Group access to calendars is set, but newly added users to the group have no access

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Yves Mainville

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Feb 11, 2016, 8:29:04 AM2/11/16
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I am surprised this is not a more common complaint / issue... so leads me to believe that perhaps I have something misconfigured?

We are a GAFE domain and have established 80+ resource calendars, and manage access with GAM + Bash scripts.... that end of things is working beautifully.

However, when we add new users to our Google groups (i.e. new teachers that have been hired), and these groups already have access to specific calendars (i.e. resource calendars for tech-carts, or rooms, etc.), the new teachers do not have access to the resource calendar. We have to manually add the teacher to the resource, or remove the group and add the group (which causes unnecessary emails and confusion).

I am guessing that upon granting group access to the calendar, it is a 'one-time' read of the group membership and added to the calendar ACL... and never updated or re-synced... but that is just my conclusion, not hard fact of course.

Thus, any thoughts on correcting this behaviour? I'd like to simply run an 'update' on the group access, but that has not done anything, nor has adding the group again to the calendar ACL (without removing it first, hoping it wold force an update).

Any thoughts / comments would be appreciated.

Brian Gray

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Feb 11, 2016, 2:27:42 PM2/11/16
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On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 7:29:04 AM UTC-6, Yves Mainville wrote:
However, when we add new users to our Google groups (i.e. new teachers that have been hired), and these groups already have access to specific calendars (i.e. resource calendars for tech-carts, or rooms, etc.), the new teachers do not have access to the resource calendar. We have to manually add the teacher to the resource, or remove the group and add the group (which causes unnecessary emails and confusion).

I am guessing that upon granting group access to the calendar, it is a 'one-time' read of the group membership and added to the calendar ACL... and never updated or re-synced... but that is just my conclusion, not hard fact of course.


Your guess about the behavior is half-correct.  Calendar access has two parts - permission (the Access Control List for the calendar) and visibility (the Calendar List for the user).  

In GAM, you use two commands (one for the calendar ACL and one for the Calendar List for users).

When you grant a Google Group permissions on a calendar, which individual accounts have permission to read or edit the calendar is based on the membership of the group at the instant of access.  Adding a user to a group grants that user permission to act on the calendar, and removing a user from a group revokes that user's permission.  This IS NOT a one-time read of the group membership.

However - adding a user to a group that has permissions on a calendar does NOT make that calendar visible to the user on calendars.google.com.  You must add that visibility with a second GAM command.  (This is not a limitation of GAM - it's how group permissions on calendars work.)  This IS a one-time read of the group membership - the calendar is added to the the list of calendars for the users who are members of the group when the command below runs.

You can add that visibility for the individual user:
 
gam user j...@acme.com add calendar wxassssss...@acme.com selected true

Or you can add/re-add visibility for all members of the Google Group:
gam group AllEmp...@acme.com add calendar wxassssss...@acme.com selected true

The separation of access and visibility allows for the use of a google calendar in some other (non-Google) application that reads from or writes to the calendar.  It also allows for the publication of a calendar in some other format (on a Google Sites page, for example) with differing levels of detail depending on which account is logged in when viewing the Sites page.

Sandra Santaguida

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Apr 25, 2017, 3:58:52 PM4/25/17
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I am having this same issue.  I have several staff members that were added to the group after the initial email sharing the group calendar.  These staff can't see the calendar.  I can't find where to add visibility for them as you describe below.   Please advise.

Thanks!

Sandra Santaguida

Yves Mainville

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Apr 25, 2017, 10:41:04 PM4/25/17
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The method were discussing to do this is as follows from the command line:
You can add that visibility for the individual user:
 
gam user j...@acme.com add calendar wxassssss...@acme.com selected true

Or you can add/re-add visibility for all members of the Google Group:
gam group AllEmp...@acme.com add calendar wxassssss...@acme.com selected true
​By the way you ask the question, I get the impression you are trying to do this through the admin interface or with the calendar? I use the commands above each time, works great. You are issuing these commande from the GAM console?​


___________________________________
Yves Mainville
Directeur de la réussite, technopédagogie
Centre de formation Saint-Jean-Marie-Vianney
CSC Providence, http://cscprovidence.ca

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Sandra Santaguida

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Apr 25, 2017, 11:38:58 PM4/25/17
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We are on the platform GAFE.  I didn't set it up -- But I do have access to the admin console.   

