Britain's National Debt

[Briar]

Hey, you conservatives and lib-dems !

What is all this fibbing about Austerity having to be imposed in order
to reduce our debts ?

The UK National Debt is going up by about £ 400 every second, every
minute of every hour of every day, as you read this (those few of you
that are still here, now Jane has enticed you away to her new
googlegroup in googlegroup format's unreadably small layout, where you
have to beg She Who Must Be Obeyed to let you join first, and you must
not use the dreadful bad language a few of the few who remain here
sometimes use, or make jokes at She Who Must Be Obeyed.

I find the new googlegroups layout so hard to read I guess I shall not
be bothering to try anymore, I will stick with Poc's free speech board
until it finally dies, or is executed. Let's face it, not many take
much notice, and by discussing things with each other we cannot change
anything, or make those nasty polly-ticklers (Briarese for
politicians), listen to us, or take any notice of what we have to say,
it is all pretty futile isn't it. It's a shame, after all Poc put
into it. Sometimes "newer" does not mean better, it just means more
complicated, more expensive, or just more difficult.

Anyway, we now owe some bankers somewhere outside the UK another few
thousands of ££s more than we did when you began to read this, and
already the UK owes over one trillian ££££s that is > £ 1 000 000 000
000.

Let's face the facts, we are never going to be able to repay it, so
why dont we remove all the polly ticklers, banksters and swindlers,
with all their lawyers and economists, and burocrats that help them
from their positions, dump them all on some remote, fever-infested,
Caribbean island that we still have as a bit of empire left-over, or
even on a bit of the Belgian coastline, then declare our independence
unilaterally, and tell the world that it is they, not us, to whom they
should go for recliaming their loans, as we never had anything to do
with them.

Then we can print real money, in pounds, and real coins, with our
Queen's head on them, bringing back the shilling, the crown, the half-
crown, the sixpence, the real penny, and the farthing. With all the
lovely sums one can do with them, our children can grow up
understanding mathematics a lot better, like in the Good Old Days.
Effectively we will have put the debts onto the heads of all those
that created them in the first place, and we can bring back Imperial
Measures. A Litre has been so beautifully described as "Too little
petrol and too much beer" - what a stupid measure !

And that is another few thousands of pound added to the national debt,
by the way !

Ready for the Revolution yet ?

Love,

Briar

[jaria]

Its not quite as simple as you would have it Briar . I'm not suitably qualified to give you the best and most informed answer to your question but your business experiences would tell you that if you take over a company that's going bust it takes time to pull it around into profit. Its not as easy to do as it was in Thatchers time as she didn't have to appease another socialist another socialist party to get her legislation through.
I have my own theories about this austerity and would ask you to recall the effort and cost that West Germany had to invest to unify run down East Germany now multiply that at least tenfold and that's what we are doing with all those eastern bloc countries plus the PIGS that keep on needing baling out due to the flawed EURO.
Don't keep on saying that word revolution Briar the Muslims might hear you.

[Briar]

Dear Jaria,

I do understand your point, but I would like to inform you that, in
the mere 8 days from you sending your reply to me, and my sending you
this answer, that the National Debt has grown bigger, by the
terrifying sum of £ 276 480 000. Whatever this useless coalition
regime has been doing or not doing, they have had zero influence on
the growth trend and rate during all this time. This despite their
having made life far more difficult for several millions of us still
living within their jurisdiction, with all their CUTS CUTS CUTS, and
that the economy is supposed in the last 3 months to have improved by
a scant 0,3% - as far as the current "eggs spurts" are able to suggest
from their figures.

If this had been a failing company and I the Consultant, called in to
turn it round, as I have actually done a few times, I would be feeling
very uncomfortable and planning to disappear quickly, hoping that the
owners of the business did not have such good connexions in Sicilia
with some helpful Friends, as I did back then !

If I were given the task of getting it back to running poperly again,
I would be working on it exclusively, and not travelling about the
world, having friendly chats with other polits, about this and that,
let alone finding time to push through laws about who may marry whom,
or what, let alone agreeing to donate millions to foreign countries in
somehat less debt than my own. Indeed, I would expect to be
dismissed and even sued for incomptence and making false claims of
what I could do for them, if I were in Cameron & Co.'s places.

