Sub-Locality / Neighborhood

[KaliJay]

I've tried twice now to add a few Sub-Locality / Neighborhood features in my area, but once again I am thwarted by the reviewer named Brent. The first time, he reverted my changes and re-added the feature as a generic boundary, which was just plain wrong. The second time, he asked me to change the feature to a housing development, but then went ahead and made the change himself, reverted the edit, and left me with nothing.

There are at least 30 of these Sub-Locality / Neighborhood features in my 2 area, but all of the existing features are points, not boundaries. GMM won't let me create a Sub-Locality / Neighborhood point. I want to add this feature type to the new neighborhoods created in the last few years, but still haven't managed to succeed.

Can anyone tell me how to proceed? How am I supposed to make the maps consistent if I can't create similar entries for the new sub-divisions?

[CNR Nair]

It would be desirable to ask GMM to  define these terms, so that the reviewer will not object in future

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[Reddy BK]

@KaliJay : We do have something called as 'Locality' which i think fits the situation you are trying to point out here. Is this the same thing you intend to mark, if yes then go ahead and mark them under 'locality' else, my bad. My wrong perception!

In any case, re-mark the said features with a strong comment as a reason for the changes being made and lets hope it gets on to the maps as desired.

Thanks,

~Reddy.

[I MAP]

if a comments is added along with edit , usually Reviewers take a +ve action

[IndianaRed]

On Friday, July 15, 2011 2:12:36 PM UTC-4, CNR wrote:

It would be desirable to ask GMM to  define these terms, so that the reviewer will not object in future

Exactly. There are hundreds of subdivisions in my area marked as "Sub-Locality / Neighborhood", but now I'm asked to use Housing Development instead when I create a new one?

What's the difference? When should I use each?

Do they have the same visibility on the map? I liked being able to see the names of the larger ones even when zoomed out.

[I MAP]

Ideally , a Housing development will cover a set of buildings usually in a gated community whereas a Sub locality will be larger in comparision and can have more than 2 or for that matter 6...etc Housing developments within. The importance of Sub locality comes because its a part of the location info n will pop up for every feature marked within that which doesnt happen for HD. Hope this helps !

I MAP

[IndianaRed]

I guess I can understand that, although most of our communities are not gated, they do have an entrance sign and usually a HOA.

So the hundreds of local neighborhoods near me need to be converted to Housing Developments? That's going to be hard when you hit "Feature cannot be changed to this category from the current one". 

[Mara W]

Wow!  You can actually add localities and sub-localities?  Here they're either grayed out (locality always is) or I get one choice, depending on where I'm editing, Waverly or Benedict Court (part of Benedict College).  This is even when I furnish websites.  Since they're put up by the neighborhoods or merchants associations, they're all' third party" and they''re denied.

[IndianaRed]

I can create "Sub-Locality / Neighborhood" features, but not Locality features.

[Mara W]

*I Map and Reddy, 

   Can you explain Locality and how it differs from Sub-locality exactly?  I think I've got sub-locality down pretty well because people here feel very strongly about them and I'm not about to step on anybody's toes. It's mostly neighborhoods that are  75-200 years old. And why is locality always grayed out for us?

IndianaRed,

   I suspect you're the first one to add sub-locality in you're area.  Mostly you can spot a sub-locality because they have a website and talk a lot about their history and how cool they are.  Don't mix them up with Neighborhood Associations (a legal entity),  At least that's been my experience.

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 2:13 AM, General Map Maker on behalf of IndianaRed <google-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I can create "Sub-Locality / Neighborhood" features, but not Locality features.

-- 

[Chaitanya Sri]

Hi KaliJay & Others,


These are the definitions for the terms you mentioned. Please check them for your perusal.

Sub-Locality/Neighborhood: A sub-locality or neighborhood is a smaller section of a city, such as a housing colony or development that has its own official or local name.
As IMap rightly pointed it out, a collection of housing developments can be termed as "Sub-Locality / Neighbourhood". Thanks IMap :-)

Locality: A locality is a fairly large portion of a city that has an official name.