On the new employee's calendar page, there is a place to add "other calendars", however when I type in Staff Calendar Events, nothing comes up.

The calendar I want them to be able to see is just titled "Staff Calendar Events".  I created the calendar under my calendars and then shared it with the entire organization.    As I add users to the organization, it seems the calendar should be automatically available, but for the new users, they can't see it unless I send them an individual invite.

I do not see where the "command line" is in either the Admin Console or the Calendar page. 

Once I find the command line, I don't know what email would be used to type in what calendar to be added -- I don't see that anywhere on the sharing page as it is a calendar I created under my user.   

Basically I am trying to figure out if there is a way for the new employees to easily see the calendars that they should have permissions to automatically without me adding them individually to each calendar


Sandra Santaguida
Morning Star Christian School 

On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Yves Mainville <main...@cscprovidence.ca> wrote:
The method were discussing to do this is as follows from the command line:
You can add that visibility for the individual user:
 
gam user j...@acme.com add calendar wxassssssfasdfasdf@acme.com selected true

Or you can add/re-add visibility for all members of the Google Group:
gam group AllEmp...@acme.com add calendar wxassssssfasdfasdf@acme.com selected true
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Sandra Santaguida

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Apr 26, 2017, 12:03:07 AM4/26/17
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Never mind :) I found a work around through a different article!  yeah!

Thanks!

Sandra Santaguida
Morning Star Christian School 

On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Yves Mainville <main...@cscprovidence.ca> wrote:
The method were discussing to do this is as follows from the command line:
You can add that visibility for the individual user:
 
gam user j...@acme.com add calendar wxassssssfasdfasdf@acme.com selected true

Or you can add/re-add visibility for all members of the Google Group:
gam group AllEmp...@acme.com add calendar wxassssssfasdfasdf@acme.com selected true
​By the way you ask the question, I get the impression you are trying to do this through the admin interface or with the calendar? I use the commands above each time, works great. You are issuing these commande from the GAM console?​


___________________________________
Yves Mainville
Directeur de la réussite, technopédagogie
Centre de formation Saint-Jean-Marie-Vianney
CSC Providence, http://cscprovidence.ca

2017-04-25 15:53 GMT-04:00 Sandra Santaguida <sandra.santaguida@mscsbend.org>:
I am having this same issue.  I have several staff members that were added to the group after the initial email sharing the group calendar.  These staff can't see the calendar.  I can't find where to add visibility for them as you describe below.   Please advise.

Thanks!

Sandra Santaguida

On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 11:27:42 AM UTC-8, Brian Gray wrote:


On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 7:29:04 AM UTC-6, Yves Mainville wrote:
However, when we add new users to our Google groups (i.e. new teachers that have been hired), and these groups already have access to specific calendars (i.e. resource calendars for tech-carts, or rooms, etc.), the new teachers do not have access to the resource calendar. We have to manually add the teacher to the resource, or remove the group and add the group (which causes unnecessary emails and confusion).

I am guessing that upon granting group access to the calendar, it is a 'one-time' read of the group membership and added to the calendar ACL... and never updated or re-synced... but that is just my conclusion, not hard fact of course.


Your guess about the behavior is half-correct.  Calendar access has two parts - permission (the Access Control List for the calendar) and visibility (the Calendar List for the user).  

In GAM, you use two commands (one for the calendar ACL and one for the Calendar List for users).

When you grant a Google Group permissions on a calendar, which individual accounts have permission to read or edit the calendar is based on the membership of the group at the instant of access.  Adding a user to a group grants that user permission to act on the calendar, and removing a user from a group revokes that user's permission.  This IS NOT a one-time read of the group membership.

