Crappiest Product from Google

[Kannaiyan]

I'm a software developer for more than 13 years.
I'm just trying to develop simple spreadsheet update application.
All ends up in unknown errors.

http://1.latest.musugundan.appspot.com/

Any help with these ones?

This is the worst service I felt from google.

When you introduce new craps to market, please make it easier.

/Kans

[David Symonds]

On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 5:44 AM, Kannaiyan <gbpn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm a software developer for more than 13 years.
> I'm just trying to develop simple spreadsheet update application.
> All ends up in unknown errors.
>
> http://1.latest.musugundan.appspot.com/
>
> Any help with these ones?

Check your logs, then come back with a better attitude.

Dave.

[pr3d4t0r]

1. Seniority doesn't give you knowledge or ability by itself. Nobody
cares if you ahve 13 or 130 years doing something if you suck at it.

2. Lack of ability results in frustration, which leads to anger, which
leads to lashing out to things you don't understand; this eventually
results in magical/theistic thinking.

3. Given the number of people using App Engine right now, I'd venture
that you have an acute case of PEBKAC.

If you want help regarding your project, please review this link:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Cheers,

pr3d4t0r
Disclaimer: Neither pr3d4t0r, Eugene Ciurana, nor NikkiWade,
JohnG417, pr3d4k4t, nor any of his other /nicks are associated with
Google or any of its affiliates. No animals were hurt in the
production of this post.

[Kannaiyan]

11-03 09:05AM 00.469
<type 'exceptions.ImportError'>: cannot import name gdata
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/base/data/home/apps/musugundan/1.9/telephonebook.py", line 3,
in <module>
from google.appengine.api import gdata

Hello, you say something is working and even the basic example
supplied by google is not working, then what would I say?

/Kans

[Andrew Badera]

You should say, "Oh yeah, I'm using a beta service, offered for free, with equally beta documentation. I guess I get what I pay for."

Thanks-
- Andy Badera
- and...@badera.us
- (518) 641-1280

- http://higherefficiency.net/
- http://changeroundup.com/

- http://flipbitsnotburgers.blogspot.com/
- http://andrew.badera.us/

- Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=andrew+badera

[Kannaiyan]

pr3d4t0r,

I'm just asking a example which works not just sucks.
Can you point me to an example which works in updating spreadsheet API
supplied by google data api.

I have done all the preliminaries before coming here.

/Kans

> > production of this post.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[David Symonds]

On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 10:21 AM, Kannaiyan <gbpn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 11-03 09:05AM 00.469
> <type 'exceptions.ImportError'>: cannot import name gdata

Do you know Python? It looks like you haven't included gdata. I don't
think it comes with the standard App Engine modules.

http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/usinggdataservices.html

Dave.

[Kannaiyan]

Andy Badera,

I would love to see a competitor for google with quality service, not
just wasting time.

/Kans

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Kannaiyan]

David !!!

Ah. You got the problem.

As I'm using google service, Don't I think that should come by
default.
As a programmer I would think of resuing the code. (Basic Sense).

I thought google would have those modules by default, since those
belongs to googles services.
Thanks for the heads up.

I will leave it for now and do the rest, once it becomes mature, may
visit back.

/Kans

On Nov 3, 9:27 am, "David Symonds" <dsymo...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Andrew Badera]

There are plenty, though I'm not sure anyone else offers Python via Platform-as-a-Service.

There are numerous clouds and grids out there, many still in beta.

Those NOT in beta are also NOT FREE.

You might want to consider checking out Amazon's EC2 offering, though if you're having trouble getting Python to run, you might find EC2 to be too great a challenge ...

--Andy Badera

[cm_gui]

Yes, EC2 is not easy to use too.
It is only recently that they have fixed IPs for instances and
persistent storage in the form of EBS Storage
-- which is itself also not easy to use.
Why can't Amazon make creating/running an instance
as easy as using VMware where the storage is integrated
in the VMware image? Beats me.
And we asked Amazon if we could send our initial data
of about 700GB in a hard drive to them and have them
transfer the data to our Amazon EBS, they said 'No,
the only to upload data is through the network'.

But EC2 has several advantages over GAE.
In EC2, you can install any OS, any applications, any languages, etc.
You can do almost anything.
GAE is very restrictive.

