Exo 2 Extension Cyrillic Pro and Latin Pro

[Joana Silva]

Hello everyone, 

Here is the report for Monday 14 November.

- We prepared the files with the character set both for Latin and Cyrillic. 

- We hired a designer to help on the project. 

- We gathered some resources for the Cyrillic to have references for the extended character set. 

Joana and Nate  

[Joana Silva]

Hi, 

Tuesday we developed the Light Master extension for Cyrillic character set uppercase letters. The green characters are the new ones. 

There are some doubts about some letters. Specially 

if the curve on the ending of the shape is enough for this letter. 

- For tomorrow we will continue on finishing Light and start with Regular and Bold master for the uppercase letters. 

Joana 

[Joana Silva]

Hello, 

Today we worked on the uppercase correcting some letters on the Light Master.

We added characters to the Regular Master. Here are a few of them.

Tomorrow we will post the improvements on the Light and Regular. 

We will continue with uppercase on the Regular Master uppercase.

Joana

[Alexei Vanyashin]

There are some doubts about some letters. Specially 

if the curve on the ending of the shape is enough for this letter. 

Hi Joana, 

Thank you for your update on the Cyrillic progress. 

Could you please send a github link, so I can provide a more detailed review?

Your doubts on Ѵ are not groundless. The curve is indeed not pronounced enough. Good practice would be to sharper the angle of the right stem to allow space for a more sound curve. 

Here is a sample reference from Lato.

Black: V

Blue: Ѵ

 

[Joana Silva]

Hi, 

Today we finished the uppercase of the Cyrillic on the three masters. We will use them as a basis for the uppercase. 

Tomorrow we will still review a few things on it and Alexei feedback will be great. The font is on Github. 

Tomorrow we will review together the uppercase. 

Best, 

Joana

[Joana Silva]

This letter feels better now.

[Alexei Vanyashin]

Yes, this ѵ is much better.

Please send me a link to the github repo. 

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[Dave Crossland]

On 17 November 2016 at 20:02, Alexei Vanyashin <a...@cyreal.org> wrote:

Please send me a link to the github repo. 

https://github.com/NDISCOVER/Exo-2.0

[Joana Silva]

Hello, 

Today we worked on the Latin Extension on the Light Master. You can see on the PDF attached.

On the Cyrillic we are waiting for some feedback from Alexei to move to the lowercase that we will start Monday. 

Have a nice weekend! 

Joana 

[Alexei Vanyashin]

I am attaching a review of the Extended Cyrillic glyphs. For some of the mentioned glyphs I made a 'corrected' layer in the Bold master. You may use it a guide for amending other masters. I will make a Pull Request to your git repo with the updated Glyphs file. 

I wonder if you will be using HT LetterSpacer to space the newly designed glyphs? I found it useful, and time-saving in another project. Otherwise more manual attention is needed to metrics. 

[Alexei Vanyashin]

Here is a PR with corrected glyphs ѢҜӋӠӺҤ:

https://github.com/NDISCOVER/Exo-2.0/pull/1

[Natanael Gama]

Updates from today:
- merged alexei proposals along with the corrections he suggested me to make on all masters
- a few refinements here and there
- started spacing the new characters, experimenting the HT letterspacer script.

- continuing adding the new characters on the latin

Tomorrow:
- start lowercase cyrillic design

[Natanael Gama]

Hey Guys: lowercase developments. still on an early stage, at the end of the week I will send to Alexei for review.

[Alexei Vanyashin]

You have inherited a naming mismatch from the development version of Raleway, that I haven't fixed yet. My mistake, sorry. 

To fix it please rename this glyph to zedescender-cy.loclBSH. The bottom hook should originate from and connect to the base з glyph. 

for zedescender-cy simply use the same descender as in ҫ (esdescender-cy)

In ҩ and Ҩ both ovals should be equal in hight and touch the cap height. 

[Joana Silva]

Hi, 

Yesterday we finished the lowercase and uppercase Cyrillic for the Light, Regular and Bold. 

Tomorrow we will add the reviews that Alexei shows here. 

Tomorrow also the Latin Extension design will be finished and will be reviewed next week. 

Next week we will post the updated version on Github. 

Best, 

Joana 

[Natanael Gama]

Hello!

Today we've done the cyrillic spacing and kerning classes for the new glyphs.
The latin was reviewed (It is being made by a colaborator) and it is not yet good to integrate into the file we are working, however it is pretty close.
I expect that this week we have one single file with all the characters designed.

Tomorrow we start on the italic design

Cheers

[Joana Silva]

Hello, 

Today we designed the uppercase and lowercase Italic on the 3 masters. 

Tomorrow we will review spacing and kerning for the Italic.

Cheers! 

[Alexei Vanyashin]

Hi Joana, 

If you are ready for a Cyrillic review, please upload the Italic source files on git. Here are comments from what I see on your image. I would like to take a closer look at the sources to give you more detailed feedback. 

On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 7:51 PM Natanael Gama <nat...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello!

