EB Garamond12

[Octavio Pardo]

Hi! Finally I m sending my first email. I started a few days ago but it took me a little bit to set up the Github environment. I m not much into it

I ll be posting under this subject the evolution of the design for the EB Garamond 12. I am developing the bold master of the font, quite  a work since it is a 3000 glyphs font including cyrillic, greek, and many other extras. 

Here is the first sample of the current state of the bold!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o64n08l4kovjvdi/Captura%20de%20pantalla%202015-09-16%2017.36.01.png?dl=0

I ll keep sending more emails almost daily! Bye!

[Dave Crossland]

Hey

Nice work! Georg, do you think the weight is good?

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Cheers
Dave

[Dave Crossland]

On 16 September 2015 at 12:48, Octavio Pardo <octavi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Here is the first sample of the current state of the bold!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o64n08l4kovjvdi/Captura%20de%20pantalla%202015-09-16%2017.36.01.png?dl=0

Please don't use dropbox, please put all these screenshots and proof PDFs into Github repo. 

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

Octavio, Georg and I had a chat about this online, thought it might be worth
archiving as its a key design decision in the project :)

http://imgur.com/a/Kq38B

[Georg Duffner]

Hi,

Thank you! Nice work indeed!

Am 2015-09-16 um 19:09 schrieb Dave Crossland:
> Hey
>
> Nice work! Georg, do you think the weight is good?

I fear it’s a bit too bold but I’m not sure. It’s difficult for me to
judge from this screenshot. I’d have thought of a stem width at most the
double of the regular font’s stem width (rather a bit less: the \l has a
stem width of 70 so I’ve thought of about 125-135 for the bold). As this
is a body font, bold portions should stand out within a text but not
dominate the whole sheet.

> On 16 September 2015 at 12:48, Octavio Pardo <octavi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi! Finally I m sending my first email. I started a few days ago but it
>> took me a little bit to set up the Github environment. I m not much into it
>>
>> I ll be posting under this subject the evolution of the design for the EB
>> Garamond 12. I am developing the bold master of the font, quite a work
>> since it is a 3000 glyphs font including cyrillic, greek, and many other
>> extras.
>>
>> Here is the first sample of the current state of the bold!
>>
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/o64n08l4kovjvdi/Captura%20de%20pantalla%202015-09-16%2017.36.01.png?dl=0
>>
>> I ll keep sending more emails almost daily! Bye!
>>
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EB Garamond: http://www.georgduffner.at/ebgaramond

[Georg Duffner]

Hi,

As promised in the chat here are the links to the high resolution scans
of the Berner specimen on which EB Garamond 12 is based:

http://tug.org/~rlevien/scan/berner/upper_left.jpg
http://tug.org/~rlevien/scan/berner/upper_right.jpg
http://tug.org/~rlevien/scan/berner/center_left.jpg
http://tug.org/~rlevien/scan/berner/center_right.jpg
http://tug.org/~rlevien/scan/berner/lower_left.jpg
http://tug.org/~rlevien/scan/berner/lower_right.jpg

The fonts are based on the cicero cuts which you can find in the center
left and right parts of the scans.

Best regards,
Georg

[Octavio Pardo]

Hi, Yesterday I forgot to commit the github changes and to send my daily report, so today you are gonna have two days evolution of the project. I printed samples of hamburgefontsiv and I made some corrections (see image). From there I made some tests to find out the right interpolation values (see image); with one or two more tests they will be perfectly defined. After that I moved one with the rest of the lowercase and the uppercase. Next day I will print, make corrections on this new glyphs, check spacing and then move on with accents

bye

[Dave Crossland]

Cool! Where on github is it?

[Octavio Pardo]

"Compositation"

Boring day today, basically turning decomposed glyphs from the regular master into components, so I can do the same in the bold. This is necessary for interpolation. Hopefully in around one or two more days I will have the basic latin accented glyphs in the bold master ready

[Dave Crossland]

How did you convert the source files? 

The SFD sources have composite glyphs:

https://github.com/georgd/EB-Garamond/blob/master/SFD/EBGaramond12-Regular.sfdir/_Acircumflex.glyph

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Cheers
Dave

[Octavio Pardo]

Hi!

Sorry for not having sent any update lately. I moved from Barcelona to Pamplona on Wednesday and I have spent this last days looking for an apartment and a nice place to set up a studio. Everything is sorted out now. In the meantime, since I knew I wouldn t have time to draw and test things properly, I decided to draw the most common accents and start generating the accented glyphs, which is a task that does not require so much printed tests. 

Tomorrow I ll go back to daily updates! 