On Nov 3, 9:35 am, "Andrew Badera" <and...@badera.us> wrote:
> There are plenty, though I'm not sure anyone else offers Python via
> Platform-as-a-Service.
>
> There are numerous clouds and grids out there, many still in beta.
>
> Those NOT in beta are also NOT FREE.
>
> You might want to consider checking out Amazon's EC2 offering, though if
> you're having trouble getting Python to run, you might find EC2 to be too
> great a challenge ...
>
> --Andy Badera
>

> >http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html<http://www.catb.org/%7Eesr/faqs/smart-questions.html>

[Kannaiyan]

No assembly required.

This is what I was told when I see in the Google App Engine Page.

Looks like Software Assembly is Required to make anything to run :)
even to access Google Services using Googles Infrastructure.

/Kans

On Nov 3, 9:35 am, "Andrew Badera" <and...@badera.us> wrote:

> >http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html<http://www.catb.org/%7Eesr/faqs/smart-questions.html>

[Jon McAlister]

Hello Kannaiyan,

Thanks for your bug report. Looks like the issue has been properly
identified, and that it was the lack of importing the gdata module.
I'm sorry if this was frustrating for you to figure out on your own,
and am presently not sure how precisely we can make this easier for
the developer, especially since we do spell this out quite clearly in
the documentation: http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/gdata.html#configure

On future bug reports, please include a bit more technical detail.
It's hard for people to figure out the fix without knowing what the
actual problem is. Thanks Andrew and David for offering your time to
assist Kannaiyan.

And, as a closing thought, surely you can agree that we have launched
a better product than Google Gulp: http://www.google.com/googlegulp/

Jon

[Andrew Badera]

Personally I <3 ElasticFox and S3Fox ...

--Andy Badera

[Greg]

> I'm a software developer for more than 13 years.
> I'm just trying to develop simple spreadsheet update application.

> This is the worst service I felt from google.
> When you introduce new craps to market, please make it easier.

All that vitriol, and it turns out he forgot an include - how
embarrassing!

It sounds like he won't be back, but it's a good lesson for other
posters - assume it's your mistake unless you are very, very certain;
and don't let your frustrations out in the group unless you want a
very, very red face.

[Sal]

> > I'm a software developer for more than 13 years.
> > I'm just trying to develop simple spreadsheet update application.
> > This is the worst service I felt from google.
> > When you introduce new craps to market, please make it easier.
>
> All that vitriol, and it turns out he forgot an include - how
> embarrassing!
>

I'm just curiously wondering what kind of software development he's
been doing for 13 years. Anyway, my comments are: I've been a software
and web developer for less than 2 years and I have found GAE to be
pretty straight-forward, good documentation, and super fun. I love it.
I plan to purchase more hosting slots when they go on sale. Keep up
the good work GAE team.

[Kannaiyan]

http://1.latest.musugundan.appspot.com/

Works good now.

Google made me lazy thinking everything will work fine within Google
configuration. Ofcourse not.

Storing Data in Google Spreadsheets, Using Google App Engine to access
it. Do you think in general to include any external utils to access
those one?
As a software developer I would allow users to reuse the same code. I
won't make million copies of the same code. (If used by millions of
people). If Python does not allow such sharing model, then the
language is a total CRAP.

What if the gdata api has a bug and that is rectified ? You will
allow million downloads again and ask the users to copy to their
userspace? That is a TOTAL CRAP.

I hope you all understand my intention.

Anyway all in one answer it is BETA CRAP. Fine then.

/Kans

[David Symonds]

On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:42 PM, Kannaiyan <gbpn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I hope you all understand my intention.

Yes, it seems your intention is to cause trouble. Please go away.

Dave.

[Kannaiyan]

Jon:

Thanks for the response.

When you mean I can run some on Google Infrastructure means I have all
the utils included for using the Google services.
(This is what Google Provided me so far)
Not installing another module for using the service within Google
Infrastructure. Do you think it is still acceptable?

It may be a simple thing such as including to the app. But that does
make huge difference in wasting time for the developers.

Never worked with Python Guys. (Once I complete Python, Google will go
for Cobra :) )

Thanks for all your help.

