Re: GWT vs SmartGWT

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Benjamin Possolo

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Oct 29, 2012, 4:59:52 PM10/29/12
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I recommend straight GWT for almost everything. The other frameworks just add abstractions on top of GWT that confuse things a lot more.

Designing screens: UI Binder
Client-side validation: Editor framework + JSR303 validation using HibernateValidator 4.0.2GA
Performance: AsyncProxy, ClientBundle, stick to concrete collections in data transfer objects, etc
Communicate with server over WSDL: you are kind of fucked on this one. I don't know why you would want your javascript to talk WSDL with a server. While I appreciate SOAP/WSDL, that is just way too much overhead for your javascript client to deal with. Your server's WSDL layer likely uses some sort of business interface written in Java. Create a new backend endpoint using REST or for even easier GWT-integration using GWT-RPC. This endpoint should just reuse the same business interface that your WSDL endpoint uses.

Brett Freer

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Oct 29, 2012, 5:05:14 PM10/29/12
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I agree with Benjamin. I would add though that if the standard widgets are not a good fit for your requirements, then it is worth seriously looking at Sencha GXT (Ext-GWT) as well.

Joseph Lust

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Oct 29, 2012, 8:01:21 PM10/29/12
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Folks in my company were just asking me this the other day. If you want an app that looks like the GXT or SmartGWT showcase, and absolutely nothing more, then use them. But you'll have to bend to their paradigms and extend their frameworks if you want more than they do. Further, these frameworks are heavy weight, so doing just what you need in GWT will be much faster performance wise. This is why we stick with pure GWT on my team and why another dev team in our company wanted to jump off a cliff after building a 400 screen app in GXT.


Sincerely,
Joseph

Alfredo Quiroga-Villamil

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Oct 30, 2012, 7:37:49 AM10/30/12
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I've seen in the past many comments and different opinions about
Vaadin, GXT, SmartGWT and "GWT-only" apps. I think the fundamental
thing to remember here is resources.

If you work for a company where you can afford to have the designer/s,
a CSS savy person/s and the time to build and enhance more than
anything pure GWT widgets then by all means go with the GWT only
approach. Do that also if you know the app is being built and will be
there to stay for a loooooonnnng time.

However, in many cases we all seem to think that those frameworks
only provide cosmetic things and they really don't. They actually
provide a whole lot more than just style. Not all "GWT-only" widgets,
but many actually need a lot of work in both how they look as well as
how they are used programmatically.

Not too long ago I set out to build a pure GWT app (one man app only
and being built by someone, me in this case that have been building
GWT for quite some time) and I was the one that almost jumped off the
building in this case. I found myself, styling things, some of the
widgets needed a lot of extra boiler plate (take Cell Table for
instance), just to do basic stuff that using some of the other
frameworks mentioned would just be one or a few lines of code.

So if you have to make a decision, think about one thing and one thing
only. Do you truly have the resources/time, both design and coding
wise to enhance the existing GWT widgets? The answer to that will
likely tell you what to use and it's likely the reason why those
companies are such "value-add" to the existing GWT code base.

As far as performance goes, unless you are building an App for
something extremely, and I emphasize extremely demanding, there is
little to none chance that using GXT, Vaadin or SmartGWT will have an
actual impact on your app.

Alfredo
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Sebastián Gurin

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Oct 30, 2012, 11:10:07 AM10/30/12
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Also, besides Joseph said (it is true in my case), there is a fundamental difference and it is that vaadin, smartGWT, etc uses an architecture where they depend on server side stuff. For example, all vaading Java code runs in the serverside, and the webapp is rendered 100% on the serverside. The widgets depend on this server side for rendering and there is client-server comunication for rendering, layouting, events, etc.

In pure GWT, you are not dependent on a certain serverside technology, you could use php, java container or even no serverside at all.

Also, I have found difficult to interoperate between technologies like vaadin and smartGWT with 3rd party JavaScript widgets, or even with "normal GWT ".

Regards
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Alain Ekambi

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Oct 30, 2012, 11:13:59 AM10/30/12
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Smart GWT  runs on the client.


2012/10/30 Sebastián Gurin <sebast...@gmail.com>
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Jason Hobbs

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Oct 30, 2012, 11:52:29 AM10/30/12
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It will be well worth your time to add the missing bits to GWT rather than jump into SmartGWT.  We just re-wrote the UI on an app due to SmartGWT shortcomings and incompatibilities.



On Monday, October 29, 2012 5:47:08 AM UTC-4, kumar thatikonda wrote:
Hi All,
   Can you please let me know which of the option( GWT or SmartGWT) is better, considering the below scenario.

  1. Will be used for designing screens and client-side validations.
  2. Performance ( page loading , grid loading) should be good.
  3. Need to communicate with server through wsdls(web services.)
  

