Office Hours: 2009-09-03 [CLOSED] - Transcript
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pamela (Google employee)
Sep 3, 2009, 1:20:52 AM9/3/09
to Google Wave API
Thanks for attending office hours, it was a busy session with
questions across the spectrum. Transcript pasted below:
Office Hours: 2009-09-03 [CLOSED]
Welcome to API office hours!
*Please top post your question or comment about the robot, gadget, or
embed API to make sure we see it. You can do so by replying to this
blip.*
*A transcript of this wave will be made publicly available. If you
don't want to appear in the transcript, delete your blip after getting
a response. Be careful not to remove neighboring blips.*
*And don't add robots to this wave!*
This is now closed, please post in the forum.
3:17 pm
Pamela Fox:
Re-pasting Alexandros question: what does the: [not-yet-implemented-
user] gave everyone access?
The answer is that it means the Wave is public - anyone with Wave
sandbox access can see the Wave. I made it public by adding
pub...@a.gwave.com as a participant.
3:16 pm
Alexandro Jimenez:
oh ok, so it is just a new message showing on waves if it is public
right?
3:16 pm
Pamela Fox:
Yes. It used to say "This wave is published at an unknown URL" but we
changed it to a perhaps even more confusing message. :)
3:17 pm
Alexandro Jimenez:
oh ok, thanks so much for the last minute question.
2:32 pm
Vadim Barsukov:
Excuse me, this again is not a question about the robots etc. But it
is often asked and it is very important, imho. If Google wants to make
GW a popular and widespread, then will have to organize support for
the new participants in the Wave. Either a special group of
volunteers, or a set of reference, help waves, or something else.
There are any news about this? September 30 is already near.
2:38 pm
Pamela Fox:
We will be supporting consumers in a similar way to how we support
consumers using other Google products - help documentation, and a
forum. It may be inside Wave or outside of it, that is yet to be seen.
We would love to see you guys helping users in the forum, and be our
super-users.
2:22 pm
Daniel Noll:
What is settie exactly and why was he implemented as a participant?
(Rather than, for example, as a separate Settings page.)
2:23 pm
Vadim Gerasimov:
The advantage is that the wave with the settie robot can be shared as
a regular wave.
2:24 pm
Daniel Noll:
Aha. So multiple users can share common settings via a shared settie
wave, and then other settings can be kept private by simply not
sharing it? I was thinking that maybe it was because the intent was
to get multiple settings waves for some other reason (settings for
bots? where the bot might be a participant in the wave along with the
settie bot, or something.)
2:23 pm
Vadim Gerasimov:
Right. You may also assist someone with the settings.
2:24 pm
David Demczuk:
So there is documentation on settie? I haven't been able to find that
info yet
2:24 pm
Vadim Gerasimov:
Settie is in embrionic state, but should do a lot more and get some
documentation soon too.
2:25 pm
David Demczuk:
Great - I think the intent or idea of it could be great - especially
from say.. an intranet or collaborative workspace point of view
2:02 pm
Vadim Barsukov:
Hi! I'm repeat my question from previous Office Hours. What will
happen with Google Wave Sandbox, when the server wave.google.com
starts working? Survives our accounts and whether they will be
transferred to a production server?
2:13 pm
Gregory Dalesandre:
Wavesandbox will live on for the forseeable future! It was started as
a way for developers to develop and test Wave extensions and will
continue to be used for this. When the primary wave.google.com
instance is created the accounts on it will be standard google
accounts. This means that if you use gmail, your Wave username will
be the same as your Gmail username. Unfortunately Google accounts
that are associated with email addresses other than Gmail will need to
choose a new unique username.
The content of the wavesandbox will not be transferred over.
2:16 pm
Daniel Noll:
Or they could move to Google Apps, right? And have their own domain
work over there. (Though I suppose if their email was hotmail...) And
thankfully I have my domain on Google Apps already. :-D
2:14 pm
Gregory Dalesandre:
Did you add it into the list at wave.google.com? Please do! :)
2:15 pm
Daniel Noll:
I did sign up for updates for that. :) I host one of my own domains'
XMPP servers separately though... I have a bad feeling that this will
interfere with things somehow. But I plan to set up FedOne over on
that at some point.
2:14 pm
James Purser:
Or they could write a client for Fedone ;)
2:15 pm
Gregory Dalesandre:
Eventually that will also be another option (that we are really
excited to have!), but not on Sept 30 :(
2:15 pm
James Purser:
Fair enough, I'll just be happy enough to federate between my own
server and wave.google
2:14 pm
Gregory Dalesandre:
Precisely! If the email is hotmail, they will need a new username.