[jaria]

On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 3:13:49 PM UTC+1, Briar wrote:

Dear Jaria,

I do understand your point, but I would like to inform you that, in
the mere 8 days from you sending your reply to me, and my sending you
this answer, that the National Debt has grown bigger, by the
terrifying sum of £ 276 480 000.   Whatever this useless coalition
regime has been doing or not doing, they have had zero influence on
the growth trend and rate during all this time.  This despite their
having made life far more difficult for several millions of us still
living within their jurisdiction, with all their CUTS CUTS CUTS, and
that the economy is supposed in the last 3 months to have improved by
a scant 0,3% - as far as the current "eggs spurts" are able to suggest
from their figures.

Briar it took ten years for the last Tory gvt to repair Labours mismanagement of our economy and as Janet Daly points out after handing over a healthy economy in 1997 it took a decade for Labour to ruin it and hand over the mess we are still in. When criticizing the small growth rate compare us with the other EU members and understand that its their daft EURO or as im suspecting the unification costs. Id hesitate with the popular sport of criticizing the gvt for a while as it might be the case that our situation is improving and you dont want to find yourself with others who wont recognise the fact until the gvt presents us all with a Rolls Royce on the house.

If this had been a failing company and I the Consultant, called in to
turn it round, as I have actually done a few times, I would be feeling
very uncomfortable and planning to disappear quickly, hoping that the
owners of the business did not have such good connexions in Sicilia
with some helpful Friends, as I did back then !

 I agree with Churchill sacking all the experts and consultants to achieve success theres far too many of them and dont they dip their snouts in the trough with Foreign aid and other branches of industry. Not for me 

If I were given the task of getting it back to running poperly again,
I would be working on it exclusively, and not travelling about the
world, having friendly chats with other polits, about this and that,
let alone finding time to push through laws about who may marry whom,
or what, let alone agreeing to donate millions to foreign countries in
somehat less debt than my own.   Indeed, I would expect to be
dismissed and even sued for incomptence and making false claims of
what I could do for them, if I were in Cameron & Co.'s places.

Personal contact with world leaders is vital Briar . At last we agree on this daft marriage bill Briar . These Gays disrupted and upset many traditional churchgoers when they were in the pulpit having an entirely different belief to that which most of the congregation had and as usual are wanting more unpopular changes. I said at the time there is nothing to prevent them from forming their own branch of the Church.

As far as being dismissed is concerned that happens at election time or even by their fellow party members.

At the moment there is much blood letting which I welcome Labour the opposition are under the boot of the Unions

On May 13, 6:42 pm, jaria <jar...@aol.com> wrote:
> Its not quite as simple as you would have it Briar . I'm not suitably qualified to give you the best and most informed answer to your question but your business experiences would tell you that if you take over a company that's going bust it takes time to pull it around into profit. Its not as easy to do as it was in Thatchers time as she didn't have to appease another socialist another socialist party to get her legislation through.
> I have my own theories about this austerity and would ask you to recall the effort and cost that West Germany had to invest to unify run down East Germany now multiply that at least tenfold and that's what we are doing with all those eastern bloc countries plus the PIGS that keep on needing baling out due to the flawed EURO.
> Don't keep on saying that word revolution Briar the Muslims might hear you.

[Affa]

On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 16:39:09 UTC+1, jaria wrote:

Briar it took ten years for the last Tory gvt to repair Labours mismanagement of our economy and as Janet Daly points out after handing over a healthy economy in 1997 it took a decade for Labour to ruin it and hand over the mess we are still in.

 Do you still believe this rubbish, even after all the pages of exchange, all the articles dedicated to the subject matter?

When next you question why posters make disparaging personal remarks, just think on what an utter loon you can be.

[jaria]

My conviction is even stronger than ever AFFA especially after the exchanges with those who cannot see further than their party line and seem afraid to have an opinion of their own despite what informed opinion has to say on the subject and Janet Daly IS informed opinion are you paid to air your views anywhere.