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Alain Ekambi

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Oct 30, 2012, 12:02:32 PM10/30/12
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I said it before.
Nothing beats Flex on the Desktop anyway  :)



2012/10/30 Jason Hobbs <jason...@shawinc.com>

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Philippe Lhoste

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Oct 30, 2012, 12:29:57 PM10/30/12
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On 29/10/2012 21:59, Benjamin Possolo wrote:
> I recommend straight GWT for almost everything. The other frameworks just add abstractions
> on top of GWT that confuse things a lot more.

They are supposed to offer a bit more than some abstraction layers and nice CSS...
For example, they offer tables that load on demand (dynamic loading when scrolling),
something that isn't supported by GWT out of the box, if I am not mistaken.
Idem for asynch trees, tree-tables, etc.
Perhaps you can find them as open-source projects (not sure) but then you have to search
for them, choose one (if you have choice!), integrate in your project, ensure the look of
the new widgets are consistent with the others, etc.

I would say that such framework might not be necessary for simple projects (ie. with
simple needs, no complex widgets, small datasets) but can save time on complex projects.

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Thomas Broyer

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Oct 30, 2012, 12:44:04 PM10/30/12
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On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 5:30:56 PM UTC+1, PhiLho wrote:
On 29/10/2012 21:59, Benjamin Possolo wrote:
> I recommend straight GWT for almost everything. The other frameworks just add abstractions
> on top of GWT that confuse things a lot more.

They are supposed to offer a bit more than some abstraction layers and nice CSS...
For example, they offer tables that load on demand (dynamic loading when scrolling),
something that isn't supported by GWT out of the box, if I am not mistaken.

Depends what you mean by "out of the box": http://gwt.google.com/samples/Showcase/Showcase.html#!CwCellList
Granted that ShowMorePagerPanel could possibly graduate to GWT proper rather than just a sample.

ckendrick

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Oct 30, 2012, 5:00:34 PM10/30/12
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Hi Kumar,

SmartGWT has an extensive subsystem for interacting directly with WSDL web services from the browser.  Some samples here:


This is all part of the free LGPL product, assuming you don't need a server-side proxy or can handle your own proxying.

Specifically for WSDL there is nothing really comparable for plain GWT, or for GXT that I can find.  You'll see people recommended contacting WSDL services from the server side:


More generally, Alfredo gave a fairly balanced view: it depends on how demanding your requirements are.  If you need to do everything that SmartGWT grids can do, or even just a few key features (like say, freeze columns on the fly + inline filtering) you are years of R&D away from that if you start with plain GWT.  We know because we did the R&D :)  This is true even if you use incubator functionality.
Message has been deleted

Charles Kendrick

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Oct 30, 2012, 8:21:02 PM10/30/12
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Hello Валерий Остапенко,

You should probably go take a look at that thread again - looks like
you didn't see the last reply from Support. They cleared up your
misconception, which appears to be the reason you were getting so
frustrated, and why you were trying to say the docs were wrong when
they are actually correct.

Basically it seems Support was repeating the same (correct) advice,
because they didn't realize you had this misconception and couldn't
understand why you kept saying there was a problem. In a complex
technical discussion, two people can "talk by each other" in this way
very easily, it's not someone trying to make you look like an idiot.

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Валерий Остапенко <vosta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Also smartgwt has a great forum support, where any Isomorphic stuff member
> can make an idiot out of you. (my recent exp:
> http://forums.smartclient.com/showthread.php?t=24112). To be honest, it's
> not that way always, sometimes you get really good, fast and polite
> support. It all depens on who's now sitting behind the isomorphic user.
> There are some unpleasant persons there for sure.
>
> Althrough if you don't have a whole lot of time and need very feature-rich
> interface, sticking with pure gwt is not reasonable from my point of view.
> You'll just be improving visual components for years.
>
> среда, 31 октября 2012 г., 1:00:34 UTC+4 пользователь ckendrick написал:
>>
>> Hi Kumar,
>>
>> SmartGWT has an extensive ...
>
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tong123123

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Oct 31, 2012, 2:37:24 AM10/31/12
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I found pure gwt developer guide, documentation and community forum is quite helpful, for GXT, I try to learn but there is no any tutorial like the stockwatch program, and no developer guide, the forum has poor response..., so I really do not know how to start with GXT although its UI is very attractive!!

saida dhanavath

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Oct 31, 2012, 2:52:55 AM10/31/12
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I would recommend to go with GWT for your requirement, for WSDL just go with GWT-RPC and from RPC server/servlet connect to WSDL.

point here is there has been a continuous improvement/enhancement on GWT since last 2 year.

Best regrads,
Saida.

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 12:07 PM, tong123123 <tong1...@gmail.com> wrote:
I found pure gwt developer guide, documentation and community forum is quite helpful, for GXT, I try to learn but there is no any tutorial like the stockwatch program, and no developer guide, the forum has poor response..., so I really do not know how to start with GXT although its UI is very attractive!!

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