Google IO 2012 : no GWT session ?

[Celinio]

Hello,
I just noticed that the schedule for Google IO 2012 is now available : https://developers.google.com/events/io/sessions
Not sure whether it is definitive or not.
I see that this year there is no session dedicated to GWT. How come ?
But there are 2 sessions dedicated to Dart. Is this a sign ?

[Joshua Kappon]

On Thursday, May 17, 2012 9:00:00 AM UTC+3, Celinio Fernandes wrote:
> Hello,

> I just noticed that the schedule for Google IO 2012 is now available : <a href="https://developers.google.com/events/io/sessions" target="_blank">https://developers.google.com/<WBR>events/io/sessions</a>

> Not sure whether it is definitive or not.
>
>
> I see that this year there is no session dedicated to GWT. How come ?
> But there are 2 sessions dedicated to Dart. Is this a sign ?

Troubling news, I thought something big is coming.
Also notice that office hours exist for every api, and product google makes, but no gwt time at all.
I hope this will change

On Thursday, May 17, 2012 9:00:00 AM UTC+3, Celinio Fernandes wrote:
> Hello,

> I just noticed that the schedule for Google IO 2012 is now available : <a href="https://developers.google.com/events/io/sessions" target="_blank">https://developers.google.com/<WBR>events/io/sessions</a>

[Thomas Broyer]

I've been told (by the GWT manager) that they're planning a session about GWT. No worries, GWT is healthy and "something big" is coming (I'm afraid I can't share details, sorry). 

[Dimitrijević Ivan]

I also think that AGENDA is still incomplete.

You can not find any session regarding Google Closure also.

[Julien Dramaix]

From the Google+ page of  Google Developers :

"The #io12 session and code labs schedule is in preview at developers.google.com/io. We'll continue to add sessions (as well as a livestream schedule) every week, so keep checking back. Let us know in the comments if there's something you're dying to hear about!"

It was already the case last year... The sessions for gwt were added later.

Julien

[Joshua Kappon]

Great to hear.
On Thursday, May 17, 2012 1:23:59 PM UTC+3, Thomas Broyer wrote:
> On Thursday, May 17, 2012 8:00:00 AM UTC+2, Celinio Fernandes wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hello,

> I just noticed that the schedule for Google IO 2012 is now available : <a href="https://developers.google.com/events/io/sessions" target="_blank">https://developers.google.com/<WBR>events/io/sessions</a>

> Not sure whether it is definitive or not.
>
>
> I see that this year there is no session dedicated to GWT. How come ?
> But there are 2 sessions dedicated to Dart. Is this a sign ?

> </blockquote>
>
> </div>
> I&#39;ve been told (by the GWT manager) that they&#39;re planning a session about GWT. No worries, GWT is healthy and &quot;something big&quot; is coming (I&#39;m afraid I can&#39;t share details, sorry). </div>

[mihu]

It's ok, I am also interested in why there is no link from the main page of developers.google.com to the GWT pages for the new programmers easy to find it...?

Michal

[kritic]

Regardless of what the GWT team says, I do believe GWT as it is now will be phased out. Don't get me wrong, I think the features that GWT provides are second to none and the work put into it has been nothing short of impressive, but it has to be recognized that it is also becoming a rather pain in lower back for Google simply because it uses Java. Seems odd, but I really think the whole thing with Android is leaving a bad taste. I really do think Java will become used less and less for future projects (especially GWT).

The way GWT is now, like I wrote already, will probably be shifted to something else. Dart is all the rage right now and it's nice, however it almost feels like an attempt to replace GWT. Golang (Go) is another language that is very well thought out and could conceivably replace Java within, at least, Google. 

Perhaps emscripten has been looked at by the GWT team. Perhaps it may be better to use something like that - which will introduce a mix of languages with all the same features as GWT? I would enjoy that. I think many would. Right now, though, I am keeping my distance from GWT. Even though it's a fantastic technology.

[Giuseppe La Scaleia]

I don't think this and for me java is the better programming language, so i hope that the google team give us a lot of new features for GWT.

Regards

Inviato da iPhone

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[Dimitrijević Ivan]

https://developers.google.com/speed/tools 

[de Witte]

Op zaterdag 19 mei 2012 09:34:24 UTC+2 schreef kritic het volgende:

Regardless of what the GWT team says, I do believe GWT as it is now will be phased out. Don't get me wrong, I think the features that GWT provides are second to none and the work put into it has been nothing short of impressive, but it has to be recognized that it is also becoming a rather pain in lower back for Google simply because it uses Java. Seems odd, but I really think the whole thing with Android is leaving a bad taste. I really do think Java will become used less and less for future projects (especially GWT).