          I try to avoid disparaging remarks as you usually do unless provoked. Those posters to whom you refer do not command any respect from me for that is the limit of their abilities. Dont you feel this way yourself ?

[Affa]

On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 20:47:57 UTC+1, jaria wrote:

On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:07:22 PM UTC+1, Affa wrote:

Briar it took ten years for the last Tory gvt to repair Labours mismanagement of our economy and as Janet Daly points out after handing over a healthy economy in 1997 it took a decade for Labour to ruin it and hand over the mess we are still in.

 Do you still believe this rubbish, 

My conviction is even stronger than ever AFFA

 Then I do not know what to say other than I find it ludicrous.

 

especially after the exchanges with those who cannot see further than their party line 

It reads as if your conviction stems from a stubborn refusal to accept reality simply to wind up those 

have explained the reality to you - a case of "I don't like it, so I won't accept it".

The crisis was the bankers doing ........ there is no avoiding the fact.

  

 

[Briar]

Dear Affa,

you wrote "The crisis was the bankers doing ........ there is no
avoiding the fact."

Just to let you know, I agree 100 % with you about that. So the
logical thing to do would have been to make the Banksters pay for
their mistake, and for having it all put right.

So what do this collection of Swivvle-Eyed Loons (I do so love that
expression! It seems so appropriate!) do to correct things ? They
punish US, the Primary Victims of the greedy gambling banksters, with
their fantasy bonuses, their bear faced audacity (I mean bear, not
bare, though I can imagine them hiding now behind beards, their flesh-
ripping claws and greedy paws flexing as their greedy, beady little
eyes focus on whatever meagre piles of money we still may have hidden
under the carpet or the old arm chair in case of need).

One should not despair I suppose, but AAAAAARGHHHHHHHH ! It makes we
want to scream and shout, very loud, in their ears.

On May 21, 9:58 pm, Affa <Affajee...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 20:47:57 UTC+1, jaria wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:07:22 PM UTC+1, Affa wrote:
>

> >>> *Briar it took ten years for the last Tory gvt to repair Labours

> >>>> mismanagement of our economy and as Janet Daly points out after handing
> >>>> over a healthy economy in 1997 it took a decade for Labour to ruin it and

> >>>> hand over the mess we are still in. *

>
> >>  Do you still believe this rubbish,
>

> >> *My conviction is even stronger than ever AFFA*

>
>  Then I do not know what to say other than I find it ludicrous.
>

> > * especially after the exchanges with those who cannot see further than
> >>>> their party line *

[jaria]

On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 9:58:52 PM UTC+1, Affa wrote:

On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 20:47:57 UTC+1, jaria wrote:

On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:07:22 PM UTC+1, Affa wrote:

Briar it took ten years for the last Tory gvt to repair Labours mismanagement of our economy and as Janet Daly points out after handing over a healthy economy in 1997 it took a decade for Labour to ruin it and hand over the mess we are still in.

 Do you still believe this rubbish, 

My conviction is even stronger than ever AFFA

 Then I do not know what to say other than I find it ludicrous.

That comes as no surprise to me AFFA for I cannot understand how someone who appears as interested in politics as you are is unable to put two and two together. If you are trying to assume your knowledge and understanding is superior to Janet Dalys  and other respected opinion then no one can get through to your unmovable programmed static opinion

 

especially after the exchanges with those who cannot see further than their party line 

It reads as if your conviction stems from a stubborn refusal to accept reality simply to wind up those 

have explained the reality to you - a case of "I don't like it, so I won't accept it".

That sentence is exactly as I recognise your stance AFFA and of course once again you try to convince that your opinion is fact. It isnt 

The crisis was the bankers doing ........ there is no avoiding the fact.

Here we go again its not the full facts and its recognised as they were able to act in that way due to inadequate legislation not too different from the Googles and Starbucks etc etc. People will do it if the inadequate law allows them to. Even Moodys recommended these packages as triple A 

  

 

[Affa]

On Wednesday, 22 May 2013 06:22:39 UTC+1, Briar wrote:

Dear Affa,

you wrote "The crisis was the bankers doing ........ there is no
avoiding the fact."