But if you own a domain we will be turning on a limited number of
domains for Wave (and over time anyone will be able to use Wave with
Google Apps).
2:01 pm
Brian May:
Ok, I will start. I hope this is on-topic for this discussion, however
I believe it is a big issue:
How much of the sandbox client/server will be open sourced? What parts
will remain proprietary? Will the open source community be expected to
implement any missing components for it to work outside Google with
full features?
2:06 pm
Vadim Gerasimov:
The official answer is at http://googlewavedev.blogspot.com/2009/07/google-wave-federation-protocol-and.html
2:07 pm
Vadim Gerasimov:
We plan to opensource more code but haven't worked out the schedule,
yet.
2:18 pm
Brian May:
Will wait then. What happens here, I think, may be very significant to
if Wave is widely adopted or not.
2:19 pm
Pamela Fox:
The hardest part for developers to replicate will be the rich editor,
I'd say, so cross your fingers that we can get that code out to the
world. (we'll cross ours too)
2:19 pm
James Purser:
yar, fingers crossed.
2:19 pm
Brian May:
My fingers are crossed ;-).
2:25 pm
Chris Marino:
Cross our fingers? Sounds like you're hedging here. Can you be any
more specific? (you here being Google).
2:31 pm
Pamela Fox:
Lars mentioned open-sourcing the editor during the I/O keynote, but we
haven't said anything more authoritive since then. It's something we
want to do, but it will take time.
2:33 pm
Chris Marino:
Now I'm even more confused. I see now that you're talking about the
rich editor, not the entire client? Right? Assuming that's the case,
what other things that are part of the client that we might not see in
a ref impl.?
2:36 pm
Vadim Gerasimov:
We'd like to open source as much of the client code as possible. Early
2010 is our target, but it is very much to be determined.
2:38 pm
Brian May:
Do you plan to release any of the server code currently used by the
Sandbox? Or will this be the FedOne server + improvements?
2:39 pm
James Purser:
From discussions I've had with some of the Googlers, FedOne consists
of a small part of the wavesandbox server with a focus on federation.
As they work, they're bringing the two branches back into sync.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
2:42 pm
Brian May:
Hopefully you are right, and approach would make sense too.
2:46 pm
Pamela Fox:
You might want to read this forum post in addition to the blog post,
if you haven't yet: http://groups.google.com/group/wave-protocol/browse_thread/thread/618ff4e9ef477e80#
Nice snippet: "This code will evolve into the shared codebase (that
we'll use and we hope others will too)." (James is correct)
2:48 pm
Brian May:
Oh, your right, I missed that first time I read it. Thanks.
2:05 pm
Vadim Barsukov:
This is not a question but a proposal to the Google Wave team.
Since there is no list, which indicates the area of responsibility in
our team, then the developers is difficult to understand whom to
contact with questions in the Wave API group (аnd in other groups
too). And who answers them, is not always clear, too. Not everyone
writes in their nickname - "I'm a Googler". :)
Maybe somewhere there is a list of posts, job roles in the team? Like
this: "Douwe Osinga, Wave API Tech Lead". It would be useful to place
this list in the groups, IMHO. Also very important to place there the
links for issues, for the bug-tracking pages.
I apologize if this is not my area of credentials. :)
2:24 pm
Pamela Fox (and Casey Whitelaw):
Here's a tentative list of Googlers you may encounter:
Brian Kennish (Developer Relations)
Austin Chau (Developer Relations)
Pamela Fox (Developer Relations)
Douwe Osinga (Wave APIs Lead)
David Byttow (Python API Engineer)
Seth Covitz (Java API Engineer)
Vadim Gerasimov (Gadgets API Lead)
Marcel Prasetya (Java API Engineer)
Casey Whitelaw: Search, Organization, NLP (Engineer)
2:34 pm
Vadim Barsukov:
O, thank you! Now we know your heroes! :)
2:37 pm
Vadim Barsukov:
Tell me please, and who is developing a client? Where can ask
questions and write their suggestions on the client interface?
2:40 pm
Pamela Fox:
You won't see them in the forums much, since they don't make the APIs.
Some of them gave a presentation at I/O about the client, however. See
the first talk listed here: http://www.waveprotocol.org/presentations
2:56 pm
Vadim Barsukov:
And how can we discuss the interface? This is not just my curiosity.
Those who fall into the waves for the first time, ask many questions.