/Kans

[Feris Thia]

Hi Kannaiyan,

This is not a productive discussions. If you feel not right with Google Apps, then it is not for you, ok ? Go with something else like Amazon EC2.

On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Kannaiyan <gbpn...@gmail.com> wrote:

Never worked with Python Guys. (Once I complete Python, Google will go
for Cobra :) )

Regards,

Feris

[Kannaiyan]

Feris:

Next time when I'm any Google Developer or Python Developer house for
lunch, I will go with my own plates. I doubt they will have their own
plates in their house. :)

I'm sure I entered into wrong time assuming Google development
environment will be friendly enough with less docs.
Looks like New comers need to run here and there to get their
application working.

This is to discuss problems we are facing and the users experience for
Google to understand. I hope I expressed the same.
I don't understand what you mean by Productive?

/Kans

On Nov 3, 11:56 pm, "Feris Thia" <fe...@phi-integration.com> wrote:
> Hi Kannaiyan,
> This is not a productive discussions. If you feel not right with Google
> Apps, then it is not for you, ok ? Go with something else like Amazon EC2.
>

[Sudhir Jonathan]

I'm not sure which language automatically loads all the possible
classes and modules when every line of code is run.... I've been
developing only a year or so, but a language that does that isn't
something I'd use. Maybe we should rewrite C# to load all the .NET
libraries automatically, and configure PHP to scan all the .php files
on the hard disk and include them. I'm sure every command would then
run without any further configuration :D

While we're at it why not load the whole internet for every search
query?

[Sudhir Jonathan]

Besides, app engine was obviously designed for us lesser mortals who
picked up python only two months ago and are happily writing code that
works really well, hosting it on a free platform that gives really
good response times and on an API that lets us do quite a lot, and
with a little creative pushing, anything we want.

Obviously, we're stupid.

Besides, its not fair that google is only providing a platform that
lets you build your ideas any way you want, experiment to your heart's
content, and charges you only long after your app has become
profitable. They ought to send people to cook my meals and clean my
room too.

BTW, @The AppEngine Team, can I get a Google plate for the undying
support I'm giving you guys? I might have people over for lunch :D

[Kannaiyan]

Sudhir:

Your understanding it wrong.

I'm not asking gdata to work without importing gdata to the
application.

The crappy work which we do we here is, everyone is downloading the
source and attaching to their own application.
Have you ever done anything on Gdata with AppEngine?

It is not just the statement "import gadata" alone. You also need to
include the source for it too.

/Kans

[Kannaiyan]

Don't think you are just given simply to enjoy the platform. That is
one side of it.

Google evaluates every user experience which in turns gives them a
business metrics to improve their business.
You are partly denoting your time for free to improve Google's
business whether you make any productive application or not.

/Kans

[Kannaiyan]

If you don't wish to listen you can go away.

I will explain my experience and the difficulties I faced around. If
you think that is troubling you, you need to stay away from this list.
I'm sure many more to come. Take care of your time.

Thanks.

/Kans

On Nov 3, 11:50 pm, "David Symonds" <dsymo...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Andrew Badera]

Welcome to the killfile.

Quit spamming the list with your whiny, wet, sandy manties-ness.

[Dan Sanderson]

On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:42 PM, Kannaiyan <gbpn...@gmail.com> wrote:

As a software developer I would allow users to reuse the same code. I
won't make million copies of the same code. (If used by millions of
people). If Python does not allow such sharing model, then the
language is a total CRAP.

Bundling a bunch of libraries with the runtime environment could be a bad idea in the long run.  For example, consider the case where version 1 of the runtime environment includes version 1.0 of module A and version 1.0 of module B, and you write an app that uses these modules.  Then later, App Engine releases version 2 of the runtime environment, which includes version 2.0 of module A and version 2.0 of module B.  Perhaps your app is incompatible with module A v2.0 and would take several weeks to port, but there's nothing in A v2.0 that you need so you'd prefer to just stay with A v1.0.  But you desperately need a feature in module B v2.0.

Thankfully, in Python it's easy to stay with version 1 of the runtime environment then add your own copy of B v2.0 to your app.  But you can imagine that with many modules and many versions, this could get extremely difficult to manage very quickly, and you'll soon be including all of your dependencies with your app.