Just to let you know, I agree 100 % with you about that.   So the
logical thing to do would have been to make the Banksters pay for
their mistake, and for having it all put right.

So what do this collection of Swivvle-Eyed Loons (I do so love that
expression! It seems so appropriate!) do to correct things ?  They
punish US, the Primary Victims of the greedy gambling banksters, 

And the reason for this outrage (there should be outrage)?

Too Big to Fail ............. the whole UK economy would collapse, so they say, if these Banksters were 

made to pay for their sins.

 

[Briar]

Dear Affa,

what actual evidence is there that the collapse of certain banks would
have caused the entire UK economy to collapse ? One could have for
example done what was done with British Leyland when they went broke,
sell them off for £1 and let for example some of the managers or front
line staff buy their branch back and run it as an independent bank.

It was after all the back office and top managers and the actual
gamblers who worked for the failing banks that got them into trouble -
the front line staff were mostly not that incompetent.

In any case, for a regime that has let high street chains and shops go
broke and close down with all the unemployment, reduced services to
consumers, and misery resulting, without a care, why pick out a
handful of bad banks that were being run like a casino. to keep alive
at everyone elses cost, and for no return ?

[Affa]

On Wednesday, 22 May 2013 10:42:53 UTC+1, jaria wrote:

 Then I do not know what to say other than I find it ludicrous.

 

. If you are trying to assume your knowledge and understanding is superior to Janet Dalys  and other respected opinion then no one can get through to your unmovable programmed static opinion

 I cannot have respect for any so called expert that subscribes to the beliefs expressed here.

There are a number of serious neglected issues that deny it all ........... firstly, the economy in 1979 that Mrs T inherited was not 

entirely a result of the 1974 Labour government ( that was a MINORITY government - 17 seats short of a majority), and owed a lot to what had gone on before with Heath as PM. ......... five years without a majority was NOT long enough to turn the economy around.

Secondly ......... The economy actually got worse under Thatcher, went into recession, and had not recovered in those TEN years.

Thirdly. what the bankers did was not the FAULT of the Labour government any more than it WAS the Fault of the deregulation of the eighties.

 

That is a very uncomplicated analysis that seems to have been far too complicated for J Daly to compute.

 

[jaria]

AFFA please point towards where I laid the blame for the state of the UK in '79 . I simply stated the the country was in a dreadful financial state.
I'm glad to see you acknowledge that five years isn't enough to turn the country around. Perhaps you would tell some on Janes board that opinion you hold.

[jaria]

Regrettably you stubbornly stick to you ingrained beliefs . You know perfectly well that the whole world went into recession as like now we are part of that world.
Again I have to repeat that what ever happened in the eighties or ninety s Brown had thirteen years to correct. He had a stab at it and made matters worse.

So you don't reckon Janet Daly is up to it ? Well AFFA you don't mind who you condemn do you. Just as well you are not a Mathematician or you'd be telling us that Einstein has a lot to learn if he didn't agree with you,

Finally you agreed with me a long time ago now that the financial flags were all flying in the right direction in '97 Brown thought so because he kept to Clarkes policies before he had a brain hemorrhage .

[Affa]

On Friday, 24 May 2013 17:13:52 UTC+1, jaria wrote:

AFFA please point towards where I laid the blame for the state of the UK in '79 .

May 21 ...... this thread, you wrote "Briar it took ten years for the last Tory gvt to repair Labours mismanagement of our economy"

I simply stated the the country was in a dreadful financial state.

 

I'm glad to see you acknowledge that five years isn't enough to turn the country around. Perhaps you would tell some on Janes board that opinion you hold.

Five years, three years is time enough to make progress, to repair any damage and have the corrections in place. Brown wisely knew that in 1997 he could not embark on putting the NHS or any other service back on track until he paid off the huge debt he inherited, and got a million off the dole and back to work.

His priority was to get spending below 40% of GDP and keep it there. After FIVE years the UK had passed France as the fourth richest, and had the economy 

growing - and that period saw the collapse of the dot.com market that had inflated the FTSE etc. We had the ENRON debacle, the world went through a recession, the UK did not.