For example, a locality can consist of several housing colonies/developments. Cities in some parts of the world may not have official localities.

Again, these terminologies may vary as per the region (how large a city is etc) & its population. Hence the above example is given.

More information on the same in this help link :- http://www.google.com/support/mapmaker/bin/static.py?page=guide.cs&guide=1094315&topic=1094988

For the concern you mentioned, it would be great if you could provide us with the link of the feature where the reviewer edited the feature by himself so that we can analyze the issue & give the necessary feedback to the reviewer if needed.

As always, appreciate your passion :-)
 

[Cory]

I think this is going to cause some issues because naming conventions and status is dependent on the city/county/state's definitions and management.

Previously, sub-divisions were mentioned as Sub-locality/Neighborhoods.  This seemed to fit with the local (Middle GA) definitions and how the county marks/tracks them in the plat map/books.  Basically, a developer takes a large chunk of land and subdivides it into small plats where homes will be built.  They have to (or at least always do) register a name for the development.

It sounds as if the Housing Development label is new, or new guidance has been sent out to the reviewers, as many of these areas have received the sub-locality label here in the past.

In this area, I don't believe there are any historic sub-localities that would predate the county tracking them, and therefore sub-localities and housing developments are recorded the same way.

[IndianaRed]

On Tuesday, July 19, 2011 3:23:48 AM UTC-4, Mara W wrote:

IndianaRed,

   I suspect you're the first one to add sub-locality in you're area.  Mostly you can spot a sub-locality because they have a website and talk a lot about their history and how cool they are.  Don't mix them up with Neighborhood Associations (a legal entity),  At least that's been my experience.

I have added a few, but the majority existed as point features from before the US opened up. It was only since Housing Development was added that I got the message to use that instead.

I don't mind the change in policy, except for the fact that I can't change existing features from one to the other...

[KaliJay]

We're dealing with the exact same issue here. I'll do it however it's supposed to be done...but figuring that out is tough!

Does anyone have an example of an approved Housing Development boundary I can look at (one visible in GM)? I don't see any within a few hundred miles of where I'm mapping and would like to know how they render. I don't want the plot lines obscured in the area (sub-locality doesn't obscure).

Hopefully we can get an official response from Google and finish mapping these neighborhood, sub-localities, or housing developments!

[IndianaRed]

On Tuesday, July 19, 2011 5:44:08 AM UTC-4, Chaitanya Sri wrote:

Sub-Locality/Neighborhood: A sub-locality or neighborhood is a smaller section of a city, such as a housing colony or development that has its own official or local name.

Sounds like a single housing development to me.

 

As IMap rightly pointed it out, a collection of housing developments can be termed as "Sub-Locality / Neighbourhood". Thanks IMap :-)

Perhaps, but you might want to make it clearer in the help text.

[IndianaRed]

Here's the only Housing Development I have created, and having checked GM, I see that it is totally blocking out the plot lines.

Is this the intended/desired behavior?

[KaliJay]

Link not working for me...

If it covers the plot lines, forget it. I don't want it. I'd prefer to just create a point feature instead. After all, the main point is to make the neighborhoods searchable on Google Maps (for me anyway). Having a boundary would be nice, but not at the price of obscuring other details (plot lines, et al).

[Saikrishna Arcot]

The correct link is this.

[KaliJay]

Yep. Just like a generic boundary. I don't like it. I really like seeing the plot lines...one of the coolest features on Google Maps IMO.

I'll either go with point features or try to get the powers-that-be to allow me to create sub-localities like the other 60 neighborhoods in town. :-/

[Mara W]

How about Madison, Georgia?  Last time I was there historic sights was their big tourist industry  

Also I can't find my great-grandfathers plot on the old section of the cemetery there or even that part of the cemetery  There used to be a gate behind my great uncle's house right by it.  Since my brother plans on using it he won't be happy.

                                                                                                              Mara

[CNR Nair]

How the site was got edited.

