Bitter Family Latin and Cyrillic expert

[SOL MATAS]

Hello colleagues,

I am working on Bitter, expanding the project to 9 instances.

I spent the last week designing the Thin and the Black masters.

Attached you can find a .gif with images of the Latin set I’ve been working on.

I am making some changes as you can see in the /x/.

Tomorrow:

I will be focused on Numerals, all number related glyphs and symbols.

Sincerely,

Sol.

.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*

Sol Matas
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HUERTA TIPOGRÁFICA

s...@huertatipografica.com

huertatipografica.com

facebook.com/huertatipo

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Lausitzerstr. 10, Aufgang C, Einheit sieben

Etage 3, 10999, Berlin

T. (++49) 174 4101524

[Dave Crossland]

Thank you Sol!

This is great! 

I like the GIF but I think the GIFs are most helpful when showing before/after changes; it would be more helpful to see different images as static images in your future posts :)

I wonder if your more unusual 'x' could find a place in the default glyph set in these more extreme weights, and be available as a stylistic alternate in the middle weights? :) 

[SOL MATAS]

Hi Colleagues!

Sorry for my delay of daily updates.

1. I was working with numerals and symbols and making some changes in the Cyrillic set.

I asked the Russian designer Gayaneh Bagdasaryan to make a review and she made some suggestions.

*Attached you can find some little changes  in the Cyrillic set.

1.b. I decided to tak Dave´s suggestion and make an alternate for the more usual ‘x’.

2. Today I start working with Small Caps.

Cheers!

Sol

.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*

Sol Matas
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HUERTA TIPOGRÁFICA

s...@huertatipografica.com

huertatipografica.com

facebook.com/huertatipo

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Lausitzerstr. 10, Aufgang C, Einheit sieben

Etage 3, 10999, Berlin

T. (++49) 174 4101524

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[SOL MATAS]

One last comment and question for today.

3. Juan Pablo suggested me to work directly with 2 Masters instead of 3, the Thin and Black Masters.

And then he suggested to use the ‘Brace Trick’ (I am working with Glyphs) for the Regular.

I was only using the ‘Bracket Trick’ with some glyphs.

Cheers!

Sol.

.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*

Sol Matas
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HUERTA TIPOGRÁFICA

s...@huertatipografica.com

huertatipografica.com

facebook.com/huertatipo

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Lausitzerstr. 10, Aufgang C, Einheit sieben

Etage 3, 10999, Berlin

T. (++49) 174 4101524

On 15/11/2016, at 15:49, SOL MATAS <solm...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Colleagues!

Sorry for my delay of daily updates.

1. I was working with numerals and symbols and making some changes in the Cyrillic set.

I asked the Russian designer Gayaneh Bagdasaryan to make a review and she made some suggestions.

*Attached you can find some little changes  in the Cyrillic set.

1.b. I decided to tak Dave´s suggestion and make an alternate for the more usual ‘x’.

2. Today I start working with Small Caps.

Cheers!

Sol

<be-cy.png><brevecomb-cy.png><descender-cy.case.png><Ef-cy.loclBGR.png><em-cy.png><ge-cy.loclBGR.png><ghemiddlehook-cy.png>

<dje-cy.png><ghestroke-cy.png><Izhitsa-cy.png><Kahook-cy-1.png><Tetse-cy.png><ve-cy.loclBGR.png><Zedescender-cy.png>

<Esdescender-cy.png>

[SOL MATAS]

Hi Colleagues!

1. Attached you can find some little changes in the Cyrillic Italic set.

2. I was working with Small Caps, tomorrow I will prepare some images.

3. Any thoughts about the ‘Brace Trick’ in Glyphs?

Cheers!

Sol.

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Sol Matas
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HUERTA TIPOGRÁFICA

s...@huertatipografica.com

huertatipografica.com

facebook.com/huertatipo

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Lausitzerstr. 10, Aufgang C, Einheit sieben

Etage 3, 10999, Berlin

T. (++49) 174 4101524

[SOL MATAS]

Hello Colleagues,

I’ve been working with SC but I am not sure about the spacing in the black.

I will make some test today.

I have started with the thin and black of the Cyrillic and I will continue with that today.

Cheers,

Sol.

On 17/11/2016, at 18:25, SOL MATAS <solm...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Colleagues!

1. Attached you can find some little changes in the Cyrillic Italic set.

2. I was working with Small Caps, tomorrow I will prepare some images.

3. Any thoughts about the ‘Brace Trick’ in Glyphs?

Cheers!

Sol.

<Breve_short-cy.png><Chekhakassian-cy.png><Cheverticalstroke-cy.png><Ef-cy-Bulgarian.png><ge-cy.png><Kahook-cy.png><Kaverticalstroke-cy.png>

[Alexei Vanyashin]

I can't agree with the new /б. It introduces modulation that does not conform to the Bitter's character. In this sense I find the original design a better fit. Bitter is a simple, static, and low-modulated typeface. 

If you wish to make /б more `Cyrillic`, you may thin in the middle part of the pennant and add an upward nod in the end. A round inside middle /o-part is better because it is more static and stable. 

Ѵ U+0474 does not require a diacritic

Ѷ U+0476 is not part of GF Cyrillic Plus/Pro Sets. It is a historical (obsolete) glyph last used in 1860.

breve — the original symmetrical breve is more stable, while the new asymmetrical adds dynamics and modulation which is a different font story. 

The wrong-side descender Ӌ was an oversight on my part. Thank you for fixing. 

Other amendments look fine.

cheers,

a

[SOL MATAS]

Thanks a lot Alexei,

You are the best!