A lot, a great deal can be done in five years if the Chancellor has the talent to show how. .......... Osborne is a bafoon, and most know it.

 

[jaria]

AFFA weve had this conversation so many times you know full well my opinion and you really dont have to restate yours. If Brown was thought of as such a success why did he lose so many seats at the last election. He prooved himself yo be incapable as most Scottish history teachers would as Chancellor however word is that he merely followed Balls policies and this is the guy you are recommending to have a re run.

Huge debt lol . He didnt pay it off he followed the trend set by Clarke which I refer to my flags in the right direction any debt he inherited was already decreasing quite different to the much larger one that Osborne inherited which of course was increasing.

Im sorry Im not interested in going further into the rest of your post as your interpretation has to be ruined by tribal loyalties which prevent you from seeing or recalling the real situation. I rather debate with someone who forms their opinion unclouded by party loyalty

[Affa]

On Friday, 24 May 2013 20:14:37 UTC+1, jaria wrote:

. If Brown was thought of as such a success why did he lose so many seats at the last election. 

I'm very used to EW diverting the thread and misrepresenting what was said in posts. I'm even more familiar with TB making up things.

And now you too are adopting these same tactics.

In my post I was commenting on how Gordon Brown influenced the UK economy (to the betterment) in his first term as CHANCELLOR, and you choose to 

construe that he was a failure as PRIME MINISTER ten years later as if it negates all that went before .......... it doesn't.

The topic was about how influential ANY government can be 'in the short term' ......... I post to argue that they CAN be very influential. Over to you.

n.b. there is a lot at stake in this, a lot to be said, a discussion of its own that could go some way towards understanding WHY what is/was done is/was done.

 .

[jaria]

It won't be me that's diverting the question AFFA . Brown stuck to Clark's policy for a start. When he or Balls decided to do their own thing the troubles began.how can you possibly give Brown the credit for following Clarkes policies. Well I suppose in your world anything is fair game.

[jaria]

Brown or Balls as you know we're given a free hand by Blair, too much of a free hand which led Brown to force his retirement. I shouldn't have to be explaining all this as its public knowledge. I can only put your intransigence down to the usual refusal to accept reality.
As I suspected we are going over old ground and it no use you complaining about EW or TBs posts because they have found your Achilles heel and you have to complain about them and now me as a diversionary tactic.

[Affa]

On Friday, 24 May 2013 22:01:52 UTC+1, jaria wrote:

As I suspected we are going over old ground and it no use you complaining about EW or TBs posts because they have found your Achilles heel and you have to complain about them and now me as a diversionary tactic.

This very night, in the last few hours EW has posted that prostitutes (in Canne for the festival) are making a fortune, and uses 

this to imply that the government's austerity measures have not had an effect on the sex trade here.

And TB earlier on the same thread said "working class women have little else to offer - it's their only option to earn a living".

That his typical untruthful generalisation.

Do not attempt to try and tell me or anybody else that I have an Achiles heal, a Nemisis, or any challenging weakness that 

these two, or you, can expose or take advantage of .......... it makes you look stupid.

 

[Jonksy]

The blokes a full blown twat Affa you can't reason with the fool because he is a fucking retard..

..

[Briar]

The saddest thing is, imho, that whilst we can chat away on here, the
National Debt continues to grow, by about £ 400 per SECOND, and that
through day and night, every day including weekends and bank
holidays.... that is by £345 Million every day !!!

NO AMOUNT OF "AUSTERITY" CAN SLOW OR STOP THIS.

The longer we wait before just declaring this debt null and void and
telling the "lenders" or speculators to go and sing for it, because we
have written it off (a welll known and daily done bit of accountancy
work!), the deeper in it we go.

This is a crazy situation - the ordinary people, the small and medium
sized business owners, the entrepreneurs, the working people, the old,
the sick, and the kids, are none of them responsible for this amazing
bit of folly on the part of those who think they run the country but
who in fact ruin it.