Bundled libraries make it easy to get started, and it's a good suggestion for App Engine to include the gdata library with the runtime as a starting point.  Feel free to create an issue in the issue tracker for this.  But beyond getting started, you probably won't want to use bundled libraries.

-- Dan

[Peter Recore]

I must be a sucker for drama, because I'm still reading this thread.
And after all the insults, whining, and negativity, I think this Kans
guy has finally explained what his actual issue is. It sounds like he
wants the gdata libraries to be 'installed' as part of the python
environment our apps run in, just like django is 'pre installed' for
us.

Maybe now he'll go away, or at least stop being a jerk.

[Kannaiyan]

Dan Sanderson:

Thanks for the nice feedback and understanding.

We need to have a smart way of maintaining versions.
What if Google Upgrades the version of Python Intrepreter to a higher
version when the code is written for lower version?

We see Deprecated modules changing between higher versions.
You think we need to store our own Python binaries of that version to
keep it running?

I have a very basic question,

What happens if there is a bug (BETA) in GData module and the website
is not updated with that gdata update.

1. Do they have to shut the website down?
2. What if someone exploits of a known bug and misuse the poor website
infrastructure, why you make the user as a victim of such happenings.

If someone want to use higher version of the API, we need to come up
with a solution of Managing different versions.

like,

import gdata2

to use the extra facilities offered by gdata higher versions.

I'm not discussing about integrating a third party module.
It is their own services and accessing their own products, mounting
extra work to it in the user side in maintaining the version of the
code. What a service :)

/Kannaiyan

On Nov 4, 9:23 am, Dan Sanderson <dansander...@google.com> wrote:

[Kannaiyan]

Issue already added to the tracker list.

http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=208

> > -- Dan- Hide quoted text -

[Dan Sanderson]

On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 9:48 AM, Kannaiyan <gbpn...@gmail.com> wrote:

We need to have a smart way of maintaining versions.
What if Google Upgrades the version of Python Intrepreter to a higher
version when the code is written for lower version?

Runtime environments are versioned, and you control which version your app uses in the app.yaml configuration file.  Right now, there is only one version of the Python runtime: 1.  Changes made to an existing version of the runtime environment are intended to be backwards compatible.  If there is ever a non-backwards compatible change, it will be released in a new version of the runtime.  When a new version of the runtime is released, an app will continue to use the original version until the app owner changes the app.yaml file.

The biggest example of this would be upgrading Python itself.  Version 1 of the runtime uses Python 2.5.  If App Engine were to support a later version of Python, it would have to be in a later version of the runtime environment.  You wouldn't want the version of the Python language to change automatically.

Upgrading an app to a new runtime environment is likely to be non-trivial for everyone, so it's better if new non-backwards compatible versions are few and far between.  This is one of many reasons you don't want lots of libraries bundled with the runtime.  Consider that the runtime bundles Django 0.96; updating this to Django 1.0 would require a new version of the runtime.  I'd recommend to anyone wanting to use Django on App Engine to add Django 1.0 to their app instead of using the bundled 0.96 and waiting for a new version of the runtime.  Thankfully, this is easy to do.

 

What happens if there is a bug (BETA) in GData module and the website
is not updated with that gdata update.

It sounds like you're asking about what would happen if we bundled the GData library in the runtime, and a bug were discovered in the library.  In this case, if the bug fix is backwards compatible, the library would be upgraded in place with a minor release of the runtime environment, and all apps using that version of the runtime would see the fix automatically, just as with fixes in the API libraries.

-- Dan

[Kannaiyan]

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?DontRepeatYourself

This is nice to represent here. Hope you guys can understand.

On Nov 4, 11:33 am, Dan Sanderson <dansander...@google.com> wrote:

[Blessed Geek]

"May be there's a better way to do it" is a very annoying answer.
Perhaps, there is, but that was not the question asked.

Empathise with the asker, pardon him/her for expressing some
frustration and just say whether it can be done and otherwise provide
and alternative.
- Understand the question.
- Don't second guess the intent of the question.
- Refrain from reflecting our emotional attachment to the product.
- Just answer the question without further ado.
- If not possible, humbly confess that the product is not meant to
work the way the asker wants and then only suggest an alternative.

Very often, the asker is facing constraints that we, but not the
asker, have the liberty to avoid.