Concerning private drive/driveway.

[Robert Coon]

In the area where I live there are several of the older "homestead"-type farms: these are often distinguished by a house surrounded by fields with a long drive between the house and the nearest road. Some may have one or two residences accessing this drive in cases where a family member built a second residence on the property. Some well-meaning mapper or perhaps a road identification algorithm has many of these marked as roads possibly due to the length (some are 1/2 mi or more) and width of the drive which is necessary for large agricultural equipment. Yet these features are not intended as public access roads.

Here's an example:
http://www.google.com/mapmaker?ll=40.743201,-82.68818&spn=0.005698,0.009484&t=h&z=17&gw=11&category=Road&ctype=289&qmo=pend
The drive is the longish "stub" proceeding east from the NS road.

Is it fair to assume that these drives should be removed, perhaps adding the comment "Private drive" for the reviewer?

[Alan Nudi]

Bob, I believe you can mark then as "terminal access".

I'm sorry, my explanation isn't that great.  Here's a link with more details:  http://goo.gl/COj8B

[Robert Coon]

Alan,

Thanks for replying so quickly.

I thought about terminal roads, but the example seems to imply (to me, at least) that these are still public-access roads leading to/from POIs. If one of the roads in question led to...say a public-accessible Bird Sanctuary...I wouldn't question it, but the type I am referring to is a person's private driveway.

Maybe this is a larger question of should we map to the doorstep of a private residence?

[Alan Nudi]

Hi Bob,

I see what you mean.  This is not a road at all.  In fact, these are essentially "trails" that someone made with their trucks from driving on them a lot.  I personally have several farmer friends, and often times, these "roads" can change almost every year.  For others, they never change.  Unfortunately, I cannot give you an accurate answer on the topic, and will have to leave this one for the pros.  Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

[timch...@gmail.com]

Nope, not a trial, but a really long driveway.  In Iowa I see this often, we call them Lanes.   These are private, usually gravel, but permanent, not a "trail".  Google maps decided that they're roads, because people on the left coast can't fathom a driveway that long.  There really should be a "Private" selection below Terminal Road, and maybe a list of addresses that can be accessed via that driveway.  That way, when you get directions to an address, it will only send you down that road if it can really be access via that driveway.

[Robert Coon]

timchampion,

Yes, that's the idea! Personally, I live on a named lane, which is considered to be semi-private, which means that there are other residences that share highway access via this lane which leads to nowhere other than these residences (and also provides access for farmers to the adjacent fields). The lane in the example above is not named and may be described as a lane or a drive/driveway interchangeably. If I lived in the house, I would most likely refer to it as my drive/driveway.

[deltafox]

Actually 'terminal' means 'private'. The name changed from Terminal to Private then back to Terminal a few months ago. In french 'Terminal' it is still traduced as 'Route privée' ('Private road')

[zxrayz]

as Deltafox said, Terminal = Private in the GMM world

Also, Terminal roads are not supposed to be including when creating routes. So if a route is create from point A to some point on the Terminal (private) road; the route 'should' stop at the start of the Terminal road, I would assume.  -  Can anyone confirm this? (We have no addresses in may area and the routing tool unfortunately does not appear to work by select start and ending points. )

[Denis Flament]

Le 27 avr. 2011 à 19:03, zxrayz a écrit :

> as Deltafox said, Terminal = Private in the GMM world
>
> Also, Terminal roads are not supposed to be including when creating routes. So if a route is create from point A to some point on the Terminal (private) road; the route 'should' stop at the start of the Terminal road, I would assume. - Can anyone confirm this? (We have no addresses in may area and the routing tool unfortunately does not appear to work by select start and ending points.

no, Routing tool (segment selecting) works with directions finding algorithm which find its way into private (Terminal) roads as long as one destination is inside the private area. Thus it works

[Robert Coon]

I can verify Denis' statement. As I mentioned above, I live on a named lane which is a Terminal Road. When I get directions they include travel along the Terminal Road (lane) and then right/left at the highway.

Bob

[zxrayz]

ok now I see, Terminal Roads will Not be used for routing UNLESS the starting or ending point is on the Terminal Roads.

Terminal road: A terminal road is typically an access road to a point of interest. It is often used for very small roads inside a neighborhood or the roads inside shopping centers and public promenades. Driving directions will route you onto a terminal road if your starting point or destination is located on it or another adjoining terminal road.

So if the end point (house, store, ect..) is on the Terminal Road it will be routed to. But if your driveway (terminal road) connects between to local roads it will not be used for routing, thus sending directions cross your property. Same for parking lots, you will be directed to the store, mall, etc... if it is the end point on the terminal road, but you will not be routed through the parking lot to another road.

Makes sense.