[Dave Crossland]

Looks great! :) 

[Octavio Pardo]

Cyrillic time today

I started a bit with cyrillic while I keep creating latin accented glyphs. 

[Octavio Pardo]

I ve continued developing all the latin accented glyphs. Latin uppercase is around 75-80% completed

PS: sorry for having been off last days. Flu is killing me. I hope I get better 'case at the end of the week I got a great trip!! :S

PS2: see the image attached. That s the entire UC latin set. In green finished glyphs

[Octavio Pardo]

I ve kept expanding the latin glyphs, mainly uppercase but also a few lc glyphs. I hope latin set will be finished by around the end of this week or next week

[Octavio Pardo]

Sorry, a bit busy lately with external stuff. Uppercase keeps going on, as I said I think latin uppercase will be finished by next week, then I hope I ll finished latin lowercase by the week after and Cyrillic by the beginning of November. Greek seems huge but I m confident I can push it for it to be finished around beginning of December… hopefully!

[Octavio Pardo]

Latin Uppercase almost finished. Due to some design problems in the black master, I added an extra glyph (Udieresis.deu.01) to the set that will have to be managed in production stage, replacing the original one in the new instances by the new one

(as you can see in the images the original Udieresis.deu cannot be expanded to further weights without altering either the position of the dots or their size to an unnaceptable size. I have created that alternate version without serifs in the inside. The original one will be used for the regular weight and then in the heavier instances I will replace it by the new glyph)

 

[Georg Duffner]

Hi Octavio,

I like your solution for the black Udieresis.deu. I struggled already to
get the dieresis in there in the first place. In the beginning the
serifs were a bit wider up there.

[Octavio Pardo]

hi! sorry I have been off a bit but I m in Mexico and connection here is not great, plus I m having serious trouble to enter my google account, don’t know why

latin uppercase is finished and now I am focusing in the latin lowercase. Is quite developed already but I still have several accented glyphs to compose and some others. I m hoping to have the latin lc finished by this next week

Best!

El 19 oct 2015, a las 16:30, Octavio Pardo <octavi...@gmail.com> escribió:

Latin Uppercase almost finished. Due to some design problems in the black master, I added an extra glyph (Udieresis.deu.01) to the set that will have to be managed in production stage, replacing the original one in the new instances by the new one

(as you can see in the images the original Udieresis.deu cannot be expanded to further weights without altering either the position of the dots or their size to an unnaceptable size. I have created that alternate version without serifs in the inside. The original one will be used for the regular weight and then in the heavier instances I will replace it by the new glyph)

<Captura de pantalla 2015-10-19 23.22.47.png>

 

<Captura de pantalla 2015-10-19 23.27.44.png><Captura de pantalla 2015-10-19 23.27.50.png>

[Octavio Pardo]

hi, 

today I kept working in the latin lowercase.

Best!

El 25 oct 2015, a las 21:51, Octavio Pardo <octavi...@gmail.com> escribió:

hi! sorry I have been off a bit but I m in Mexico and connection here is not great, plus I m having serious trouble to enter my google account, don’t know why

latin uppercase is finished and now I am focusing in the latin lowercase. Is quite developed already but I still have several accented glyphs to compose and some others. I m hoping to have the latin lc finished by this next week

Best!

<Captura de pantalla 2015-10-25 21.49.49.png>

[Octavio Pardo]

hi!

since linear development is becoming a bit monotonous I have decided to start changing a bit my approach. Today I jumped from the lowercase to the cyrillic and I m planning to start later on with the small caps. This my delay my initial thought of finishing the lowercase at some point between this week and next but it will not affect my final deadline

best

[Octavio Pardo]

.Ordn .sinf .subs & sups UC finished. Tomorrow I will move on to Small Caps

[Octavio Pardo]

Hi!

Small Caps -including accented- and other similar glyphs finished. Tomorrow I ll be flying back to Spain so I ll be back to daily updates. Next stage in development is going to be finishing the superiors and inferiors (uppercase are already done, now I m gonna move on to lowercase and other symbols)

[Dave Crossland]

Hi Octavio!

Sounds good. Georg, would it be possible for you to do a review of the work done so far in the coming days?

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Cheers
Dave

[Georg Duffner]

Hi Dave, hi Octavio,

this week it’s not possible but next weekend I’ll have time for the review.

Cheers
Georg

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EB Garamond: http://www.georgduffner.at/ebgaramond

[Octavio Pardo]

Hi!

lowercase ordinals and similar glyphs (.sups .subs .sinf) finished. I ll be moving to cyrillic and numerals the next days

[Octavio Pardo]

Hi All!

