Advantages of GAE

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N. Rosencrantz

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Apr 23, 2011, 5:50:15 PM4/23/11
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Hi when reading the web2py manual I found they listed the advantages GAE has. These are mentioned like
  • Ease of deployment.
  • Scalability.
  • BigTable.
However I think that one large advantage is missing from this list namely the cost-effectiveness. Since we only pay for what we use otherwise expansive applications can get very cheap if they don't use a lot of bandwidth.

Do you agree? What do you think?

Cheers,
Nick Rosencrantz

Brandon Wirtz

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Apr 23, 2011, 6:31:23 PM4/23/11
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GAE is only cheap if you are small.  You know Google is Marking up the service.  If you are big enough all the peaks and valleys of traffic even out.  Cloud Solutions aren’t really trying to market to the types of users who even notice there is a free quota. 

 

So no, I don’t think it is missing.

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Robert Kluin

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Apr 23, 2011, 10:32:37 PM4/23/11
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On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 07:31, Brandon Wirtz <dra...@digerat.com> wrote:
> GAE is only cheap if you are small.  You know Google is Marking up the
> service.  If you are big enough all the peaks and valleys of traffic even
> out.

Depends on your traffic patterns. I've seen a lot of apps who's
trafic peaks are very large and valleys very deep. At least on App
Engine you're not paying for massive amounts of idle capacity in off
hours -- it is more like always operating at capacity but knowing
(well, hoping) there will be more resources if needed. As for
cost-effectiveness, for some apps it is great and for others less so.
As usual, it all depends...

Joops

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Apr 24, 2011, 5:37:18 AM4/24/11
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This could come under ease of deployment, but I think a big advantage
is
"Abstracts away infrastructure".

If I wanted to make a web application normally, I would need to
concern myself with patches for the OS and services, as well as
availability.

With PAAS, the provider deals with all of that, I only need to think
about the application I am writing.

J.
ps.. Amazons current 'excitement' shows how the cloud can fall out of
the sky and become more of a fog.



On Apr 24, 3:32 am, Robert Kluin <robert.kl...@gmail.com> wrote:

vlad

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Apr 24, 2011, 6:04:06 PM4/24/11
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Can you elaborate on "marking up" the service, pls? Did you mean GAE is planning to raise prices?

Brandon Wirtz

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Apr 24, 2011, 6:32:00 PM4/24/11
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No,  Services are sold at a profit, at some point you become large enough that you are better to own your own stuff.

 

This example won’t be “perfect” but think of it like this.

 

If you made the world’s comfiest chair, you start a web site, and you ship via Fed-Ex.  You grow, and soon stores want to carry your chair, so you go from Fedex to an outsourced Distribution center like Navis.  Soon Target wants to carry your stuff, so you buy  a Plane, and some semis and ship directly to big clients with your fleet of trucks. 

 

You go from “Managed” to “dedicated” to “Self” hosting your logistics.  Because at each stage of the game what is “cheapest” is based on your capacity and the mark up of the solution.

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N. Rosencrantz

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Apr 25, 2011, 1:42:25 AM4/25/11
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Thank you Robert for putting it very well said: "on AppEngine you're not paying for massive amounts of idle capacity" This is what a mean with cost-effectiveness. When all you pay for is outgoing bandwidth and storage you can for instance make just an indexing service extremely cheap with almost no capital and almost only labor intensive. Our work now is labor-intensive instead of capital-intensive exactly as Robert states below: "Knowing well hoping that more is needed" interestingly stating a law which is exactly the opposite of mechanics: The more you load our network the more successful it will get. Contrary to a mechanical car which will get less efficient the more you load it.
Thanks
Niklas

nickmilon

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Apr 25, 2011, 3:37:31 PM4/25/11
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One major advantage of GAE it is that is more green than alternatives.
Charging by resource usage (cpu cycles, bandwidth etc) forces us to
energy efficient programming style.
Also I am sure G datacenters are much more efficient than someone's
LAMP stack.

Nick

Warwick Allison

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Apr 25, 2011, 6:02:20 PM4/25/11
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> You go from "Managed" to "dedicated" to "Self" hosting your logistics.
> Because at each stage of the game what is "cheapest" is based on your
> capacity and the mark up of the solution.

Just never forget the concept of core competence. It may be that
forever you are better to put your energies into developing ever-
better chairs than to get distracted with logistics.

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Warwick

N. Rosencrantz

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Apr 26, 2011, 2:09:21 AM4/26/11
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> --
In fact I've started to develop a chair with embedded computing,
sketched it and spoke with the carpenter about it. The idea is to
build in a computer in the chair so that you get something like a very
comfortable control center.
Regards,
Niklas

Brandon Donnelson

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Apr 26, 2011, 9:29:02 AM4/26/11
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I'm curious, do you have experience with this? I've been envolved with a couple larger projects and with electricity, air conditioning/chilling, facility cost, engineers to maintain, security, multi ISP costs, app engine beats setting up something on your own. Maybe your comparing to other clouds? But maybe I haven't seen everything, so thats why I am curious if you have some better info?

Brandon Donnelson

Brandon Donnelson

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Apr 26, 2011, 9:31:08 AM4/26/11
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I agree cost effectiveness for small and large scale apps is a big plus for app engine compared to the cost of hosting on your own or another cloud provider. 

Brandon Donnelson

N. Rosencrantz

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Apr 26, 2011, 10:15:03 AM4/26/11
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-- 

I've experience with dedicated servers and virtual dedicateds from providers like data centers and godaddy. You can get a very fast response from a dedicated physical server but for large and very large data sets I think GAE is the benchmark winner. I have no experience with other cloud providers.  
Cheers,
Niklas

Darien Caldwell

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Apr 26, 2011, 11:48:02 AM4/26/11
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On Apr 25, 12:37 pm, nickmilon <nickmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> One major advantage of GAE it is that is more green than alternatives.
> Charging by resource usage (cpu cycles, bandwidth etc) forces us to
> energy efficient programming style.
> Also I am sure G datacenters are much more efficient than someone's
> LAMP stack.

The Mercury News just recently had an article about this:

http://www.mercurynews.com/green-energy/ci_17900411

Some of Google's datacenters are very 'green'. Some are not. In some
locales there's just no alternatives to be had. But it's good to see
an Industry Wide attempt to make datacenters greener, at any rate.
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