Chathura Telugu Unicode font with Latin characters.

[Ambarisha Darbha]

Hi all,

I want to share my work CHATHURA Telugu Unicode font with you and I request you to share your valuable feedback to improve it. Chathura was developed as a ASCII font earlier in 2009 in the name of Ezi Fonts which consists 42 Telugu ASCII fonts. All are developed by me at that time. Now I'm working on some of those fonts to improve their look n feel and also converting them to Unicode format. Chathura is one of them. I did only Bold font at that time and now I developed Thin font also.

I took suitable Latin characters from Rajdhani (devanagari) font developed by Indian Type Foundry. Thank you Shiva Nalleperumal.

After discussing with Dave, upon his suggestion I'm now working on five weights (200 to 600). I will post each weight's sample document in PDF format when ever they are ready. I need your valuable feedback on them.

Currently I'm posting 200 weight and 600 weight sample as PDF.

Cheers,

Appaji Ambarisha Darbha

[Erin McLaughlin]

Hi Ambarisha!

Thanks for sharing your project. I took a long look at your document, and I have some suggestions that I'd like you to consider. Unfortunately, many of my suggestions have to do with character widths, so it would impact many of the vowel-stroke combination glyphs that you've already made. So I completely understand if you want to disregard these. But, if you're interested in hearing a different perspective, I encourage you to look at some of my examples and experiments in the .pdf (open in Acrobat to see the notes!)

I started with the bold weight, and most of the comments are on the large alphabet page. I didn't comment on each individual vowel combination in this round, but gave a few ideas there. The thin weight looked too tightly spaced in my eyes, especially for on-screen use. Most of my Bold comments were relevant there as well. It was difficult to suggest things because the system of your current typeface is very well thought-out, in terms of how the vowel combinations work. Changing proportions of certain letters would impact these combinations. A difficult balancing act! (So I understand if you want to ignore most of these!)

I'll attach the .pdf if you'd like to see some ideas from a different set of eyes! Thanks again so much for sharing your project here. Do you have a Github account that you could link us to?

Thanks,

Erin

p.s. for Dave: I spent 3 hours fiddling with this. I'm adding the time to a google doc I've started.

[Appaji Ambarisha Darbha]

Hi Erin,

Thanks for the effort and time you spent to review the font Chathura. I agree with most of your suggestions. But some changes I thought can be ignored (Sorry for that). But most of them are valid and I will post another sample of the Bold once I make all the changes. Then you can once again review that font. Hope to receive feedback from other designers also to freeze it and work on remaining weights.

Would like to hear from Dave also on our discussion.

Yes I have github account. I’ll post that link shortly..

Thanks once again for your valuable feedback on my font.

Regards,

Ambarisha

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<Telugu_Chathura_EM_notes_29-6.pdf>

[Dave Crossland]

Hi!

Looking forward to seeing the updates on github :) Will you place the project in https://github.com/appajid ? 

In the PDF there appear to be some interpolation issues... the 'ji' here appears to have a very thin stroke weight compared to the other stems...

Cheers

Dave

[Appaji Ambarisha Darbha]

Hi Dave & Erin,

Please find the updated Font Chathura sample text in PDF format for your review. I’m also uploading the font to github. kindly revert at the earliest.

Regards,

Ambarisha D A

[Erin McLaughlin]

Ambarisha! Hello!

The design is looking great. I totally understand that you didn't want to alter any glyph widths :)  The system is working very well. 

This round, most of my comments relate to places where shapes look too dark or light, where corners might look too sharp or soft, and spacing issues. There weren't too many comments this time! I think that it looks very developed!

I think that the next step will be for you to add a couple of pages to your document that feature the Latin typeface used with the Telugu. The punctuation and numbers from the Latin should be altered to work well with your Telugu shapes.

It will also be helpful for you to make a thorough spacing test, where each glyph is stuck between a standard glyph, so we can make sure that your sidebearings are appropriate. Because your font is very rectangular, even spacing is very important! I think there are some combinations that could use some improvement.

One other request I have is for you to make sure that at least one of your paragraphs is set left-justified, ragged-right (rather than fully-justified), so we can figure out if your space character is too wide (it might be?) compared to the text. You have a very tightly-spaced font, so we might want to either loosen all of the glyphs slightly (by running a quick script to do so) or, altering the space character.

