The option to open dev tools in a new window is awfully hidden

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Tony Henrich

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Apr 20, 2015, 12:43:51 AM4/20/15
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I had to Google (AGAIN!.. after a memory lapse) to figure out how to open the dev tools in a new Window. I kept clicking on the dock icon which only docked the window either at the bottom or to the right.

Came across this stackoverflow.com question and, lo and behold, a ton of people are complaining about a feature which is horribly undiscoverable. Why? God knows.  You would think hovering on the icon will reveal a useful tip or clicking on the bottom right edge, a la Photoshop, would show more options... but NO!

So I am complaining here in case the Chrome engineers didn't get a memo about this bad UI design.

PhistucK

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Apr 20, 2015, 2:40:18 AM4/20/15
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For reference, Tony was referring to this StackOverflow question (the link got messed up) -
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/23668827/how-to-open-the-chrome-developer-tools-in-a-new-window

I think something was done to improve it recently, so you can try the canary. I might be mistaken.
If not, you can file an issue ar crbug.com (if you cannot find an existing one already) with concrete suggestions for how to improve it.


☆PhistucK

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Tony Henrich

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Apr 20, 2015, 12:22:54 PM4/20/15
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It's the same in Canary. Long left mouse press is used for dragging. I have never seen this mouse action used to show a hidden action. BTW, there was an icon to expand to a new window. Not sure why it went out.


On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 11:40:18 PM UTC-7, PhistucK wrote:
For reference, Tony was referring to this StackOverflow question (the link got messed up) -

I think something was done to improve it recently, so you can try the canary. I might be mistaken.
If not, you can file an issue ar crbug.com (if you cannot find an existing one already) with concrete suggestions for how to improve it.


☆PhistucK

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Tony Henrich <thenri...@gmail.com> wrote:
I had to Google (AGAIN!.. after a memory lapse) to figure out how to open the dev tools in a new Window. I kept clicking on the dock icon which only docked the window either at the bottom or to the right.

Came across this stackoverflow.com question and, lo and behold, a ton of people are complaining about a feature which is horribly undiscoverable. Why? God knows.  You would think hovering on the icon will reveal a useful tip or clicking on the bottom right edge, a la Photoshop, would show more options... but NO!

So I am complaining here in case the Chrome engineers didn't get a memo about this bad UI design.

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Jonathan Garbee

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Apr 20, 2015, 12:57:46 PM4/20/15
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The button was refactored a bit when we prioritized dock to right mode. It was decided that with right now being default, bottom should be the default action of the position change button. Putting undock (a lesser-used mode for most developers) tucked away as the secondary action.

Yes, this UX is very hard to discover, as it always has been, we need to figure that out. However, currently we haven't seen a good alternative UX that doesn't use more space (since space in that area is limited.) If you can come up with something, please let us know.

The original issue report for reference: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=408242

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Tony Henrich <thenri...@gmail.com> wrote:

It's the same in Canary. Long left mouse press is used for dragging. I have never seen this mouse action used to show a hidden action. BTW, there was an icon to expand to a new window. Not sure why it went out.

On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 11:40:18 PM UTC-7, PhistucK wrote:
For reference, Tony was referring to this StackOverflow question (the link got messed up) -

I think something was done to improve it recently, so you can try the canary. I might be mistaken.
If not, you can file an issue ar crbug.com (if you cannot find an existing one already) with concrete suggestions for how to improve it.


☆PhistucK

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Tony Henrich <thenri...@gmail.com> wrote:
I had to Google (AGAIN!.. after a memory lapse) to figure out how to open the dev tools in a new Window. I kept clicking on the dock icon which only docked the window either at the bottom or to the right.

Came across this stackoverflow.com question and, lo and behold, a ton of people are complaining about a feature which is horribly undiscoverable. Why? God knows.  You would think hovering on the icon will reveal a useful tip or clicking on the bottom right edge, a la Photoshop, would show more options... but NO!

So I am complaining here in case the Chrome engineers didn't get a memo about this bad UI design.