However - adding a user to a group that has permissions on a calendar does NOT make that calendar visible to the user on calendars.google.com.  You must add that visibility with a second GAM command.  (This is not a limitation of GAM - it's how group permissions on calendars work.)  This IS a one-time read of the group membership - the calendar is added to the the list of calendars for the users who are members of the group when the command below runs.

You can add that visibility for the individual user:
 
gam user j...@acme.com add calendar wxassssss...@acme.com selected true

Or you can add/re-add visibility for all members of the Google Group:
gam group AllEmp...@acme.com add calendar wxassssss...@acme.com selected true

The separation of access and visibility allows for the use of a google calendar in some other (non-Google) application that reads from or writes to the calendar.  It also allows for the publication of a calendar in some other format (on a Google Sites page, for example) with differing levels of detail depending on which account is logged in when viewing the Sites page.

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Jefferson Davis

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Aug 14, 2017, 12:48:38 PM8/14/17
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Sandra could you please share what you did?  We have run into this as well.  Group memberships don;t seem to get examined except when the group is initially added.


On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 9:03:07 PM UTC-7, Sandra Santaguida wrote:
Never mind :) I found a work around through a different article!  yeah!

Thanks!

Sandra Santaguida
Morning Star Christian School 

On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Yves Mainville <main...@cscprovidence.ca> wrote:
The method were discussing to do this is as follows from the command line:
You can add that visibility for the individual user:
 
gam user j...@acme.com add calendar wxassssss...@acme.com selected true

Or you can add/re-add visibility for all members of the Google Group:
gam group AllEmp...@acme.com add calendar wxassssss...@acme.com selected true
​By the way you ask the question, I get the impression you are trying to do this through the admin interface or with the calendar? I use the commands above each time, works great. You are issuing these commande from the GAM console?​


___________________________________
Yves Mainville
Directeur de la réussite, technopédagogie
Centre de formation Saint-Jean-Marie-Vianney
CSC Providence, http://cscprovidence.ca

2017-04-25 15:53 GMT-04:00 Sandra Santaguida <sandra.s...@mscsbend.org>:
I am having this same issue.  I have several staff members that were added to the group after the initial email sharing the group calendar.  These staff can't see the calendar.  I can't find where to add visibility for them as you describe below.   Please advise.

Thanks!

Sandra Santaguida

On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 11:27:42 AM UTC-8, Brian Gray wrote:


On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 7:29:04 AM UTC-6, Yves Mainville wrote:
However, when we add new users to our Google groups (i.e. new teachers that have been hired), and these groups already have access to specific calendars (i.e. resource calendars for tech-carts, or rooms, etc.), the new teachers do not have access to the resource calendar. We have to manually add the teacher to the resource, or remove the group and add the group (which causes unnecessary emails and confusion).

I am guessing that upon granting group access to the calendar, it is a 'one-time' read of the group membership and added to the calendar ACL... and never updated or re-synced... but that is just my conclusion, not hard fact of course.


Your guess about the behavior is half-correct.  Calendar access has two parts - permission (the Access Control List for the calendar) and visibility (the Calendar List for the user).  

In GAM, you use two commands (one for the calendar ACL and one for the Calendar List for users).

When you grant a Google Group permissions on a calendar, which individual accounts have permission to read or edit the calendar is based on the membership of the group at the instant of access.  Adding a user to a group grants that user permission to act on the calendar, and removing a user from a group revokes that user's permission.  This IS NOT a one-time read of the group membership.

However - adding a user to a group that has permissions on a calendar does NOT make that calendar visible to the user on calendars.google.com.  You must add that visibility with a second GAM command.  (This is not a limitation of GAM - it's how group permissions on calendars work.)  This IS a one-time read of the group membership - the calendar is added to the the list of calendars for the users who are members of the group when the command below runs.

You can add that visibility for the individual user:
 
gam user j...@acme.com add calendar wxassssss...@acme.com selected true

Or you can add/re-add visibility for all members of the Google Group:
gam group AllEmp...@acme.com add calendar wxassssss...@acme.com selected true

The separation of access and visibility allows for the use of a google calendar in some other (non-Google) application that reads from or writes to the calendar.  It also allows for the publication of a calendar in some other format (on a Google Sites page, for example) with differing levels of detail depending on which account is logged in when viewing the Sites page.