And it's in the main issues relating to the interface - an
incomprehensible sequence of blips in the wave, unusual scroller,
etc.
(I fear that so many revolutionary elements of the interface can make
it difficult getting used to a wave of ordinary users who are not
geeks).
How can we discuss the interface?
3:09 pm
Pamela Fox:
We don't have a great answer for that right now, since our resources
are developer-oriented currently. Most developers discuss that
interface in the Wave sandbox. We notice the discussions and keep them
in mind when figuring out how to make Wave more user-friendly. Once
the consumer preview launch happens, I would encourage you to discuss
it in the public help forum for consumers.
2:06 pm
Daniel Noll:
It seems like one way would be to have the Googlers put a little G in
their user icons. :-D
2:07 pm
Pamela Fox:
There are 2 types of Google Groups - one type that has that ability,
and one that doesn't. We are using the latter because it has better
email support and developers like to subscribe via email.
2:12 pm
Vadim Barsukov:
Maybe do so here, in the Wave? Special avatars or icons for the
team. :)
2:19 pm
Pamela Fox:
Hmm, yeah, could do. *Opens up photoshop.
2:08 pm
Pamela Fox:
Hmm, good suggestion. I intended to do an intro post of everyone that
posts in the group, but I never did - I'll do that shortly. We usually
try and have engineers append "(Googler)" to the end, but that is
tricky with groups. Please note that you shouldn't be directing your
questions to Googlers, you should direct them to everyone in the
forum. We like when people help eachother.
2:08 pm
Andi Albrecht:
Is there any timeline when we can expect a new version of the Python
API?
2:15 pm
Pamela Fox:
It's safe to say it will be out before 9/30 (consumer preview), but
it's unclear how much before then. You could keep the weekend before
free.. :)
2:16 pm
Andi Albrecht:
Thanks! Noted in my calendar :)
2:09 pm
James Purser:
as a supplemental, when will it be or is it already possible to get
the real id of waves created by robots under the python API?
2:18 pm
Pamela Fox:
Don't think so, not yet.
2:18 pm
James Purser:
bugger. Going to slow down a couple of projects I'm working on.
2:12 pm
Brian May:
What do the archive/mute operations do? How is this different from
"move to trash"? I have not been able to locate any definite
documentation.
2:21 pm
Casey Whitelaw:
Hi Brian,
Here's what archive and mute do.
Archive removes the wave from your inbox. It's still searchable, and
shows up in your folders and in All. The wave will stay out of the
inbox until it is changed. All changes cause the wave to come back to
the inbox. You can use this when you've finished dealing with a wave,
and want it out of your inbox.
Mute removes the wave from your inbox, and keeps it out. It's like a
permanent "archive" setting. Again, it's still searchable, and will
show in your folders, and in All. You can use this if you want to keep
a wave around, but don't want it nagging you.
Move to Trash mutes a wave, but also makes it not searchable, unless
you explicitly look in Trash. You can use this when you never expect
to want to look at a wave again.
The behaviour of archive and mute may be tweaked to be more wave-y in
the future, but that's the basic gist.
2:22 pm
Brian May:
That description helps a lot, thanks.
2:22 pm
Casey Whitelaw:
You're welcome!
2:28 pm
Patrick Mullen:
What are the plans for the draft mode, and is there an ETA on it?
1. Will draft mode happen mostly on the client (dont send keystrokes
until sent), or mostly on the server (keystrokes sent but not
broadcast
2. How will draft mode interact with robots (and maybe gadgets) - do
the robots still get to modify as you type while you are in draft mode
etc
3. How much persistence will draft mode have? Only one blip? Within a
wave? An "always on" draft mode for those more private people?
4. What if I don't want draft mode in my wave, is there a way to force
it off? For instance, in an editing situation.
5. Similarly, will robots (and maybe gadgets) be able to get the draft
mode state of users
3:02 pm
Vadim Gerasimov:
The draft feature in _not_ expected to be ready by Sep 30. It will be
implemented soon afterwards. At the moment it's hard to comment on
particular implementation specifics. But the draft mode is going to be
optional. If you want to turn it off you will be able to do so. In the
gadgets it would likely be controlled by the gadget developer.
2:50 pm
Patrick Mullen:
So the gadget might be able to get the users draft mode status, and
then the developer can customize their interface accordingly?
2:53 pm
Vadim Gerasimov:
The gadget API does not allow the gadget to extract the information
outside the gadget element (at least not yet). So, the gadget would
determine how to update the state from within the gadget UI. The
gadgets will know whether the user wants "draft mode". But the gadgets
will choose how to behave in the draft mode.
