Improving Quicksand [Intro + worklog]

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Thomas Jockin

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Jun 29, 2016, 5:57:16 PM6/29/16
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Hello everyone,

With the blessing of Quicksand's designer, Andrew Paglinawa, I'm developing improvements to Quicksand on various fronts.

My background:

Typeface designer for 10 years. Previously worked with Darden Studio, Laura Worthington Type and Delve Fonts. 
I've worked with Starbucks, Foot Locker, Express, Red Hat and other clients.


The general direction of Quicksand's improvements:
• Space Quicksand as a display typeface.
• Add weight between Reg and Bold master.(will require the Reg weight to be lightened to create enough of a visual jump)
• Increase the x-height of the Bold master 
• Introduce slight contrast to strokes. (To remove the "Dipped in Chocolate" look)
• Introduce alternates based on the bauhaus style, which this design is quoting. 


I started a Github fork for Quicksand on my Github account. 

I begun work today on the project. Here's a log summary:
•  Collected the romans into one Glyphs file. Updated Version number, measured stem weights and recorded new values in Dimensions window for all three masters.
• ADHESION level adjustments for Light and Bold Masters
• HAMBURGEDFONTSIV adjustments for Light and Bold Masters

I've attached my current proof PDF of development.

Quicksand_hamburged_06-29-16_B.pdf

Pablo Impallari

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Jun 29, 2016, 6:40:23 PM6/29/16
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Hi Thomas, welcome to GF!
Great improvements suggested. I agree to all.

Would you accept suggestions?

Cheers,
Pablo

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Un Abrazo
Pablo Impallari

Thomas Jockin

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Jun 29, 2016, 6:46:15 PM6/29/16
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Of course! That's where proofs come in :-D
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Pablo Impallari

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Jun 29, 2016, 7:19:10 PM6/29/16
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Ok, lf I have your permission for suggestions, I will proceed.

I love all changes so far, including the modifications and the great idea to add alternates.
But I'm a little uncertain about the tight display spacing in the new Light style (only in the light, the Bold I like it).

In the original, the spacing is way to much exaggerated, I agree on that. Making it tighter is a great decision.
But it also contribute some sort of bizarre personality to the typeface.
It makes Quicksans looks a bit like a monospaced-technical-architect-blueprint sort of thing.
I don't see that soul in the new one any more, its kind of lost.

So.. maybe, testing a new version having the spacing reduced yes, but not so much, can improve the way the font work at display sizes, while also keeping a bit more if its bizarre charm.

This is provably what I will tell to an employee if I'm art directing the project. But of course I'm not art directing the project and I'm not your boss, so.. feel free to completely disagree and totally disregard my comments if you think I'm crazy :)

It may simply be that I also have a personal preference for loosely spaced thin weights, after looking at so many FontFonts Ligth Sans.

Cheers,
Pablo

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Un Abrazo
Pablo Impallari

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Thomas Jockin

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Jun 29, 2016, 7:30:28 PM6/29/16
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Hi Pablo,

That's why we have letter spacing ;-)
I'm only kidding, you're making a fair point. 

Changing the spacing will indeed change the whole character of the design; I take it from Andrew's blessings in this overall direction that a tighter default spacing will improve the usability of the design for users. This was a direction Andrew was thinking about himself when I reviewed his ver.2 files.

With that said, I have a bad habit designing light weight typefaces to tightly in my first pass. 
I'll for sure be loosing the light master in the next pass.

While I have you, how do you feel about the x-height treatment between the masters? 
Are they harmonizing for you?
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Un Abrazo
Pablo Impallari

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Pablo Impallari

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Jun 29, 2016, 7:45:47 PM6/29/16
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> how do you feel about the x-height treatment between the masters?

I don't have any strong preference about that. Proxima is flat, Gotham grows... both are very successful.

For Encode Sans I keep them all at the same line, as Proxima, because I remember some users complaining about "Jumping baselines" in the old Typhophile forum.

Its interesting seeing how normal people react to typographical conventions.
I also had many complains about the "jumping numbers" of Raleway (they way normal people call the old style default numbers).

For Libre Clarendon I'm making the x taller. Let's see how that work out.

So, basically: No preference yet.



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Un Abrazo
Pablo Impallari

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Pablo Impallari

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Dave Crossland

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Jun 29, 2016, 9:42:53 PM6/29/16
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I think the x height adjustment in the bold looks good

Comfortaa is similar and tightly spaced so perhaps making this just a little bit loose and having Comfortaa as a tighter option could work in terms of the collection.

Andrew Paglinawan

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Jun 30, 2016, 7:01:30 AM6/30/16
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I feel where Pablo is coming from.
When I was working with Quicksand version 2, I'm pretty confident that spacing everything tightly will improve it in terms of rhythm and feel not until I received feedbacks about it losing it's charm or soul as Pablo mentioned.

So maybe something along the middle would work out fine as Dave suggested.