Java is the main language in many enterprise projects and runs on 70% of the mobiles. So no, it won't go away. It is also the main course language for computer science.

The way GWT is now, like I wrote already, will probably be shifted to something else. Dart is all the rage right now and it's nice, however it almost feels like an attempt to replace GWT. Golang (Go) is another language that is very well thought out and could conceivably replace Java within, at least, Google. 

Dart is not going to be accepted by the other browsers. It is no standard and has no real added value and you can't connect it easily to server side code based on J2EE/EJB3.

GO, is a quick and hack language for prototyping. It is not going to replace Java or C#.
 

[dflorey]

Yeah, the first GWT session just arrived:

https://developers.google.com/events/io/sessions/gooio2012/1414/

;-)

On Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:23:59 PM UTC+2, Thomas Broyer wrote:

[Andrés Testi]

The session topic is "Migrating code from GWT to Dart"... sorry, but it scares me.

- Andrés

[Dennis Haupt]

that's not something big. something big would be "hey, we can now
compile to javascript AND dart. and we're 10x faster since 2.4."

Am 20.05.2012 12:17, schrieb Andr�s Testi:
> The session topic is "Migrating code from GWT to Dart"... sorry, but it
> scares me.
>

> - Andr�s
>
> El domingo, 20 de mayo de 2012 07:09:11 UTC-3, dflorey escribi�:

>
> Yeah, the first GWT session just arrived:
> https://developers.google.com/events/io/sessions/gooio2012/1414/
> <https://developers.google.com/events/io/sessions/gooio2012/1414/>
>
> ;-)
>
> On Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:23:59 PM UTC+2, Thomas Broyer wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thursday, May 17, 2012 8:00:00 AM UTC+2, Celinio Fernandes wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I just noticed that the schedule for Google IO 2012 is now
> available : https://developers.google.com/events/io/sessions
> <https://developers.google.com/events/io/sessions>
> Not sure whether it is definitive or not.
> I see that this year there is no session dedicated to GWT.
> How come ?
> But there are 2 sessions dedicated to Dart. Is this a sign ?
>
>
> I've been told (by the GWT manager) that they're planning a
> session about GWT. No worries, GWT is healthy and "something
> big" is coming (I'm afraid I can't share details, sorry).
>

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[Roger Studner]

There is a "wave" and a "buzz" about GWT I jus can't put my finger on.

</sarcasm>

Roger

[Wendel]

What I can tell is that there is a temporary ''wave" and "buzz" about Dart. Great technology but nobody needs it right now.

Business wise it is very expensive to have you team learning a new language or framework, so you need a compelling reason.

About the session:

Curious to learn how to port your GWT code to Dart? In this code lab, we will go over Dart equivalents for various GWT libraries and idioms, techniques for interoperating with existing GWT server backends, and tricks to allow Dart code to talk to existing GWT and Javascript code.

Such session only raises one question, why?

Have a look at the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E80DLSyGBgc

The guy is not answering the question.

[Clint Gilbert]

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On 05/19/2012 03:34 AM, kritic wrote:
> Regardless of what the GWT team says, I do believe GWT as it is now
> will be phased out.

I fear you're right. I get the same feeling, for the reasons you
mentioned. It's too bad, because Dart, while an improvement over
straight JS, brings - for me - the worst parts of JS (dynamic typing)
and Java (unhelpful verbosity) though with some welcome improvements
to structure-ability and defining anonymous functions.

Scala-GWT is getting quite close to a first release. It's a long
shot, but I hope it takes off. Scala is extremely well-suited to
cutting out huge amounts of ui-callback boilerplate without
sacrificing any type-safety.

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[Joseph Lust]

Wow, Ray Cromwell, the benevolent GWT overlord himself, is the presenter? I'm sure he was wild to get the assignment.

Highly suspect, almost enough so to make me want to spend GWT study time (a.k.a. weekends) on something else until this is clarified.

Joe

[dominikz]

I presume that the next thing we'll be hearing is Ray leaving google or at least GWT team!

[Thomas Broyer]

On Sunday, May 20, 2012 12:17:38 PM UTC+2, Andrés Testi wrote:

The session topic is "Migrating code from GWT to Dart"... sorry, but it scares me.