Thank you for posting. It is looking fantastic!

--Erin

[Appaji Ambarisha Darbha]

Hi Erin,

Thank you for the review. I made changes in the widths of characters also. But change will be barely visible :). I made all the changes that are possible suggested by you. Almost 90% suggestions were taken. As you suggested in the latest review I’m enclosing sample document with Latin characters also for your valuable review. Thank you once again for the time and effort you spent on reviewing Chathura font. Can you mail me Kannada testing documents to my mail id amba...@gmail.com if you don’t mind. Thanks in advance.

I increased character spacing (right bearing) to increase character space for Telugu (loosen it).

Regards,

Appaji Ambarisha Darbha

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

On 9 July 2015 at 02:36, Appaji Ambarisha Darbha <amba...@gmail.com> wrote: 

As you suggested in the latest review I’m enclosing sample document ... Can you mail me Kannada testing documents to my mail id

Please upload these documents to the github project and include a link to them in the message to the forum :) 

Cheers,
Dave

[Ambarisha Darbha]

Hi,

I've uploaded my test document PDF to Github. Please find the link below..

https://github.com/appajid/Chathura/tree/master/Sample%20Text%20PDF

Regards,

Appaji Ambarisha Darbha 

[Ambarisha Darbha]

Today I've shared my new font design "Manjusha" with group. I'm waiting for the review of Chathura font, meanwhile I'm working on this new Manjusha font.

Regards,

Appaji Ambarisha D

[Erin McLaughlin]

Hi Ambarisha!

Thanks so much for posting the new proof with Latin glyphs and numerals. I have a few suggestions of how to make them blend in a bit better with the text (see .pdf)

Best wishes,

Erin

[Ambarisha Darbha]

Hi Erin,

Thank you for the suggestions. I made all the changes suggested by you and updated them in github. Now I think I can go ahead to generate remaining weights.

https://github.com/appajid/Chathura

Thanks once again.

Regards,

Appaji Ambarisha Darbha

[Ambarisha Darbha]

Hi Erin, Hi Dave,

I've interpolated another weight Chathura Bold and uploaded it to GitHub. Also updated the PDF in Github. Hope you'll find time to review this.

[Ambarisha Darbha]

Today I've uploaded two more weights at Github. With this I've updated FOUR weights total. I've also updated my Sample PDF in github. Working on 5th weight which is taking much more time than expected due to minor deviations in max characters. Hopefully could able to complete by this weekend.

Regards,

Appaji Ambarisha Darbha

[Ambarisha Darbha]

Hi all,

I created web based Telugu Unicode Test Pages based on Telugu testing kit based on “Font-Testing-Page” of “Pablo Impallari”. Taken References from Kannada Pages by Erin McLaughlin and Tamil by Tharique Aziz.

You can check these pages online at github.

https://github.com/appajid/Telugu-Test-Kit/tree/master/Telugu

Also you can check online at:

http://adityadesign.com/font-testing/index-telugu.php

Regards,

Appaji Ambarisha Darbha

[Dave Crossland]

Great job!

Cheers,
Dave

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[Pablo Impallari]

Awesome news Ambarisha!
Will integrate it soon.

--

Un Abrazo
Pablo Impallari

[Ambarisha Darbha]

Thank you Pablo Impallari.

Regards,

Appaji Ambarisha D

On Sunday, 2 August 2015 09:59:29 UTC+5:30, Pablo Impallari wrote:

Awesome news Ambarisha!
Will integrate it soon.

2015-08-01 15:00 GMT-03:00 Dave Crossland <dcros...@google.com>:

Great job!

Cheers,
Dave

On 1 August 2015 at 12:01, Ambarisha Darbha <amba...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

I created web based Telugu Unicode Test Pages based on Telugu testing kit based on “Font-Testing-Page” of “Pablo Impallari”. Taken References from Kannada Pages by Erin McLaughlin and Tamil by Tharique Aziz.