2:53 pm
Patrick Mullen:
Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for your response!
2:49 pm
Patrick Mullen:
Default on or default off? I understand if you don't know this yet.
3:03 pm
Vadim Gerasimov:
To be determined.
2:27 pm
David Demczuk:
Is there a customisation on the way to view a wave? ie the latest
replies first or something? Having difficulty finding the latest
updates to a wave without playback.
2:30 pm
Brian May:
Personally I would like to be able to hide/unhide read blips, I think
this would make it easier to locate stuff that has changed.
2:31 pm
David Demczuk:
yes this is the sort of thing I was wondering
Even an arrow or something indicating where edits are happening in
real time too - for example in this wave theres answers and edits
happening all over the wave.
2:34 pm
Pamela Fox:
Those are good ideas - none of which exist yet.
2:35 pm
David Demczuk:
so are those sorts of things envisioned as more of a job for robots?
Ie each person would have their own "armada" of cutomization bots for
their preferences?
Or have I missed the point somewhere
2:36 pm
James Purser:
These are client tasks, rather than robot tasks I think. Like Email
Clients.
2:32 pm
Patrick Mullen:
+1 for arrows!
2:28 pm
James Purser:
One more for FedOne, what plans are there to bring persistance to the
FedOne server?
2:32 pm
Pamela Fox:
Not in the near future - closer goals are to have the fedone impl use
proper blip/document structure.
2:33 pm
Brian May:
Does this mean FedOne will get full support for OT? Or is this a
seperate unrelated issue?
2:36 pm
Pamela Fox:
Yes, that is also a priority. Likely not until after 9/30.
2:32 pm
James Purser:
okay, but I'm assuming patches welcome :)
2:33 pm
Pamela Fox:
we <3 patches. (significant changes might require a branch of course,
but that discussion can happen once patches are proposed).
2:55 pm
David Demczuk:
Is this the appropriate place to ask questions on rosy-etta?
2:55 pm
Pamela Fox:
Well, peeps have asked question on everything today. So, ask, and
we'll see if we can find an answer.
2:58 pm
David Demczuk:
Great - really just wanted information on how to make it work!
Example what languages it translates from/to
I am having some difficulty finding information in general about
wave.... point me to a few good spots for info? (please)
Would be nice to have an intro pack when allocated a sandbox
account...
3:00 pm
Pamela Fox:
The latest FAQ says its not working, but I haven't tested it recently.
I'm guessing the translated languages are the ones that our translate
API supports, as it likely uses that behind the scenes:
http://code.google.com/apis/ajaxlanguage/documentation/#SupportedPairs
I'll try it out now.
3:01 pm
David Demczuk:
Cool, I guess I was more referring to how to tell rosy what to
translate. Ie if I am online with my parent company in Italy I would
want my text translated to italian and their text translated to
Australian (english would do :-) )
3:02 pm
Pamela Fox:
Have you watched the I/O keynote? They demo'ed it there, so that would
show you the usage at that time.
3:02 pm
David Demczuk:
yes I did - was one of the key items I was interested in - didn't
really show HOW they did it though lol
3:04 pm
Pamela Fox:
Okay, it appears that Rosy is currently "under construction". We will
likely post in the forum when it/she is working again. You could try
making your own translation bot with the API I pointed you to, if you
want to play around with interaction possibilities. I'm not sure what
the experience will be like using Rosy once she's up again, there may
be some changes.
3:05 pm
David Demczuk:
Thanks for the response - I'll have a look - those links you sent are
great! reading them now. Appreciate your time in answering my queries
today.
3:06 pm
Pamela Fox:
Update: The UI before was that Rosy was added, you were greeted with a
form element to pick the the language to translate to -- Rosy can
detect the language being used. From the on, for the wave, it would
use that setting.
3:07 pm
David Demczuk:
Ahh I see - I thought something like that happened. I'm still getting
my head around the wave model - I'm still thinking in client mode most
of the time.
3:10 pm
Pamela Fox:
You could implement it yourself as a robot that inserted a gadget into
the Wave, read the state from the gadget when the language was picked,
and then remembered that state (perhaps using data documents). Or, for
a faster prototype, you can just have the robot ask the user via a
blip.