Eventually we will have to stop it. So why not today ?

On May 25, 6:36 am, Jonksy <jon...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> The blokes a full blown twat Affa you can't reason with the fool because he
> is a fucking retard..
> ..
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 20:07:22 UTC+1, Affa wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 16:39:09 UTC+1, jaria wrote:
>

> >> *Briar it took ten years for the last Tory gvt to repair Labours

> >>> mismanagement of our economy and as Janet Daly points out after handing
> >>> over a healthy economy in 1997 it took a decade for Labour to ruin it and

> >>> hand over the mess we are still in. *

[jaria]

I have already told you AFFA and as long as you post sometimes as you do the stupidity accusation must also apply to you.

No the fact that some will realise that they can earn more in a couple of hours than they can on an assembly line > I was a trainee manager in such a place and can tell you its soul destroying. I also know where I was in the East end that with those families I knew and sometimes holiday with there was more chance of getting ones leg over than flying to the moon.

You like every one else have their weaknesses AFFA and one that sticks out like a sore thumb is that you never doubt that you are correct. This is definately and Achilles heel

[jaria]

You are no position to call anyone a retard Thicko . Your posts give you away. This one is just a name caller means nowt

[Briar]

And while the mice play, the National Debt continues to rise !

On May 25, 9:51 am, jaria <jar...@aol.com> wrote:
> You are no position to call anyone a retard Thicko . Your posts give you
> away. This one is just a name caller means nowt
>
>
>
> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 6:36:36 AM UTC+1, Jonksy wrote:
>
> > The blokes a full blown twat Affa you can't reason with the fool because
> > he is a fucking retard..
> > ..
> > On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 20:07:22 UTC+1, Affa wrote:
>
> >> On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 16:39:09 UTC+1, jaria wrote:
>

> >>> *Briar it took ten years for the last Tory gvt to repair Labours

> >>>> mismanagement of our economy and as Janet Daly points out after handing
> >>>> over a healthy economy in 1997 it took a decade for Labour to ruin it and

> >>>> hand over the mess we are still in. *

[jaria]

Briar in the real world the country would have been declared bankrupt if you liken it to a business. You really cant blame  those that have inherited 13 years of mismanagement. Have you any idea what we would be paying had we adopted the borrow more policies when the rest of the world is in recession. Compare for example our performance with our EU partners who were not left the largest amount of debts

On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 3:13:49 PM UTC+1, Briar wrote:

[Affa]

On Monday, 27 May 2013 16:32:37 UTC+1, jaria wrote:

Briar in the real world the country would have been declared bankrupt if you liken it to a business. You really cant blame  those that have inherited 13 years of mismanagement. 

By your own accounting the country was bankrupt throughout the entire Thatcher period.

If you decide to play these sort of games, be prepared to have the same dirty trick played on you.

 

[Jonksy]

What planet are you on? Your lot are BORROWING more than labour ever intended too and passing on the debt to our grand kids grand kids..Bloody hell and you have the gaul to say others should fucking keep up...Sheeesh

On Monday, 27 May 2013 16:32:37 UTC+1, jaria wrote:

[Briar]

Well, I guess one conclusion must be that a Country is just not like a
Business ! Now, our National Debt, which is created by "our"
government selling bonds to big institutions and other governments,
which they promise to repay after so many years,is now over £ 1.3
Trillion, and it goes up by £ 400 every SECOND, day and night, day
after day, week after week. We actually already owe so much there is
no way we will ever be able to repay it all.

This is a toxic debt - it poisons every and any thing we try to do.

My argument is that all such "debts" should simply be written off.
This is not unusual, accountants write off debts every day, once it
becomes clear they are never going to be repayed. The "lenders" have
so much money they dont know what to do with it all, so they take a
risky investment, having been misadvised to lend the money to us or
any other country, thinking they will be making a HUGE PROFIT. They
KNOW it is risky, that is why it is so profitable, so long as the
borrower is daft enough to try to repay it.

