Why not to use western union
dotsony
So, I finally got my payments for GSoC, ultimately as a Check. Let me
explain
why it is that western union is a bad way to send money.
I realize that for people in certain countries there may be compelling
reasons
to use Wstern Union. Fine. But for people in the US and Europe, it's
much
better to have a check. Corporate checks tend to clear quickly.
If you live in the Europe or North America, and for some reason you
are
incabable of handling checks, you really need to get with the program.
I
strongly believe that you should have the option to receive your
payment as a
check no matter where you live. It's the normal way to transfer money,
especially between an employer and its employees. If for some reason
you can't
wait to receive your stipend, then there's electronic transfers, which
are
every bit as convenient. All you need is a bank account, and you
really should
have one of those.
1 Cost
Let's face it, western union charges google money. Checks cost a few
pennies.
3 Convenience
I do banking on a regular basis. I write and receive checks all the
time. It's
simple, and my bank is within walking distance. This is the first
time I've
had to deal with western union, and let me tell you, the experience
did not go
smoothly. It took multiple trips and I had to go out of my way. The
western
union offices are only open at certain times, whereas my bank lets me
deposit
24 hours a day via ATM.
I had to go to a special western union office because of the amount of
money
being dispensed, and it turned out that even they were unable to
dispense
enough cash! So they printed checks! Wouldn't it be better to cut out
the
middle man?
Moreover, I have up to a year to cash a check, whereas Western Union
transactions expire within 30 days. I did a lot of traveling this
summer, and
I was unable to pick up my initial payment before the transaction
expired.
This delayed my payment over two months! If the check had come in the
mail,
it would have been a simple matter to deposit it upon returning,
because it
would still be good. Also, since western union transactions in
California have
to be sent to a specific address, I have to be near my house, whereas
my bank
would let me deposit at any branch. This seems pretty silly, given
that
Western Union is a wire transfer service. All of this is especially
frustrating, because
I live within driving distance of Google.
3 Security
Checks are very secure. Cash is not. I trust banks. I do not trust
western
union. For example, Craigs
List scams frequently involve Western Union. A lot of western union
offices
are seedy check cashing places, and their clientele tend to scare me.
I was
more than a bit uneasy at the prospect of walking out of the building
with
$2500USD in my wallet. If I were robbed, I'd loose that money.
Finally, and
here's the real shocker: *THEY ASKED FOR MY SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER* I
should
have walked out then and there, but at this point, I just wanted to
get it
over with. That scares me. A lot. Google, and the bank,
already have my social. They would not need my social to send a check.
So there. I don't like Western Union. Please give us the option of
receiving a check
in future.
Laurynas Biveinis
> reasons
> to use Wstern Union. Fine. But for people in the US and Europe, it's
> much
> better to have a check. Corporate checks tend to clear quickly.
Of course it is the "normal way" to transfer money in North America,
but that's not true in other parts of the world, including Europe,
which you mention. Checks have almost completely vanished from
European banking, the international ones are not that cheap to cash
and it takes a while (a few weeks).
Google did use checks last year, and I can only guess that they do not
use them this year because of the numerous complaints from the
participants outside North America. Sending money all over the world
is not a simple affair and I'm sure that they work hard on improving
their payment methods all the time.
--
Laurynas
James
1) It gives Google a ( mostly ) single interface to make payments to
everyone. If there are any problems Google goes to Western Union - where
as with a check you end up having to work with potentially hundreds of
different banks worldwide - each with their own rules and expectations (
That just sounds like hell to me ).
2) Also we are not employees of Google- so how do they account for these
checks? With Sarbanes-Oxley accounting rules you can no longer just pay
money out of a black hole, with WU they get some form of receipt showing
the transaction. Which they can then account for.
3) WU lowers Google's risk, if someone steals your payment it becomes an
issue for WU and you - As it is WU's job to validate your identity. Much
of the cost of WU is probably security related
My guesses as to why they chose WU could be extremely wrong, but coming
from a small business (family business) background those are issues we
have had. For us it all comes down to accounting - we use credit cards
then pay those with checks, employees are paid via direct deposit, and
we write maybe 10 checks a month. - Also don't forget corporate checking
is not free the checks themselves cost money and the bank usually
charges by volume of transactions ( that is our case ) - then you have
to account for all of that.
Those are my guesses! I hate checks though so I am biased ><
James
dotsony
> Of course it is the "normal way" to transfer money in North America,
> but that's not true in other parts of the world, including Europe,
> which you mention. Checks have almost completely vanished from
> European banking, the international ones are not that cheap to cash
> and it takes a while (a few weeks).