2:58 pm
Pamela Fox:
Right now, we put all of our efforts into documenting the APIs, not
the user experience. There are some nice user-contributed docs on
using Wave, like this FAQ:
https://wave.google.com/a/wavesandbox.com/#restored:search:wave+FAQ,restored:wave:wavesandbox.com!w%252BgeJRmBI7%25250
questions across the spectrum. Transcript pasted below:
Office Hours: 2009-09-03 [CLOSED]
Welcome to API office hours!
*Please top post your question or comment about the robot, gadget, or
embed API to make sure we see it. You can do so by replying to this
blip.*
*A transcript of this wave will be made publicly available. If you
don't want to appear in the transcript, delete your blip after getting
a response. Be careful not to remove neighboring blips.*
*And don't add robots to this wave!*
This is now closed, please post in the forum.
3:17 pm
Pamela Fox:
Re-pasting Alexandros question: what does the: [not-yet-implemented-
user] gave everyone access?
The answer is that it means the Wave is public - anyone with Wave
sandbox access can see the Wave. I made it public by adding
pub...@a.gwave.com as a participant.
3:16 pm
Alexandro Jimenez:
oh ok, so it is just a new message showing on waves if it is public
right?
3:16 pm
Pamela Fox:
Yes. It used to say "This wave is published at an unknown URL" but we
changed it to a perhaps even more confusing message. :)
3:17 pm
Alexandro Jimenez:
oh ok, thanks so much for the last minute question.
2:32 pm
Vadim Barsukov:
Excuse me, this again is not a question about the robots etc. But it
is often asked and it is very important, imho. If Google wants to make
GW a popular and widespread, then will have to organize support for
the new participants in the Wave. Either a special group of
volunteers, or a set of reference, help waves, or something else.
There are any news about this? September 30 is already near.
2:38 pm
Pamela Fox:
We will be supporting consumers in a similar way to how we support
consumers using other Google products - help documentation, and a
forum. It may be inside Wave or outside of it, that is yet to be seen.
We would love to see you guys helping users in the forum, and be our
super-users.
2:22 pm
Daniel Noll:
What is settie exactly and why was he implemented as a participant?
(Rather than, for example, as a separate Settings page.)
2:23 pm
Vadim Gerasimov:
The advantage is that the wave with the settie robot can be shared as
a regular wave.
2:24 pm
Daniel Noll:
Aha. So multiple users can share common settings via a shared settie
wave, and then other settings can be kept private by simply not
sharing it? I was thinking that maybe it was because the intent was
to get multiple settings waves for some other reason (settings for
bots? where the bot might be a participant in the wave along with the
settie bot, or something.)
2:23 pm
Vadim Gerasimov:
Right. You may also assist someone with the settings.
2:24 pm
David Demczuk:
So there is documentation on settie? I haven't been able to find that
info yet
2:24 pm
Vadim Gerasimov:
Settie is in embrionic state, but should do a lot more and get some
documentation soon too.
2:25 pm
David Demczuk:
Great - I think the intent or idea of it could be great - especially
from say.. an intranet or collaborative workspace point of view
2:02 pm
Vadim Barsukov:
Hi! I'm repeat my question from previous Office Hours. What will
happen with Google Wave Sandbox, when the server wave.google.com
starts working? Survives our accounts and whether they will be
transferred to a production server?
2:13 pm
Gregory Dalesandre:
Wavesandbox will live on for the forseeable future! It was started as
a way for developers to develop and test Wave extensions and will
continue to be used for this. When the primary wave.google.com
instance is created the accounts on it will be standard google
accounts. This means that if you use gmail, your Wave username will
be the same as your Gmail username. Unfortunately Google accounts
that are associated with email addresses other than Gmail will need to
choose a new unique username.
The content of the wavesandbox will not be transferred over.
2:16 pm
Daniel Noll:
Or they could move to Google Apps, right? And have their own domain
work over there. (Though I suppose if their email was hotmail...) And
thankfully I have my domain on Google Apps already. :-D
2:14 pm
Gregory Dalesandre:
Did you add it into the list at wave.google.com? Please do! :)
2:15 pm
Daniel Noll:
I did sign up for updates for that. :) I host one of my own domains'
XMPP servers separately though... I have a bad feeling that this will
interfere with things somehow. But I plan to set up FedOne over on
that at some point.
2:14 pm
James Purser:
Or they could write a client for Fedone ;)
2:15 pm
Gregory Dalesandre:
Eventually that will also be another option (that we are really
excited to have!), but not on Sept 30 :(
2:15 pm
James Purser:
Fair enough, I'll just be happy enough to federate between my own
server and wave.google
2:14 pm
Gregory Dalesandre:
Precisely! If the email is hotmail, they will need a new username.