Greek & Cyrillic (non accented) UC almost finished. Tomorrow I will start focusing in the numerals

[Dave Crossland]

 

Hi Octavio

Where is your github repo for this?

Cheers
Dave

[Octavio Pardo]

Hi, sorry I didn t send an email yesterday, I got super sick at night :S

Numerals and all number related glyphs finished. Now I m beginning with greek lowercase. I m planning to have all the accented greek glyphs by the end of today or tomorrow

[Octavio Pardo]

this is how the alpha roman looks (left), and this is how the bold would have to look (more or less, still working on it). This is one thing I ve been struggling along the entire project. What do you think I should do? do a correct bold or do a compatible bold? (assuming they will be eventually compatible for the interpolation) IF the roman is going to be reviewed in the future I would do the former, if not I would do the latter. 

[Georg Duffner]

Hi Octavio,

I’ve been looking through the bold as far as it’s on Github already and
I like what you have so far, you’re doing great work!

I’ve started to go through your list as well and I think, that you’re
right in many places, especially where composed glyphs weren’t updated
when the base glyph was modified (like for example uni0189).

Different designs between the regular glyphs on one side and the
small-caps, superiors and ligatures on the other are deliberate and
follow historical sources (where available, especially sc and
ligatures). The same goes for design decisions like in the figures
(narrow 3 and 5, wide 7 and 4, 2 with huge tail).

The Greek is definitely a part of the font that needs lots of attention
(it’s marked as “probably has to be redone” on my homepage and I already
asked if it could be reviewed a long time ago...). In its current form
it’s based on an unslanted version of a subset of the Grècques du Roi
(the initial version is in the italic font).

I don’t agree with the statement that tonos needs to be less slanted
than acute and grave. While many fonts show this difference it’s not at
all mandatory.

The Cyrillic has been reviewed already but only the modern Russian glyphs.

The .pc set is a project I started some time ago to add a petite caps
set aligned with x-height. I haven’t got far with it yet, therefore the
different heights.

The lc.sc set helps to preserve case in applications that rely on glyph
names. If you replaced lc with uc.sc in such applications you’d
copy/paste uc letters instead of the originally intended lc.

I will still need some time to go through your list systematically. But
I’d agree with you that reviewing the regular wouldn’t be a bad idea.

Best regards
Georg

[Dave Crossland]

On 26 November 2015 at 16:57, Octavio Pardo <octavi...@gmail.com> wrote:

this is how the alpha roman looks (left), and this is how the bold would have to look (more or less, still working on it). This is one thing I ve been struggling along the entire project. What do you think I should do? do a correct bold or do a compatible bold? (assuming they will be eventually compatible for the interpolation) IF the roman is going to be reviewed in the future I would do the former, if not I would do the latter. 

I suggest in most cases to make a correct bold; and not worry tooooo much about interpolation compatibility; the roman will surely need to be revised in the future, and interpolation compatibility can be done at that stage. 

Please make the bold the best you can, so that this can do its job well as a latin companion to non-latin fonts :) 

 

On Tue, 24 Nov 2015 at 10:15 Octavio Pardo <octavi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi, sorry I didn t send an email yesterday, I got super sick at night :S

Numerals and all number related glyphs finished. Now I m beginning with greek lowercase. I m planning to have all the accented greek glyphs by the end of today or tomorrow

On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 at 00:20 Octavio Pardo <octavi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi All!

Greek & Cyrillic (non accented) UC almost finished. Tomorrow I will start focusing in the numerals

On Fri, 13 Nov 2015 at 17:59 Octavio Pardo <octavi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi!

lowercase ordinals and similar glyphs (.sups .subs .sinf) finished. I ll be moving to cyrillic and numerals the next days

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 at 04:16 Octavio Pardo <octavi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi!

Small Caps -including accented- and other similar glyphs finished. Tomorrow I ll be flying back to Spain so I ll be back to daily updates. Next stage in development is going to be finishing the superiors and inferiors (uppercase are already done, now I m gonna move on to lowercase and other symbols)

On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 at 22:05 Octavio Pardo <octavi...@gmail.com> wrote:

.Ordn .sinf .subs & sups UC finished. Tomorrow I will move on to Small Caps

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Cheers
Dave

[Octavio Pardo]

Punctuation almost completely finished. Greek and Cyrillic caps ready, to be finished. Latin lower case. Still needs a bit more work. Most of the common glyphs are finished, I still need to work a bit in the most uncommon. 

[Octavio Pardo]

Cyrillic completely finished. Greek almost; on my way to finish all the accented glyphs, uppercase all done except for a glyph. I still have some work in the lowercase. Latin is missing a couple of dozens of the uncommon glyphs…

[Octavio Pardo]

Almost everything finished except some symbols, few greek glyphs and random latin letters.