Today we've done the cyrillic spacing and kerning classes for the new glyphs.

Here is a script for setting kerning groups in the GF Latin + Cyrillic Plus ranges. Manual revision is required after running it. 

For kerning here is a list of Core Cyrillic kern pairs.  

 

[Joana Silva]

Hi Alexei, 

Thank you for the corrections. 

Today, we reviewed the new accents on the Latin extension and made some corrections.

We also worked on the spacing of the Regular and preparing for the kerning of new pairs for Cyrillic. 

We worked on the Latin Extension Italic. 

Monday we will continue with corrections on both Latin and Cyrillic.

More updates soon. 

Best, 

[Alexei Vanyashin]

Hi Juana, 

Can you upload the source files on git or post them in this thread?

I have more comments on Cyrillic, but it isn't handy to comment on this sole jpg image. 

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[Natanael Gama]

Hi Alexei,

Now both italic and upright are on github.
Feel free to comment.

About the flat top we followed the pt sans design on that regard, we are open to new input however. 

we are working at this moment on this:
- Finalising the Latin Italic Masters
- Doublecheck spacing and kerning on Upright

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[Dave Crossland]

Great stuff Natanael and Joana! Thank you Alexei!

[Alexei Vanyashin]

Nataniel, 

[A] is possible if you disambiguate it further from /m by lowering the middlehook. Middlehook should be a separate stroke, unconnected to the top of the n-part. For better legibility slanted variants [B] and [C] are possible solutions. I recall there was another similar exception in your Cyrillic design. 

Please recheck that you have synced github after your commit. The latest commit I see is 16 days old.

 

[Alexei Vanyashin]

[Natanael Gama]

Sorry alexei, I was not synching, just moving to the mac app github folder. 

I think now everything is pretty much finished, only kerning and spacing missing from the italic.
Feel free to make all the comments, the file is now on github.

on that specific shape, if it is not yet improved it will soon, but i think we will remain with the 'n like' shape to keep consistency. 

Thanks!

you can check now.

quarta-feira, 7 de Dezembro de 2016 às 09:56:58 UTC, Alexei Vanyashin escreveu:

[Alexei Vanyashin]

I see the files now, thanks.

[Dave Crossland]

Great success

[Joana Silva]

Hi Dave and Alexei, 

The files are on Github, and today we did some testing on the Open Type Features, Vertical Metrics. 

Right now it's finished. We are just waiting on some extra comments from Alexei. 

Thank you Dave! We really enjoyed working on Exo. 

Best, 

Em terça-feira, 13 de dezembro de 2016 22:53:46 UTC, Dave Crossland escreveu:

Great success

[Alexei Vanyashin]

I have briefly inspected the sources. Will have a closer look tomorrow. 

These glyphs are missing:

apostrophemod

gravecomb

hryvnia

tenge

tugrik

Issue with ze descender is still not fixed. See my previous comments. 

ҧ pemiddlehook > the middlehook-part should start lower. Relate to ҕ. 

ҧ Italic. 

Still looks like /m. The middlehook-part  should start much lower. 

[Alexei Vanyashin]

At a closer look I found two Cyrillic-related issues, while other problems are plain oversights. 

Please, before you submit your work for review, do set the metrics. For example RSB of ң should be equal to ц, and LSBs of Ӆ to Л. It is hard to judge the design without proper attention to metrics. I encourage that metrics should be done from the outset as an integral part of the design. 

Glyph set issue.

If you include ҙ uni0499.loclBSH, so should you add full Bashkir and Chuvash localized support in these glyphs:

Ғ uni0492.loclBSH

ғ uni0493.loclBSH

Ҙ uni0498.loclBSH

ҙ uni0499.loclBSH

Ҫ uni04AA.loclBSH

ҫ uni04AB.loclBSH

Ҫ uni04AA.loclCHU

ҫ uni04AB.loclCHU

If not, remove uni0499.loclBSH.

1. Ҩ can be challenging. It is important to keep the same counter form in all weights. This can be achieved with compensations and shifts, see sample below.

2.

3. General issues.

Consistency in descenders. Coordinate Ҷ with Ң, and other descender-based glyphs. 

Ӆ Eltail-cy needs stronger angle in the Bold master. Can be mistaken for a descender. 

Coordinate descender length in diagonals, and Ӌ.

[Natanael Gama]

Thank you Alexei. 

We are now working on those improvements, expect on Monday to have a (near) final version for just a last review.

Those characters that you refer that need to be included are not in the filter list on github correct? Because we build the encoding based on those lists.

On regard to spacing I am also a bit puzzled. I used HT Letterspacer, but the results weren't has good as I expected. Maybe I messed up the values, but I wasn't very satisfied with the results, I had inconsistent values in similar shapes.

Anyway, we are following your advises.

Cheers

[Alexei Vanyashin]

Those characters that you refer that need to be included are not in the filter list on github correct? Because we build the encoding based on those lists.

These glyphs are from an optional LOCL glyph list. Either support it fully, or don't support at all. 