But if you own a domain we will be turning on a limited number of
domains for Wave (and over time anyone will be able to use Wave with
Google Apps).
2:01 pm
Brian May:
Ok, I will start. I hope this is on-topic for this discussion, however
I believe it is a big issue:
How much of the sandbox client/server will be open sourced? What parts
will remain proprietary? Will the open source community be expected to
implement any missing components for it to work outside Google with
full features?
2:06 pm
Vadim Gerasimov:
The official answer is at http://googlewavedev.blogspot.com/2009/07/google-wave-federation-protocol-and.html
2:07 pm
Vadim Gerasimov:
We plan to opensource more code but haven't worked out the schedule,
yet.
2:18 pm
Brian May:
Will wait then. What happens here, I think, may be very significant to
if Wave is widely adopted or not.
2:19 pm
Pamela Fox:
The hardest part for developers to replicate will be the rich editor,
I'd say, so cross your fingers that we can get that code out to the
world. (we'll cross ours too)
2:19 pm
James Purser:
yar, fingers crossed.
2:19 pm
Brian May:
My fingers are crossed ;-).
2:25 pm
Chris Marino:
Cross our fingers? Sounds like you're hedging here. Can you be any
more specific? (you here being Google).
2:31 pm
Pamela Fox:
Lars mentioned open-sourcing the editor during the I/O keynote, but we
haven't said anything more authoritive since then. It's something we
want to do, but it will take time.
2:33 pm
Chris Marino:
Now I'm even more confused. I see now that you're talking about the
rich editor, not the entire client? Right? Assuming that's the case,
what other things that are part of the client that we might not see in
a ref impl.?
2:36 pm
Vadim Gerasimov:
We'd like to open source as much of the client code as possible. Early
2010 is our target, but it is very much to be determined.
2:38 pm
Brian May:
Do you plan to release any of the server code currently used by the
Sandbox? Or will this be the FedOne server + improvements?
2:39 pm
James Purser:
From discussions I've had with some of the Googlers, FedOne consists
of a small part of the wavesandbox server with a focus on federation.
As they work, they're bringing the two branches back into sync.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
2:42 pm
Brian May:
Hopefully you are right, and approach would make sense too.
2:46 pm
Pamela Fox:
You might want to read this forum post in addition to the blog post,
if you haven't yet: http://groups.google.com/group/wave-protocol/browse_thread/thread/618ff4e9ef477e80#
Nice snippet: "This code will evolve into the shared codebase (that
we'll use and we hope others will too)." (James is correct)
2:48 pm
Brian May:
Oh, your right, I missed that first time I read it. Thanks.
2:05 pm
Vadim Barsukov:
This is not a question but a proposal to the Google Wave team.
Since there is no list, which indicates the area of responsibility in
our team, then the developers is difficult to understand whom to
contact with questions in the Wave API group (аnd in other groups
too). And who answers them, is not always clear, too. Not everyone
writes in their nickname - "I'm a Googler". :)
Maybe somewhere there is a list of posts, job roles in the team? Like
this: "Douwe Osinga, Wave API Tech Lead". It would be useful to place
this list in the groups, IMHO. Also very important to place there the
links for issues, for the bug-tracking pages.
I apologize if this is not my area of credentials. :)
2:24 pm
Pamela Fox (and Casey Whitelaw):
Here's a tentative list of Googlers you may encounter:
Brian Kennish (Developer Relations)
Austin Chau (Developer Relations)
Pamela Fox (Developer Relations)
Douwe Osinga (Wave APIs Lead)
David Byttow (Python API Engineer)
Seth Covitz (Java API Engineer)
Vadim Gerasimov (Gadgets API Lead)
Marcel Prasetya (Java API Engineer)
Casey Whitelaw: Search, Organization, NLP (Engineer)
2:34 pm
Vadim Barsukov:
O, thank you! Now we know your heroes! :)
2:37 pm
Vadim Barsukov:
Tell me please, and who is developing a client? Where can ask
questions and write their suggestions on the client interface?
2:40 pm
Pamela Fox:
You won't see them in the forums much, since they don't make the APIs.
Some of them gave a presentation at I/O about the client, however. See
the first talk listed here: http://www.waveprotocol.org/presentations
2:56 pm
Vadim Barsukov:
And how can we discuss the interface? This is not just my curiosity.
Those who fall into the waves for the first time, ask many questions.
And it's in the main issues relating to the interface - an
incomprehensible sequence of blips in the wave, unusual scroller,
etc.