[IndianaRed]

I've made a request via "Submit Feedback". I really wish there was some way to check on the status of our reports. You know, like some kind of Issue Tracker :P

In the mean time, I guess we are stuck with HD point features. And now I have to work out what to do with a sub-locality that is much larger than it should be. Probably have to delete it and add a HD point.

[Abhishek]

Hi All,

We will get the Help article updated as soon as possible. Hopefully, the following definitions will help with some clarity for now:

A housing development is an area of homes clustered together, usually built by a single land developer. In most cases, the entire housing development will have very similar architectural qualities, and tend to have been constructed within a short time period of each other. Housing developments are usually smaller than neighborhoods, and tend to be found in areas outside the urban core of cities.

A neighborhood is a local community within the larger political divisions of city/town/village or suburb. A neighborhood is an established area (i.e. not newly constructed) where residents often have a great deal of interaction, and will recognize each other by sight. They often have home-owners associations, neighborhood watches, block parties, etc. Neighborhoods are more common in urban areas, and most urban areas are a patchwork of inter-connected and overlapping neighborhoods.

@Cory-The category of Housing Development was available earlier; was removed at one point & has been restored recently.

Regards,
Abhishek 

[IndianaRed]

Abhishek

At least in our area, those two definitions amount to the same thing. Home-owners associations, neighborhood watches, block parties usually are arranged for a single housing development. I tend to know a lot of the people in my housing development, which has these groups, but no-one from the next housing development which has their own setup.

There are occasions where a single developer built a group of separate, but linked, housing developments, and they may have a setup which covers all of them, but this is not always the case.

G Reviewers are shooting me down for creating single HD neighborhoods, but that is what they are.

[Abhishek]

Hi IndianaRed,

Thank you for your detailed response. Of course, there are tricky cases such as yours :-)

It would be great if you could post back with a set of links in question, so that we can go over them and decide.

Regards,
Abhishek 

[IndianaRed]

Here is a small subset of the neighborhoods in my area. One of which is mine.

Single Housing Development Neighborhoods

Chesapeake Website GMM Feature

Cumberland Woods Website GMM Feature

Eagle Pines Website GMM Feature

Echo Pointe Website GMM Feature

Spyglass Falls Website GMM Feature

Multiple Housing Development Neighborhoods

Geist Harbours Property Owners Association Website

Admirals Bay of Geist Harbours

Admirals Pointe of Geist Harbours

Admirals Sound of Geist Harbours

Admirals Woods of Geist Harbours GMM Feature

Beam Reach of Geist Harbours

Crossing South of Geist Harbours GMM Feature

Diamond Pointe of Geist Harbours GMM Feature

Feather Cove I of Geist Harbours GMM Feature

Feather Cove II of Geist Harbours GMM Feature

Feather Cove III of Geist Harbours GMM Feature

Masthead of Geist Harbours GMM Feature

The Legends of Geist Website

Haig Point GMM Feature

Quaker Ridge at the Legends of Geist GMM Feature

Sawgrass GMM Feature

Spyglass Hill at the Legends of Geist GMM Feature

[mara]