Today: I will check this and continue with the Black Cyrillic. 

I’ve been making some changes in the Black Latin so now I need 

to translate that to the Cyrillic set.

Have a nice Friday!

Sol.

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Sol Matas
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

HUERTA TIPOGRÁFICA

s...@huertatipografica.com

huertatipografica.com

facebook.com/huertatipo

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Lausitzerstr. 10, Aufgang C, Einheit sieben

Etage 3, 10999, Berlin

T. (++49) 174 4101524

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[SOL MATAS]

Hi colleagues,

Today I was working on the Thin/Black weights in the upper case - Cyrillic set.

I almost finished.

Tomorrow I will continue with the Thin/Black weights in the lower case - Cyrillic set.

I will post images of the results after the review with the native designer.

Have a nice day,

Sol.

.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*

Sol Matas
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HUERTA TIPOGRÁFICA

s...@huertatipografica.com

huertatipografica.com

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Lausitzerstr. 10, Aufgang C, Einheit sieben

Etage 3, 10999, Berlin

T. (++49) 174 4101524

[SOL MATAS]

Hi colleagues!

Dear Alexei,

I have a doubt about /li-cy/ (Bulgarian)

I was looking into the references you posted on 2nd dDecember

And I found in Arvo the Bulgarian glyph, but I have these doubts:

1. Why is the /li/ Bulgarian different when it has the short or grave accent?

2. I remember (yeeears ago when we designed the first version of Bitter Cyrillic that the /li/ was more like in Arvo (like an flipped /N/ with half serif on the vertical stems where the diagonal is).

My question is: should I go back to that original design of the /li/? and use the actual design for the Bulgarian /li/?

Thanks a lot!

[Alexei Vanyashin]

Hi Sol, 

See this guide from lettersoup for directions on Bulgarian written by a native designer: 

I will need to amend this in Arvo. Thanks for spotting this. 

-a

[SOL MATAS]

Thanks Alexei,

I read that and it helped me to understand better the difference on some Bulgarian glyphs.

Cheers,

Sol

[SOL MATAS]

Dear colleagues,

Last week I completed the cyrillic set (thin + black weights)

This week I am working on the diacritics (vietnamese set)

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Hi Alexei,

Attached you can find some jpg with some specific doubts I have.

Could you please give me some expert feedback? 

Last week I was reading about localisation and analyzing some Cyrillic fonts trying to understand the loc glyphs. =)

Thanks a lot!

Sol.

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Sol Matas
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

HUERTA TIPOGRÁFICA

s...@huertatipografica.com

huertatipografica.com

facebook.com/huertatipo

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Lausitzerstr. 10, Aufgang C, Einheit sieben

Etage 3, 10999, Berlin

T. (++49) 174 4101524

[Alexei Vanyashin]

Regarding the б:

Bottom serifs in /з do not relate to bottom serifs in /c.

There are two conventions for the Serbian ђ (dje-cy).

Middlehook(ҕҧ) glyphs somehow relate to the ђ form, but belong to a different Caucasian language group. 

First, being the j-like straight approach is commonly found in fonts made by non-Serbian speakers. 

The preference among Serbian designers is the rounded form. 

The thickness of the overscore in Serbian glyphs is related to the horizontal bar in ђ. Its lengths should cover the whole body. It is not an accent but an integral part of the letter that disambiguates it from others ( ш !== m(т)  u !== n(п) ).

Other amendments look fine 

[Alexei Vanyashin]

About the Serbian б, have a look at this typeface:

http://www.tipometar.org/aktuelno/akcija!/NocturnoBG/Index.html#

Would like to ask is you will be pushing your updates on github? Marc has found an issue with vertical mertics, but before fixing it is best to sync up to latest sources. 

 

[SOL MATAS]

Thanks your very much Alexei for your very interesting feedback.

I noticed in many fonts what you said about:

Bottom serifs in /з do not relate to bottom serifs in /c.

But when I was looking through slab fonts (designed by native speakers) then I saw that many of these slab fonts they do not have the bottom serif. So I was just trying to find where that decision (keep it or not) comes from, that is the reason why I compared it to de /c/.

About the Serbian ђ (dje-cy), first I draw the rounded option in thin and black weights, but then (again) looking through slab fonts I discovered the straight connection (like h+j) and I was not sure if it was the laziness of drawing a curve or something that matches better with slab style ;P

Thank you very much for your great input.

Cheers!

[Alexei Vanyashin]

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 1:52:38 PM UTC+1, SOL wrote:

Thanks your very much Alexei for your very interesting feedback.

I noticed in many fonts what you said about:

Bottom serifs in /з do not relate to bottom serifs in /c.

But when I was looking through slab fonts (designed by native speakers) then I saw that many of these slab fonts they do not have the bottom serif. So I was just trying to find where that decision (keep it or not) comes from, that is the reason why I compared it to de /c/.

This is a stylistic question that affects aperture openness. I can't explain the intuitive choice logic, but I prefer the bottom double-serif з, it adds more definition and clarity. 

з-serifs are often related to э, but not as a rule. The bottom-serif in г-BGR can go off if you wish. 

About the Serbian ђ (dje-cy), first I draw the rounded option in thin and black weights, but then (again) looking through slab fonts I discovered the straight connection (like h+j) and I was not sure if it was the laziness of drawing a curve or something that matches better with slab style ;P

Also a stylistical question. Even for DIN fonts you will find the same two approaches. 

 

[Thomas Linard]

Hi Sol,

Do you intend to sync your improvements with https://github.com/solmatas/Bitter? Are the new version finished?