It shouldn't.

Ray Cromwell:

There are non-published/non-finalized GWT sessions. I am doing one on the GWT 2.5 release and future roadmap.
The Dart one is just a hobby project, that is, how can you make GWT and Dart code collaborate, what do GWT constructs look like if you write them in Dart. I wouldn't read anything into this anymore than if you saw me do a Scala or Go session.

— Source: https://plus.google.com/115263933340916245640/posts/CtdpmjSuiFW 

[Kanagaraj M]

The History and Future of Google Web Toolkit

Ray Cromwell

https://developers.google.com/events/io/sessions/gooio2012/218/

[kritic]

Java is the main language in many enterprise projects and runs on 70% of the mobiles. So no, it won't go away. It is also the main course language for computer science.

So what? That doesn't mean it won't be changed to something else. Also, I'm not talking about the "enterprise". I'm talking about Google's future projects. Google doesn't *have* to stick with Java.

 Dart is not going to be accepted by the other browsers. It is no standard and has no real added value and you can't connect it easily to server side code based on J2EE/EJB3.

You don't know that. Nobody does. It's still very, very early days for dart. Personally, I'm not all that excited about it but wouldn't complain if it became bigger than it is now. As for connecting it back to server side code, I believe you can do server side code with dart also - sorta like node.js.

GO, is a quick and hack language for prototyping. It is not going to replace Java or C#.

Forgive me, you seem to think I was implying Go was going to replace Java or C#. No. I am, however, wondering if it will replace Java *within* Google. It certainly has the potential to do so. It is not a hack. Take a little glance at who developed the language before saying ridiculous things such as that.

GWT, Closure Library, Dart, Native Client can all be summed up into a single package. Served as a complete development environment for developers. If you want to code in C/C++/C# or whatever language you want, it would make sense to bundle Native Client/GWT/Dart/Closure and use something like Emscripten to allow the developer to choose how to deploy their code. Need performance? Native code (NaCl).. Not so concerned about performance? GWT/Dart (javascript). 

Whether or not any of that will happen is a bit question. I think it would be pretty nice. We'll see.

[Thierry Abaléa]

> "something big" is coming (I'm afraid I can't share details, sorry)

I suppose that "something big" does not refer to "Elemental". I think that not because it is not big but because Ray Cromwell made the information public via his Google+ page. But you already know it. Even if you think you can't share details perhaps you can say that there is something more !?

Thierry Abaléa.

[Thomas Lefort]

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/Google-Web-Toolkit-Employment/NJmWmKsXQlI

sounds pretty healthy to me :)

I bet competition will be fierce!

[Daniel Kurka]

I can assure you (since I am deeply invested in GWT) that GWT is in no way of being phased out. The main reason is the amount of other talks (android, google+) being added to the conference, reducing talk time for everyone else.

As Thomas said before there is something big coming for GWT which will be announced in Rays talk at IO.

There are a lot of google products relying on GWT which is not something that you could change in a short amount of time. Dart may be an interesting project, but it is not going to change the way google currently depends on GWT (at least not in the next years).

The fact that the GWT team is looking for team members on the google employment list should also put you in the direction that this is no where near dead.

So hopefully as a contributer to the project I can calm you nerves a little.

-Daniel

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[Murray]

Daniel,

I was at Google I/O last week and decided ask for myself.. the responses I got, was NOT good

I flat out asked one Googler, working a developer "bar" in the main lobby  (not sure what team he was on) 

"..should I continue my project that's not yet released, in GWT or what..?" and he appeared to be reluctant

to say...suggesting that something was up! he then went on to say he would change it to DART as it

is not yet a complete standard.... So then I asked "..what about JSP/Appengine or Python?"  and with a big Grin

on if face he shuck his head affirmatively violently ... as if to say he doesn't want it to be said that "he told me so"

right now we need some GWT folks to step up and say something definitive!!!  this "rumor" has been going around for 

a while now.. and there were no Sessions on GWT at the IO2012 other than Porting GWT to DART !!!

I went to a session on Appengine /REST and a a question was asked at the end of the session regarding 

REST and GWT the answer was also suspect...

I think this link will take you to the session ..forward to the end...

 https://developers.google.com/events/io/sessions/gooio2012/121/

On Friday, June 22, 2012 1:54:29 PM UTC-4, Daniel Kurka wrote:

I can assure you (since I am deeply invested in GWT) that GWT is in no way of being phased out. The main reason is the amount of other talks (android, google+) being added to the conference, reducing talk time for everyone else.

