Moving intersections and the review process

[KaliJay]

I like editing roads.

I'd estimate that 95% of my edits are related to road names, adding new roads, and adjusting road alignment to match satellite imagery (something I'm sure will bite me when the imagery is updated, but for now it looks good). I also try to keep my edits to areas I am personally familiar with. All of my road edits (well, 99% anyway) are within 20 miles of my home or work location. 

That being said, I'm sometimes quite surprised to see that I've managed over 7000 edits in what basically amounts to a 2 or 3 county area of Georgia. I'm sure I've added or corrected hundreds of road names, removed dozens of roads that seem to be completely randomly generated, and spent way too much time getting curves and loops in roads looking neat. Maybe I'm a little OCD...

OK, so here's the problem. Map Maker trusts me enough to allow me to edit, create, and delete any road up to a Minor Artery. I feel I've earned that trust and stand by all of my work. Unfortunately, something as simple as moving an intersection in a parking lot requires me to get reviewer approval! That's so strange since I can simply delete every road involved and redraw them without approval (but at the risk of losing valuable edit history, comments, and turn restrictions). I can also create a temporary road at the intersection and use that new road to move the intersection without approval (then deleting the temporary road and leaving a small, red, dashed line for a few days in map maker). The latter being the less destructive means of self-approved intersection moving...but still feeling like I was somehow misusing the system.

There are plenty of ways to get the work done without approvals, but they're all flawed in some way and none of them would make me feel good about my edits. So for the most part (yes, there are exceptions) I just move the intersections, align the connected segments, and wait for approval. Sure, it doesn't usually take too long (except for weekends), but it causes me to sometimes forget where I was working and leave stuff unfinished. I do try to take notes, but sometimes I'll see something I had started last week and forgot about while waiting for a weekend approval.

So, I guess the question is, will I ever be able to move these intersections (yes, I can move a path/trail intersection without approval, but seriously...what use is that?!?) and will I eventually be able to edit some of the Major Arteries in the area? Or are these abilities beyond the average map maker user?

Just wondering. I'm getting by just fine, and barring all the rendering problems, everything is starting to look really good, but I'd really like to be able to finish an area without waiting for a dozen approvals or leaving a mess of deleted roads in my path. :)

[Wthrwyz]

+1 to this.

It is absolutely insane that one can create an intersection without approval, yet be unable to modify the same intersection without Big Brother's approval.  This seems a huge waste of both time and GR resources.

[I MAP]

Infact, I am very surprised to hear that deletions go without approval and minor intersection movement requires approval.

My guess, GMM not working in the manner it has been asked to:)

[Saikrishna Arcot]

Same with me. I can't even move the intersection of terminal roads. Therefore, I try to move them while creating roads (Minor Artery or lower), as approval isn't required for that (there seem to be exceptions to this, though).

[djboge]

Hey now, you guys just stay happy that you can still edit roads without approval! :P

[Saikrishna Arcot]

That's true. We need to be thankful that we can (in most cases) edit roads below Minor Artery.

[Wthrwyz]

Indeed.  Although I will say that the current review requirements do lead to some interesting edit workflow.  They also leave a few loopholes if you know the exact sequence in order to change things.  I won't point out everything I've discovered for fear of enabling malicious users (not to mention getting my back doors taken away), but I will say this: it seems to matter more what you are changing a road to rather than what it was.  This leads to situations where—if you know what you are doing—you can get quite a bit of work done and all that will need review is a final priority change.

Aside from intersections, the other counter-intuitive "feature" is the fact that placing any segment usage other than ETA/PL on a road will cause it to go into moderation regardless of priority.

[KaliJay]

I guess I'm not alone in finding creative ways to get work done. :)  I've also avoided posting many of these tricks for the same reasons, yet I suspect that anyone who's done significant road editing will accidentally discover most of them anyway. 

Waiting until the very end of an edit to upgrade a road to anything above Minor Artery and/or adding any segment usage doesn't bother me at all. It's like having a sandbox to work in where you can get everything right before asking a reviewer to approve the finished project rather than each part of an exit ramp or highway change.