I guess we better get with the program over here then. Also, I wish i
could re-edit the post and fix the justification. I hard-wrapped it to
80 columns, but apparently google wraps it to something else. My
appologies.
Sam Moffatt
anything. The only time I am given a check is usually when I'm dealing
with small clubs and associations - almost everything else from my old
social security payments and my current employer all pay via direct
debit because it is easier for them. They do it with the rest of their
transactions and they have a standard banking software that makes
these transactions easy, especially at the medium sized business level
where a lot of software will integrate into their accounting software.
Over the last year I have had maybe two or three checks which take
longer to clear than a direct debit payment (in fact at present I'm
waiting on a check to clear that if it had of been direct debit would
have been in my bank account days ago), and international checks take
much longer than an international wire transfer and can have fees
associated with them. Whilst North America might rely on checks, bank
to bank wire transfers are easier, cheaper and faster in Australia,
and it appears in Europe.
On the subject of Western Union in Australia it appears that Australia
Post, the national postal service, counts as a pick up point for
Western Union. I'm not sure on the technicalities of things with
respect to collection points, but my local post office would be useful
for me, though I'd much prefer have it directly put in my bank, like
everything else.
Sam
--
Sam Moffatt
http://pasamio.id.au
Pinaraf
In Germany, they're never used. In Germany, that's rather cash or
cards (but often a german specific card instead of VISA). In France,
that's checks, cards or cash, but checks are prefered. You'd never for
instance pay the reparation of you car with cash in France, seldomly
with cash. You'd use checks.
I have no experience with money in other countries, I think checks are
used in Belgium and UK too...
Bobby Bingham
My understanding's always been it's best to wrap email to 72 columns or
so, because that allows for several levels of quoting to still fit
within 80 columns.
Also, I can't speak for the rest of Asia, but in Japan, at least,
checks are a pain to work with. I never tried while I was there, but
I've heard horror stories.
--
Bobby Bingham
Never trust atoms. Or anything made of atoms.
このメールは再利用されたバイトでできている。
sjstr...@gmail.com
Canada as well as some parts of Europe, wire transfer is easily my
most common and preferred mode of receiving payments. It's fast,
relatively cheap, and secure. Cheques (or checks if you must ;)) are
the backup for less important, typically smaller payments. I've never
used Western Union but having looked into it recently because it had
been mentioned as an option I was immediately sure I'd never want to,
it seems to be a pretty clunky payment method from a bygone era. I
don't even have a WU office anywhere near me so it's not even
practical.
I assume there must be some people for whom the international banking
system isn't an option, but I would have thought that group is
diminishing all the time. There certainly won't be any UK students
without bank accounts, being chained to the bank (via your student
loan and overdraft) is a guaranteed part of the experience.
Cheers
Steve
On Jul 29, 11:16 am, Pinaraf <pina...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In Europe, checks are still widely used, depending on the country.
> In Germany, they're never used. In Germany, that's rather cash or
> cards (but often a german specific card instead of VISA). In France,
> that's checks, cards or cash, but checks are prefered. You'd never for
> instance pay the reparation of you car with cash in France, seldomly
> with cash. You'd use checks.
> I have no experience with money in other countries, I think checks are
> used in Belgium and UK too...
>
Leslie Hawthorn
So let me start off by saying that no payment method is going to be optimal for 900 participants across 90 countries. That being said, we had many problems last year paying folks by check, from the time it takes to get a check cut to the number of folks unable to cash a check from the United States. Wire transfers are difficult because it's very easy to have something go wrong with the transfer - one digit off, misentered code, holds on transfers from foreign countries of up to two months, etc., etc.
Western Union has its problems, but at least we can send funds immediately and you can pick them up within one day of the payment being issued. We're continuing to look into ways to make our payment process better, but Western Union has - for all of its problems - proved a tremendous improvement over last year.
Cheers,
LH
Thijs Kinkhorst
On Monday 30 July 2007 17:50, Leslie Hawthorn wrote:
> Western Union has its problems, but at least we can send funds immediately
> and you can pick them up within one day of the payment being issued. We're
> continuing to look into ways to make our payment process better, but
> Western Union has - for all of its problems - proved a tremendous
> improvement over last year.
Thank you for your reply. May I suggest the following - I have in another
capacity very good experience with receiving money from your collegues at
Google AdSense. They're offering a choice in ways to accept payments and they
even use an account locally in my country to transfer money to my account.
Maybe you could investigate the possibility to use their existing payment
infrastructure for next year?
regards,
Thijs Kinkhorst
SquirrelMail project
Leslie Hawthorn
Certainly a great idea, and we explored that for Summer of Code. Unfortunately, repurposing an AdSense account for other payments was not an option for various reasons, especially since not everyone has an AdSense account.