Thomas Jockin

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Jul 12, 2016, 9:24:13 PM7/12/16
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Update:

Revised spacing and proportions for Hamburgedfontsiv proof level.
Quicksand_hamburged_07-12-2016_C.pdf

Thomas Jockin

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Jul 14, 2016, 5:16:41 PM7/14/16
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Update:

Proceeded to Alphabet Proof.
Plan on completing numbers + symbols tomorrow.

-TJ
Quicksand_alpha_07-14-2016_B.pdf

Dave Crossland

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Aug 10, 2016, 9:51:56 PM8/10/16
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Hi!

Just to close the loop on this, 

Nhung reviewed Thomas's design and recommended some changes, and in the other thread (https://groups.google.com/d/msg/googlefonts-discuss/KE8i4vnoQRI/N-1tEk_HBwAJ) I said to Nhung, 

DC> Nhung, since Thomas has moved on to new projects, 
DC> please fix the Vietnamese directly :) 
DC> Thomas worked only in the master branch :)

This was done and a Pull Request made and merged:

https://github.com/ThomasJockin/QuicksandFamily/pull/1

Therefore this project is ready to be packaged for shipping 

Cheers
Dave

Marc Foley

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Sep 19, 2016, 6:41:42 AM9/19/16
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Hey folks,

I've forked the main Quicksand repo and downloaded the previous version from GF.

Are the Italics in sources 2.0 going to be used?

In the future, please only include 1 set of sources (hence why they are called sources). If you have a set of sources which are modified from an existing source, they are not sources.

Cheers,
Marc

Marc Foley

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Sep 19, 2016, 6:46:00 AM9/19/16
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I've just looked at the commit history. It appears the Italics may have been an experiment ;) 

It seems Quicksand2.glyphs is what we're after?

Cheers,
Marc

Thomas Jockin

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Sep 19, 2016, 6:54:44 AM9/19/16
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Hi Marc,

Yes, quicksand2.glyphs is what you should look for.

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Marc Foley

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Sep 19, 2016, 7:34:25 AM9/19/16
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Thank you for confirming Mr Jockin. 

I've just tweaked the Vertical Metrics. The colour looks really good!



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Thomas Jockin

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Sep 19, 2016, 8:00:20 AM9/19/16
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Thanks Marc!

It's all about those fundamentals :-)
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Dave Crossland

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Sep 19, 2016, 10:35:56 AM9/19/16
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To confirm, are the issues in https://github.com/google/fonts/issues/72 resolved? :) 

Marc Foley

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Sep 19, 2016, 10:54:49 AM9/19/16
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Mr Jockin smashed it out the stratosphere.

Can confirm no problems.



Jay Chow

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Feb 16, 2018, 12:58:52 PM2/16/18
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Thomas,

Our company is considering using Quicksand as the core text font for a newsletter email. You mentioned that “Space Quicksand as a display typeface.”

Would you recommend using such font for text from 12pt to 16pt for on-screen reading? If not, do you have any suggestion for alternates? I am concerned using rounded terminals glyphs for 14pt or smaller.

Does the font employ any hinting technology at all?

Thank you in advance.

Best regards,

Jay Chow

Dave Crossland

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Feb 19, 2018, 12:25:33 PM2/19/18
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Hi


On Feb 16, 2018 12:58 PM, "Jay Chow" <k.jay...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thomas,

Our company is considering using Quicksand as the core text font for a newsletter email. You mentioned that “Space Quicksand as a display typeface.”

Would you recommend using such font for text from 12pt to 16pt for on-screen reading? 

16pt is ok but 12 maybe too small. But you can use negative css letter-spacing to tighten the spacing if it looks too wide. 

Also note that web fonts don't work in most email clients. 

If not, do you have any suggestion for alternates?

Valera Rounded perhaps

Does the font employ any hinting technology at all?

Yes they are ttfautohint'd :)

Thank you in advance.

Best regards,

Jay Chow


On Wednesday, June 29, 2016 at 4:57:16 PM UTC-5, Thomas Jockin wrote:
Hello everyone,

With the blessing of Quicksand's designer, Andrew Paglinawa, I'm developing improvements to Quicksand on various fronts.

My background:

Typeface designer for 10 years. Previously worked with Darden Studio, Laura Worthington Type and Delve Fonts. 
I've worked with Starbucks, Foot Locker, Express, Red Hat and other clients.


The general direction of Quicksand's improvements:
• Space Quicksand as a display typeface.
• Add weight between Reg and Bold master.(will require the Reg weight to be lightened to create enough of a visual jump)
• Increase the x-height of the Bold master 
• Introduce slight contrast to strokes. (To remove the "Dipped in Chocolate" look)
• Introduce alternates based on the bauhaus style, which this design is quoting. 


I started a Github fork for Quicksand on my Github account. 

I begun work today on the project. Here's a log summary:
•  Collected the romans into one Glyphs file. Updated Version number, measured stem weights and recorded new values in Dimensions window for all three masters.
• ADHESION level adjustments for Light and Bold Masters
• HAMBURGEDFONTSIV adjustments for Light and Bold Masters

I've attached my current proof PDF of development.

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