that I can follow later when my memory of the trail fades away. I sometimes hike in dense woods where are barely some trails.

But for that I need also a good enough phone, since this logger will not give me the current position over bluetooth. Too bad, otherwise I would have bought it in a heartbeat.

[Robert Enger]

Will this unit deliver position messages over its hardwire USB port?

If so, maybe using an On-the-go (OTG) cable on your cellphone would allow the P-10pro to deliver desired updates in realtime?

(cables are cumbersome in field use, but it might establish proof of concept and motivate them to put bluetooth or wifi into a future model of the P10?  Also, it might motivate them to increase the update rate?)

[Is there a useful App for the cellphone that will accept and process the position messages, if you are able to deliver them via USB and OTG adapter?]

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[lodrog...@gmail.com]

1.
broadcom company has introduced its second-generation dual-frequency GNSS solution — the BCM4776 at the end of 2019.
The BCM47765 simultaneously supports GPS, GLONASS, NAVIC, BeiDou, Galileo, SBAS, and QZSS in both the L1/ B1/E1 and L5/E5a/B2a frequency bands.
https://www.broadcom.com/blog/broadcom-introduces-second-generati
https://www.broadcom.com/products/wireless/gnss-gps-socs/bcm47765

2. about 10 Hz
into the first post, there is no info about the user needs. So, if we are pedestrian 1Hz or 2 Hz is ok. But for bicycle use, 5Hz is need it. For motorcycle or a car use, 10Hz is the base. If we buy one product, i think it will be nice to be "future proof" for the user needs.

3.
what about a gnss extrenal receiver into usb port ??? I don't have the knowledge if this will work into a smartphone usb OTG port. But i know a very cheap and very good product. With 25Hz and 1.5m CEP accuracy at L1 band. Please check this
https://www.gnss.store/gnss-gps-modules/131-ublox-mini-neo-m8n-gps-gnss-lis3mdl-compass-triple-band-ant.html
(don't look at the link the "m8n" it is the m9n)

4. garmin GLO 2
it is an external L1 bluetooth 10Hz receiver at 99 $. It works with android or iOS devices
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF-2hZUPkxk

[lodrog...@gmail.com]

5.
what about a new android rugged device with dual band gnss ? Have you seen the new Nokia XR20 ?

[Marky Mark]

I have my eyes set on Nokia XR20 for a few days. That's an excellent suggestion. Still there is no GPS test for it, and for his little brother X20 the only site who does GPS tests on phones (NotebookCheck) forgot to do so :(

Also the size is a letdown, 17x8 cm of phone in my pocket is quite huge.

I would have liked to keep my lousy half-broken on the GPS part Huawei Mate 10, for it's beautiful 16:9 screen on which I can see a lot of map and couple it with an external bluetooth receiver.  Also I would like to keep logging on separate dedicated device, to avoid Android aggressive power saving issue where apps are constantly closed. I have the external Canmore GT-750F which is quite good for a single constellation receiver, but it shows its limits in some places.

Thanks for the gnss.store links, I will explore their products, but anything other than bluetooth coupling is cumbersome in the field.

[lodrog...@gmail.com]

Nokia XR20 will arrive into the stores after 23 of august. We must wait 2-4 weeks to see detail reviews into the youtube or internet, not necessary to be for the gnss receiver. If we are lucky we will see a screenshot of GPS Test (not GPSTest)

the Canmore GT-750F according the web page info is using gps receiver model SiRF 4 ( Qualcomm SiRFstar IV  ) . This is 2 decades old technology.

about the gnss.store - they design themselves those products. You can email them and ask for a product that cover your needs. I hope they serve you

[ndo...@gmail.com]

https://www.quectel.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Quectel_LC29D_GNSS_Specification_V1.2.pdf

Specs doc here does say max 10 hz, although update rate is 1hz? Conflicting info, but at least there's hope. 

[lodrog...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 7:13:42 AM UTC+3 ndo...@gmail.com wrote:

https://www.quectel.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Quectel_LC29D_GNSS_Specification_V1.2.pdf

Specs doc here does say max 10 hz, although update rate is 1hz? Conflicting info, but at least there's hope.

chips or chips module are not devices. If you could found a working device, then we will discuss about the specs from the web page of the manufacture. About the word "hope", it belongs for the people .... sorry i can't continue. The people of science has only 2 words, research and development (R&D)

[lodrog...@gmail.com]

about gnss reveivers with usb port

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4YOvA9J92g
here we can see a video from 2018. It works this usb device, but the tablet is running microsoft windows. About android smartphones or tablets, i haven't found any tests

[Marky Mark]

Please let's keep this discussion on topic, no straying into USB loggers, semantic lessons about science or smartphones. Thank you !