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Jonathan Garbee

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Apr 20, 2015, 1:04:53 PM4/20/15
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Also, I just opened this issue: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=478782 to help get something actionable here to help make the mode switcher more discover-able.

Tony Henrich

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Apr 20, 2015, 1:06:39 PM4/20/15
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Multipurpose the current icon. There's already the small arrow in the bottom right corner of the icon. It resembles the one one sees in Photoshop buttons in the toolbar which indicates there are more options within the button. The user knows to click (or right click.. can't remember anymore) in that corner and a little menu shows up with more related options. This is a lot more discoverable than a long mouse press. There's nothing on the button that visually hints a long mouse press will do anything. This is not even a common UI standard in other apps.  



On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 9:57:46 AM UTC-7, Jonathan Garbee wrote:
The button was refactored a bit when we prioritized dock to right mode. It was decided that with right now being default, bottom should be the default action of the position change button. Putting undock (a lesser-used mode for most developers) tucked away as the secondary action.

Yes, this UX is very hard to discover, as it always has been, we need to figure that out. However, currently we haven't seen a good alternative UX that doesn't use more space (since space in that area is limited.) If you can come up with something, please let us know.

The original issue report for reference: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=408242
On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Tony Henrich <thenri...@gmail.com> wrote:

It's the same in Canary. Long left mouse press is used for dragging. I have never seen this mouse action used to show a hidden action. BTW, there was an icon to expand to a new window. Not sure why it went out.

On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 11:40:18 PM UTC-7, PhistucK wrote:
For reference, Tony was referring to this StackOverflow question (the link got messed up) -

I think something was done to improve it recently, so you can try the canary. I might be mistaken.
If not, you can file an issue ar crbug.com (if you cannot find an existing one already) with concrete suggestions for how to improve it.


☆PhistucK

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Tony Henrich <thenri...@gmail.com> wrote:
I had to Google (AGAIN!.. after a memory lapse) to figure out how to open the dev tools in a new Window. I kept clicking on the dock icon which only docked the window either at the bottom or to the right.

Came across this stackoverflow.com question and, lo and behold, a ton of people are complaining about a feature which is horribly undiscoverable. Why? God knows.  You would think hovering on the icon will reveal a useful tip or clicking on the bottom right edge, a la Photoshop, would show more options... but NO!

So I am complaining here in case the Chrome engineers didn't get a memo about this bad UI design.

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Jonathan Garbee

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Apr 20, 2015, 1:12:24 PM4/20/15
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> Multipurpose the current icon.

I assume this just means "Make it a dropdown". This kind of change would probably cause more complaining from people since to do what they want now would take two clicks when it used to be one.  We should focus on making this action more discover-able. We can detect user behavior and then show guidance hints to get them where they need to be, that sounds like a more solid plan to me.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 1:06 PM, Tony Henrich <thenri...@gmail.com> wrote:

Multipurpose the current icon. There's already the small arrow in the bottom right corner of the icon. It resembles the one one sees in Photoshop buttons in the toolbar which indicates there are more options within the button. The user knows to click (or right click.. can't remember anymore) in that corner and a little menu shows up with more related options. This is a lot more discoverable than a long mouse press. There's nothing on the button that visually hints a long mouse press will do anything. This is not even a common UI standard in other apps.  



On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 9:57:46 AM UTC-7, Jonathan Garbee wrote:
The button was refactored a bit when we prioritized dock to right mode. It was decided that with right now being default, bottom should be the default action of the position change button. Putting undock (a lesser-used mode for most developers) tucked away as the secondary action.

Yes, this UX is very hard to discover, as it always has been, we need to figure that out. However, currently we haven't seen a good alternative UX that doesn't use more space (since space in that area is limited.) If you can come up with something, please let us know.

The original issue report for reference: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=408242
On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Tony Henrich <thenri...@gmail.com> wrote:

It's the same in Canary. Long left mouse press is used for dragging. I have never seen this mouse action used to show a hidden action. BTW, there was an icon to expand to a new window. Not sure why it went out.