(I fear that so many revolutionary elements of the interface can make
it difficult getting used to a wave of ordinary users who are not
geeks).
How can we discuss the interface?
3:09 pm
Pamela Fox:
We don't have a great answer for that right now, since our resources
are developer-oriented currently. Most developers discuss that
interface in the Wave sandbox. We notice the discussions and keep them
in mind when figuring out how to make Wave more user-friendly. Once
the consumer preview launch happens, I would encourage you to discuss
it in the public help forum for consumers.
2:06 pm
Daniel Noll:
It seems like one way would be to have the Googlers put a little G in
their user icons. :-D
2:07 pm
Pamela Fox:
There are 2 types of Google Groups - one type that has that ability,
and one that doesn't. We are using the latter because it has better
email support and developers like to subscribe via email.
2:12 pm
Vadim Barsukov:
Maybe do so here, in the Wave? Special avatars or icons for the
team. :)
2:19 pm
Pamela Fox:
Hmm, yeah, could do. *Opens up photoshop.
2:08 pm
Pamela Fox:
Hmm, good suggestion. I intended to do an intro post of everyone that
posts in the group, but I never did - I'll do that shortly. We usually
try and have engineers append "(Googler)" to the end, but that is
tricky with groups. Please note that you shouldn't be directing your
questions to Googlers, you should direct them to everyone in the
forum. We like when people help eachother.
2:08 pm
Andi Albrecht:
Is there any timeline when we can expect a new version of the Python
API?
2:15 pm
Pamela Fox:
It's safe to say it will be out before 9/30 (consumer preview), but
it's unclear how much before then. You could keep the weekend before
free.. :)
2:16 pm
Andi Albrecht:
Thanks! Noted in my calendar :)
2:09 pm
James Purser:
as a supplemental, when will it be or is it already possible to get
the real id of waves created by robots under the python API?
2:18 pm
Pamela Fox:
Don't think so, not yet.
2:18 pm
James Purser:
bugger. Going to slow down a couple of projects I'm working on.
2:12 pm
Brian May:
What do the archive/mute operations do? How is this different from
"move to trash"? I have not been able to locate any definite
documentation.
2:21 pm
Casey Whitelaw:
Hi Brian,
Here's what archive and mute do.
Archive removes the wave from your inbox. It's still searchable, and
shows up in your folders and in All. The wave will stay out of the
inbox until it is changed. All changes cause the wave to come back to
the inbox. You can use this when you've finished dealing with a wave,
and want it out of your inbox.
Mute removes the wave from your inbox, and keeps it out. It's like a
permanent "archive" setting. Again, it's still searchable, and will
show in your folders, and in All. You can use this if you want to keep
a wave around, but don't want it nagging you.
Move to Trash mutes a wave, but also makes it not searchable, unless
you explicitly look in Trash. You can use this when you never expect
to want to look at a wave again.
The behaviour of archive and mute may be tweaked to be more wave-y in
the future, but that's the basic gist.
2:22 pm
Brian May:
That description helps a lot, thanks.
2:22 pm
Casey Whitelaw:
You're welcome!
2:28 pm
Patrick Mullen:
What are the plans for the draft mode, and is there an ETA on it?
1. Will draft mode happen mostly on the client (dont send keystrokes
until sent), or mostly on the server (keystrokes sent but not
broadcast
2. How will draft mode interact with robots (and maybe gadgets) - do
the robots still get to modify as you type while you are in draft mode
etc
3. How much persistence will draft mode have? Only one blip? Within a
wave? An "always on" draft mode for those more private people?
4. What if I don't want draft mode in my wave, is there a way to force
it off? For instance, in an editing situation.
5. Similarly, will robots (and maybe gadgets) be able to get the draft
mode state of users
3:02 pm
Vadim Gerasimov:
The draft feature in _not_ expected to be ready by Sep 30. It will be
implemented soon afterwards. At the moment it's hard to comment on
particular implementation specifics. But the draft mode is going to be
optional. If you want to turn it off you will be able to do so. In the
gadgets it would likely be controlled by the gadget developer.
2:50 pm
Patrick Mullen:
So the gadget might be able to get the users draft mode status, and
then the developer can customize their interface accordingly?
2:53 pm
Vadim Gerasimov:
The gadget API does not allow the gadget to extract the information
outside the gadget element (at least not yet). So, the gadget would
determine how to update the state from within the gadget UI. The
gadgets will know whether the user wants "draft mode". But the gadgets
will choose how to behave in the draft mode.
