High Tension Line

[Charlie L]

Currently in the Help files for High Tension Line, it says:

Electrical poles - one or two power lines supported by a single wooden or metal post or pole - do not qualify as high tension lines and should not be mapped.

What do we mean by "Electrical Poles"? If you mean the Standard 12m Low-Voltage Distribution poles, yes, I agree that the lines they carry are not High Tension Lines. But what about Medium- or High-Voltage Distribution poles? Often, they are a tubular pylon (i.e. very tall metal post) or a wood-composite pylon (i.e. very tall multi-layed wooden pole), but sometimes are still found carrying High Tension Lines on a steel lattice pylons. The Extra High- and Ultra High-Voltage Distribution are still done on the old-fashioned steel lattice pylons, and without a doubt, they definitely carry High Tension Lines.

Do we need to clarify the language on the Help?

[Nuclear Moose]

No, we don't need to clarify it by adding seven or eight levels of complexity. Very funny post though!

[Charlie L]

I'm glad you found it funny, but I'm serious.

My question was not answered: Are lines for Medium- and High-Voltage distribution considered "High Tension Lines"? Because, the definition excludes poles, but Medium- and High-Voltage distribution, especially the newer models, are on poles... just very, very tall poles (i.e. tubular pylons and composite pylons).  Medium- and High-Voltage distribution can be along the old steel lattice pylons, or these newer poles or alternate depending on the right-of-way constraints for the pylon footprint.

If a new mapper were to look at the Help, and if they know anything about electrical distribution, the way it is currently presented, Medium- and High-Voltage distribution lines become very ambiguous.

[Nuclear Moose]

If you have the time and inclination to categorize/catalogue or otherwise group high tension lines to this degree, then by all means, go for it. If you can persuade me that this level of detail would be necessary for a majority of people who search Google Maps to find a business or service or other destination, then I would happily support your efforts.

Given that categories are a problem experienced by GMM editors across the globe, you would be lucky to convince them or Google that you need to be this detailed with mapping high tension wires based on the poles on which they are hung.

I'm saying that there are much bigger issues that have direct impacts on Google Map users. If you are a utility company, you want this information - but you would already have it in your own internal systems anyway.

Too much detail is as bad as too little. Of course this is only an opinion, and it's not a statement of fact. I'm suggesting that you are very passionate about accuracy and detail and those are great qualities to have as a Map Maker community member, but you should channel that energy into areas that have the widest use and advantage for the average Google Map User.

Cheers to you for taking the time to post your ideas and to defend them! We need people like you to help the community grow and strengthen.

Craig

RER | Advocate

Canada

[Mutant Platypus]

The user guide is ambiguous, so there isn't really a good answer to your question.  The closest answer is no, if most people wouldn't call them "high tension lines", then it's unlikely to be approved by Google Reviewers. I wouldn't mind having these new pylons mapped as high tension lines, but you have to convince a Google Reviewer to approve your edits that add them.  Most people who aren't electrical engineers (and even some electrical engineers who didn't take a Power Systems class) associate "high tension line" with the steel lattice pylons, typically carrying 3 or 5 phases.  Ask any non-expert, and those 3 or 5 phases becomes "lots of wires, compared to normal power lines and telephone poles."  Most people can't tell what the voltage of a line is by looking at it.  Even fewer can tell what the capacity of the line is.

Google Maps and Mapmaker are focused mostly on transportation.  High tension lines are mapped because they can provide a landmark to help with navigation.  It's not concerned with other infrastructure because there isn't enough demand for it.  I would say we should map these lines on tubular pylons because their voltages would still require large vegetation and building clearance so the line would stand out both from the ground and from satellite/aerial photos.

However, until such time as they are included, you have the option of mapping them using My Maps at maps.google.com (as opposed to google.com/mapmaker) or Google Earth.  You can share these maps publicly and allow others to collaborate in mapping the electrical grid.  If and when the lines are allowed in Google Maps, you can easily use them as an overlay in Mapmaker to add them relatively quickly.  Or perhaps Google might even make an automated system that copies your power grid map to the Maps database.

[Charlie L]

Hm.
Well, high tension lines go as far down as 66 kV AC and 50 kV DC, but steel lattice pylons go down to 50 kV (either AC or DC) and only down to 100 kV AC on newer pylons while the steel tube pylons and multiple-member wood poles go up to 345 kV AC, and composite wood pylons/poles goes up to 115 kV AC.
Maybe the what is needed are pictures of the classic steel lattice pylons and steel tube pylons as clear-cut examples of towers carrying high tension lines, and a note saying to not to draw the lines on wooden poles, multiple-member poles and composite wood pylons, but as some high tension lines may be carried on those structures, in cases of high tension lines supported on those members, to draw only those that can be easily verified to be 100 kV (either AC or DC) or higher... basically eliminating all subtransmission, distribution and delivery lines (i.e. high tension low-range high voltage lines, high and low tension mid voltage lines and low tension low voltage lines), while ensuring all transmission lines are not excluded from being drawn.

[Mutant Platypus]

If you want to suggest an addition to the Map Maker tool set, you can use the issue tracker here.  You'll want to submit a new issue under the Feature Enhancement category.  Perhaps an entire set of electrical distribution categories and tools?

If all you want to do is modify the User Guide descriptions of HTLs to include more types, I'm not sure what the official channel to suggest changes to the User Guide is.