Best,
LH
araujo
people from different countries.
I had only heard about WU before working with this GSoC program, and
for me, it was very very easy, they even didn't ask me for the MTCN
number in the first payment (it was enough to tell them that Google
was sending me a payment), and the transaction just took a couple of
minutes.
I see that some people have had a few problems, it seems to me like
every WU office has its own policy, but at the end, i think they are
very 'local' policies and therefore are difficult to track.
About the checks, i really don't like the idea, they use to take too
long to withdraw here, plus you have to pay too much for such a
transaction in some countries.
Regards,
Keith Bowes
>
> If you live in the Europe or North America, and for some reason you
> are
> incabable of handling checks, you really need to get with the program.
I don't know. I had far more problems depositing the money in my
checking account than I did getting the money from Western Union in
the first place. I know a lot of people who don't go to the hassle of
checking accounts. They just walk into the office and pay the bill in
cash instead of mailing the check.
> I was
> more than a bit uneasy at the prospect of walking out of the building
> with
> $2500USD in my wallet.
Odd. I was told that they couldn't give me that amount of money in
cash, so they ended up giving me checks that I had to cash at my
bank. One of the (dis)advantages to living in a small town, I
suppose.
> I don't like Western Union.
I've read a lot of horror stories on this list, so I was justifiably
nervous both times. But both times, it went over very well. I went
in, filled out the form, handed them my ID, and had a little
conversation while they entered information in the computer and
printed my checks. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.
am
> I don't know. I had far more problems depositing the money in my
> checking account than I did getting the money from Western Union in
> the first place.
Same here; picking up the money at WU was a snap. However, I just
finished moving shortly before the project started, and I didn't yet
have a checking account at a local bank at my new place, so I figured
I could send the WU checks to my online bank and have them deposited.
Wrong! They wouldn't accept them, and I had to wait on them to get
returned in the mail so I could go cash them (at WU) and then get the
cash where it needed to go.
Yeah, it's lame that my bank won't take WU checks, and now I know what
to do for the final payment, but more payment options would be nice.
I'd rather risk a Google data entry person typing routing and account
numbers into their payment app than having to walk from WU to an ATM
with $2000 in my pocket. Maybe figuring out how to efficiently use
more than one payment method would make a nice Summer of Code project
next year? ;)
Christian King
> I agree, in Australia I am routinely paid by direct debit for almost
> anything. The only time I am given a check is usually when I'm dealing
> with small clubs and associations - almost everything else from my old
> social security payments and my current employer all pay via direct
> debit because it is easier for them. They do it with the rest of their
> transactions and they have a standard banking software that makes
> these transactions easy, especially at the medium sized business level
> where a lot of software will integrate into their accounting software.
> Over the last year I have had maybe two or three checks which take
> longer to clear than a direct debit payment (in fact at present I'm
> waiting on a check to clear that if it had of been direct debit would
> have been in my bank account days ago), and international checks take
> much longer than an international wire transfer and can have fees
> associated with them. Whilst North America might rely on checks, bank
> to bank wire transfers are easier, cheaper and faster in Australia,
> and it appears in Europe.
Totally agree.
In my whole life I have received one check, ever, and I have never
written one.
> On the subject of Western Union in Australia it appears that Australia
> Post, the national postal service, counts as a pick up point for
> Western Union. I'm not sure on the technicalities of things with
> respect to collection points, but my local post office would be useful
> for me, though I'd much prefer have it directly put in my bank, like
> everything else.
I have collected money from Australia Post offices. Both times I took it
as cash and it was fast and easy. All that is required is you fill out
one of the WU receiving forms, go to the counter, show ID, and get your
money. However I am told that it is possible to make bank deposits with
an ATM card at Australia Post offices. Next time I think I will try to
get the people at the post office to put the money into a bank deposit,
instead of cash. (Australia Post has a list of banks which allow this
here : http://www.auspost.com.au/BCP/0,1467,CH2019%257EMO19,00.html)
Leslie Hawthorn
Let's kill this thread. :)
Cheers,
LH
Joel Bryan Juliano
Here, Western Union, it's easy to get money, but it's also easy to get robbed, because here, most of the Western Union place are booths with 1" inch rod bars, like a prison cell and with no guards, and most of the Western Union installations are in the crowded areas, like a fish/wet market, public transportation stations, probably because Western Unions doesn't really require huge rooms to be a booth.
As for me, I really don't care, if it's money, then it's appreciation and gratitude given to me. it must be that good. :-)