2:53 pm
Patrick Mullen:
Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for your response!
2:49 pm
Patrick Mullen:
Default on or default off? I understand if you don't know this yet.
3:03 pm
Vadim Gerasimov:
To be determined.
2:27 pm
David Demczuk:
Is there a customisation on the way to view a wave? ie the latest
replies first or something? Having difficulty finding the latest
updates to a wave without playback.
2:30 pm
Brian May:
Personally I would like to be able to hide/unhide read blips, I think
this would make it easier to locate stuff that has changed.
2:31 pm
David Demczuk:
yes this is the sort of thing I was wondering
Even an arrow or something indicating where edits are happening in
real time too - for example in this wave theres answers and edits
happening all over the wave.
2:34 pm
Pamela Fox:
Those are good ideas - none of which exist yet.
2:35 pm
David Demczuk:
so are those sorts of things envisioned as more of a job for robots?
Ie each person would have their own "armada" of cutomization bots for
their preferences?
Or have I missed the point somewhere
2:36 pm
James Purser:
These are client tasks, rather than robot tasks I think. Like Email
Clients.
2:32 pm
Patrick Mullen:
+1 for arrows!
2:28 pm
James Purser:
One more for FedOne, what plans are there to bring persistance to the
FedOne server?
2:32 pm
Pamela Fox:
Not in the near future - closer goals are to have the fedone impl use
proper blip/document structure.
2:33 pm
Brian May:
Does this mean FedOne will get full support for OT? Or is this a
seperate unrelated issue?
2:36 pm
Pamela Fox:
Yes, that is also a priority. Likely not until after 9/30.
2:32 pm
James Purser:
okay, but I'm assuming patches welcome :)
2:33 pm
Pamela Fox:
we <3 patches. (significant changes might require a branch of course,
but that discussion can happen once patches are proposed).
2:55 pm
David Demczuk:
Is this the appropriate place to ask questions on rosy-etta?
2:55 pm
Pamela Fox:
Well, peeps have asked question on everything today. So, ask, and
we'll see if we can find an answer.
2:58 pm
David Demczuk:
Great - really just wanted information on how to make it work!
Example what languages it translates from/to
I am having some difficulty finding information in general about
wave.... point me to a few good spots for info? (please)
Would be nice to have an intro pack when allocated a sandbox
account...
3:00 pm
Pamela Fox:
The latest FAQ says its not working, but I haven't tested it recently.
I'm guessing the translated languages are the ones that our translate
API supports, as it likely uses that behind the scenes:
http://code.google.com/apis/ajaxlanguage/documentation/#SupportedPairs
I'll try it out now.
3:01 pm
David Demczuk:
Cool, I guess I was more referring to how to tell rosy what to
translate. Ie if I am online with my parent company in Italy I would
want my text translated to italian and their text translated to
Australian (english would do :-) )
3:02 pm
Pamela Fox:
Have you watched the I/O keynote? They demo'ed it there, so that would
show you the usage at that time.
3:02 pm
David Demczuk:
yes I did - was one of the key items I was interested in - didn't
really show HOW they did it though lol
3:04 pm
Pamela Fox:
Okay, it appears that Rosy is currently "under construction". We will
likely post in the forum when it/she is working again. You could try
making your own translation bot with the API I pointed you to, if you
want to play around with interaction possibilities. I'm not sure what
the experience will be like using Rosy once she's up again, there may
be some changes.
3:05 pm
David Demczuk:
Thanks for the response - I'll have a look - those links you sent are
great! reading them now. Appreciate your time in answering my queries
today.
3:06 pm
Pamela Fox:
Update: The UI before was that Rosy was added, you were greeted with a
form element to pick the the language to translate to -- Rosy can
detect the language being used. From the on, for the wave, it would
use that setting.
3:07 pm
David Demczuk:
Ahh I see - I thought something like that happened. I'm still getting
my head around the wave model - I'm still thinking in client mode most
of the time.
3:10 pm
Pamela Fox:
You could implement it yourself as a robot that inserted a gadget into
the Wave, read the state from the gadget when the language was picked,
and then remembered that state (perhaps using data documents). Or, for
a faster prototype, you can just have the robot ask the user via a
blip.
2:58 pm
Pamela Fox:
Right now, we put all of our efforts into documenting the APIs, not
the user experience. There are some nice user-contributed docs on
using Wave, like this FAQ:
https://wave.google.com/a/wavesandbox.com/#restored:search:wave+FAQ,restored:wave:wavesandbox.com!w%252BgeJRmBI7%25250
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