[Octavio Pardo]

All the glyphs finished. For few days already focusing on hardcore testing and fixing things here and there

[Octavio Pardo]

I just uploaded the font with the xbold master kerned (latin lc, UC, Small cap, figures, etc). I still need to review it and a few other exceptional glyphs but I am ready to meet to discuss the last details of the project

[Dave Crossland]

On 12 January 2016 at 13:42, Octavio Pardo <octavi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I just uploaded the font with the xbold master kerned (latin lc, UC, Small cap, figures, etc). I still need to review it and a few other exceptional glyphs but I am ready to meet to discuss the last details of the project

Great stuff! 

[Georg Duffner]

For the sake of completeness, here’s my review that I mailed Octavio
yesterday:


Thanks for your work! It looks better than I would have thought an
extrabold Garamond could look.
Here some observations which we could talk about:

G: the top right seems unbalanced, it should be retracted a bit.
c and e: they have a very big foot.
uni0259: the opening should be wider.
Hbar and similar: the bar should perhaps extend a bit further beyond the
stem.
U: unbalanced bowl (same in the regular).
uni01A7 and uni01A8: these should follow the same design principles as
the other glyphs in the font. Currently EBG 12 Xbold shows a turnd S/s
which results in wrong axes and looks unbalanced.
w.superior: it looks currently more like two v’s. Could it be made to
look more like one letter (move the two halfs closer to each other so
the diagonals meet at a lower point and shorten the serifs)?
uni0223: I don’t know, it somehow lacks a bit of contrast?
uni0281: this should show the same axis as the other round glyphs.
currently it shows the axis of a flipped glyph.
uni0292: the lower left should perhaps be moved a bit further left.
uni0298: the dot is not centered in the pdf. It’s fine in the ufo.
uni1E1F: the dot is a bit too far left.
uni1E73: the dots are too close to the u.
uni1E9B: the dot is a bit too far left in the pdf. It’s fine in the ufo.
c_t: the top right of c is too close to the t. It’s better to change the
design of c similar as in the regular (not my invention but the original
solution of Garamont).
ldot.sc: the dot should be moved a bit higher to avoid collision with
the serif.
uni03D9: the stem should probably show a bit more contrast. The same gos
for uni03DD.
four.lnum: the diagonal should be longer so it reaches above the
vertical stem.
zero_ should have a bit less contrast. Currently it looks more like an o.
uni203D: in the pdf it is barely recognisable. It probably needs an
altered design of the questionmark.
Flags will be removed from EBG12Regular, they should find a new home in
an EB Garamond Symbols font.
I don’t like the bold versions of the aldusleafs (uni2619, uni2619.01
and derivates thereof). I’m not sure they should be embolded at all.

Cheers
Georg

[Georg Duffner]

In our call we discussed the shape of the proportional oldstyle zero.
I’d like it to show very little contrast, closer to but not really a
perfect ring shape (see attachment).

[Octavio Pardo]

Hi Everyone

I jumped again into the project! Now I will be focusing in the italics. I Started setting up vertical metrics, multiple master doc and began drawing some characters and accents, mainly uppercase. I also tweaked some of the points in the original italic that were not "orthogonal". Finally I am going to adjust the spacing too. Previous software apps didn t give you the chance to slant the sidebearings, so spacing italic projects was pretty difficult. Nowadays, by doing so, metrics in the italics end up being quite similar to the upright ones. See in the images attached how spacing looks consisten but a letter like "H" with similar contours at both sides, is in fact off center the glyph box. Spacing looks consistent because this deviation is common in all the glyphs. 

[Octavio Pardo]

This last days I have been focusing mainly in the caps and in the accents for the caps. Usually I would follow a different order of development but this font has an immense set of accents, and using components I have the feeling I move fast. Plus you don t increase the amount of glyphs that must be tested and adjusted. 

Latin Upper case is almost finished and I am starting now with the lower case. I am starting with the basic Reading set 'adhesion'. As everyone familiar with this word knows, it defines the basics of the entire lower case alphabet except for the 'g' and the letters with diagonals. However in the case of EB Garamond this is not that accurate. EB Garamond somehow emulates the effect of the ink over the paper and to reach this effect succesfully letters must have a nice balance between common features and different ones. Steams, serifs, outstrokes… they all vary a little bit.

[Dave Crossland]

Great! Please share some before/after images :) 

[Alexei Vanyashin]

Hi Octavio,

A few notes on Cyrillic,

This is an Italic Didone-style Cyrillic breve. 

