How do I remove bicycle routes?

[Phil Kulak]

There are some bicycle routes that need to be removed. The problem is that if I set bicycle suitability to "---", it just says that no changes have been made. The problem is that these roads are just fine for cycling on (they are not to be avoided, per say), but they are not part of the neighborhood greenway and shouldn't be labeled as a bike route. What can I do about this?

[Andrew Sawyer]

Can you provide a link for one of the bike routes in question?

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From: General Map Maker on behalf of Phil Kulak <google-mapmaker+noreply-APn2wQdq...@googlegroups.com>

Sender: General Map Maker on behalf of Phil Kulak <google-...@googlegroups.com>

Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 16:18:05 -0700 (PDT)

To: <google-...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: General Map Maker on behalf of Phil Kulak <google-...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: How do I remove bicycle routes?

There are some bicycle routes that need to be removed. The problem is that if I set bicycle suitability to "---", it just says that no changes have been made. The problem is that these roads are just fine for cycling on (they are not to be avoided, per say), but they are not part of the neighborhood greenway and shouldn't be labeled as a bike route. What can I do about this?

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[Phil Kulak]

Sure, here are the two segments. I've already added the routes where
they should be, but these I can't get rid of:

http://goo.gl/maps/nqujc
http://goo.gl/maps/tXi6R

Thanks for your help!

[Flash]

Preferred is not defined by the city or other government body designating a street as the main bike routes, but rather if you check the definition it is an appropriate designation if local bicyclists prefer it.  It gives it a nudge over nearby roads.

That's not to say that government designations don't help, as they usually indicate that they are doing things to the road to make them better routes, such as bike lanes.  But there's nothing to stop you from marking more roads than the city designated ones.

I say this because you specifically state that you are using the neighbourhood greenway designations to determine what should be bike routes.  All roads are bike routes, unless bicycling is prohibited.  Preferred routes are ones that are better than others.  Is there a specific reason why bikes shouldn't use this road?  Where does it fall in objective ranking, ignoring the government designations... just like most roads or a bit better than the average?

[Phil Kulak]

You are right that all roads are bike routes (bicycles are allowed on all city streets in Oregon except freeways), but the value in Maps' bicycle routing in Portland is that it will prefer official Greenways. These routes have many benefits over adjacent (though still perfectly rideable) alternatives. They have sharrows, no stop signs in the cycling direction, speed bumps, car barriers, and soon, reduced speed limits. They really should, literally, be preferred when planning a route, just to make the ride more enjoyable.

So, in answer to your question, the only reason someone should not use this route is because there is a better one one block over. However, that certainly does not mean the road should be actively avoided, since it is still perfectly fine to cycle on. I just want to take it back to the default state.

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[Flash]

I was looking through Street View.. you have a weird situation there.  Normally I would say leave this, as someone has made the judgment that it is a good road to ride on; and then add more info to the other road to make it even more preferred.  But looking at the other road, I've never seen a road that has so much accommodate bicyclists and yet does not qualify for something like a "On road bicycle lane" designation.  I"m unsure if "Allowed, no bicycle lane" being placed on the other route would elevate it above an "Unknown" route when they are both marked Preferred.

This is a rare case where I'd support the removal.  The trick is... use the line tool, not the segment tool.  I did the first segment for you.

That said, I'm not saying I'm supporting that the end results should match the greenway map.  I'm sure there are some routes out there that cyclists use because they are great routes, shortcuts, etc. that are not on the greenway map.  Please consider each change careful, and respect the designations that other mappers have chosen to put on the roads when it involves a judgement call.

[Phil Kulak]

Ah, there we go, thank you!

Yeah, I agree. Ideally there would be some new designation for roads
like this. I (and most people I know) actually prefer these greenways
to busier roads that have a bike lane:

http://vimeo.com/16552771

Thanks for all the help!

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:11 PM, General Map Maker on behalf of Flash
<google-mapmaker+noreply-APn2wQcd...@googlegroups.com>
wrote:

[Eric Piehl]

Interesting.  I have a different, but similar, situation   When I ask Google maps for bicycle directions to something on the other side of the freeway  it always has me cross the freeway on Cascade Road instead of Fulton Street.  After riding both, they are both bad (I am lobbying my local DOT to get pedestrian/bicycle bridge, but not while economy stays bad), but Cascade is *much worse* http://goo.gl/E67cw :

  Cascade has *much* more traffic, *hugely more cross-traffic*, *no* shoulders (mostly), and (for a round-trip) 8 off-ramps and on-ramps to cross.

  Fulton has faster traffic (but nothing crossing at speed except for 1 off-ramp), has 7' shoulders (mostly), and only 2 off-ramps and on-ramps to cross.

Both are currently marked "Bicycle suitability" = "---".  For some time, I have considered marking Cascade as "Bicycle suitability" = "Avoid", but am not sure of that's effect.  Is there a sandbox I can try it out in?  Or is this the exact situation to apply "Bicycle suitability" = "Avoid"?

[Flash]

Throw avoid on that one; you're not saying not allowed, but you're saying take a different route; which is perfect in this case.