[jaria]

Unfortunately not just with Mrs Thatcher AFFA but since WWI but MrsThatcher had a job to do to prevent us really going down the plug hole and stopped the sick mans ,or British disease a generally accepted fact except from those that were shaken into reality and blame her for doing it . They were disturbed from their cosy little siesta by reality and never forgave her for it. Now we've got a Blair that called himself Labour but clearly wasn't as they couldn't get the vote now we have another Blair called Cameron that calls himself a Tory but isn't. He too forecast that under Brown Labour would never win the election and got there thanks to one good speech against a very bad one.

[jaria]

And you thicko don't begin to understand after 13 years why we are in this position. Are you one that thinks Brown handed over a thriving economy? I've heard some excuses but that one takes the biscuit.

[Affa]

On Tuesday, 28 May 2013 08:39:35 UTC+1, jaria wrote:

 MrsThatcher had a job to do to prevent us really going down the plug hole and stopped the sick mans ,or British disease a generally accepted fact 

Not a fact, a sound byte that has been used for centuries and has been applied to many other countries in the past.

Originally Turkey, Germany pre-war, Portugal, and now Greece. have all been labelled the "sick man of Europe".

imo ....... The economy in 1979 owed as much to the previous Conservative government(s) as it did to the Labour gov't that left it. Those governments blamed the TU and OPEC (they always have someone else to blame), but the fact remains that with NS Oil and tame Unions, nothing much improved.

 Mrs T did not rescue the Nation's economy she changed it - for the worse.

[jaria]

Yes AFFA we know your opinion and it is the left wings take on the situation .

Another excuse for Labours inability to admit that they are incapable of managing the economy.and that certainly is a fact. 

Changed it for the worse ? Not many apart from Thatcher haters would have the nerve to say that mind you she did give them a bit of a rude awakening.

Did I read somewhere that you said the unemployment figures were lower pre '79 than they are now? Wouldnt be anything to do with all those inefficient and overmanned industries that the country was going bust in trying to subsidise them of course. Brown tried the same trick in employing 800.000 to keep the unemployed figures down and of course the next gvt is blamed for getting rid of them again.

For someone who has such definite opinions it puzzles me that you refuse to include the obvious .

[jaria]

any idea what Osborne was talking about when he said they were committed to Foreign aid in his interviews this AM

[Jonksy]

You are a fucking retard jar you aint equipped to cast aspersions on others who are your betters..

[Jonksy]

LOL Harman said so.......LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL...Even the caMoron is now wiseing up and doing yet another fucking U-Turn or is that another FACT you missed as per usual?

[jaria]

you do it all the time thicko

[jaria]

nope one you cannot bring yourself to admit. nothing new there

[Jonksy]

You can't because you fucking lied jar and was caught out on two counts..

[Affa]

On Tuesday, 28 May 2013 18:40:24 UTC+1, jaria wrote:

Did I read somewhere that you said the unemployment figures were lower pre '79 than they are now? Wouldnt be anything to do with all those inefficient and overmanned industries that the country was going bust in trying to subsidise them of course. 

lol ..... and what is this boast that "there are more people employed today than at any time in our history" all about.

Loads of employed, with many of them being 'subsidised' with tax credits.

What's the difference Jar?

The difference is getting on for two million more on the dole today ......... 

 

[jaria]

figures , do not put your trust in figures as we both should realise. I have no idea and nor do you about how these figures are arrived at. What I do know is that they rely on the information thats fed into the computer. Then as we both know there are several ways politicians use to hide unpleasant facts from us.

However when you get both parties telling you that a period of austerity is required after thirteen years in gvt you should get the message that they should not be your first choice

[jaria]

Lied Jonsky why on earth should I bother to lie to you, you arnt worth it.

[Briar]

Affa,

I am not sure whether this or that nation being awarded the Label
"Sick Man of Europe" is of any sigificance or importance - in the
past, when the lable was given to Turkey, it seemed to have been
awarded to a country, all but a tiny part of which was not even IN
Europe ! Such a title obviously came from some cheap journalist
inventing a headline for a newspaper - we tend to forget that
journalists are the next worst liars to polly ticklers, and that they
have been so for generations, the present ones are not a sudden, new
phenomen.