Typeface: Old Standard

Could you adjust the form to look more like:

The terminals of /r /л /к /y could be good references for matching this shape. 

The dieresis accents are very tight for Cyrillic caps. Is this a font-wide feature? 

[Octavio Pardo]

Hi

Today I expanded the "reading set" adhesion into "hamburgefontsivcld". I spent quite long time in the 'g'. EB Garamond lower case 'g' is quite nice, with a very narrow head and a quite wide tail. It is a nice challenge to get the italic bold look good. I also started with the lowercase accents. Either tomorrow or the day after I am planning to do a good set of primtouts to test and refine all I have done so far- 

[Dave Crossland]

Nice! Please confirm the Masters and instances you are working on for the next 2 months, it would be great to see a N-up image of all the instances designs in a grid :)

[Octavio Pardo]

Today I spent some time drawing hamburgefontsivcld, printing some tests and adjusting the letters over an over. 

So since the day was not that interesting I am going to show one of the most typical corrections I ve been doing over and over. I am attaching two screenshots showing the bottom outstroke of lowercase 's'. One of the screenshots has an extra point in the detail of the letter. That point is necessary every time you have an outstroke like the one in the 's'. The reason why you should do it is to make sure the renderization of the letter is as accurate as possible

 

[Dave Crossland]

On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Octavio Pardo <octavi...@gmail.com> wrote:

That point is necessary every time you have an outstroke like the one in the 's'. The reason why you should do it is to make sure the renderization of the letter is as accurate as possible

Great! This is especially important for interpolating instances, and Variations Fonts :)

[Christian Thalmann]

Doesn't Glyphs add inflection points upon export?  I seem to remember from the Glyphs staff that not putting those points in the masters actually helps keeping the interpolations smooth.

Also, shouldn't the italics have slanted rather than vertical extreme points?

I'm a big fan of EB Garamond; looking forward to the Bold.

[Dave Crossland]

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Christian Thalmann <christian.d.thalmann@gmail.com> wrote:

Doesn't Glyphs add inflection points upon export?  I seem to remember from the Glyphs staff that not putting those points in the masters actually helps keeping the interpolations smooth.

Please can someone test and verify this, would be important to know as its has filesize impact

 

Also, shouldn't the italics have slanted rather than vertical extreme points?

I don't think so - Erin?

 

I'm a big fan of EB Garamond; looking forward to the Bold

:D 

[Erin McLaughlin]

 

Also, shouldn't the italics have slanted rather than vertical extreme points?

I don't think so - Erin?

 

Haha, what!? You already know my opinion on this, Dave! :)  My non-Google colleagues all use non-slanted extreme points, as Octavio shows in his sample above.

But Dave has informed me that slanted wouldn't matter for us because we're making .ttfs for the web, not a post-script rendering. I'm not technical enough to know how to explain this in more detail though!

 

[Jacques Le Bailly]

Haha, what!? You already know my opinion on this, Dave! :)  My non-Google colleagues all use non-slanted extreme points, as Octavio shows in his sample above.

But Dave has informed me that slanted wouldn't matter for us because we're making .ttfs for the web, not a post-script rendering. I'm not technical enough to know how to explain this in more detail though!

When working on Italics or Obliques, I doing it the oldskool way: Extremes at n*90° (non slanted). But I would be more than interested if slanted extremes would work as well. It would safe a lot of time.

[Dave Crossland]

On 4 November 2016 at 18:15, Jacques Le Bailly <fonth...@gmail.com> wrote:

When working on Italics or Obliques, I doing it the oldskool way: Extremes at n*90° (non slanted). But I would be more than interested if slanted extremes would work as well. It would safe a lot of time.

I think "place points at extrema and remove unneeded points (keeping curves 1:1 the same)" should be an automatic export step applied to export formats that need it (eg, OTF) and not applied to formats that don't (eg TTF) 

I think n*90' extrema handles in italics will definitely cause problems for TTF-flavor variation fonts.

[Christian Thalmann]

On Friday, November 4, 2016 at 11:15:28 PM UTC+1, Jacques Le Bailly wrote:

When working on Italics or Obliques, I doing it the oldskool way: Extremes at n*90° (non slanted). But I would be more than interested if slanted extremes would work as well. It would safe a lot of time.

Huh. I thought that since Glyphs measures sidebearings in a tilted coordinate system, you'd get fuzzy numbers and throw off the autohinter if you stuck to vertical extremes. Actually, I feel switching to verticals would save me time, since things like control-alt-nudge does freaky things to nearby non-vertical handles, whereas verticals stay vertical...

I wonder what the official stance of the Glyphs team is on this?