 

On regard to spacing I am also a bit puzzled. I used HT Letterspacer, but the results weren't has good as I expected. Maybe I messed up the values, but I wasn't very satisfied with the results, I had inconsistent values in similar shapes.

In HT LetterSpacer you can use different values for letter-groups. One general group, and others for diagonals on either side, or semi-open counters. 

Here is my list for RSB that need to me compensated more than others:

ГЃҐКЌУЎЬЪЉЊѴҒҔҚҜҠҮҰҺӁӜӮӰӲӶ

гѓґжкќуўьъљњђѣѵғҕҗқҝҡүұӂӝӷ

and LSB:

ДЛУЎЧЉЯѪҠҮҰ

джлуўчљяѫѵҡүұҷҹӂӌӵ

This is how I used it. A Standard value of 15 is applied to all glyphs, and then 20 is applied selectively for the mentions semi-opened forms. 

I recommend setting LSB and RSB in Extended Cyrillic equal to proper characters from which the Extended glyphs are derived. 

 

[Natanael Gama]

There are the latest files on github, nearly finish, even though I will run my eyes on it once again tomorrow. 

The spacing was tricky, because this font already had cyrillic spacing and kerning inherited from a latest version made with ikern, and so to keep consistency I had to, in the end, do it manually in many glyphs.

Cheers

[Alexei Vanyashin]

I have checked your latest file on git, here are the issues:

consistency and attention to detail

"can be compensated lighter" refers to the horizontal bar in Ҟ

Metrics consistency in sibling groups. Very tight metrics for Cyrillic diagonals. /Я is a reverse dynamic glyph that requires generous spacing.

you have adjusted ҩ in Roman, but didn't update the changes in Italic. The update is better, however move consistency (between ҩ and o counters) can be achieved by shifting the stroke rather than the current solution without shift-compensation. The inside counter of ҩ can be larger by thinning the sides. See reference example. 

The spacing was tricky, because this font already had cyrillic spacing and kerning inherited from a latest version made with ikern, and so to keep consistency I had to, in the end, do it manually in many glyphs.

Manual adjustments after iKern are always welcome, since iKern isn't ideal. The spacing it produced for Cyrillic diagonals is too tight. Most of these added Extended Cyrillic glyphs can auto-inherit metrics from their proper base glyphs. 

 

[Natanael Gama]

Hi Alexei. 

I have made those additional changes as well. 

Made some more kerning adjustments, namely correcting some collisions by creating kerning exceptions.

Best

[Alexei Vanyashin]

Hi Natanael,

I suggest this update concludes the expansion project. Thank you for your work altogether. Good solid job.

Kind regards, 

Alexei 

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[Natanael Gama]

Hey Marc, Dave told me to let you know that the final files are on Github with added hinting instructions: https://github.com/NDISCOVER/Exo-2.0/tree/master/Source

It is ready for a pre-release. :) 
Anything else you might need, let us know.
Cheers

terça-feira, 20 de Dezembro de 2016 às 17:48:45 UTC, Alexei Vanyashin escreveu:

Hi Natanael,

I suggest this update concludes the expansion project. Thank you for your work altogether. Good solid job.

Kind regards, 

Alexei 

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 6:37 PM Natanael Gama <nat...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Alexei. 

I have made those additional changes as well. 

Made some more kerning adjustments, namely correcting some collisions by creating kerning exceptions.

Best

terça-feira, 20 de Dezembro de 2016 às 12:05:49 UTC, Alexei Vanyashin escreveu:

I have checked your latest file on git, here are the issues:

consistency and attention to detail

"can be compensated lighter" refers to the horizontal bar in Ҟ

Metrics consistency in sibling groups. Very tight metrics for Cyrillic diagonals. /Я is a reverse dynamic glyph that requires generous spacing.

you have adjusted ҩ in Roman, but didn't update the changes in Italic. The update is better, however move consistency (between ҩ and o counters) can be achieved by shifting the stroke rather than the current solution without shift-compensation. The inside counter of ҩ can be larger by thinning the sides. See reference example. 

The spacing was tricky, because this font already had cyrillic spacing and kerning inherited from a latest version made with ikern, and so to keep consistency I had to, in the end, do it manually in many glyphs.

Manual adjustments after iKern are always welcome, since iKern isn't ideal. The spacing it produced for Cyrillic diagonals is too tight. Most of these added Extended Cyrillic glyphs can auto-inherit metrics from their proper base glyphs. 

 

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[Alexei Vanyashin]

On Thursday, December 22, 2016 at 4:46:06 PM UTC+1, Natanael Gama wrote:

Hey Marc, Dave told me to let you know that the final files are on Github with added hinting instructions: https://github.com/NDISCOVER/Exo-2.0/tree/master/Source

It is ready for a pre-release. :) 
Anything else you might need, let us know.
Cheers

As part of preparation for font mastering, can you organise your repo according to the standard structure. 

Here is an example: https://github.com/m4rc1e/yanone-kaffeesatz