As Thomas said before there is something big coming for GWT which will be announced in Rays talk at IO.

There are a lot of google products relying on GWT which is not something that you could change in a short amount of time. Dart may be an interesting project, but it is not going to change the way google currently depends on GWT (at least not in the next years).

The fact that the GWT team is looking for team members on the google employment list should also put you in the direction that this is no where near dead.

So hopefully as a contributer to the project I can calm you nerves a little.

-Daniel

Am 19.06.2012 um 19:29 schrieb Thomas Lefort:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/Google-Web-Toolkit-Employment/NJmWmKsXQlI

sounds pretty healthy to me :)

I bet competition will be fierce!


On Thursday, 17 May 2012 08:00:00 UTC+2, Celinio Fernandes wrote:

Hello,
I just noticed that the schedule for Google IO 2012 is now available : https://developers.google.com/events/io/sessions
Not sure whether it is definitive or not.
I see that this year there is no session dedicated to GWT. How come ?
But there are 2 sessions dedicated to Dart. Is this a sign ?

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[Jim Douglas]

Murray:

https://developers.google.com/events/io/sessions/gooio2012/218/

https://docs.google.com/a/basis.com/presentation/d/1pC9WK80-fzIs2iMQOO3Jsvfmqv2erI9xucuF3lHOE7Q/edit?pli=1#slide=id.p18

http://www.infoworld.com/d/application-development/google-hands-over-control-of-google-web-toolkit-steering-committee-196753

> >https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/Google-Web-Toolkit...

>
> > sounds pretty healthy to me :)
>
> > I bet competition will be fierce!
>
> > On Thursday, 17 May 2012 08:00:00 UTC+2, Celinio Fernandes wrote:
>
> >> Hello,
> >> I just noticed that the schedule for Google IO 2012 is now available :
> >>https://developers.google.com/events/io/sessions
> >> Not sure whether it is definitive or not.
> >> I see that this year there is no session dedicated to GWT. How come ?
> >> But there are 2 sessions dedicated to Dart. Is this a sign ?
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Google Web Toolkit" group.
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> >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-web-toolkit/-/m0up22vaGNoJ.

> > To post to this group, send email to google-we...@googlegroups.com.

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> > google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com.

[Thomas Broyer]

On Friday, July 6, 2012 10:37:48 PM UTC+2, Jim Douglas wrote:

Murray:

https://developers.google.com/events/io/sessions/gooio2012/218/

https://docs.google.com/a/basis.com/presentation/d/1pC9WK80-fzIs2iMQOO3Jsvfmqv2erI9xucuF3lHOE7Q/edit?pli=1#slide=id.p18

http://www.infoworld.com/d/application-development/google-hands-over-control-of-google-web-toolkit-steering-committee-196753

And also: https://groups.google.com/d/topic/google-web-toolkit-employment/NJmWmKsXQlI/discussion

[Murray]

Jim,

Thanks for the reply and links, I never noticed Rays session on the list,

then I again.. the sessions  were being constantly updated anyways... Wish I had gone to that one

> > To post to this group, send email to google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com.

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[Thomas Broyer]

On Friday, July 6, 2012 11:46:00 PM UTC+2, Murray wrote:

Jim,

Thanks for the reply and links, I never noticed Rays session on the list,

then I again.. the sessions  were being constantly updated anyways... Wish I had gone to that one

Also, we've been in close touch with Ray recently (the Steering Committee; by mail, chat, and conferences on the phone –which are fun to plan when spanning Europe and the US 'til California ;-) )  and the news are good.

The reason Google opens GWT is that they don't have the resources to handle the community's need/pressure (the priority, understandably, always was on their own internal needs first); the goal is to share the resources and responsibilities with others (among which "big players" like RedHat/JBoss, Sencha and Vaadin, and smaller ones like ArcBees; see Ray's slides for the full list).

If you're not yet aware, before you learn it from uninformed sources: yes, Google Atlanta engineering offices are closing, so the original GWT Team is shut down. Dev already started shifting to Mountain View, CA (where Ray Ryan worked until last fall, and Ray Cromwell is, among others), but there will probably be some blurry moment this summer as things settle down (sources will also be moving from "internally developed within Google and mirrored to the public SVN" to "openly developed on Git and mirrored within Google".