[lodrog...@gmail.com]

No Marky Mark,  we don't thank you.

if you have technical knowledge you could help others to found the right device solution.

[lodrog...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, August 22, 2021 at 10:55:42 AM UTC+3 Marky Mark wrote:

Please let's keep this discussion on topic, no straying into USB loggers, semantic lessons about science or smartphones. Thank you !

this google group has the label GPSTest. It belongs to Sean Barbeau and helps him for the support of his application.

If you need to found info for your next navigation solution, this is not the right place. Some people, just like me lost their time to help you, with possible navigation solutions. We are not employees for a company, we are navigation enthusiasts.

Visit a shop to buy you next device.

[Tony Tschanz]

I just walked along a sea-wall and around a statue (approaching it from different directions after some delay), comparing this new logger with a Pixel 4XL dual frequency receiver.

The logger did a great job (see attached screenshots).

I sometimes walk the same with cm accurate survey equipment incl. mushroom antenna on a pole so I know the sea-wall and mini liberty statue are correctly aligned with google maps.

I will take the logger on all my hikes from now on to improve the mapped trails on the Open Street Maps (OSM.org) and may not bother carrying survey equipment and an antenna pole anymore.

[Marky Mark]

Your reply with comparative images was a great contribution to this thread, exactly what was needed. Thanks a lot Tony !

This logger seems so precise that it could be used to estimate phones location accuracy in places where Google/Bing/whatever imagery is not correctly aligned (and I have a few near my home).

[Tony Tschanz]

I walked many more trails in forested terrain the last few days and under less ideal exposure than the above open sky conditions.

The Columbus P-10 Pro with the BCM47755 chip did not consistently perform better than the Pixel 4XL with the 855 chip when both devices are placed properly (face up, away from body).

(I assume the P-10 has a little better antenna than the 4XL for the dual frequencies).

Sometimes the 4XL tracked the trails more accurately than the P-10, with no rime or reason.

(I previously mapped and uploaded these trails to openstreetmap.org with cm accurate survey quality equipment).

[lodrog...@gmail.com]

5Hz Columbus P-10 Pro

https://gpswebshop.com/blogs/tech-support-by-vendors-columbus/5hz-columbus-p-10-pro

[Kris De Decker]

Dual Track on different days. First track P10 (1Hz) on the right side of the car. Second track the P10  (1Hz) on the left side of the car.
Enjoy,

Kris

Op donderdag 30 september 2021 om 07:50:49 UTC+2 schreef lodrog...@gmail.com:

[lodrog...@gmail.com]

with the latest firmware update, this product can support

https://cbgps.com/p10/support/connect/index_en.html
The USB port of P-10 Pro supports two operating modes:
1. USB disk mode. Read files from the MicroSD card in P-10 Pro.
2. GNSS receiver mode. P-10 Pro can be used as an external HD GNSS receiver, and users can view the real-time location data.

with this new feature, we can connect the external GNSS receiver like this
https://gpswebshop.com/blogs/tech-support-by-platform-android/how-to-connect-an-usb-gps-receiver-with-an-android-phone-or-tablet
https://www.locusmap.app/locus-map-4-4-is-easier-to-connect-to-external-sensors/
and we can have support with apps like google maps, locus map, oruxmaps, etc

i will agree with some users, that the wireless communication like bluetooth is better. But for now is the only cheap choise we have
i hope you like it

[KP Barbee]

I just ordered the P-10 Pro. Will let you know how it goes -- really appreciated the discussion!

[Костя Стаханов (Константин Кривбасс)]

and he unless can produce raw data?? in my opinion it is useless for high-precision measurements

среда, 8 марта 2023 г. в 04:52:10 UTC+2, kpba...@gmail.com:

[Kris De Decker]

The unit is indeed made for plug and play and not supplying raw data.

There are many gps units and each unit serves a different purpose and has ad- and disadvantages.

br,

Kris

Op wo 8 mrt 2023 om 13:15 schreef Костя Стаханов (Константин Кривбасс) <k.stah...@gmail.com>:

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[KP Barbee]

For the P-10 Pro, my use case is to reasonably locate the features of my land (a spring, a well, the road). I don’t need precision as the points are all well inside the property line. So if I am within +/- 2m, I will be happy. Previously I tried it with my iPhone and one of the iOS apps — results were wildly off in every direction.

Currently in New York State, there’s a 16-20 week waiting period to get any property surveyed — so since I don’t need accuracy I am pursuing the P-10 to see if it improves upon the inaccuracy of the iPhone apps.

I will pause over the points I am interested in and average the data collected. Sadly, I’m not a professional land surveyor, but my Father was, so I feel his influence!

Kevin Barbee | New York

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