You can check these pages online at github.

https://github.com/appajid/Telugu-Test-Kit/tree/master/Telugu

Also you can check online at:

http://adityadesign.com/font-testing/index-telugu.php

Regards,

Appaji Ambarisha Darbha

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[Ambarisha Darbha]

Hi All,

I've uploaded all the 5 weights in GITHUB. I request you to review and revert at the earliest.


https://github.com/appajid/Chathura


Regards,

Appaji Ambarisha Darbha

[vaishnavi Murthy]

Hi,

I was going through your typeface. I like the way the RA vottus are made and I'm glad the awful right-side ulta RA is not there and instead takes a more natural form that wraps around. However, the second level RA vottu is behaving strange sometimes try for example KA+PA+RA  = క్ప్ర

I like that fact that there is a clear distinction between KA+TA+NA and KA+NA+TA. I'm planning the same behaviour for my typeface! I see that--at times, after two vattus are added, the virama doesn't show-up on the base-character. Is there a reason why this is happening? Try KA+SSA+TTA+(and virama doesn't show after this) a solution might be to restrict the cluster to a few glyphs and take the rest to the next cluster. I'm trying to figure this out, but is taking a long time to define this. 

Besides all these things that no one might really require immediately, I can see that you've added some archaic fractions in this. Does anyone use this still? In comparison, the repha and Nakara pollu are used a bit more (very little bit :) ) and might be useful to have in your typeface. What do you think? Take a look at the updated core specification for these characters http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode8.0.0/ch12.pdf

Well hope that's of some use. 

Best,

Vaishnavi

[Dave Crossland]

Thanks Vaishnavi!

[Appaji Ambarisha Darbha]

Hi Vaishnavi,

Thank you for your valuable feedback. About second Ra Vattu I’ll look into that once again. క్ప్ర

క్శ్టక్ష్ఠక్శ్ఠక్శ్ట్‌క్శ్ఠ్‌అన్‌దము అన్దము అందము

Here you can see non joiner Nakara Pollu. The typing application / keyboard should facilitate the non joiner ankara pollu. The font has the glyphs. Unlike Kannada we don’t use (rma) as mentioned in the Table 12-29 Rendering of Telugu na + virama in Telugu. Some of the archaic combinations are useful when we type Sanskrit Slokas / text in Telugu. Please correct me if I went any where wrong.

With Best Regards,

Appaji Ambarisha Darbha

mobile: 9177994407, 

8886744747

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[vaishnavi Murthy]

Hi Ambarisha,

Its great that you're looking at extended support for archaic Telugu as well as Sanskrit. There are very few typefaces that support this today. However, since Chatura is a display typeface, I'm not sure how-much of this you'd want to include. 

Its a bit tricky to go down this archaic route and not support all the glyphs one would expect in that case, don't you agree? :) I say this particularly because I can see that in Chatura, the vattus are formed in the old style and the numbers are also supporting some archaic forms (which I assume is a standard practice for some reason). 

Supporting archaic Telugu would mean adding all the vedic marks (like udatta, anudatta, chandra... etc.,), adding recently accepted letters like LLLA and RRRA along with all their combining forms, updating the alternate forms of Nakara Pllou and Repha  to name a few.

Nakara Pollu and Reph (arka) do exist in Telugu and I come across them very often in Telugu books till about 15 years back.  

I'd really like to know what you think about this archaic v/s standardised-modern situation.

Best,

Vaishnavi

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[Appaji Ambarisha Darbha]

Hi Vaishnavi,

We are trying to build fonts that can bridge archaic and modern. Actually that’s how the earlier fonts are designed. Except the first one in the sample you provided remaining characters  like LLLA and RRRA are exist in the font. As you mentioned Chathura is a display typeface so the usage of archaic characters will be rare.

[Vaishnavi Murthy]

Ok! I see what you're trying to do here. Its like a retro Telugu :D

Good luck finishing it and thank you for sharing your views on this. 

Best,

Vaishnavi

[Appaji Ambarisha Darbha]

Hi Vaishnavi,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.. You can always make your suggestions to improve my fonts.. thanks for your valuable inputs.

I’m updating second RA vat in all the 5 weights.

With Best Regards,

Appaji Ambarisha Darbha

mobile: 9177994407, 

8886744747

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[Vaishnavi Murthy]

Do take a look at the document I've just uploaded here : https://groups.google.com/d/msg/googlefonts-discuss/8GhUoeMZy-0/rfXyfVH6JQAJ

I'd love to hear what you think.

Thanks!

Best,

Vaishnavi

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[Appaji Ambarisha Darbha]

Hi,

I’ve updated second RA vat in all 5 weights… Thanks Vaishnavi.. I’ll get back to you on the PDF document you mailed me earlier..