Off topic: anyone other than me ever make changes on Map Maker and not get instant approval as expected, only to realize you're logged in under the wrong Google account? Happens to me all the time since my primary Google account is a Google Apps account which doesn't permit you to create a Profile and hence makes your edits show up as Anonymous. I had to create a normal gmail.com account so I could create a named profile in Map Maker. I suspect quite a lot of the Anonymous edits are people with Google Apps accounts who would all be more than glad to setup a profile if Google would allow it. :-/

[Wthrwyz]

No...but I have made a change, not gotten instant approval, undone said edit, then made the exact same changes a second time and gotten instant approval.  It seems there is a bit of a random factor in the process which determines whether something will need to be reviewed.

[KaliJay]

Happens all the time. Slight changes in the next edit usually allow it to get instant approval. Like you said, it seems random sometimes.

Other times it's because I'm logged into the wrong account....which now has over 800 edits as a result of being used accidentally so often. I don't attempt to review my own edits, but have done so by accident when one of my other edits shows up for review and I forget I was the one who made the change... :)

Often I just let it go to approval figuring it won't hurt to get some "positive" feedback on my changes now and then anyway.

[Amereservant]

+1 for me too.  I've been taking more time lately to draw missing parking lot road segments, but I've become a little more reluctant due to the fact a satellite image update could throw the alignment all off and it'd take FOREVER realigning it, which I'd probably leave it jacked up.

I personally think the significance of intersection edits needs to be lowered and instead match the highest priority road segment that it's joining, that way it takes on the same approval requirements as a road segment.

I've been correcting a few multi-lane on/off intersections and those have been a long and slow process.
If an editor has "X" number of approved edits regarding that type of edit, then they should be given a higher level of privilege by not requiring approvals on edits they're familiar with.
I suppose that makes too much sense, but it's discouraging for Google Mappers who sincerely try correcting things and abide by the guidelines to be hindered in these ways and in many ways can be very counter-productive.

I hope this IS fixed in the future and a better solution implemented.

Thanks!

[Greg Noel]

Um, could I refer you to the Project Zone proposal?  If it's implemented, all you'd have to do is create a project for the parking lot and then edit away: all edit types would be unlocked, including moving intersections.  If you like the idea, don't hesitate to star (i.e., vote for) the issue.

[Troy G]

+1 on moving intersections.

I used to be able to add, edit, delete any road upto minor artery without any issues, but still couldn't move intersections without waiting for approval. Now that I am a regional expert reviewer I seem to have lost some of my previous ability's, so be happy you can do what you can still. Now I can only add terminal ETA/parking lots 99% of the time without going up for approval.

I can't delete anything, move intersections, edit minor arterys(or add them), or sometimes I even cant do a simple thing like change a local road to terminal(like when I review an edit & the user choose the wrong road priority & I offer to change it for them after I approve). This kinda makes reviewing pointless when I cant even correct issues I find with peoples edits.

I have complained about this on a few occasions & things get back to normal for about a week, then I'm back to the usual wait for approval.  I assume this maybe due to the amount of edits I make every week, but those numbers also have to do with the amount I review & need to tweak. 

[Mihai]

Hi,

Any update on this issue?
I still cannot move intersections without needing moderation for many.
Here are some examples:

http://www.google.com/mapmaker?gw=55&editids=EC0KwWYB7_DXTMVI0h&iwloc=0_0
http://www.google.com/mapmaker?gw=55&editids=EC0KwWYAI0yQ9xyQR_&iwloc=0_0
http://www.google.com/mapmaker?gw=55&editids=EC0KwWYv63kImv26jI&iwloc=0_0

[Mihai]

Update...

I have discovered that this issue is related to the location info of the segments.
If I edit the location info of the segments and add the missing, but available, state details, then the intersections will no longer go under moderation.

[KaliJay]

I don't know when it changed, but I haven't had an intersection go into review for the last several days. No more complaints from me! 

[KalebsDad78]

It changed in the last update that was published a few weeks ago.  It is a very welcome update.

[Wthrwyz]

Welcome indeed.  Although, I've noticed that I can also edit railway intersections without moderation while railway segments require review - in other words, the complete opposite of what roads did for so long

Consistency is not GMM's strong suit.

[Jaxcoffee]

Hey Jay? Would you be so kind as to contact me please. In reference to this forum post. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/google-mapmaker/7sWe1a3xsJg

I sure would appreciate your help.

Thanks