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Yves Mainville

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Aug 14, 2017, 1:29:08 PM8/14/17
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I too am interested in hearing about other methods.

Cheers!

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Jason Maners

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Aug 14, 2017, 3:08:00 PM8/14/17
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One option is to publish a list of the calendars and their calendar IDs. Calendar IDs look an awful lot like an email address and can be found by visiting the calendar settings page.

If the calendar is a resource calendar, then providing instructions for folks to browse Interesting Calendars and finding your company or schools resource calendars is probably the way to go. They can then subscribe to the calendars if they wish. 

If the calendars are sub-calendar of an existing account, I recommend you make a contact group of the calendar IDs and share those with new employees. Then they have the addresses in their contact lists by name and it is easy for them to type them into the Add a calendar box and get them added to their other calendars.
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Jefferson Davis

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Aug 14, 2017, 4:46:30 PM8/14/17
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Perhaps it's just me, but in my mind giving group members access to a resource should be dynamic, ie giving access to the resource to members of that group at the time of attempted access, as opposed to the membership at the time the group was given access.

This is how group permissions have worked for DECADES.  Why this standard would be ignored escapes me.

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Jefferson K Davis,
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Standard School District
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District Users:  Click here to report technology issues
"Proper Prior Planning Promotes Peak Performance"

Ian Crew

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Aug 14, 2017, 4:49:49 PM8/14/17
to 'Jordan Tinsley' via GAM for G Suite
Yeah, Groups should work that way.  The fact that they don’t (especially in Drive) is a longstanding bug.  Grumble.

Ian

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✉ Kevin Melillo

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Aug 15, 2017, 7:54:51 AM8/15/17
to google-ap...@googlegroups.com
If you had a security group, or distribution group with AD and Exchange that gave access to a calendar or public folder, and you added a person to that group, then it would not automatically notify the user of every resource linked to that group.  It would not automatically map calendars, or shared drives...  it would just allow them access, if they knew where to look.

This is the same way groups act now.  The only time an alert is given is when the group is actually linked to the resource.

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Standard School District
1200 North Chester Ave  Bakersfield, CA 93308
Please note our new web site:  http://www.standardschools.net

District Users:  Click here to report technology issues
"Proper Prior Planning Promotes Peak Performance"

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Ian Crew

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Aug 15, 2017, 10:11:25 AM8/15/17
to google-ap...@googlegroups.com
Yeah, not giving an alert for everything makes sense, but (for example) if a new user is added to a Google Group, and a folder has been previously shared with that Group, the folder will not appear anyplace in the new user's Drive UI (not in My Drive, not in Shared with me). They do have access to it, and can manually add it to their My Drive, if they get the correct URL somehow, but the fact that the folder doesn't appear somewhere in their Drive UI is just broken.

Ian

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Jefferson K Davis,
Director, Technology and Information Systems
Standard School District
1200 North Chester Ave  Bakersfield, CA 93308
Please note our new web site:  http://www.standardschools.net

District Users:  Click here to report technology issues
"Proper Prior Planning Promotes Peak Performance"

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Ian Crew

IST-Architecture, Platforms and Integration (API)
Earl Warren Hall, Second Floor
University of California, Berkeley

Sandra Santaguida

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Aug 15, 2017, 3:01:03 PM8/15/17
to google-ap...@googlegroups.com
Yes - I did as described below and made a link reference sheet for new teachers to add the shared calendars to their calendars.    Though they have permissions automatically, it will not allow new members of the group to automatically see it without added the calendar through the link

+KimNilsson

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Aug 21, 2017, 8:21:32 AM8/21/17
to GAM for G Suite
If you search for a shared item in Drive, it does show up, however.
Not so with Calendars.

One major reason for the existence of Team Drives. Or using GAM to push shared resources to users My Drive.
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