Hi Abhishek,
  I understand your distinctions between Housing Development, and Sub-locality, although I think that Built Up Area is over-used and asking for trouble when used by the naive editor
  Could you make a further distinction between Sub-locality and Locality?  I've begun adding the long established residential areas in my city recently.  I'd like to do the same for commercial/shopping areas but that's a different topic.
   I added five of the oldest (houses built from the 1850's to the last one's pre-World War Two)  At least one and perhaps more could possibly be Localities because of their diversity and the time frame of their development. Perhaps part of the confusion could be the translation of the term political since this brings up issues of tax base, school district, and voting area.
  Brent (oddly enough) approved three but the others are still pending.
  Shandon is the one most likely to fit into the category of locality since it encompasses a number of cohesive neighborhoods: http://www.google.com/mapmaker?gw=55&hl=en&ll=33.995643,-81.006446&spn=0.009197,0.019956&z=16&vpid=1311970538375&t=h&iwloc=2_0&editids=zP9LxAc4fy23DlYWBL   . 
Or in combination with Old Shandon (They're very touchy about differentiating themselves):  http://www.google.com/mapmaker?gw=55&hl=en&ll=34.002581,-81.006982&spn=0.009197,0.019956&z=16&vpid=1311970811807&t=h&iwloc=2_0&editids=zP9LxAcvSHnT_zagTm:
 Arsenal Hill seems clear except for it's unique location and make-up:  http://www.google.com/mapmaker?gw=10&hl=en&ll=34.008558,-81.040285&spn=0.009196,0.019956&z=16&vpid=1311971031749&t=h
   But the same is true of University Hill:  http://www.google.com/mapmaker?gw=55&hl=en&ll=33.99929,-81.022625&spn=0.009197,0.019956&z=16&vpid=1311971031749&t=h&iwloc=2_0&editids=zP9LxAcARuwLLlM2R3
   Wales Gardens does fit sub-locality (I think and I don't know why it's had such a problem):  http://www.google.com/mapmaker?gw=55&hl=en&ll=33.994167,-81.015244&spn=0.009198,0.019956&z=16&vpid=1311971871315&t=h&iwloc=2_0&editids=zP9LxAcLSvWNn1TZpg
  Four of the five are adjacent but not necessarily similar.

                                                                 Thank you,
                                                                     Mara
 

[Abhishek]

Hi IndianaRed,

Thank you for getting back with the links. If the area is being managed by a single Housing authority and the access within it is restricted, like that of a gated community,
it's better to mark it under Housing development.
If access to the area is not restricted for people and looks big enough, it can be marked under Sub locality.

@Mara- Locality will be larger than that of Sub locality and Housing Development and its possible for a Locality to have a few housing developments or sub localities within it. Having said that, it will be lesser than that of a City in terms of the area occupied.

Shandon looks good to be a Locality.
Old Shandon, Arsenal Hill, University Hill and Wales Garden look like Sub localities.

Regards,
Abhishek 

[mara]

Thanks Abhishek,
   That's reassuring. That was what I thought.  Unfortunately, locality is locked here so for now they're all sub-localities even when they overlap One locality (Eau Claire) got through (not my edit) but I do know that it's correct.

                                               And thanks for coming back to the thread.  That doesn't happen very often,
                                                                                          Mara

[IndianaRed]

Thanks Abhishek.

Of the ones I posted, only Diamond Pointe is a gated community. In fact there are possibly 2-3 gated communities among the hundreds of neighborhoods in this area.

So, can I direct G Reviewers to this thread when I'm creating Sub-Localities? Will you inform them on your side that single housing development neighborhoods can also be sub-localities?

[mara]

I'm sorry Abhishek,
   I apparently misunderstood you Can you clarify the following process.
   I understand that sub-locality may have several 'housing developments'  What I did not understand ,but have now been told. is that even a very large 'housing development' cannot be shown on Mapmaker to extend into two adjacent sub-localities even if this is in reality a true representation.
   I now have two of the dread, frozen "Denied-try Again"'s on the same sub-locality Olympia-Granby because I was not quick enough in changing one border that was now part of the county border in a river.  I did not see the comment until after the denial or else while I was redoing the border this afternoon.  I would be glad to revert the whole edit if I could but since my revised edit is published apparently I can do nothing other than generat more duplicate edits..
   I have two more drafts of sub-localities and have gathered the information for three more.  Should I delete my drafts and leave the others to wiser,if not older, heads than mine?

                                                                             Thank you for your patience,
                                                                                              Mara

[Abhishek]

Hi Mara and IndianaRed,

You are both very welcome :)

@IndianaRed- If you come across a Review which is not in accordance with what we have advised, please feel free to use this thread.

@Mara - We are here to help! 

Ideally, a Housing development should not be marked under two separate Sub localities.
Since you are saying that, it's a true representation, it would be great if you could give us the concerned link so that we can discuss about it.

Save the drafts, if you feel that your edit is a valid one and update your comments, so that our Reviewers are in a better position to review your edits.

Keep up the great work!