క్ప్ర క్ప్ర క్ప్ర క్ప్ర క్ప్ర

With Best Regards,

Appaji Ambarisha Darbha

mobile: 9177994407, 

8886744747

[Appaji Ambarisha Darbha]

Hi Vaishnavi,

Sorry for the delay in reply. I looked into your document and I appreciate your effort. I marked my comments in the PDF and I’m attaching to it. These are purely my thoughts on those points and if I made any remarks that you think not apt you can simply ignore them :) . Many of the points are right and I made no comments on those.

I’d love to hear from you on this.

[vaishnavi Murthy]

Dear Mr Ambarisha,

It was really nice to go though your feedback. Thank you for taking time out for this. I've decided not to include any archaic symbols or characters except the alternate form of Sri which might be used in this context. 

I want to support basic sanskrit, so, there'll be an Avagraha included. I wanted to know if Arasunna is used by anyone today or is the Chandrabindu used instead or neither is used?

The Nakarapollu doesn't have a dedicated slot in the code-block, but, is triggered by the the choice of the stylistic set. It'll be an alternate form of న్ . 

Under 16., you'd mentioned "There are debates on this and many people disagree with this." for the vertically placed vottus. It'll be really useful to know what the for and against arguments are for this behaviour.

Thank you once again.

Best,

Vaishnavi

[Ambarisha Darbha]

I've created Pre-release ZIP in the GITHUB for Chathura.. Awaiting your review Dave.

Regards,

Appaji Ambarisha Darbha

On Saturday, 22 August 2015 22:07:05 UTC+5:30, Dave Crossland wrote:

Thanks Vaishnavi!

[Dave Crossland]

Please don't include the ZIP in the repo, please use the Github release system :) https://github.com/blog/1547-release-your-software

Cheers,
Dave

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[Appaji Ambarisha Darbha]

Communication mistake. I didn’t upload any zip file to Repo. I followed the GITHUB release system only.

With Best Regards,

Appaji Ambarisha Darbha

mobile: 9177994407, 

8886744747

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[Erin McLaughlin]

Hi Ambarisha!

I have a few comments for Chathura as well! Please see this pdf. Thank you again for sharing your project!

– Erin

On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 8:35:09 AM UTC-5, Ambarisha Darbha wrote:

Communication mistake. I didn’t upload any zip file to Repo. I followed the GITHUB release system only.

With Best Regards,

Appaji Ambarisha Darbha

mobile: 9177994407, 

8886744747

On 31-Aug-2015, at 7:12 pm, 'Dave Crossland' via Google Fonts Discussions <googlefon...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Please don't include the ZIP in the repo, please use the Github release system :) https://github.com/blog/1547-release-your-software

Cheers,
Dave

On 31 August 2015 at 09:35, Ambarisha Darbha <amba...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've created Pre-release ZIP in the GITHUB for Chathura.. Awaiting your review Dave.

Regards,

Appaji Ambarisha Darbha

On Saturday, 22 August 2015 22:07:05 UTC+5:30, Dave Crossland wrote:

Thanks Vaishnavi!

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[Ambarisha Darbha]

Thank you Erin. I'll go through and do the necessary changes.

Regards,

Ambarisha D A

On Sun, 21 Feb 2016, 11:06 Erin McLaughlin <soyle...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Ambarisha!

I have a few comments for Chathura as well! Please see this pdf. Thank you again for sharing your project!

– Erin

On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 8:35:09 AM UTC-5, Ambarisha Darbha wrote:

Communication mistake. I didn’t upload any zip file to Repo. I followed the GITHUB release system only.

With Best Regards,

Appaji Ambarisha Darbha

mobile: 9177994407, 

8886744747

On 31-Aug-2015, at 7:12 pm, 'Dave Crossland' via Google Fonts Discussions <googlefon...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Please don't include the ZIP in the repo, please use the Github release system :) https://github.com/blog/1547-release-your-software

Cheers,
Dave

On 31 August 2015 at 09:35, Ambarisha Darbha <amba...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've created Pre-release ZIP in the GITHUB for Chathura.. Awaiting your review Dave.

Regards,

Appaji Ambarisha Darbha

On Saturday, 22 August 2015 22:07:05 UTC+5:30, Dave Crossland wrote:

Thanks Vaishnavi!

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