On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 11:40:18 PM UTC-7, PhistucK wrote:
For reference, Tony was referring to this StackOverflow question (the link got messed up) -

I think something was done to improve it recently, so you can try the canary. I might be mistaken.
If not, you can file an issue ar crbug.com (if you cannot find an existing one already) with concrete suggestions for how to improve it.


☆PhistucK

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Tony Henrich <thenri...@gmail.com> wrote:
I had to Google (AGAIN!.. after a memory lapse) to figure out how to open the dev tools in a new Window. I kept clicking on the dock icon which only docked the window either at the bottom or to the right.

Came across this stackoverflow.com question and, lo and behold, a ton of people are complaining about a feature which is horribly undiscoverable. Why? God knows.  You would think hovering on the icon will reveal a useful tip or clicking on the bottom right edge, a la Photoshop, would show more options... but NO!

So I am complaining here in case the Chrome engineers didn't get a memo about this bad UI design.

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Tony Henrich

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Apr 20, 2015, 3:17:04 PM4/20/15
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What's the problem with adding another icon like Firefox's "Show in a separate Windows" icon? There's a lot of empty room in the toolbar


On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 10:12:24 AM UTC-7, Jonathan Garbee wrote:
> Multipurpose the current icon.

I assume this just means "Make it a dropdown". This kind of change would probably cause more complaining from people since to do what they want now would take two clicks when it used to be one.  We should focus on making this action more discover-able. We can detect user behavior and then show guidance hints to get them where they need to be, that sounds like a more solid plan to me.
On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 1:06 PM, Tony Henrich <thenri...@gmail.com> wrote:

Multipurpose the current icon. There's already the small arrow in the bottom right corner of the icon. It resembles the one one sees in Photoshop buttons in the toolbar which indicates there are more options within the button. The user knows to click (or right click.. can't remember anymore) in that corner and a little menu shows up with more related options. This is a lot more discoverable than a long mouse press. There's nothing on the button that visually hints a long mouse press will do anything. This is not even a common UI standard in other apps.  



On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 9:57:46 AM UTC-7, Jonathan Garbee wrote:
The button was refactored a bit when we prioritized dock to right mode. It was decided that with right now being default, bottom should be the default action of the position change button. Putting undock (a lesser-used mode for most developers) tucked away as the secondary action.

Yes, this UX is very hard to discover, as it always has been, we need to figure that out. However, currently we haven't seen a good alternative UX that doesn't use more space (since space in that area is limited.) If you can come up with something, please let us know.

The original issue report for reference: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=408242
On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Tony Henrich <thenri...@gmail.com> wrote:

It's the same in Canary. Long left mouse press is used for dragging. I have never seen this mouse action used to show a hidden action. BTW, there was an icon to expand to a new window. Not sure why it went out.

On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 11:40:18 PM UTC-7, PhistucK wrote:
For reference, Tony was referring to this StackOverflow question (the link got messed up) -

I think something was done to improve it recently, so you can try the canary. I might be mistaken.
If not, you can file an issue ar crbug.com (if you cannot find an existing one already) with concrete suggestions for how to improve it.


☆PhistucK

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Tony Henrich <thenri...@gmail.com> wrote:
I had to Google (AGAIN!.. after a memory lapse) to figure out how to open the dev tools in a new Window. I kept clicking on the dock icon which only docked the window either at the bottom or to the right.

Came across this stackoverflow.com question and, lo and behold, a ton of people are complaining about a feature which is horribly undiscoverable. Why? God knows.  You would think hovering on the icon will reveal a useful tip or clicking on the bottom right edge, a la Photoshop, would show more options... but NO!

So I am complaining here in case the Chrome engineers didn't get a memo about this bad UI design.

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Paul Irish

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Apr 20, 2015, 3:25:40 PM4/20/15
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We're already experimenting with redesigning the toolbar. Handling docking better is at the top of the concerns.

You'll see some changes soon.



☆PhistucK

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