Regards,
Abhishek 

[IndianaRed]

Abhishek, how about this neighborhood review?

http://goo.gl/k8VBK

Do we need a definition on "large enough"? Why should smaller neighborhoods be excluded? They have the same neighborhood watches and associations as others.

I'm sorry that the area is not a historic town. We don't have centuries old neighborhoods. This is a relatively newish suburban area, with modern neighborhoods. Again, I don't see that as a reason to exclude our communities from the neighborhood category.

My main issue with the "housing development" category is that it does not render well on the map. It creates an ugly grey block that makes the area look commercial and covers plot lines, and the name is not visible until you zoom in very close. Sub-localities don't change the background and render nicely at normal zoom levels, depending on size. Even on navigator it shows up as I'm passing by and in reality I see the big entrance sign. I have to say that the map looks lifeless without neighborhood names showing up, and lively when they do.

[Abhishek]

Hi IndianaRed,

According to your comments, it seems that this is a Housing Development and you are trying to mark it under "Sub Locality" in order to have a better display.
I do understand your concern but at the same time, marking a feature under the exact category would be the best resolution.
Your suggestions for a different rendering for "Housing Development" are welcome on "Submit Feedback" :-)

Regards,
Abhishek 

[IndianaRed]

According to your descriptions of "Sub-Locality / Neighborhood", this Housing Development qualifies for it (neighborhood watch, homeowner's association, neighborhood block parties, neighborhood garage sales, familiarity among neighbors, etc), as I was trying to explain in my earlier messages, and you appeared to agree with me.

In the interests of peace, I changed it to a single point Housing Development, and I'm surprised to say that it appears to be rendering a whole lot better than with a boundary. The only issue here is that there is no way to specify size. I used "Submit Feedback" on the boundary issue several weeks ago.

[IndianaRed]

On Wednesday, August 17, 2011 12:35:45 PM UTC-4, IndianaRed wrote:

In the interests of peace, I changed it to a single point Housing Development, and I'm surprised to say that it appears to be rendering a whole lot better than with a boundary. The only issue here is that there is no way to specify size. I used "Submit Feedback" on the boundary issue several weeks ago.

Unfortunately, I spoke too soon on the rendering. A while after making the edit, it reverted to a small label only visible at close zooms and easily missable. It has stayed that way after publishing.

[khk...@gmail.com]

Thanks your comments
ỵahoo: heocon.16483
call: 0984303500

2011/8/20 General Map Maker on behalf of IndianaRed <google-...@googlegroups.com>

On Wednesday, August 17, 2011 12:35:45 PM UTC-4, IndianaRed wrote:

In the interests of peace, I changed it to a single point Housing Development, and I'm surprised to say that it appears to be rendering a whole lot better than with a boundary. The only issue here is that there is no way to specify size. I used "Submit Feedback" on the boundary issue several weeks ago.

Unfortunately, I spoke too soon on the rendering. A while after making the edit, it reverted to a small label only visible at close zooms and easily missable. It has stayed that way after publishing.

--

[Abhishek]

Hi IndianaRed,

I'd recommend marking "Housing Development" using a polygon instead of a point (as you know its extent :)
This example renders and is visible even at a height of 2000 Ft.
However, if a particular edit does not, do let us know so that we can work on it.

Regards,
Abhishek 

[IndianaRed]

Now take a look at it on Maps. http://goo.gl/B87uQ

Where are the plot lines?

Also, I wish you guys would lose the boundary square marker. Is it really necessary? It pushes the actual name off to the side instead of centering it.

[I MAP]

We can still see a different rendering on Maps

[IndianaRed]

Maybe this is just a Maps rendering issue? If I look on Mobile Maps, plot lines appear above the Housing Development boundary, but then again they also appear above satellite imagery.

The other question would be whether the color is correct. The current color is the same as a generic boundary, used for commercial and other purposes. There is a lighter grey color for urban areas, and lighter again for rural areas.

[I MAP]

I looked at the feature on maps and no difference appeared in mapmaker and maps. Looks good enough.

Not in a position to check it on Mobile :(