There IS a sort of "disease" characteristic of the UK - we are
brilliant at inventing some new and exciting bit of technology,
discovering a new branch of science, or engineering, but very slow and
hesitant about actually following up our original ideas by developing
them ! This happpened with antibiotics, which was discovered in the
UK but was developed by the Americans with a later attempt to recover
by us with the semisynthetic "new" penicillins... Hovercraft we
invented but others took over and built them. Computers, our
scientist built the first prototype one in the time of Queen Victoria,
but the calculating machines that came from Babbage's pioneering work
were American, in the electronic age our own Turing the code breaker
was the initiator, but after we perecuted this troubled mind to its
death, the Americans were the ones who exploited his discoveries and
built the next generation of them (and who made all the profits from
them !) I could fill the entire day listing additional examples, but
enough - I am sure everyone can see what I mean.

[Affa]

On Wednesday, 29 May 2013 12:44:11 UTC+1, Briar wrote:

Affa,

I am not sure whether this or that nation being awarded the Label
"Sick Man of Europe" is of any sigificance or importance -

It isn't. It is a misused soundbyte that they use purely for negative propaganda.

It has no more truth or value than any other, than "we are all in it together".

 

.

[Jonksy]

You are a proven fucking liar troll..End off..But then what more can we expect from a tory indoctrinated cunt like you? I am still waiting for you to name this mythical authority who banned chopper in-flight chopper refuelling which you openly bullshitted over...And the links to your lies can be posted here if you want you lying tory arsehole..

[Briar]

Jon

now please pull yourself together. The message below was off topic
and should not have been on this thread.

You have shown that you can be perceptive and hande complex matters
with analytical skill and express your opinions very clearl;y and
convincingly, so stop behaving like a junior member of the local
street gang of losers. It is such off topic messages that caused the
Lady Jane to create the new fangled gurgle board with its clumsy,
consumer unfriendly structure, that has practically slaughtered this
totally free one.

Next time please start a new thread as this one is for answering
points made on this one.

Thanking you in advance

Briar

On May 29, 4:28 pm, Jonksy <jon...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> You are a proven fucking liar troll..End off..But then what more can we
> expect from a tory indoctrinated cunt like you? I am still waiting for you
> to name this mythical authority who banned chopper in-flight chopper
> refuelling which you openly bullshitted over...And the links to your lies
> can be posted here if you want you lying tory arsehole..
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, 29 May 2013 10:00:09 UTC+1, jaria wrote:
>
> > Lied Jonsky why on earth should I bother to lie to you, you arnt worth it.
>
> > On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 9:32:31 PM UTC+1, Jonksy wrote:
>
> >> You can't because you fucking lied jar and was caught out on two counts..
>
> >> On Tuesday, 28 May 2013 21:13:55 UTC+1, jaria wrote:
>
> >>> nope one you cannot bring yourself to admit. nothing new there
>
> >>> On Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:34:17 PM UTC+1, Jonksy wrote:
>

> >>>> LOL Harman said so.......LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL...Even thecaMoronis now wiseing up and doing yet another fucking U-Turn or is that another

[Jane]

'so stop behaving like a junior member of the local
street gang of losers. ' ............ 'Next time please start a new thread as this one is for answering
points made on this one. '

Lol, this from you! 

[Briar]

Ok Jane ! I guess I asked for it, and I got it !

Some boys really are beyond the limit. I did try though. Let's see
if it just blows through the space between the ears or if some brain
cells manage to intercept it.

On May 30, 7:11 am, Jane <rcfa...@aol.com> wrote:
> 'so stop behaving like a junior member of the local
> street gang of losers. ' ............ 'Next time please start a new thread
> as this one is for answering
> points made on this one. '
>

> Lol,* this* from you!

> > > >>>>>>>> hear you.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[jaria]

Am I thicko? Then tell me why the Spectator tells us "As Gordon Brown  discovered when he committed Labour to increasing the share of GDP spent on health to the European average (without specifying what he wanted to achieve) the easiest way to get rid of money is simply to insist that it is spent, never mind how.

So thats nailed one of your inventions.