[James Mueller]

I've been editing our area in our small town in Iowa, and I'm seeing
tons of these Terminal Roads. Some which are only 50-100 feet long,
and have only one house on them. I'm unsure how I feel about them
being on the same level as the sample of terminal roads (http://
www.google.com/support/mapmaker/bin/static.py?page=guide.cs&guide=1094314&topic=1094373&answer=1098056)
I agree with that use. Put if someone lays a concrete U shaped
driveway (or many times gravel) should it be considered a terminal
road at all and even marked on the map.
IE
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=University+Pl,+Lamoni,+Decatur,+Iowa+50140&ll=40.62074,-93.926883&spn=0.003392,0.004823&t=h&z=18
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=University+Pl,+Lamoni,+Decatur,+Iowa+50140&t=h&ll=40.623965,-93.91484&spn=0.003392,0.004823&z=18

I've been cleaning up all of these driveways, and getting responses
about "should be a terminal road".

I'm just wondering is this really the right way for these to be marked
when someone looks at the map. These aren't POI, and the Address ends
at the main road, not the "terminal".

[Pete]

I've been dealing with the same issue. Random drives, sometimes not even accessing houses...only barns, are mapped. I've marked them for deletion, and am currently arguing with an "all-knowing" reviewer in the comments over it. I don't see the point in mapping them. If you only map a few, random driveways it is inconsistent and confusing. Obviously, if you map EVERY driveway, it will be cluttered...and even more confusing. So, the only logical solution(to me) would be to not map any private driveways, unless they access a POI.

[IndianaRed]

Reviewers seem to not want to delete them, but have approved applying the Enclosed Traffic Area segment usage to them. Then they will get rendered with the smallest road size.

They all should be Terminal, regardless of whether there is a U shape.

[James Mueller]

I do agree the reviewers seem loathe to delete them and that's the core issue. It's a matter of importance. A Parking lot for a church is used by a group of people every week, even if it is a small church I can understand the justification for having it marked. Next door is a house with the same length driveway. This is used by one or two individuals daily. I don't think it is as important, and shouldn't be marked. Then there are even less traveled roads, a gravel path to a farm fence, that even the farmer uses twice a month only. It shouldn't be marked as it is of such minimal importance. I'm thinking of this in terms of Wikipedia's method of controlling articles. I don't have an article about me. I feel important, and think I may matter, but I understand in the realm of society I have not played a notable role that would justify a Wikipedia article. I think driveways leading to a single residence/barn/field etc shouldn't be of importance enough for map making. As Pete says, it is inconsistent currently. I've gotten one deleted just to have the next denied. I believe there needs to be a limit to what is drawn. I feel strongly that if it is not a POI or a road leading to multiple different addresses, that it shouldn't me cluttering the maps.

[Cory]

I definitely think we should avoid mapping private driveways until a point when the rest of the map is mature and we get another category to mark them even smaller than parking lots (as in not appear on the map unless specifically requested or part of the destination).

As for the above discussion about routing, I think the main premise is that routing will never go into a terminal road, and then back up to a local road...once you go terminal you must stay terminal until the destination.  As such, pocket neighborhoods (without a thruway) could be mapped entirely as terminal roads (not just the dead-end segments).  That still suggests that a private driveway is not big enough to even be a terminal road.

[CNR Nair]

+

On Jun 21, 2011 8:50 AM, "James Mueller" <james.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I do agree the reviewers seem loathe to delete them and that's the core
> issue. It's a matter of importance. A Parking lot for a church is used by a
> group of people every week, even if it is a small church I can understand
> the justification for having it marked. Next door is a house with the same
> length driveway. This is used by one or two individuals daily. I don't think
> it is as important, and shouldn't be marked. Then there are even less
> traveled roads, a gravel path to a farm fence, that even the farmer uses
> twice a month only. It shouldn't be marked as it is of such minimal
> importance. I'm thinking of this in terms of Wikipedia's method of
> controlling articles. I don't have an article about me. I feel important,
> and think I may matter, but I understand in the realm of society I have not
> played a notable role that would justify a Wikipedia article. I think
> driveways leading to a single residence/barn/field etc shouldn't be of
> importance enough for map making. As Pete says, it is inconsistent
> currently. I've gotten one deleted just to have the next denied. I believe

> there needs to be a limit to what is drawn.* I feel strongly that if it is

> not a POI or a road leading to multiple different addresses, that it

> shouldn't me cluttering the maps.*
>
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[Cory]

Here are two I have issue with:

http://www.google.com/mapmaker?gw=39&fid=0x88f3e783d496a167:0x9b14885148db22e8

http://www.google.com/mapmaker?gw=39&fid=0x88f3e0a67ac5b58b:0x500067c6aa9a9864

One of them comes straight off a main road--the map makes it look like the road keeps going.  The other is a gravel drive that almost goes through a guy's garage and on to his farmland.  They are almost more detrimental to have mapped.