[Dave Crossland]

On 4 November 2016 at 18:42, Christian Thalmann <christian....@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, November 4, 2016 at 11:15:28 PM UTC+1, Jacques Le Bailly wrote:

When working on Italics or Obliques, I doing it the oldskool way: Extremes at n*90° (non slanted). But I would be more than interested if slanted extremes would work as well. It would safe a lot of time.

Huh. I thought that since Glyphs measures sidebearings in a tilted coordinate system, you'd get fuzzy numbers and through off the autohinter if you stuck to vertical extremes. Actually, I feel switching to verticals would save me time, since things like control-alt-nudge does freaky things to nearby non-vertical handles, whereas verticals stay vertical...

Needs research! :) Octavio, would be grand if you can figure this out :D  

[Christian Thalmann]

Georg answered on the Glyphs forums:

https://forum.glyphsapp.com/t/extreme-points-in-italics-vertical-or-slanted/5316

[Dave Crossland]

Thanks Christian! :) 

[Octavio Pardo]

This last two days have been mostly about correcting hamburgefontsivcld in both lower case and upper case. This stage is crucial and is not a good idea to go on without being 100% sure this glyps are fine. Any potential problem that I do not solve now might spread eventually to the entire font as a virus.  

[Dave Crossland]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 8:24 PM, Octavio Pardo <octavi...@gmail.com> wrote:

This last two days have been mostly about correcting hamburgefontsivcld in both lower case and upper case. This stage is crucial and is not a good idea to go on without being 100% sure this glyps are fine. Any potential problem that I do not solve now might spread eventually to the entire font as a virus.  

Before you continue, please can you show us the corrections you made yesterday?

[Octavio Pardo]

The last two days I ve developed the rest of the lowercase and some more accents athought I still need to adjust many things. In the next days I am going to work in parallel composing and generating the rest of the latin set (with all the accents and so on) while I keep adjusting the main glyphs and testing them next to the roman.

[Dave Crossland]

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 1:03 PM, Octavio Pardo <octavi...@gmail.com> wrote:

The last two days I ve developed the rest of the lowercase and some more accents athought I still need to adjust many things. In the next days I am going to work in parallel composing and generating the rest of the latin set (with all the accents and so on) while I keep adjusting the main glyphs and testing them next to the roman

Before you continue, please can you show us the corrections you made in the last days? 

Cheers,
Dave

[Octavio Pardo]

Of course!

First thing I did was reviewing the regular and adjusting it to "my taste". George has done an awesome job but I wanted to do some little micro adjustments here and there 

S is the glyph that I ve changed the most from the original source

[Octavio Pardo]

Then I reviewed my own drawings, my first round was not very successful. I had to adjust almost all the thin strokes and most of the features of the letters. This is the kind of stuff that looks ok in screen and in a big size but at 12 pt does not work. In that sense, the fact that the font is intended for 12pt helps a lot because, although at the end it has to look as good as possible in every size, 12pt is the priority.

Eb Garamod is a huge challenge in that sense because since the steams are kind of different from one letter to the other, they need to look good and consistent and alive at the same time. That is one of the biggest challenges you can face if you are drawing a text font. This are still samples from my first round of drawings… As I said, not very succesful. Xbold is a tough style for a text font.

Second round of drawings, in this case I have moved from hamburgefontsivcld to the entire alphabet 

My own drawings needed still more adjustments in the second round than the original italic. Most of the changes now are meant to reduce the darkness of the letters, specially the Upper Case with diagonals which were obviously too thick. You could point this letters individually looking at a paragraph and that is something you must avoid when designing a typeface. A paragraph must look even

Final Round for the bold

[Octavio Pardo]

This last two days I have been working in the Small Caps. Tomorrow and the day after I will be doing hardcore testing and adjusting so I will be sending print outs

[Dave Crossland]

On 14 November 2016 at 19:12, Octavio Pardo <octavi...@gmail.com> wrote:

This last two days I have been working in the Small Caps. Tomorrow and the day after I will be doing hardcore testing and adjusting so I will be sending print outs

The print out images were great to see your process :) However what I really want is before/after images made of screenshots of Glyphs, where you have the original font and a text string and make a screenshot, then have the latest font and the same string and screenshot, and then make them into a GIF that toggles so we can see :)

[Octavio Pardo]

Last two days I have been focusing in the Small Caps. Since most of the visual features are already defined in the upright, usually when it comes to the italic is juts a matter of balacing steams, outstrokes and serifs. Here is the first test of the regular 

As you can see main problems were the diagonals. Also rounded letters. When it comes to rounded letters it seems that you have to pay atention only to the thickness of the thickest and the thinnest parts. However transition between those parts is just as important. In this case, transition happens too quickly so the letter, although the thick and the thin strokes have the right weight, it seems light in the print outs.