So yes, expect some "blurry moment" this summer, but news are good.

(BTW, the Atlanta-based GWT Team worked that last year on building a collaborative IDE they just open-sourced before closing the doors: http://www.google.com/p/collide )

[Alain Ekambi]

That links is dead Thomas :)

2012/7/7 Thomas Broyer <t.br...@gmail.com>

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[Thomas Broyer]

On Saturday, July 7, 2012 12:15:21 AM UTC+2, nino wrote:

That links is dead Thomas :)

Ghaa, of course: code.google.com, not www.google.com ;-)

Introductory message with correct link at https://plus.google.com/109697072684132989725/posts/WwRaBNhJAch

[Kevin Moore]

Thomas,

The uncertainty spooks me just a little, since the rumors started I have been going over in my head what
It would take to retool my existing app to a
Jsp/appengine app, and so far I like what I am thinking, especially given the new Rest features announced at IO.

What are your thoughts on appengine vs gwt, to be honest I trust Google more than the community.

Thanks

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[kritic]

Let's not forget that GWT means Google Web Toolkit. The name itself does not necessarily mean, "stick with java only". There could conceivably be other languages introduced to it. It would make sense if the fragmentation that is Google's dev tools be packaged into Google Web Toolkit. I wouldn't be surprised to see Dart become the newest addition to GWT. Judging by the talks at I/O, it looks like Dart is the future. The java end of it probably won't be deprecated but will most likely be talked about less and less with new tutorials focusing on dart.

Either way, speculation.. Businesses deny and deny until the end.

[Thomas Broyer]

On Saturday, July 7, 2012 1:46:24 AM UTC+2, Murray wrote:

Thomas,

The uncertainty spooks me just a little, since the rumors started I have been going over in my head what
It would take to retool my existing app to a
Jsp/appengine app, and so far I like what I am thinking, especially given the new Rest features announced at IO.

What are your thoughts on appengine vs gwt, to be honest I trust Google more than the community.

To me, comparing JSP/AppEngine with GWT is like comparing Ruby on Rails with jQuery (minus the GWT-RPC/RequestFactory features/protocols).

GWT is a client-side tool, JSP/AppEngine is a server-side platform, they're not comparable.

All the apps I've made or seen made with GWT could have been done with something else (jQuery, Closure, etc. on the client-side; Java, .NET, Rails, PHP, etc. on the server-side). GWT is just a tool, it definitely *is* replaceable. The difference will be the level of tooling, and your tastes. Technically, GMail could have been built with GWT, just like Groups could have been built with Closure.

 

Given the "spring cleanings" and pricing changes done by Google on their services and APIs, I'm not sure they're that much worried about "saving face" and fainting they're not abandoning GWT if that's what they actually do (they invested during 5 years before Wave was made public, they had partners who started building business around Wave, and they shut it down after 2 years with no replacement –Apache Wave is far from providing all that Google Wave had– they could very well have announced that they'd switch to another tool for their apps at the time they announced they'll close their Atlanta offices, that'd have been the perfect timing). Of course I could be wrong; I pray I'm not (there are many signs of health for "GWT at Google" though, despite the recent hard blows).

If you think you'd better switch to something else, go with it; GWT is not a one-size-fits-all tool, such a thing does not exist.

As for the Google Cloud Endpoints; they look really great, and yes, go with it if your needs and requirements fit their constraints. Otherwise, well, I bet there will be equivalents that are not tied to AppEngine, and/or with other features or constraints. These are inspired by JAX-RS, or RequestFactory, or SOAP, with slightly different characteristics (generates JS and ObjC clients contrary to the Java-centric approach of RequestFactory, but without batching and "identity" –EntityProxy–, with JSON discovery contrary to SOAP's WSDL, but similarly to Swagger or Flatpack).

And if you wonder, there will probably be a Google Cloud Endpoint client for GWT, if not already, as https://code.google.com/apis/console/ and https://developers.google.com/apis-explorer/#p/ are GWT apps.

[Kevin Moore]

Thomas,
Thanks for your comments, very nsightful. It was not my intention to compare jsp/appengime to gwt but rather to the RPC portion of gwt .

With appengine I have the flexibility of many of ux approaches., but now I am excited about creating a services based approach to my product giving the flexibility of different client side solution on the same core logic.

However it  was  easier to ramp my team up and keep them motivated in the tech, with gwt

I too felt the Google wave pinch!

We will see, thanks

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