About the diagonals, it s really hard to see if they are properly balanced at this size, you need to see them at text size (11-14pt) to notice if they are darker than the rest or not…

In the xbold I had to focus in the same issues plus an extra one: in my first round, details of some letters were creating an alignment problem. Letters that were supossed to overshoot a little bit actually seemed shorter than others. The probem was not in those letters but in others, mainly 'A.sc' and 'T.sc' which outstrokes were too high. Because of that, 'S.sc' that many times is sitted next to an 'A.sc' or a 'T.sc' seemed small. 

Second round of tests fixed many of this problems (not all of them) and made more obvious some others like the lack of baance in the steams of some of the letters and the problems with the direction of the diagonals in 'K.sc' and 'X.sc', which were creating huge white gaps. Also, in the Xbold, 'B.sc' countershape was too thin, making the letter look too dark on text.

[Octavio Pardo]

This last two days I ve been focusing in the design of the superiors (alphabetic, so far). EB Garamond 12 has a huge set of superiors both UC and LC, which is not exceptional but is not very common neither. The methodology of drawing them is similar to the Upper Case and the Lower case and I am going to test them the same way. The only difference is that the spacing has to be proportionally more open, since it s always going to be set in a smaller size than the UC&LC. Tomorrow I will show the testing sheets with corrections

[Octavio Pardo]

Last days I ve been focusing in the design of the superiors. I already started with the numerals but I am going to show you printed samples only of my corrections over the lettes, both uppercase and lowercase. Next time I will show you numerals and other signs. As I said EB Garamond has a huge set of superscripts.My first round adjusting the roman was not very succesful again. Uppercase was more or less fine, but lowercase was too dark. Independently both sets were fine but they couldn t work together so I had to readjust the lowercase. Also, some details like the drop of the 'J' had to be exagerated a bit and diagonals must be adjusted. 

Check how obvious is the difference of weight in both sets in the following image 

My first round with the xbold was much better. The weight of the hole set of letters was much more harmonic but of course some adjustments had to be done

apart of the letters with diagonals main issues were letter B (too dark and a bit narrow), M (same issues) and T, which top strokes made the letter look too big compared with the glyphs around it. Also 'W' didn t work at all and had to be redrawn with a different structure, much more similar to the roman than to the italic because the letter looked too massive on a paragraph. 

[Octavio Pardo]

Second round of tests was much more succesful. Roman looked much better but I still had to reduce the weight in some details of the letters that looked a touch too dark yet. Angle of the 'o' had to be corrected and curves had to be refined. 

Second round of Xbold was pretty nice. Letter B still was too massive and the head of g, although looked fine at this size, looked too heavy at 12pt, so by decreasing the size of the head, we make the letter look a touch lighter. 'M' steams were maybe slightly too heavy but since the letter was narrow, it looked even heavier. Lowercase 'm' needed a big optical adjustment of the counter shape and also of the thickness of the steams to make it seem same weight as the rest of letters. 

[Octavio Pardo]

Hi All,

Here are a few gifs where you can see the before and after of the changes I have done to the italic so far. Notice that my version is a WIP with no kerning yet 

[Octavio Pardo]

Sorry!, just noticed than some of the gifs do not loop, here they are again

[Octavio Pardo]

Last days I have been working in the numeral superiors and I have started cyrillic. This week I ll send images o my tests and corrections

[Octavio Pardo]

Today I drawn some more cyrillic glyphs and kept working in some of the superscripts. I have decided to change and update my cyrillic test sheets to match a renewal I recently did with my latin's. I will try to send some more images and gifs this week.

[Thomas Linard]

Hi,

Last commit on https://github.com/octaviopardo/EBGaramond12 was 25 days ago. Is there any news?

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

I had a quick chat with Octavio and the project is still progressing... Octavio please sync your local repo with Github :) 

Cheers,
Dave

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[Thomas Linard]

Very good news! And I checked the sources, the new EB Garamond12 will be a nice addition to the GF supporting Extended Greek!

[Octavio Pardo]

So! In the next month this is my planning to finish the font:

right now the italic is completely drawn in the heaviest weight, except for the ligatures. However, the original upright styles drawn by Georg had around 500 glyphs more (logically, since the italic styles were never completely finished) so I am adding all the ones that are missing in the italic like greek small caps for example. Also many of the existing glyphs were in the font but were not constructed in the right way, like the Celsius or the Farenheit glyphs, so I am almost reviewing every single exceptional glyph unicode and comparing it with other fonts (like Times or DejaVu serif) to make sure they are built properly. That is taking quite a lot of time. In this process I am also adjusting some glyphs that were already finished in both the upright and the italic.

Next step will be refining the design of many of the symbols optimized for the small caps like question marks, parenthesis and so on, right now they are merely a copy of the regular ones.

FInally I will create a Open Type Code to allow the user the access to the huge collection of glyphs and alternates. Georg did a great humongous job with this font but the only way to access many of the glyphs is via the glyph pallette in indesign. We should change that!!

Attached, an screenshot of Farenheit & Celsius glyphs properly constructed (previousy they didn t have the degree symbol) and the letter you see there is not eng, but modifier eng (U+1D51) that is suposed to be a superscript. EB is a great font but also very huge! I feel like it is a never ending project. There are always things to adjust…

On Wed, 25 Jan 2017 at 18:12 Dave Crossland <dcros...@google.com> wrote:

Hi

I had a quick chat with Octavio and the project is still progressing... Octavio please sync your local repo with Github :) 

Cheers,
Dave

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Thomas Linard <thli...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Last commit on https://github.com/octaviopardo/EBGaramond12 was 25 days ago. Is there any news?

Le jeudi 1 décembre 2016 00:51:59 UTC+1, Octavio Pardo a écrit :

Today I drawn some more cyrillic glyphs and kept working in some of the superscripts. I have decided to change and update my cyrillic test sheets to match a renewal I recently did with my latin's. I will try to send some more images and gifs this week.

On Mon, 28 Nov 2016 at 23:23 Octavio Pardo <octavi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Last days I have been working in the numeral superiors and I have started cyrillic. This week I ll send images o my tests and corrections

On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 at 09:42 Octavio Pardo <octavi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry!, just noticed than some of the gifs do not loop, here they are again

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[Thomas Linard]

Hi Octavio,

The Google Fonts Greek Glyphs Sets have been released, you can use them now.

[Thomas Linard]

Hi Octavio,

I saw your new commit on your repo. Great work!! Sorry to bother you after such a good job, but for future reference, when you will be working on this project again:

• Latin Plus 97% 541 of 555 missing 14 ("‰" U+2030,"₡" U+20a1,"₣" U+20a3,"₤" U+20a4,"₦" U+20a6,"₧" U+20a7,"₩" U+20a9,"₭" U+20ad,"₱" U+20b1,"₵" U+20b5,"₺" U+20ba,"₼" U+20bc,"₽" U+20bd,"≈" U+2248)
• Latin Pro 93% 107 of 115 missing 8 ("ɰ" U+0270,"℮" U+212e,"∂" U+2202,"∅" U+2205,"∑" U+2211,"√" U+221a,"∫" U+222b,"◊" U+25ca)
• Latin Expert 18% 4 of 22 missing 18 ("⅓" U+2153,"⅔" U+2154,"⅛" U+215b,"⅜" U+215c,"⅝" U+215d,"⅞" U+215e,"■" U+25a0,"□" U+25a1,"▲" U+25b2,"△" U+25b3,"▶" U+25b6,"▷" U+25b7,"▼" U+25bc,"▽" U+25bd,"◀" U+25c0,"◁" U+25c1,"◆" U+25c6,"◇" U+25c7)
• Cyrillic Plus 81% 154 of 190 skipped: 0 missing 36 ("Ѫ" U+046a,"ѫ" U+046b,"Ғ" U+0492,"ғ" U+0493,"Җ" U+0496,"җ" U+0497,"Ҙ" U+0498,"ҙ" U+0499,"Қ" U+049a,"қ" U+049b,"Ҝ" U+049c,"ҝ" U+049d,"Ҡ" U+04a0,"ҡ" U+04a1,"Ң" U+04a2,"ң" U+04a3,"Ҥ" U+04a4,"ҥ" U+04a5,"Ҫ" U+04aa,"ҫ" U+04ab,"Ҳ" U+04b2,"ҳ" U+04b3,"Ҷ" U+04b6,"ҷ" U+04b7,"Ҹ" U+04b8,"ҹ" U+04b9,"Һ" U+04ba,"һ" U+04bb,"Ӌ" U+04cb,"ӌ" U+04cc … and 6 more)
• Greek Core 96% 74 of 77 skipped: 0 missing 3 ("͵" U+0375,"Ϗ" U+03cf,"ϗ" U+03d7)
• Greek Plus 99% 236 of 238 missing 2 ("ͺ" U+037a,"ι" U+1fbe)

https://graphicore.github.io/mdlFontSpecimen/html/language-coverage-details.html